S06.E10: The Winds Of Winter

[Meredith Quill]

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Episode Synopsis:

TBA

[90PercentGravity]

I wish they had declared Sansa Queen of the North so that there could be a battle of the four queens. 

[Fisher King]

I think that will happen next season, 90PercentGravity.

I'm really REALLY disappointed that Margaery Tyrell didn't make it. Olenna's revenge will be sweet.

Loved Tyrion & Dani's back 'n' forth & especially her naming him Hand to the Queen. They have mad chemistry.

And we got to see all the remaining Starks in one episode, I think.

All in all, I thought it was very fine season ender.

[Pallas]

Thrilling. I've seen it twice and watched the final three scenes twice more. Hail to you brethren -- Llywela, Choc Butterfly and gingerella in last week's thread -- who foresaw the wildfire put to use by Cersei to get out of jury duty. That was spectacular, and I loved the slow pacing of the build-up, especially Lancel's terrible last crawl to futility. Cersei may have outdone Tywin/Bolton/Frey in this, taking out not only all the Sparrows and three of four Tyrells, but two members of her own House, too. The Green Trial.

Hail to WhiteStumbler, so that we looked for and "Yes!"ed with him, at the return of the Stark sigil on the Winterfell model in the opening credits.

Tommen's suicide, and Cersei's arid dismissal of the body beneath the golden shroud. (The witch's prophecy.)  

Arya finally makes it inside the hall at the Twins, and gets souvenirs. That leaves only Cersei and the Mountain on her short list.

Lady Lyanna Mormont is the greatest tweener who ever lived. "And you, like, refused the call..."

Cersei has no use for Jaime, and he saw it at her coronation from his place of honor standing room in Siberia, with the Mountain attending her and Qyborn now Hand and Grand Anti-Maester. Jaime was already sickened by Frey's jolly solidarity in kingslaying, the world's sniggering and the sending of regards. Now he's returned from an ignoble victory to find his sister burned them all then took the crown from their child, the suicide. Jaime's catching a chill from the rains of Castermere.  

At the two coronations: Jaime's staredown with Cersei, and Sansa's with Littlefinger. I loved how the triumphant main theme playing under Jon's gained a dark strain when Littlefinger caught her eye.

But here's news: Littlefinger actually confessed to Sansa his ambition to be king. Maybe his need for a (Tully) woman's recognition really is his weak spot, as Varys implied long ago and Anothermi proposed last week. 

There was also something about Lyanna and a baby and a promise...But we'll speak about Jon's mother when next we meet.

[Anothermi]

Gah! We made it to the end of a season without being smacked in the face. Have we all become Reeks? <it made sense when I first wrote it but I don't remember why anymore. *o.0*>

So many satisfying follow ups:

We know that Jon Snow is Lyanna's child – Yay! for us, and all who thought the same. This spitball has been waiting to land since Season 1! Still they held something back – or at least I couldn't make it out. There may still be some mystery about who Jon Snow's father really is. Could anyone else make out what Lyanna whispered to young!Ned? It sure looks like it is Rhaegar, because he's the one who assigned his best King's Guard to protect her. Still, I don't trust when we aren't told loud and clear by the show.

Arya! That girl found Littlefinger's Tardis. I was thinking she might end up with the women warriers in Dorne (as a way to book-end the season) but One-Down-Two-to-Go is so much more satisfying. Did she steal a bunch of faces or just that one? I kind of think that may have been the face resting where she put A Bitch's face, so now it's hers. A face for a face.

I am also thrilled at her method of dispatching Walder. Harkened back to S03E10 Mysha – the Rat Cook story Bran told in the abandoned Night's Watch Fort. Bran's story ended with him saying that the Gods (or Arya) will punish those who “kill a guest beneath his roof. That is something the Gods cannot forgive.” The cook was turned into a giant white rat who could only eat his young. Frey was killed outright, but I think his young will end up devouring themselves. I think Arya can NOW be deemed a bona fide Faceless Woman. <hat's off to her>

Cersei's “rumour” is either that there was still wildfire in the tunnels – and KUDOs to those who foresaw the meaning for the wildfire in Bran's vision – or perhaps that Olenna had gone to Dorne? She specifically had Qyburn send 'little birds' there. I also can't help but feel that, although Cersei prevented Tommen from going to the Sept, she wasn't surprised that he killed himself due to what she did to Margaery. Looks like Marg wasn't the only one who wanted to be The Queen. Jaime did NOT look pleased.

She looks very like Maleficent now. At least the new GoT royalty will be better dressed than the old (male) GoT royalty.

Sansa has surpassed her mother. She's been learning her lessons. Yay for giving LF the brush off and yay for noticing him plotting in his corner as the North declared another King-in-the-North! <Not betting on Jon's chances of making it to the end of the saga with that call back, but yay! For Lady Mormont shaming the other bannermen.>

Melissandre lucked out. At least Davos' new leader is as doggedly pragmatic as himself (and Stannis). I can see him understanding why Jon could not order her killed. Now I'm thinking she is the one who will meet up with the Brothers without priestesses.

Benjen. Sheesh. They sure use him sparingly. <sadface> Interesting info dump about ancient spells being carved into the foundations of the Wall. Strong magic to keep men safe from what lays beyond the wall. “As long as it stands, the dead cannot pass.” OK then, I'm on the lookout for the walls to come tumbling down in future. But how? Wildfire? Dragon fire? What kills zombonis could also be what allows them out of their “prison”? One last thing... that look he gave Meera and Bran after he wished them good fortune looked... less than friendly... to me. It was un-nerving. Not sure what to make of it.

Varys. So he was off to Dorne! What does he know? Dorne didn't get attacked by Dany's ancestors the way the rest of Westeros did. As mentioned before, the Dornish must have made an alliance. Will this be a bit of “lather, rinse, repeat” as Gingerella suggests? Given how fast he got to Dorne and back is Meereen not that far from South Westeros?

Tyrion! Once again Hand, but this time on his own steam! And Hand of the Queen! Yikes. Hand-of-the-AnyOne seems to be a death sentence.

And last but not least...

                                    ----------------------- !WINTER. HAS. COME! --------------------

                                            <delivered by a WHITE ravengram – a White Flyer?>

 

ETA: Another like or two to your post Pallas, as the limit of 1 is not enough to show how much I loved it. Speak about it when next we meet, indeed! We shall.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Anothermi
clarify

[gingerella]

Holy shit, man, that was THEBESTSEASONFINALEEVER!!!! Okay, I need to try to conpose myself so I can speak...(use your words gingerella...).

Lets fast forward to the feast scene at Winterfell, where during Little Lady MoFo's speech I started tearing up, that entire scene had me eyes leaking saltwater. We have been waiting 5.5 seasons for the Starks to take back their rightful please as leaders of the North, and it felt sooooo gooood!  A Viewer has mad love for the Little Lady, as if it could have grown more after last week! The way she shamed those weak ass Lords was magical. M.A.G.I.C.A.L.

That entire final sequence - from the feast at Winterfell, through Cersei's crowning, to the great fleet of the Mother of Dragons slicing through the seas en route to Destiny...that was one of the most masterfully scripted, shot and edited pieces of television I have ever scene.  It made me feel the way that first scene did in the opening of S01:E01, when they ride through the tunnel and out the North side of the Wall, remember that scene? This entire closing sequence gave me the same feeling, and I remembered why I stick it out even in seasons that have sucked hard and made A Viewer want to quit their watch.

Annnyway, I digress...I think we should all give ourselves a mug o grog and cheers to how on the money we Unsullied have been this season. Amongst us, we said that Arya would kill Walder Frey wearing a faceless mask, which was awesome! I totally didn't get what was happening until she reached for her face. I thought that woman was trying to make him go mad and was working for Jamie, who seemed like he was ready to off the old geezer himself. I guess Arya knows how to get faces, I just wonder if she had to kill someone to get that face, or if she stole it from the House of B&W.  I really thought we would only see her leaving Braavos but when Braavos was not in the opening credits I figured she had gotten away.  So now Arya is closer to Winterfell than we could have imagined, I hope she gets the quickly.

Seeing the Citadel felt like the first time I saw a Harry Potter movie. Thr great library was amazing but...it made me feel anxious because it is so vast and there isn't enough time for Sam to study what he needs to learn to help Jon hold the Wall and save the North and Westeros in general from the WW and the Army of the Dead. But it was a great set and I loved that Sam and Gilly made it there.

The whole flaming pig shit in the Sept was quite the scene, wasn't it? I didn't really get where it was all going, I mean, I thought they would burn the entire city down, so it was surprising to me that it only exploded though the Great Sept. I was sort of shocked that we lost Margery, I really thought she was going to be around for a while, but honestly? By the end of the episode I was like, Margery who?!? I gotta say, I did not think ol Tommen had it in him to off himself but I guess when your mother is such an evil piece of work, you know she will probably kill you too. I just didn't get how he happened to be in his room still. I mean, didn't someone keep coming to tell him to leave? So he could have been in the Sept too, couldn't he?  and it was a damn shame that Lorace confessed and had his forehead etched and to died a second later, poor timing dude. 

The Septa, I don't wanna talk about that okay?  But it seemed like Cersei was not expecting Tommen to die, right? She seemed surprised. The whole little birds killing Pycel, well, he had it coming but I am surprised he lived as long as he has, to be honest.That whole scene was creepy as shit. And how did that little bird know to lure Lancel into pig shit alley? Seemed weird to me and rather random.

