S02.E07: eps2.5_h4ndshake.sme

[Cardie]

Elliot's symptoms come in many different types, so it's hard to know which sort of hallucination is operating with which illusory setting or event. He sees Mr. Robot as a separate person, someone whom he can interact with as well as he can Krista or Darlene. Even knowing what Mr. Robot is doesn't stop him from experiencing him that way. At other times Mr. Robot takes him over completely and his Elliot persona is blocked from knowing what Mr. Robot is saying, experiencing and doing. Then there's another class of delusion, when he transforms the real world in which he consciously moves into some system of equivalencies, such as everyone calling E-Corp Evil-Corp or prison being his mom's house and neighborhood environs. In other words, he has an Elliot-filter that changes details but doesn't involve people or events that are imaginary. They happen, just not in the way he sees them happening. Finally, Elliot has very vivid waking dreams, such as what happens when he goes through withdrawal. I'd class the sitcom hallucination as one of these too, as well as his vision of everything being all sweetness and light and everyone his friend and them all dining happily together.  I took the call from Tyrell and the concrete and vomit scenes as these sorts of dream-like hallucinations. As for Mr. Robot shooting him, that was simply part of his internal struggle and he wore the bandage as its outward manifestation. He has been playing chess with Ray but that doesn't necessarily mean that the match with Mr. Robot is actually him playing chess with himself (unlike in Fight Club, where the narrator does punch and otherwise injure himself, all the while imagining that Tyler Durden is his assailant.)

Even with all these delusions, it's important to note that the only totally imaginary person he sees is Mr. Robot--and even he is the image of a real person, his dead father. Also Elliot himself seems to be getting better at recognizing his hallucinations for what they are. He just isn't letting us, his friend, in on it because we weren't straight to him about the Mr. Robot thing.

[AliShibaz]

I wonder if the chess games may be symbolic of some other kind of struggle going on between Elliot and Ray. If so, the question then may become, "Who or what does Ray represent to Elliot and in which of Elliot's views of reality"?

If Ray is the prison warden (as some people have suggested), then maybe their chess games can be interpreted as the struggle that exists between the warden wanting to keep Elliot in prison and White Rose wanting to get Elliot out of prison. More likely, the chess games may represent the struggle between one or more hackers trying to defeat a system's security and the system security staff's attempt to protect the security of their system and defeat anyone attempting to hack into their system. I wonder. Hmmmmm.

But if Ray represents some other character or barrier, then perhaps the chess games might represent some different kinds of struggle(s).  I wonder if it might be interesting to create a record of all their chess games and record who won each game and see if the games could be compared to anything else going on in  Elliot's life to see if there is some kind of hidden meaning about the games that could yield some clues to the reveal.

It will probably take a lot of effort to create such a record and the odds that it will pay off must be pretty low. Still, if I can find the time, I just may try to do that to see if it might reveal any insights.

Edited August 22, 2016 by AliShibaz

[AliShibaz]

Further to the issue of: "Is Ray the prison warden"?

If we can accept that most incidents we witnessed actually happened and only the clothes that people wore and the actual settings changed between the version we saw and the "real version" (or possible the version shown in the reveal), then I would guess the incident where one player threw or passed the B-Ball and it rolled out of bounds was real. Remember? The player shouted at Leon in a rude way telling him to get the ball and throw it to him. Leon refused and instead picked it up and threw it away. Then Ray went and got the ball and gave it to the original player/convict and tried to make peace by saying words to the effect, "We're all here to have a good time."

Well, if we can accept that incident really happened, then it is extremely doubtful that Ray is actually the prison warden because no prison warden would ever behave that way. So Ray may well be just another inmate but a very powerful inmate. Perhaps he is the head inmate or "shot caller" and one of the reasons he has so much power is because he created this web site and made a lot of money before the big hack. I'm putting this forward because Ray never seemed like a prison warden to me.

Edited August 22, 2016 by AliShibaz

[xaxat]

9 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

I wonder if the chess games may be symbolic of some other kind of struggle going on between Elliot and Ray. If so, the question then may become, "Who or what does Ray represent to Elliot and in which of Elliot's views of reality"?

Did any chess players watch? I was wondering if it was possible to tell how accomplished Elliot and Ray are from what we saw. Are they amateurs or more talented than that?

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

I'm putting this forward because Ray never seemed like a prison warden to me.

The middle ground here is that Ray is one of the guards, a corrupt one to be sure. We do get scenes not through Elliot's perspective when he seems to have a house and move outside the prison. But that's not definitive proof.

[Cosmosgravitation]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Did any chess players watch? I was wondering if it was possible to tell how accomplished Elliot and Ray are from what we saw. Are they amateurs or more talented than that?

Someone on reddit made a chess pastebin with all their moves.  There is some analysis in the thread.

[xaxat]

Thanks. From that redditor's analysis,

Quote

Ray resigns. Nh3# is threatened. Ray can delay by sacrificing his queen. . . He's surrounded.

They really do pay attention to the details on this show.

[AliShibaz]

Several people who have posted in multiple threads (covering multiple episodes) in this show have made the point that Portia Doubleday portrays Angela in a way that can be described as "one note" or a "one trick pony".

Something always bothered me about that and today I was re-watching S02E05. Anyone who feels the way I described in my previous sentence should look at that episode. About ten minutes from the end there is a scene between Angela and Phillip Price (the CEO of Evil Corp). It appears as if that scene takes place in some underground garage or abandoned subway tunnel. Anyway, Angela comes across as a real powerhouse. She appears to be on the same footing as Price.

She most definitely does not play that scene with only a single note.

Edited August 24, 2016 by AliShibaz

[AliShibaz]

Heading into the next episode following the reveal, I just want to point out that when Elliot said, "I will not hide anything from you again in the future", (or words to that effect), we should take his promise with a grain of salt.

Just remember all the promises he has made (like his promise to use less morphine to Shayla) he has made and broken and my guess is that what he promises may have been for effect more so than the truth. I would not rely on any promises made by Elliot.

[shapeshifter]

I wonder if Angela's deer-in-headlights stares are supposed to be slow-motion while her internal dialog is processing her next move/words. If so, I would guess the director would have a say in the acting choice.

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

If so, I would guess the director would have a say in the acting choice.

Directors always have a say in an acting choice, unless the actor is so big a star as to have more clout than the director. If an actor plays a scene a certain way, I always figure that it's at least possible that the director said "Play it that certain way."

[Misstify]

On 8/21/2016 at 6:10 PM, Giant Misfit said:

And I'm constantly distracted by the World's Largest Dollar-Store False Eyelashes they're making her wear this season.

During season one, I was distracted by the eye-makeup of both Darlene and Angela.  Eventually I realized that Darlene's copious eyeliner was perhaps an effort to make her eyes resemble Elliot's eyes a bit, hinting that they are related.  I feel like there must be some reason for Angela's very fake eyelashes as well.  I don't know what it is.  In this episode, I felt like Angela's face was being made to look like a creepy doll's head, when the screen was filled with Angela's pale, round face with almost no hair visible.

[wthree]

Ray is extremely confusing.

 

When he admits he's lost, he says something to the effect of "you better leave", does anyone have the exact line?

 

Also in an earlier episode (ep 3 I believe) when he comes to sit down the Elliot in the 'diner' to tell him they are similar, he enters via what appears to be a fire exit. This makes me thinks he is very likely prison staff, maybe not a guard though.

[Ottis]

I have thought Elliot was in an asylum or halfway house all season, so jail wasn't a surprise. Not sure what the bitcoins stood for... Just dollars or cigarettes? 

[Misstify]

Also: I am not a crackpot, but I thought the shrimp cocktail at a work meeting was a bit of a Seinfeld shout-out.  "The jerk store called..."

(Not to say that the shrimp cocktail, and its timing, doesn't also have other meanings within the story.  But I'm sure Leon would agree with me).

[Milaxx]

On 9/2/2016 at 8:55 AM, Misstify said:

Also: I am not a crackpot, but I thought the shrimp cocktail at a work meeting was a bit of a Seinfeld shout-out.  "The jerk store called..."

(Not to say that the shrimp cocktail, and its timing, doesn't also have other meanings within the story.  But I'm sure Leon would agree with me).

That's what the board members were eating when they decided to try and cover up the Washington Township issue that ultimately killed her mother and Elliot's dad. It was a message that they were aware of what she was trying to do.

[kat165]

Good catch, Milaxx. Do you watch the eps several times? You always pick up on these small things many of us miss. Thanks.

[Milaxx]

14 minutes ago, kat165 said:

Good catch, Milaxx. Do you watch the eps several times? You always pick up on these small things many of us miss. Thanks.

I watch at least twice. I live tweet on twitter but then rewatch the next day to pick up things I missed. After last week's ep I went back and rewatched season 1 because I felt there were little clues I missed. I DVR the eps so this week I just jumped around checking things I wasn't clear on. I also watch The Verge after show. I recognized Joanna's lipstick because I love makeup and have that color.

[kat165]

I love that you get so much out of the show, Milaxx. And always share your findings with us. Thank you.

And thanks for that link. I'm going to see if I'm able to watch any vids on it. My pc is old & has a hard time loading stuff. This site looks so interesting.

[Milaxx]

I can't recall if it this ep or the next but when Angela comes home Darlene is sitting on her couch and copies a file to a thumb drive and slips it in her back pocket. Now I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop on what it was Darlene swiped off Angel's computer.

[kat165]

I don't remember that, Milaxx, but thanks I'll watch for it - to see if they ever address that thumbdrive again.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 8/18/2016 at 1:03 AM, green said:

I'm really finding the character of Angela not too believable.  Is she playing E Corp or are they playing her?  Probably both but she is in over her head.  And yes she seems to have actually fallen to believe that rubbish that they value her given that scene with her father.  But the thing that bugs me the most is her long silent pauses complete with Elliot-like vacant stare which look out of character for her, well, "character."  Elliot, yes.  He is the consummate geek and batsh*t crazy besides.  But she isn't so to do the Elliot vacant stare bit for seconds on end just doesn't feel a right acting choice and it pulls me out of the show every time I see that posturing. 