The whole LF confesses his love to Sansa and wants to sit on the Iron Throne was another one we called, but I was glad to see Sansa walk away from his stupid lying ass. He was wrong about the North not following a bastard Stark and anyway, he is half Stark regardless of whether it's his mother or father who is a Stark, though again kudos to us for calling Jon's parents (boo yah!). But now that LF sees how valuable Jon is for the North, will he try to kill Jon, or let him live? Dude is a snake, and I don't trust him. That said, at this point in the Game, I think Jon could kill LF and we would be okay, he has served his purpose to me. I just don't see him being useful for what's to come, only a shit stirrer as he has always been.

Totally dug Dany telling Dario he has to stay in Merren because he and his magical dick cannot distract her from her mission, ha!  And I loved even more, Tyrion waiting for her to debrief. The whole scene of him professing his fealty to her, and her making him her Hand, was just so...excellent! it was a delicious reward for A Viewer, amongst a smorgasbord of delights tonight! And then there was the scene of the ships sailing off to Casterly Rock, that was amazing. When the music, which was perfect, swelled as the camera panned across th dragon bow of that first ship? Goosebumps! And I loved seeing ships of Iron Born, amoral crazy bastards. Ships of Dothrakis and their horses, rapers and pillagers. Ships of Unsullied, with their militaristic precision. And...dragoons! Now that's how a badass bitch goes to war, yo!

Oh, and to see Olenna in Dorne?! And then Varys to boot?! I think that Varys has set up a scenario for KL where they get attacked from two sides, from Dorne and from Casterly rock side, or whatever that side is. I think If yo are looking at the sea in KL, Dorne is to the left and CR is to the right, yes?

Overall, lots of pieces moved forward in big leaps, and Season 6 is the Power Girls all the way! Let's lay out the super chick playas, shall we?

1. Ellaria and Olenna make revenge plans. 

2. Arya kills Walder Frey and makes mincemeat out of his two eldest idiot sons, literally!

3. Cersei finally gets her own Barbie crown, stag edition.

4. Gilly gets Sam to the Citadel (I think he needed her to get there).

5. Dany, Yara & Misandei cross the Narrow Sea to conquer Westeros.

6. Lady Lyanna Mormont brings the big boys to their knees, literally, in a King Jon of the North love in.

7. Sansa finally walks away from LF, and I hope it won't biter her in the ass because let's face it, he owed her that Knights of the Vale save for selling her to Ramsay.

When you lay it all out like that, clearly our spitballs about the ladies taking charge seems to be coming to fruition, with only really Cersei being totally evil.  

Now I want another 6 seasons if it's going to be getting this good again! Who's with me?!?

Edited June 27, 2016 by gingerella

[abcfsk]

Whew!

I usually leave the speculation to sharper spitballers and I have to say you guys have been doing a pretty sharp job of it this season. And way back to the stuff in S1 we finally got answered this year. 

I agree with Fisher King - I was sad to see Maergery go, she was a schemer of the satisfying kind - but there was some solace in seeing her die not of her own incompetence, or because she didn't see what was coming, but because the bloody High Sparrow wasn't all that clever after all and let her down even as she was using him. Men, right? 

I found myself pondering who the people watching Cersei's crowning were. The nameless crowd. Who's left in that royal circle? Smart buggers who stay in the background, probably. Sharp suit on Cersei, by the way. 

Speaking of which, how big is the Lannister army now? 

Anothermi, I think Varys has unlocked the secret to between-episodes fast travel. 

gingerella nails those magical moments of awe. Let's see if it's not the only 'totally evil' power girl who wins in the end, though. If A Show really wants to have the last laugh. 

I'm NOT comfortable that Sansa will stay away from Littlefinger and Littlefinger will stay away from Sansa. His tongue is still wormy. 

[ChocButterfly]

That was AWSOME!!!!!!

I'm surprised many of my predicitions happened: Varys aligning Danarys with Dorne, Cersei setting up the Pigshit, and of course, Jon being Reaghar and Lyanna's son. Well, I'm not sure why I'm that surprised, it all makes sense. Although I thought Cersei would burn the entire city. So, she's not that crazy, good for her. I was very sad to see Margeary and Loras go, all because of that stupid Sparrow, argh!!! I hate him!! I hate him even more for making me root for Cersei for a bit. Gosh, I even wanted SHAME!! Septa to suffer. What this show does to us, sighs.

Didn't see coming: Tommen killing himself. I mean, the moment he took his crown off, yeah, I knew he was going to jump, but before that I didn't imagine he'd have that reaction. Another surprised reaction for me: Cersei's whole coldness about it. She literally didn't care. So she knew he was going to die sooner or later, but damn, woman!! You cried a river for fucking Joffrey and you cannot share a tear for poor little Tommen?! Oh well, good riddance, he was too stupid to live in this world.

Didn't see coming until the last minute: Arya's face changing. I mean, the whole party had an eerie air, reminded me of the Red Wedding. I was expecting some horrible masacre to happen at any minute. But I didn't know the girl eyeing Jaimie was Arya. I didn't know she could change faces on her own. I didn't know she could travel all the way from Bravos to Riverland in half an episode when it took Sam an entire season to get to the Citadel. And I didn't know wearing someone's face also made you taller. But, ignoring the technicalities, that whole thing was AWSOME!! She made him eat his children!! HAHAHAHA!!!

I liked it that when everyone was declaring Jon King in the North, Sansa was genuinely smiling and happy about it. I thought for a moment she'd be bitter and would consider Jon a threat. So maybe she hasn't turned into an evil power hungry schemer. There's hope for her. The ominous look to Littlefinger was worrying though. That man is too dangerous and he won't just stand there and be rejected again by another Tully.

Uncle Benjen is kind of an ass. So yeah, he saved Bran and all, but then he leaves them in the middle of nothing without the horse??! How are they suposed to cross the Wall? Meera cannot carry Bran, he's bigger than her! So basically he left them to die. You could have gotten another horse, Uncle Benjen! Plus, you can use your own legs to walk and you're already dead! Don't be a jerk, leave the kids the horse!! Asshole.

Finally, there's hope for Dany. She was very level headed, talking about allainces and not about burning her enemies, blah, blah, blah. She made Tyrion her Hand. She left part of her army at Mereen, so she didn't abandoned them to their luck. And she said the people could elect their own rulers there, how democratic of her!! This Dany could be a great ruler! There was something I didn't understand though. She told Darioh the Dothraki wouldn't come with her, but then I saw a ship with Dothrakis. I thought it'd be great she left the Dothraki, because let's face it, they'd be more dangerous in Westeron than the WW, but she didn't leave them.

[DirewolfPup]

My poor poor Margaery.. one of my favorite characters. I named my cat after her. I, for one, will miss her dearly. I take a little comfort in knowing that even if she ran for it and wasn't stopped, she'd still likely be dead. The explosion hit most of the surrounding area, too. Ugh. Why would the sparrow force the people to stay? Idiot. Glad he's dead.

That Sept explosion killed all of the major sparrows, 3/4 of the Tyrells, 2 Lannisters, and hosts of other noble families.  Now, a lot of Cersei's more subtle behavior changes made more sense. She was fine with Olenna insulting her. Cersei got the ultimate revenge. Killing her whole family and letting her watch the complete dismantling of her house slowly until the day she dies. Also, when Cersei let, nay encouraged, Jamie to fight in the Riverlands. She wanted him out of the city. What I can't figure out is if Cersei gave up on Tommen or not. Tommen was team Margaery and Sparrow. Willing to let her suffer the consequences of her trial. Revoking trial by combat. She put very minimal effort in to make sure he wasn't there. She also didn't seem surprised that he killed himself or was dead at all.

Congratulations to Arya for killing all of the Freys. Good show, ol' girl!!  When she had the face on, she was giving googly eyes to Jamie. What was that all about? Plotting to kill his girlfriend maybe. Or she may kill them both. Interesting.

(Brief rant: So it looks as though Littlefinger released the patent for his teleporter. Arya just pinged to Westeros. Not only Westeros, but the riverlands which are on the west side of Westeros. Just. Great.  Also, Varys. Jumped to Dorne and back in what seemed like 3 days to a week. Wonderful continuity show....[slow claps])

I'm not sure there's much that Dorne and Olenna can do to screw up Cersei more. She has zero allies. Exactly zero. The Frey's are murdered. The Boltons are murdered. The Tyrells are murdered. Just who in this universe is on her side. I may say Littlefinger, but he would never back a loosing team. Cersei is the prime example of a ruler sitting on that throne of swords. Don't get comfortable Cersei, you are going to get stabbed from 4 different directions.

Sansa is proving to be exactly who I always hoped she would be. Her dismissal of LF but not out-right rejection was perfection. For men like LF, it's best to not turn them down the way Cat did. She'll string him along to the very end if she's smart. Who knows who he'd kill to get to her if she did reject him completely. She never explained why she didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale. I suppose we won't know. Just speculations. Still, she told Jon that only a fool would trust Littlefinger. That's important information for Jon to keep behind those lovely Lyanna eyes.

My biggest take away for Dany was in her conversation with Tyrion. She said when she let Dario down, she felt nothing and just wanted it to be over. She cried when Jorah left. I saw this as a sign that she has much more love for Jorah than she did for Dario. Good.

[abcfsk]

I will say: Sympathy may be impossible, but I understand Cersei. I felt her intense rage, and even thought it righteous. She's done many an evil act through the seasons, but the way she's been spat upon and mocked for the last few acts, yeah, anyone would go ballistic. 

Count me in as one who believed in Sansa from the start. Or liked her at least - for a while she seemed the show's least popular character. But she was relatable even then. 

[janjan]

9 hours ago, Anothermi said:

“As long as it stands, the dead cannot pass.”

And then he added, "And I cannot pass." Benjen is dead? Hence his greenish pallor. But he took the horse, and Bran can't walk. Oy!

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Uncle Benjen is kind of an ass. So yeah, he saved Bran and all, but then he leaves them in the middle of nothing without the horse??! How are they suposed to cross the Wall? Meera cannot carry Bran, he's bigger than her! So basically he left them to die. You could have gotten another horse, Uncle Benjen! Plus, you can use your own legs to walk and you're already dead! Don't be a jerk, leave the kids the horse!! Asshole.

I may be wrong, but I thought Benjen took them to the Weirwood tree just slightly north of Castle Black. We haven't seen that many of those trees. There's the one enroute to Root Dude's tree - both really far north - and the one Jon and Sam swore their Night's Watch vows in front of. They walked to that tree from the Castle Black tunnel entrance that figured so prominently in the very first episode of the Show. I think they are at the Wall and just have to get Commander Edd's attention. Given that the remaining NW are mostly new and likely more skittish than a drop of water on a hot griddle, I think the more non-threatening and helpless Bran and Meera look, the better it will go for them. I guess that is my spitball on that situation.

1 hour ago, janjan said:

And then he added, "And I cannot pass." Benjen is dead? Hence his greenish pallor. But he took the horse, and Bran can't walk. Oy!

Janjan, yes, the greenish pallor ... and the portions of flesh not quite "healed" on his face (although I've always liked the look of this actor and him being dead hasn't affected that in the least... blush). He explained to Bran and Meera that he and others were ambushed by WW and one of the WW shoved an ice sword into his gut and left him there for the magic to work (which we took to mean to zombonify him) and The CHoF got to him before he turned into a zomboni, shoved a dragon glass shard into his heart and now he's a... what? (Pallas? anyone? Bueller?) So he is dead. Good, but dead, like Berric D and Jon S. (I'm waitin' & seein' on the "Good" part because the last look he gave Bran and Meera sowed some seeds of doubt in my mind.)

The other thing that leapt out at me was: since Jon Snow is also dead, if he goes north of the Wall to fight the WW he won't be coming back to be King In The North again. That is...  as long as the Wall remains intact. <Duh. duh. DUH.>

Edited June 27, 2016 by Anothermi
fix it up

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

There was something I didn't understand though. She told Darioh the Dothraki wouldn't come with her, but then I saw a ship with Dothrakis. I thought it'd be great she left the Dothraki, because let's face it, they'd be more dangerous in Westeron than the WW, but she didn't leave them.

Dany is taking the Dothraki with her to Westeros - they comprise a huge portion of her army, she needs them. It is the Second Sons she left with Dario - his band of mercenaries that we never see since he brought them into her army.

This was an excellent episode - I've really enjoyed this season throughout (although I found the last episode distressing to watch!) And I did actually feel as if time was passing in this episode - as if there were days if not weeks passing by in between some of the scenes. Not that the timeline is ever going to make much sense, with some things happening so slowly while others take only the blink of an eye.

I had so many thoughts while watching. They have all deserted me now! Will have to come back later if any of them come back to me.

[Pallas]

18 hours ago, Anothermi said:

This spitball has been waiting to land since Season 1! Still they held something back – or at least I couldn't make it out. There may still be some mystery about who Jon Snow's father really is. Could anyone else make out what Lyanna whispered to young!Ned?

Since season 1, episode 2: thanks to some suggestive acting by Mark Addy and especially, Sean Bean. I admit I shouted something rude when Lyanna began to whisper...But lip-reading I believe she begins, "I had a baby..." then more inaudible, then, just barely audible but clear: "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him; you know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me, Ned. Promise me." 

[Anothermi]

24 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Since season 1, episode 2: thanks to some suggestive acting by Mark Addy and especially, Sean Bean. I admit I shouted something rude when Lyanna began to whisper...But lip-reading I believe she begins, "I had a baby..." then more inaudible, then, just barely audible but clear: "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him; you know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me, Ned. Promise me." 

Thank you so much, Pallas. That is exactly what we spitballed back in Season 1. So damn satisfying to have it confirmed because we've been acting like it is cannon for such a long time ... yet always with the specter of a figurative axe that could fall on our delusional necks at any time (This Show taught us that season after season). Of course I will have to go and try lip reading myself before I can truly accept that. OCD is me.  <couldn't they have written it in a book? I'm better at freeze framing than lip reading. Grrrr>

I am so appreciating that A Show tries not to make wild narrative leaps so we truly can work things out. I'm pretty impressed.

[Anothermi]

Oh - Oh - Oh! Nerd alert!

I just remembered the Library at the Citadel. What a wonder of wonders. And on that theme I 'wonder' if it is, or was modeled on, a real Library - some of which are breathtaking. I will wait to know until after the Series is over. But...

That was not what I'm so excited about. Back in Season One I got all worked up about that "thing" in the opening credits that appeared to be floating in the sky - with the history of Westeros  in bas relief on the main metal cross piece. I researched what it might be and came up with the word "astrolabe" which may or may not be what it is. It didn't seem to directly correlate at the time.

Did anyone else notice that the lighting fixtures hanging down from the roof of the Library were just like the "thing" in the opening credits? Here is a link to a screen grab, should you want to see a darkish version. If you don't want to click, rewatch the segment with Sam in the Library and pay attention to the hanging Light Fixtures and tell me they are not dimmer versions of what we see at the opening of every episode!  <<nerd shivers>>

Edited June 28, 2016 by Anothermi

[gingerella]

anothermi, related to your above revelations on the astrolabe and the Citadel, I noticed last night that in the opening credits that fiery rolling thingamajig, which I think is also an astrolabe, it sort of swooshed through the air in the upper right hand side of the TV screen during the end of the credits, something I do not remember it doing before last night...I wonder why...did anyone else notice that?  

Edited June 28, 2016 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

Ok, Ging. I'm not quite sure what you are referring (near) the end, but AT the end is a static view of the cross piece of the item in question (astrolabe, thingy, what have you) with the stag.

Now that I've seen it in the Library at the Citadel - the place where all the Maesters are trained - I'm prepared to spitball that there would be a Map Room at the Citadel as well. No Maester can go about his business without knowing the literal "lay of the land" of Westeros and beyond. Further that the Light Fixtures in the Map room would be the same as the ones in the Library. Further that the main Map at the Citadel - the seat of all Maester knowledge - would be a relief map - like the one Stannis had, with ornate depictions of all the important Keeps  or Cities.

What I think the opening credits are showing us is a view of that Map in the Citadel using the poetic license of the swooping camera weaving over, around and, sometimes, through a working version of the Light Fixture/astrolabe (hence the metal crossing metal sounds - which double as an audible reminder of the Wars Past and To Come). I used to think it was literally "in the sky" but I think "over head" depicting the heavens/Gods is a better description now I know where it/they are.  

The show always opens with a close up of the light glowing from behind a portion of this "thing" with moving "blades". The camera pans through the blades (cue 1st sound of metal crossing metal) as it pans down to Kings Landing. I am using S06E01 as an example, so the camera pans to Winterfell and pans up from the bottom of the Weirwood tree (growing leaves) showing a small view of the sphere in the sky to the right of the screen. It then focuses close up on the moving sphere before traveling on to the The Wall and Castle Black. As the camera pulls away from the top of The Wall it rises through the moving blades of the sphere (so they appear as silver - or perhaps glowing? - slices at the sides or edges of the frame. The camera continues to rise and then turns down towards Bravos, passing by one side of the moving sphere. Next, after an easy sweep to the right and not high enough to involve the sphere, it moves on to Meereen. After that it slides a short distance to the left (somewhat north of Meereen) to the Capital of Dorne. Again too low to involve the sphere. Ending with a close up of the Stag on the story cross piece of the sphere with the light glowing behind it which revolves and becomes the GoT logo/banner.

All the opening credits are variants of this. It could be that there is more than one sphere - after all there would be more than one light fixture in this spitballed Map Room. I think when a sphere is passed or gone through it indicates greater distance than when the camera merely pans (or swoops) left or right, north or south.

I've highlighted what I think you are referring to. I found it in the same location (bottom up view of the Winterfell Weirwood Tree growing) small and glowing on our right hand side of the screen. It was in the first three episodes this season which is enough to tell me that it's been there all along.

Does that help?

Edited June 28, 2016 by Anothermi

[Llywela]

On 20/06/2016 at 4:51 PM, Llywela said:

 I predict here and now that the final shot of the season will be Dany triumphant, setting off for Westeros in her shiny new armada - she seems to get the lion's share of final scenes!

I'm so chuffed that I got this so bang on the money - I rarely allow myself to predict anything, but I knew this was how it would be, and it was!