I agree, and that's one reason her character drives me nuts. Bad actress, bad writing, or both? It makes me want to just automatically skip over any scene with Angela. Usually nothing important happens in her scenes anyway.

 

On 8/18/2016 at 0:05 PM, Avaleigh said:

He sends everyone else away, he makes a comment about how she must have sucked somebody's cock to be where she currently is, and says that Price has given him permission to treat her however he likes. Then she has a big plate of shrimp cocktail shoved in her face. Subtle that shit was not.

And yet Angela won't quit the job, she'll just take whatever bad treatment they give her, with a totally blank look on her face.

 

On 8/19/2016 at 5:55 AM, AliShibaz said:

I was very struck with the scene where some woman splashes red paint on Joanna.

They showed a closeup of her mouth as she screamed something (probably "Help"?). I was struck by the look of her mouth and teeth. I have to wonder if they somehow enhanced that shot. I don't think it's likely they used some kind of computer enhancement. But her teeth were so exteme looking that I feel like calling her "Jaws" from now on. She looked like some kind of monster.

I remember seeing some images of horrible fish creatures that live in the depths of the oceans and it seems as if most of their bodies consisted of huge elongated teeth. I'm not trying to be funny or to insult the actress. But, Holey Moley! I have never before seen teeth that appear so extreme. I suppose it has to be in my imagination. But I would love to know what was in the mind of the show runner when he decided to show her mouth and teeth for an extra long amount of time and accompany that shot with silence. We can't really know for certain just what it is she is screaming. But the look on her face and the look of her teeth tie in with her murderous personality and to my mind, they mark her as a horribly cruel predator and tie her Sado-Masochistic sexual behavior together with her murders.

All I'm trying to say is that brief scene was chilling. Absolutely chilling! I think the cinematographer did a beautiful job on that scene. I'll never forget that look! As long as I live, that scene will figure prominently in my nightmares.

It was very chilling for some reason. Her mouth looked huge. And of course, it was an homage to the film "Carrie."

 

On 8/19/2016 at 5:13 PM, Cardie said:

Here are some probability trees I've worked out regarding Tyrell, whom I really can't stand yet am endlessly intrigued by:

1. Tyrell is just who he seems to be, a sociopath with delusions of grandeur who revels in greed, ambition and inflicting pain. He glommed on to what Elliot was doing and wanted to ally with him when his E-Corp world came crashing down (and the police wanted him for murder.) Either Elliot subsequently killed him or he and Mr. Robot colluded during those three days to make Tyrell the face of the hack and worked out an escape plan for Tyrell. Problems with this idea: his wife seems to have some serious muscle behind her that a fugitive would be unlikely to summon up. Or, if he's dead, who is sending Mrs. W. those envelopes?

2. Tyrell, though a sociopath, is also an agent of the Dark Army, chosen to infiltrate E-Corp, keep tabs on Elliot, ensure fsociety's success with the hack, and take the fall for the hack. Whiterose has the clout to keep Tyrell hidden, his family protected, and to finance expensive baby rattles. Problem: why is Mrs. W. hurting for cash? Nevertheless, this explanation for me makes more sense than my others.

3. Tyrell is an alter of Elliot's. Problems are too numerous to mention and I'd add that it seems unlikely that Esmail would make his essentially sympathetic protagonist the murderer of an innocent woman. But from the very first the way Tyrell has interacted with Elliot has seemed off. People with DID often have a bad personality who acts out, although I don't know if that ever goes so far as murder. Mr. Robot has interacted with Tyrell when Elliot is "asleep." Did that protector personality decide that the Tyrell alter was too destructive to remain a part of themselves and repress him? Or did Tyrell and Mr. Robot set up the scheme in my first para. to the extent that it could operate once Elliot was imprisoned. I know that the logic problems of this being the case are massive but, as I've said before, I can't totally rule it out.

I like theory #2. But I think it's more likely to be theory #1. And #3, to me, seems impossible.

[KaleyFirefly]

I liked the prison reveal. I never believed he was at his mother's house; I thought he was in a rehab for drug addicts or a mental institution. Darlene didn't react like her mother was there. And the church group looked like a bunch of people who definitely did not want to be there, but were mandated to be there.

There was also a scene in one episode (I'm binge-watching, so I forget which one) where we see Darlene in bed crying for no apparent reason, then she wipes away her tears to go out and give instructions to her F-society members. Maybe she was crying because she found out that her brother is in prison.

I thought Ray might have been a social worker or psychologist working in the prison. I doubt that a warden would spend time sitting in the prison yard / basketball court chatting with prisoners.

I loved how Leon saved Elliot, and that he was sent by White Rose. I agree with whoever said that maybe Ray gave up so easily not so much because of his conscience, but because he'd been threatened by White Rose through Leon, and everyone who knows White Rose and the Dark Army, knows they are not to be messed with.