Okay, I'm going attempt a few more cogent thoughts now. Starting at King's Landing. Man - we've been trying to guess who might be next in line for the throne if anything happened to Tommen (back in simpler days when we expected Mountainstein to crush him in trial by combat) - but Cersei being crowned queen in her own right I don't think occurred to any of us! Who could have imagined that back at the start of the season! Alas poor Margaery - she so nearly made it. And now we will never know what her endgame was. I felt really bad for Mace Tyrell, as well - he's never really registered with me before, but he looked so devastated during Loras's trial. Loras himself...mostly just shocked me when he actually spoke, it's been so long I'd forgotten what his voice sounded like! And poor Tommen. I know we like to mock him as weak, but he was just a kid trapped in a den of vipers, and they overwhelmed him in the end.

Arya made it back to Westeros in record time, apparently well healed - maybe her storyline hasn't been synchronised with everyone else's. A couple of people up-thread have expressed surprise at her ability to take and use faces - she's been able to do that since last season, when she took a face to exact revenge on a name on her list and lost her sight as punishment. I kinda wish we'd seen her learning how to do it (so that we'd better understand the process) instead of all those interminable scenes of corpse washing. I hadn't realised it was her when we saw Alt!Arya eyeing Jaime - what was that all about? Was it just recognition? Jaime isn't on her list but she'd know him only too well from her time in King's Landing, so very long ago now.

Although...how long ago was that, in universe? I can't keep track of the time line. Gilly's baby confuses me - he doesn't look more than a year old, but he was born several seasons ago. And Walda went through an entire pregnancy between last season and this, so time has definitely passed. Maybe I shouldn't try to make sense of it!

Speaking of Gilly, she seems to have another new dress since we last saw her. Maybe she sold Sam's sister's dress and bought herself several more practical day frocks with the money! Goodness only knows what Sam expects to do with her now, since the Citadel doesn't (yet) seem inclined to overthrow tradition and let her stay.

Time definitely seemed to pass up in Winterfell during this episode, as Jon and Sansa settled back in and threw a housewarming party - that would have taken time to organise and get everyone there, especially with the snow making travel difficult up north. Yet Brienne still hasn't arrived back from Riverrun, despite other people performing prodigious feats of travel in the same time frame. Probably just as well she missed the battle for Winterfell, really, but you'd think she'd have made it back for the after-party.

Thoroughly enjoyed little Lady Lyanna showing up all the cowardly bannermen. Although not quite as much as I enjoyed Jon's shock when he was declared King in the North. Poor Jon never wanted to be king any more than he wanted to be lord commander. He just tries so doggedly to do the right thing at every turn, and keeps getting promoted as a side effect!

The reveal of Jon's parentage I imagine came as a surprise to exactly no one - it was what we'd all predicted ever since Ned so fatefully promised to tell him all about his mother next time they met! The question now remains: did Lyanna go willingly with Rhaegar or was she abducted?

Once again Young Ned was so perfectly Ned it hurt. And Lyanna was very well cast to be Jon's mother.

I wonder. Was that the last we'll see of Dario and his invisible Second Sons? Will he end up woven back into the story again somehow at a later date? I'm glad to see the back of Meereen, I've got to say! If only Dany knew, her invasion of Westeros is perfectly timed - if she'd come a few years earlier, she'd have had a harder fight of it, but after years of civil war the country is such a wreck it should be easy pickings. In theory. Especially since she already has a few alliances to give her a head start, thanks to Varys. Cersei is pretty much both completely isolated and completely insane at this point - actually, I'm not sure if that'll make capturing King's Landing easier or harder! The Lannister army might give her a fight, but who else is there to oppose her in the south? It's the north that'll be interesting - will she just go straight onto the offensive or will she try to negotiate?

Interesting times lie ahead, that's for sure! How many more seasons will there be, do we know? The story seems to be moving squarely into the endgame, but I daresay they'll string it out for as long as possible.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Llywela

[ChocButterfly]

21 hours ago, DirewolfPup said:

 When she had the face on, she was giving googly eyes to Jamie. What was that all about? Plotting to kill his girlfriend maybe. Or she may kill them both. Interesting.

Oh my yes!! What was that all about indeed! Jaimie is not in her list, but if I were her and had the chance I'd take out the leader of the Lannister army, the main Lannister heir and Cersei's brother/lover if I could.

Quote

But lip-reading I believe she begins, "I had a baby..." then more inaudible, then, just barely audible but clear: "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him; you know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me, Ned. Promise me." 

My subtitles did have that, except for the "I had a baby part". But she definetely said:  "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him; you know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me, Ned. Promise me." I don't know why they keep being cryptic about it, it's not like the cat isn't out of the bag already, or do they think we're wondering who the father is?

34 minutes ago, Llywela said:

The question now remains: did Lyanna go willingly with Rhaegar or was she abducted?

That could actually be the only question left now. I've always believed Lyanna ran away with Reagher willingly. Several clues indicate so:

• Ser Barristan spoke highly about Reaghar. He knew the Prince. He was a noble Prince, according to him, he even mingled with the poor! That doesn't sound like someone who'd abduct and rape a woman.
• Every time Robert mentioned how Reaghar took her bethroted, Ned was just too quite, and never spoke of the issue. You'd think he'd be even more angry at Reaghar for raping his sister after she died of chilbirth because of it, but he never said anything bad about him.
• Littlefinger's story about that rose Reagher gave Lyanna at the tournament and his amused expression when Sansa was talking about what Reaghar had done to her aunt. It made me think their affair was a well kknown secret in Westeros, heh.
• The fact that Lyanna didn't seem like a prisoner in that Tower. Sure, there were knights guarding it outside, but that was more for protection than to keep her in. Inside there weren't any guards, just servants, and they even gave Ned the baby, no fuss or anything. Lyanna didn't seem to be locked and she wasn't in distress, except for the fact that she was dying of childbirth, of course.

[gingerella]

11 hours ago, Anothermi said:

All the opening credits are variants of this. It could be that there is more than one sphere - after all there would be more than one light fixture in this spitballed Map Room. I think when a sphere is passed or gone through it indicates greater distance than when the camera merely pans (or swoops) left or right, north or south.

I've highlighted what I think you are referring to. I found it in the same location (bottom up view of the Winterfell Weirwood Tree growing) small and glowing on our right hand side of the screen. It was in the first three episodes this season which is enough to tell me that it's been there all along.

Does that help?

So you're saying that it's only seen when the birds eye view of the map goes up to a certain viewpoint? I will need to look at the last episode and mark what I'm seeing and share with you as well. My homework today!

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

I felt really bad for Mace Tyrell, as well - he's never really registered with me before, but he looked so devastated during Loras's trial. Loras himself...mostly just shocked me when he actually spoke, it's been so long I'd forgotten what his voice sounded like! And poor Tommen. I know we like to mock him as weak, but he was just a kid trapped in a den of vipers, and they overwhelmed him in the end.

Yes Llywela! I also felt bad for Mace, even though he's basically an idiot buffoon like Lady Olenna never fails to point out, he did produce two great children and he looked broken like a father would in that situation. It was also telling that as much as Marg was playing the Sparrow, the Sparrow was apparently playing Marg right back because we learned that he had promised not to mutilate Loras' forhead, and he had his men block everyone from leaving the Great Sept when Marg realized that something as very wrong and they all needed to leave at once. So in the end, the Sparrow's arrogance at assuming he was going to have the last laugh at Cersei's expense proved to be his downfall. Stupid moron!

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

A couple of people up-thread have expressed surprise at her ability to take and use faces - she's been able to do that since last season, when she took a face to exact revenge on a name on her list and lost her sight as punishment. I kinda wish we'd seen her learning how to do it (so that we'd better understand the process) instead of all those interminable scenes of corpse washing. I hadn't realised it was her when we saw Alt!Arya eyeing Jaime - what was that all about? Was it just recognition? Jaime isn't on her list but she'd know him only too well from her time in King's Landing, so very long ago now.

I think some of us are confused at how she got that face, not that she's able to use another's face, just that where did she get that woman's face in the first place? Does she have to kill someone, or find someone who's recently dead, to take their face? Or did she steal that face from the House of B&W or what? Its very unclear. Regarding her eyeing Jamie, I think in retrospect, we're to think she was making sure he couldn't tell she was actually Arya Stark, that's how I took that scene after I realized it was Arya.

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Time definitely seemed to pass up in Winterfell during this episode, as Jon and Sansa settled back in and threw a housewarming party - that would have taken time to organise and get everyone there, especially with the snow making travel difficult up north.

I think that feast was just all the remaining fighters assembled plus the Houses/bannermen who did not support Jon's fight to oust the Bolton regime. I would assume it would take a few weeks to sort out all the dead, and burn everyone/thing because after all, Jon and the Wildlings would know enough to know they need to burn all the dead, right?!  I keep wondering about Rickon being buried in the crypt and not burned...Maybe the Night King needs to visibly see his dead in order to raise them?

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

I've got to say! If only Dany knew, her invasion of Westeros is perfectly timed - if she'd come a few years earlier, she'd have had a harder fight of it, but after years of civil war the country is such a wreck it should be easy pickings. In theory. Especially since she already has a few alliances to give her a head start, thanks to Varys. Cersei is pretty much both completely isolated and completely insane at this point - actually, I'm not sure if that'll make capturing King's Landing easier or harder! The Lannister army might give her a fight, but who else is there to oppose her in the south? It's the north that'll be interesting - will she just go straight onto the offensive or will she try to negotiate?

Great point!  Yes, you are so right. If Dany had made her move across the sea any sooner, she would have faced a much larger battle, but now? I doubt many in KL would risk their lives for Cersei. It will be interesting to see next season to see if it's the Baratheon stag or the Lannister lion that sits atop the KL tower in the opening credit sequence.  I don't remember if during the crowning scene they named her Cersei Lannister or Cersei Baratheon, does anyone remember?  I did get cold chills for Jamie during that scene. She looks at him with eyes that feel nothing, nothing even for him anymore. I know he was sent away by Tommen and Kevan, and was relieved of his Kingsguard duties, but I would assume Cersei would reinstate him, though who knows, she may well kill him off too. She's that insane. It would be both fitting and sad if Cersei kills Jamie, after all he's done in the name of their forbidden love...blerg!

5 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Littlefinger's story about that rose Reagher gave Lyanna at the tournament and his amused expression when Sansa was talking about what Reaghar had done to her aunt. It made me think their affair was a well kknown secret in Westeros, heh.

I think this pretty much sums up why I've assumed that they were in love and it was not kidnap and rape.  Plus, when Lyanna was talking to Ned on her deathbed, she didn't seem like "OMG, he raped me, and this is his bastard son!" She was terrified that Robert would kill her baby son, so I'm assuming he was welcomed by her because she was in love with Rhaegar.

[Llywela]

12 minutes ago, gingerella said:

 I don't remember if during the crowning scene they named her Cersei Lannister or Cersei Baratheon, does anyone remember?

It was Lannister, I'm sure it was.

The confusion over how Arya/Jaqen's face-changing works is why I really wish we'd actually been given even a teeny bit of insight into the technicalities instead of all the corpse-washing scenes. I mean, Arya seemed to just take the face off like a mask in this episode but surely it can't be that simple! When we first saw Jaqen do it, it seemed more like magic than just removing a mask...although he did turn around to do it, so maybe that's all it is after all. But there's got to be more to it than that, some magic that makes the mask become a person's actual face so that the disguise can't be seen - in which case, how did Arya learn how to do it when all she'd done was wash corpses? Two whole seasons in that wretched place and we learned nothing that matters!

[gingerella]

Thanks for the 411 on Lannister vs. Baratheon. To me, that's a pretty huge shift because until now, it's been all about House Baratheon and Baratheon bloodlines. I find it preposterous really, that a Lannister, and a woman to boot, could simply be named Queen Ruler of Westeros just like that by the newly named Hand, without any larger discussion. Yanno?

IIRC, we did essentially see Jaqen take off his mask on the steps of the House of B&W, though the camera panned behind Arya so we were denied the full pull off of his old face to reveal A Man that we recognized. We also saw A Bitch removing someone's face towards the end of our time in the House of B&W, and it appeared that she carefully removed the face by cutting around the outline of said face. Of course in real life I highly doubt one can lift an entire face off a body in one neat go but hey, this is Braavos so who knows what their plastic surgery skills are or are not! ;)

[Llywela]

20 minutes ago, gingerella said:

IIRC, we did essentially see Jaqen take off his mask on the steps of the House of B&W, though the camera panned behind Arya so we were denied the full pull off of his old face to reveal A Man that we recognized. We also saw A Bitch removing someone's face towards the end of our time in the House of B&W, and it appeared that she carefully removed the face by cutting around the outline of said face. Of course in real life I highly doubt one can lift an entire face off a body in one neat go but hey, this is Braavos so who knows what their plastic surgery skills are or are not! ;)

But there's got to be more to it than that - some kind of preserving agent, at the very least, to stop the faces from rotting. Some means of making them mold to the face of the wearer so that it looks like their own face, with no join showing. Also...do the warriors just carry a bunch of faces around with them at all times in case of need, or are they able to just summon a face out of thin air, by magic, so long as said face is in the catalogue to be summoned? I have so many questions about this process and Show has answered none of them! I guess the logistics just make more sense to me if there's some kind of magic involved, because if there isn't, the practicalities just fall flat. Maybe I should stop trying to make sense of it...

[gingerella]

So, uh, can we talk about the motherfucking MUSICAL SCORE of this season finale?  I was absolutely transfixed by the musical score that was created for these visuals. I think one of the key things, aside from A Show's storylines, was that this season finale was so incredibly lush and decadent in its visual imagery, which was on a par with the best film making I've ever seen in either TV or film. I have been an ardent Andrei Tarkovsky fan for decades, and this had elements of Tarkovsky films embedded into the fabric of the episode, at least for me it did.  In fact, I would love to see this episode on a movie screen in a theatre with Dolby surround sound because the combination of story telling, filmmaking, and musical scoring was so out of this stratosphere, and I think that is what propelled us forward with such intense emotions Sunday evening. I just found the S6 score on Amazon and was listening to clips and it gave me chills remembering the visuals that went with the music. Just, wow.  The musical accompaniment that went with that entire trial sequence - where we saw Cersei, Sparrow, Marg & Tommen all preparing for the trial, straight through to Tommen jumping to his death - was just mind blowing in the way the music crept up, leaping and dodging like flames licking at the air. And then that entire final sequence from the Winterfell feast clear through to panning up and away over Dany's armada of ships - three completely different scenes in completely different places, all lovingly held together by a haunting melody that acted as shimmering golden thread holding all three scenes together as one - the music took us on an emotional journey that visuals only could not do. It had to be the combination of story, visual & music that nearly dragged us along for the ride. It was simply amazing. I have never experienced TV like that before. This finale, like last season's, seemed to take our annual E09 battle high point, and reach even higher for E10, just when you thought E10 was a throw away epi...oh no no no, not last year and definilately not this year!  For all the hoopla that I imagine was made over theE09's  Battle of the Bastards (I say that from the plethora of headlines I had to avoid clicking on two weeks ago!), I think E10 was the penultimate episode, like ever.

[Pallas]

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

I hadn't realised it was her when we saw Alt!Arya eyeing Jaime - what was that all about? Was it just recognition? Jaime isn't on her list but she'd know him only too well from her time in King's Landing, so very long ago now.

I think there are two options: (1) Arya was the serving girl, and was showing off -- as we know she is wont, along with her aunt -- improvising in her role, secure that she cannot be detected, and amused that she should find herself with a choice of valuable targets. Showing off to herself, and to herself amazed at the contrast with her younger, frightened days as servant to Jaime's father. (2) Arya killed the serving girl and took her face.  I don't rule out #2.  

18 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Did anyone else notice that the lighting fixtures hanging down from the roof of the Library were just like the "thing" in the opening credits? Here is a link to a screen grab, should you want to see a darkish version.

Fantastic catch, Anothermi!  Yes, that sure looks like our cantering astrolabe! And sign me up for the notion that the Citadel houses a Map Room, with the same model we've swept over every week.

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

Poor Jon never wanted to be king any more than he wanted to be lord commander. He just tries so doggedly to do the right thing at every turn, and keeps getting promoted as a side effect!

So true, and like his uncle Ned in that...the not-quite accidental Lord and Hand, forever dogged, no matter how elevated. Until virtue dictated that each move past the bounds of his modesty and take a stand that broke with tradition: Ned in passing judgment on the Lannisters, from the Iron Throne (within his rights as Robert's Hand and surrogate that day, but without precedent), and Jon in ordering the gates opened for the Free Folk. It got them each killed. Only one got promoted again.

10 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

I've always believed Lyanna ran away with Reagher willingly. Several clues indicate so:

You said it, Choc. All the clues you cite add up to a compelling statement for an elopement, not an abduction.  

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

I don't remember if during the crowning scene they named her Cersei Lannister or Cersei Baratheon, does anyone remember? 

"Cersei of the House Lannister, first of her name." Her diadem seems to have a lion design at the crest, but doesn't hold a candle to those cunning stag crowns that the Baratheons sported. Then again, it has a living head in the middle. Until next we fleet.

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

I did get cold chills for Jamie during that scene. She looks at him with eyes that feel nothing, nothing even for him anymore. I know he was sent away by Tommen and Kevan, and was relieved of his Kingsguard duties, but I would assume Cersei would reinstate him,

Hmmm...I'm not sure. We saw that Qyborn replaced Kevan as Hand (those broaches just make themselves don't they!), but doesn't seem to have helped himself to Pycelle's chain, in lieu of the one removed from him when he banned. Cersei is probably doing without magi. The Mountain seems to have stepped into the opening Jaime left vacant. Won't "I'm no knight!" Sandor be proud (and maybe a little jealous!) to hear that his older brother is now Lord Commander Clegane? 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

I find it preposterous really, that a Lannister, and a woman to boot, could simply be named Queen Ruler of Westeros just like that by the newly named Hand, without any larger discussion.

But it looks as if the full 100% of the region's 1% were blown to seventh heaven. The people witnessing the coronation (held that very night, it seems) seemed to be "small folk." Probably herded in by the King's Guard and promised a mug of grog, if they each got their one line right. And as Walder Frey told the queasy Jaime, fear conveys the right to rule. No one with a different view -- and the means to back it up -- is anywhere near Queen's Rising. Unless we're counting Jaime.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

But it looks as if the full 100% of the region's 1% were blown to seventh heaven. The people witnessing the coronation (held that very night, it seems) seemed to be "small folk." Probably herded in by the King's Guard and promised a mug of grog, if they each got their one line right. And as Walder Frey told the queasy Jaime, fear conveys the right to rule. No one with a different view -- and the means to back it up -- is anywhere near Queen's Rising. Unless we're counting Jaime.

That's my take on it. Power at a point. Cersei is able to claim power (as the bereaved wife and mother of kings) because there is no one left in King's Landing who can oppose her. There isn't currently anyone left in the seven kingdoms in a position to oppose her, really - except perhaps Littlefinger, with the Knights of the Vale, who are busy elsewhere as things stand. And except perhaps Jaime, if he could rely on the Lannister army to support him instead of her. I think it's going to take Dany and her armada to get Cersei off that throne - that's if she doesn't blow up the rest of King's Landing to avoid that fate, which I wouldn't put past her at this point.

The Westerosi political scene has had gaping holes blown in it this season - all those former proud houses, either gone or all but gone. The Martells taken out by an internal coup. The Tyrells all but wiped out by Cersei's coup. The Boltons wiped out. Walder Frey and his oldest sons taken out by Arya. The Lannisters divided and in disarray. At this point, with Jon and Sansa reunited, Bran on his way south and Arya back in Westeros, the Starks are suddenly the house in the ascendancy, comparatively speaking. But they won't be interested in opposing Cersei, they care only about the North. And it suddenly occurs to me that they will probably expect opposition from the south, which is unlikely to come because Cersei will want to consolidate her power in King's Landing (and the junior Freys will be scrabbling after daddy dear's demise).

Man, next season should be interesting!

[Anothermi]

9 hours ago, Llywela said:

The confusion over how Arya/Jaqen's face-changing works is why I really wish we'd actually been given even a teeny bit of insight into the technicalities instead of all the corpse-washing scenes. I mean, Arya seemed to just take the face off like a mask in this episode but surely it can't be that simple! When we first saw Jaqen do it, it seemed more like magic than just removing a mask...although he did turn around to do it, so maybe that's all it is after all. But there's got to be more to it than that, some magic that makes the mask become a person's actual face so that the disguise can't be seen <snip> Two whole seasons in that wretched place and we learned nothing that matters!

Glad to find another nerd - if for a different subject. I love the depth with which you have pondered this subject. I've been willing to hand wave away the "technicalities" of face changing. Maybe there's something in the poison water from the font in the middle of the Great Hall that the soon-to-die drink from? I've been thinking of the "process" as part magic / part training; to blend into the background so well that even if every Faceless One were always wearing their own face, no body would notice them. Of course we saw that Bronn noticed Arya, but I'd bet he couldn't describe her in any detail because his attention was on 1) was she attractive to him? and 2) why are they all attracted to Jaime? However, I would be interested if they went into detail about the House of B&W face changing process. I think they didn't because it wouldn't advance the story, but it WOULD raise a lot of questions that would distract from same.

My theory was (as posted up thread) that when Arya put A Bitch's face in one of the face niches, she took the one that was there. 'A face taken must have a face returned.'

9 hours ago, Llywela said:

how did Arya learn how to do it when all she'd done was wash corpses?

In S05E10 Mother's Mercy we see Arya kill another person on her List - Meryn Trant. She wore a face from the House of B&W to infiltrate the Brothel he was patronizing. At the beginning she had hair covering her face, but when he chose her as the one he wanted, she showed her face. It was not Arya's face. She removed it before she killed him so he would know who was killing him. This was what Jaqen berated her for, and for which she was struck blind. One thing from this sequence will drive you mad if you try to reconcile the "process" to what you see there. Arya seems to take off her "face", to Meryn Trant, by pulling it from the top of her forehead - hair and all!

I don't know if she "learned" to do it or if the faces just transform the wearer and have an "ancient spell" (like the foundations of the Wall have) that makes them work without acting like dead human tissue. There are magic elements to this show.

<now you've given me one more thing to chew over>

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

So, uh, can we talk about the motherfucking MUSICAL SCORE of this season finale? 

YOU sure as hell can - and eloquently too! Big hugs to your entire post. I've got to go hunt down the score now.

16 hours ago, Llywela said:

I can't keep track of the time line. Gilly's baby confuses me - he doesn't look more than a year old, but he was born several seasons ago. And Walda went through an entire pregnancy between last season and this, so time has definitely passed. Maybe I shouldn't try to make sense of it!

This has been a perennial Rant for me. Thanks for chiming in - saves me the repetition.  Yes, we probably shouldn't try to make sense of it, but it's good to have company on this frustrating aspect of the show.

10 hours ago, gingerella said:

I did get cold chills for Jamie during that scene. She looks at him with eyes that feel nothing, nothing even for him anymore. I know he was sent away by Tommen and Kevan, and was relieved of his Kingsguard duties, but I would assume Cersei would reinstate him, though who knows, she may well kill him off too. She's that insane. It would be both fitting and sad if Cersei kills Jamie, after all he's done in the name of their forbidden love...blerg!

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

We saw that Qyborn replaced Kevan as Hand (those broaches just make themselves don't they!), but doesn't seem to have helped himself to Pycelle's chain, in lieu of the one removed from him when he banned. Cersei is probably doing without magi. The Mountain seems to have stepped into the opening Jaime left vacant.

One of the things we learned about Cersei - from almost the beginning - is that she deeply resents the constraints put upon her by virtue of being the twin who was born Female. She was the one with the brains and the cunning, but she wasn't allowed to learn to use weapons (like Arya and Lady Lyanna Mormont) and she wasn't allowed to make decisions about her own life without the interference of some man or other. (That may even be why she hated Tyrion so much, not that he killed her mother but that even HE got more autonomy over his life than she did!) I think we've even speculated, at one point, that her attraction to Jaime was that she wanted to BE him. She needed Jaime to protect her from other men's power over her. She also needed him to provide her with surrogates - that she might have hoped would be the perfect blend of him and her; no longer split in two. I also think that was why she loved Joffrey so fiercely. Like a Stage Door Parent, pushing her child to be what she, herself, had wanted to be. Those dreams were shattered when Joffrey was killed (and Myrcella). She loved Tommen, but he had been taken from her by another woman and there was the witches prophecy that had already proved two thirds true. He would never fulfill her dreams. 

Once she'd dispatched the "Westerosi 1%", as Pallas put it, there was no one to dispute her claim. She could claim what her powerful father could not - and believed her incapable of...  She could become Queen! and no longer subject to any man. This was her sweet revenge on every man who thought he could dictate to HER. (Ging said it, "she's gone insane"  - from all the bitter pills she feels she's had to swallow all her life.)

Jaime thought he had claim to her love, but he's only had claim due to her need of him. She has the Mountain now. A(nother) dead-but-extremely-powerful man who will do anything she asks without question -  or without personal will to counter hers. Jaime would challenge her decisions, at least verbally (he has in the past and she's in no mood for even verbal irritants). The Mountain won't. And Qyburn doesn't want to rule, but he wants the power and the access she has afforded him to do the kind of science the Maesters would not let him explore.

I think Jaime knows in his heart that he has lost her.

But, as her father said, she isn't as smart as she is thinks she is because she doesn't have a plan B if she loses either the Mountain or Qyburn... and Arya may be coming for two of the thee of them...  at any time.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Anothermi

[Anothermi]

Part way through a rewatch.

This Show. It's attention to detail is soooo - rewarding.

I'm at the part where Sam, Gilly and baby Sam arrive near a viewpoint of the Citadel. I remember, when I first watched, that there were a lot of white birds flying from the top of the Citadel. I thought they might be doves, but as they were never mentioned again in that scene I forgot about them.

BUT, in Winterfell, at the end of next scene, Sansa informs Jon that a white raven arrived from the Citadel announcing that Winter is (finally) here.

Within the space of one scene, I'd already forgotten that I'd seen that "unkindness* of ravens" flying from the Citadel. The last time we saw such a large group of ravens it was Robb summoning his bannermen after news of Ned's death reached him. I have to say it was a lot more ominous with black ravens, yet this news - Winter is Here - is probably worse.

* name for a group of ravens from the 1st site I found - Baltimore Bird Club

It's impressively fitting.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Anothermi

[Anothermi]

And further along in the rewatch:

The 1st shot of Benjen (from behind, but I'd recognize him anywhere - or so I'd like to think) staring into the distance. Between the trees in front of him you can see a pale outline of the Wall. This confirms that he has brought them as close to Castle Black as he can. With this confirmed, I have a few spitballs to fling:

- I now think that it was he who brought the bodies of his compatriots (the Night's Watch who died with him) to the same spot for the Night's Watch to find (I think it was Ghost who found the "hand" of one of them that tipped the NW to their whereabouts) in hopes they'd see the warning. A bit dramatic, but he was newly re-animated. Perhaps a bit disoriented?

- I also think that the CHoF made a Melissandre sized mistake in how they chose to create some...thing... to defend them from the 1st Men. The Night King was created from a living man. Benjen, who fights for men - because the enemy has changed - was created from a newly dead man infused with the "magic" of the WW who then had a dragon glass shard inserted into his heart. Minor, but important difference.

If at first you don't succeed? You know the rest.

I also think Benjen's last "look" at them (which I was suspicious of at first) actually was wishing them the good fortune that he verbalized - but from a pragmatic Stark perspective which would have been: these two are going to need all the good fortune they can get... Winter is HERE.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Anothermi

[ChocButterfly]

4 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I also think Benjen's last "look" at them (which I was suspicious of at first) actually was wishing them the good fortune that he verbalized - but from a pragmatic Stark perspective which would have been: these two are going to need all the good fortune they can get... Winter is HERE.

Yes, it is just how the Starks, look, always so...stark!

 

8 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I did get cold chills for Jamie during that scene. She looks at him with eyes that feel nothing, nothing even for him anymore. I know he was sent away by Tommen and Kevan, and was relieved of his Kingsguard duties, but I would assume Cersei would reinstate him, though who knows, she may well kill him off too. She's that insane. It would be both fitting and sad if Cersei kills Jamie, after all he's done in the name of their forbidden love...blerg!

I actually think Jaimie is going to end up killing Cersei himself and maybe committing suicide after that. The look he gave her, he was agasped, shocked and disgusted wabout what she had done, but also scared. Plus, he'll probably blame her for Tommen, not that like he really cared much about his kids anyway. So, if Cersei continues to go mad and puts the people's live of King's Landing in jeopardy, I can see Jaimie being the "Queenslayer".

That would actually be refreshing from Jaimie, Not that it'd completetly redeem him in my eyes, but it'll be something in his favor, hehe.

[janjan]

9 hours ago, Llywela said:

Bran on his way south

I'm not sure they need to go south. Perhaps Meera just needs to keep Bran's body alive so he can fly around as the 3-eyed raven. It apparently doesn't matter where he starts from. Root Dude started from a cave, where he was immobilized. So Meera will be hunting a lot of rabbits. It's not much of a life for her, but it's like the life she had with Jojen.

[DirewolfPup]

For the tall task of killing Cersei, I vote for Jamie or Mountainstein.  There's something glorious about the idea of Cersei becoming so far removed from human sensibilities that she is murdered by her lover and closest confidant or the creature she created.

If Bran only needs a Weirwood tree, let's send the kid to Winterfell :) Stark-three-way-reunion special!

[Llywela]

2 minutes ago, DirewolfPup said:

For the tall task of killing Cersei, I vote for Jamie or Mountainstein.  There's something glorious about the idea of Cersei becoming so far removed from human sensibilities that she is murdered by her lover and closest confidant or the creature she created.

If Bran only needs a Weirwood tree, let's send the kid to Winterfell :) Stark-three-way-reunion special!

And please let Arya also get to Winterfell next season, since she has the chance now of reuniting with her siblings, rather than just blind pursuit of vengeance all over the country. I mean, if she's been in Westeros long enough to get to the Twins and slaughter a few Freys, she's been in Westeros long enough to learn that Jon Snow and Sansa Stark have retaken Winterfell - the news has got to be spreading south by now. Arya may not care much for Sansa, but she loves Jon fiercely. So I suppose the question is: does she want to see Jon again more than she wants to murder Cersei Lannister?

It does begin to feel as if Jaime might end up killing his beloved Cersei - after everything he's done in the name of their love. It almost felt foreshadowed in his conversation with Edmure (speaking of whom - will Arya hang around the Twins long enough to let her long-lost uncle out of his dungeon?). It would certainly be a poetic end to their twisted love affair.

[Pallas]

17 hours ago, Llywela said:

But there's got to be more to it than that - some kind of preserving agent, at the very least, to stop the faces from rotting. Some means of making them mold to the face of the wearer so that it looks like their own face, with no join showing. Also...do the warriors just carry a bunch of faces around with them at all times in case of need, or are they able to just summon a face out of thin air, by magic, so long as said face is in the catalogue to be summoned? I have so many questions about this process and Show has answered none of them! I guess the logistics just make more sense to me if there's some kind of magic involved, because if there isn't, the practicalities just fall flat. Maybe I should stop trying to make sense of it...

 

10 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Maybe there's something in the poison water from the font in the middle of the Great Hall that the soon-to-die drink from? {snip} 

In S05E10 Mother's Mercy we see Arya kill another person on her List - Meryn Trant. She wore a face from the House of B&W to infiltrate the Brothel he was patronizing. At the beginning she had hair covering her face, but when he chose her as the one he wanted, she showed her face. It was not Arya's face. She removed it before she killed him so he would know who was killing him. This was what Jaqen berated her for, and for which she was struck blind. One thing from this sequence will drive you mad if you try to reconcile the "process" to what you see there. Arya seems to take off her "face", to Meryn Trant, by pulling it from the top of her forehead - hair and all!

I don't know if she "learned" to do it or if the faces just transform the wearer and have an "ancient spell" (like the foundations of the Wall have) that makes them work without acting like dead human tissue. There are magic elements to this show.  

It's a puzzlement. Magic must be part of the mix. As a field operative at Harrenhall, Jaqen seemed to exhibit uncanny powers: super-speed, including the ability to assume his victim's garments at that same super-speed. I believe it was only later, on the road as he and Arya parted, that we saw he could assume another's face.

"Jaqen H'garre is dead," he tells Arya, and now we know this was no figure of speech. He then turns his back, makes a small gesture, and turns around with a new face and hair (as Anothermi pointed out about how she confronted Meryn Trant -- also, Walder Frey.) 

Looking at the scene Anothermi describes above, from last season's finale. When Arya sneaks the face she stole back into the gallery, the "face" she returns looks exactly like a plasticine face-mask: oval, filmy and floppy. She is intercepted by A Man and A Bitch. A Man punishes her by drinking poison himself and collapsing; Arya is crouched over his body, when she hears and then sees that A Bitch has suddenly transformed into A Man, a good foot taller (in a novitiate's dress, but one that fits him). Shocked, Arya pincers her hand over the corpse's face and removes face-mask after face-mask, which come off intact (complete with eyes, it seems, since the eyes on the corpse change with each new face). We don't see what the removed faces look like, piled beside her, before Arya comes upon her own face staring back at her. "The faces are for No One," A Man tells her. "You are still Some One. And to Some One, a face is as good as poison." And with that, Arya grows cataracts and goes blind.

So here goes. I'm guessing, (1) The faces are flesh transformed into a magical element that itself transforms the No-One-of-a-wearer into water: water, which assumes the shape of its container (the face). Water, which comprises 60% of even regular ol' adult human bodies. Water, which was Jaqen's first request of Arya, and which features in all the rituals within the House.  

(2) A Man is a fully-mature shape-shifter, able to transform face, physique and clothing -- size or substance -- altogether, instantly. A Bitch may have been fairly advanced too, since A Show tried to show us that she had something like Jaqen's super-speed (when she was chasing Arya); her Crone looked tinier and more misshapen than even a good actor could accomplish by crouching. And Arya? At the Twins, if Arya is the serving girl from when we first see her, she too can transform her physique: that wench was no sprite.  

A Man was right: Arya is now No One -- if by No One, we mean a shape-shifter. Yet it also seems clear that Arya was right: Arya is a shape-shifter who is also Arya Stark. (Or is she? Because she says so, and because she tends to Arya Stark's agenda? But what if this is also the Many-Faced God's agenda?) Right now I think that Arya is to the Faceless what Bran is to the Wargs: the acme, the once-in-a-millennium, a faceless three-eyed raven. That would make Arya the Appointed One of the Many-Faced God, as Bran is the Appointed One of the Old Gods, and suggest that the Many-Faced God sent her "the prophets" Syrio and Jaqen, as Jojen was sent to Bran.

That's a mystical interpretation, and one that presumes polytheism while it borrows from Abrahamic religions. So far this story has been wonderfully equivocal about the existence of gods, and the ethics of both religion and magic. It may stay that way. But it looks to me as if, at the least, Arya is the first (or only) of a new breed of the Faceless. And come to think of it -- did Jaqen ever explain why he often referred to "the Faceless Men of Braavos"? Yet didn't seem to bat an eye at training female apprentices?  

Or there could be another possibility. Maybe Arya's refusal to subsume her identity is Not a Good Thing -- not the moral equivalent of Bran's servitude to something greater than himself, or of Jon's reclaiming his family and a place in the world. Arya's ability to shape-shift as Some One could be a sign that her soul has been poisoned. Maybe not forever; maybe there's an antidote: fellow-feeling, perhaps.

[Anothermi]

3 hours ago, janjan said:

I'm not sure they need to go south. Perhaps Meera just needs to keep Bran's body alive so he can fly around as the 3-eyed raven. It apparently doesn't matter where he starts from. Root Dude started from a cave, where he was immobilized. So Meera will be hunting a lot of rabbits. It's not much of a life for her, but it's like the life she had with Jojen.

Good points janjan. Her travels with Jojen were like trial runs of what her participation in the great War to Come would be. Not glorious, but mundane... and crucial.

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

It does begin to feel as if Jaime might end up killing his beloved Cersei - after everything he's done in the name of their love. It almost felt foreshadowed in his conversation with Edmure (speaking of whom - will Arya hang around the Twins long enough to let her long-lost uncle out of his dungeon?). It would certainly be a poetic end to their twisted love affair.

Up to this point, Arya has been focused on killing. I'm uncertain if she would stop to save Edmure, his wife and their chi her cousin. They don't seem to be on her radar. But she earned her final Faceless merit badge after she showed compassion for Lady Crane... and survived the consequences. I suppose it could happen (maybe off screen? or in passing?).

Jaime killing Cersei would not be poetic to him. He's only had her as the life raft that keeps him afloat in an otherwise meaningless, overly complicated life. Sure, he loved fighting (and winning) as much as the Hound and so many others, but the value he place on that was linked to the value it had for his sister. Brienne has seen him at his most vulnerable (literally and figuratively naked) and been there for him. But they are broken beings who recognized that in each other. Their mutual flaw. Brienne has a "code" - her oath to others - that keeps her going. Jaime had his oath to Cersei and she no longer needs it. 

At this point - the euphoric high of a Season's end - I can easily imagine Jaime replicating his most infamous Act - Regent Slaying - but this time saving others would be incidental to his motivation, and this time he might even receive praise for it - praise which he would no longer desire of feel he deserved. Killing Cersei would be the same as killing himself. Murder/suicide figuratively - if not literally.

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

That's a mystical interpretation, and one that presumes polytheism while it borrows from Abrahamic religions. So far this story has been wonderfully equivocal about the existence of gods, and the ethics of both religion and magic. It may stay that way. But it looks to me as if, at the least, Arya is the first (or only) of a new breed of the Faceless.

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Or there could be another possibility. Maybe Arya's refusal to subsume her identity is Not a Good Thing -- not the moral equivalent of Bran's servitude to something greater than himself, or of Jon's reclaiming his family and a place in the world. Arya's ability to shape-shift as Some One could be a sign that her soul has been poisoned. Maybe not forever; maybe there's an antidote: fellow-feeling, perhaps.

Oh my Pallas. Lots to chew on in that post. I particularly liked the musing on Water. What happens when Ice meets Fire...

Edited June 29, 2016 by Anothermi
forgot to address Edmure

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Jaime killing Cersei would not be poetic to him. He's only had her as the life raft that keeps him afloat in an otherwise meaningless, overly complicated life. Sure, he loved fighting (and winning) as much as the Hound and so many others, but the value he place on that was linked to the value it had for his sister. Brienne has seen him at his most vulnerable (literally and figuratively naked) and been there for him. But they are broken beings who recognized that in each other. Their mutual flaw. Brienne has a "code" - her oath to others - that keeps her going. Jaime had his oath to Cersei and she no longer needs it. 

I too was thinking that it feels like a set up for Jamie to become both Kingslayer and Queenslayer given the looks those two exchanged during the crowning ceremony. One thing struck me but I couldn't put it into words at the time... was Cersei's outfit. I thought during the trial preparations scenes her clothing looked..."odd"...but I couldn't put my finger on why it looked odd. Then when we saw what she'd done, and her walking to her own coronation, her outfit was so, so, masculine. That leather perforated fabric is something Tywin wore, IIRC, and I think many of the men in A Show have worn such leather work, at least those who are in the game of fighting. The steel armor shoulder pads, the chains swagged across from shoulder armor to shoulder armor...yes with feminine details, but very manly. Combine that with her mannish hair do now. When first we met Cersei, she was always mannish in terms of beauty, but feminine. She had long blond flowing hair, jewelry, gowns, etc. Now? She is all but a man. It's as if she's taken all the scorn, humiliation and degradation that men - Robert, Tywin, even Joffrey when he was at his pinnacle of crazy, the Sparrow, and the disappointment of Jamie - and she has taken all that accumulated hatred towards men, and turned herself into a man as much as she possible can. If you look at her outfit in E10, the way the shoulder plates are positioned gives her a weird long-necked appearance, the way the fabric cuts inwards along the steel. All I could think of was, man that's a lonnnng neck, perfect for beheading someday...a premonition perhaps?

Anyway, I guess this all led me to thinking that as anothermi says, she has now taken the highest place in the Seven Kingdoms, and she, Cersei Lannister, has taken the Iron Throne by herself, without the aid of Jamie, and perhaps in spite of or because of his absence at the time in KL. I think the glances between then in that crowning scene were him realizing that Tommen was dead and she must have had something to do with it, and her looking at him as if to say, "So what of it? You weren't here and something had to be done. Nobody was protecting me so I had to protect myself...Oh, and fuck you."  I really think she is done with Jamie now. And the repercussions of that are what will be so interesting to see next season. Will she allow him back to her chambers? Or will she try to have him killed? Will she reinstate him as Kingsguard, or will she send him away?  Or will he end up killing her once he realizes how far gone she is, insanity wise? As others have said, he's seen it before with The Mad King, and now with his own sister/lover, The Mad Queen...Jamie just cannot catch a break can he?

[Anothermi]

There is one more item of interest to me that arose from E10.

The Little Birds. When they were Varys "little birds" they just provided information.

Qyburn, in this episode, has started using them as a guerilla army. These are supposed to be children! We've now seen child "soldiers" added to the dangerous elements in play. (I did notice that although actual child actors were used in previous scenes, the one where they kill Paycelle seemed to be populated with older actors and at least one dwarf actor. I'm assuming legal restrictions on using child actors for that scene? Still, I believe we are supposed to accept that it was children who did the deed.)

I'm beginning to see why Qyburn was un-linked from the brotherhood of maesters. Will this development continue to be in play for the future? I fear Varys may fall victim to Qyburn's corruption of his Little Birds. <Noooooooo!>

Edited July 2, 2016 by Anothermi

[janjan]

2 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I fear Varys may fall victim to Qyburn's corruption of his Little Birds. <Noooooooo!>

No no no!!!!! Varys is my favorite character-- the best schemer, and the only one whose scheming is selfless. As he told Ned in the dungeon, "I serve the realm. Someone must."

[gingerella]

 anothermi, wow, that's another great point, you're on a roll my friend! I have always questioned Qyburn's affiliation to the Maester tradition because Maesters in this world appear to be above the fray and above reproach, they have thus far, with him as the one exception, been learned scholars. Yes Pycelle was a pervy asshole, but he appeared to know shit. Like, a lot of shit in fact. Qyburn seems like a renegade who was a Maester turned bad, who used his position to play Dr. Frankenstein, and who wanted to be more than "just" a Maester. The others seemed like attaining their Maester station was what they had strived to achieve, but not Qyburn. He's a bad seed...

I was afraid that Varys was in trouble when he went to Westeros, but as soon as we saw him in Dorne I felt like he was smarter than A Viewer could ever be on such matters!  That said, I'm with anothermi in the "I hope Varys' little birds don't turn on him and kill him..."  Because like Janjan he is one of, if not my favorite character in A Show. And yes anothermi, you are correct, in the past we only knew of the little birds as innocuous gatherers of information, but never as cold blooded killers. That said, I can see how Qyburn could pay them a wee bit and get them to do anything for him. The question is, do they hold any loyalty to Varys or not?  I get chills thinking about Varys' safety in this regard...Oy...just when the good guys were gaining steam coming out of S6, right?!

[Anothermi]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Maesters in this world appear to be above the fray and above reproach

Or.... in the case of those at the Citadel... above awareness (out of touch).

Despite the wealth of information that must be present in that gorgeous library, I've gotten the initial impression that the maesters at the Citadel have degenerated from providing the Kingdom with access to the knowledge of the country's history and all the secrets and skills of yore via the maesters, maester-pedias if you will,  to providing clerical functionaries.

Maesters Luwin (Winterfell)  and Aemon (Castle Black) appear to be of the old school that gave moral guidance as well as being maester-pedias. The new one assigned to (then) Dread!Winterfell seemed very green/inexperienced. <but then, no body expects the Ramsey Inquisition so he gets a bit of a pass for doing a less than standard job>

I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Citadel. From the first view we've got of it, it is a literal "ivory tower" <in my experience a term that is used for institutes of higher learning that are completely out of touch. Don't know if that term is still in common usage.>

Something I don't understand is why Maester Aemon didn't send them news that Commander Mormont was dead? I know there was chaos at that time, and the Watch was unofficially under Aliser Thorne's leadership (at least IIRC it was) but it seemed to me a short note to indicate the Wall had lost their leader would have been appropriate. No? I'm surprised the Citadel didn't know because:

1 - Aemon was still alive when news arrived of Mormont's death,

2 - if he was too sick, Sam knew how to send ravens and he was there as well,

3 - I got the impression, from Commander Mormont berating Sam for not sending a raven to warn the NW that they were being attacked by WW, that a command was not needed for certain messages to be sent.

4 - I remember more ravens being sent out to warn the rest of Westeros of the impending attack of the Wildlings - so it wasn't lack of ravens... or ability to send them.

Perhaps the lack of info received at the Citadel was an indication of systems breakdown during war. If it isn't addressed by higher-ups at the Citadel, because the reception brother was more bothered than alarmed, I'll be disappointed. Unless the maesters really have become completely out of touch I would imagine there to be some concern for this systems breakdown.

It's been a running joke that every raven missive of alarm sent by the Night's Watch is treated as crying "wolf" (no Stark intended) unless all Wall ravengrams have gotten shot out of the air?

Edited July 2, 2016 by Anothermi

[gingerella]

ATTENTION SPITBALL BRETHREN!!!

Janjan, DirewolfPup, Shadowlass, abcfsk, WhiteStumbler, please check you raven mail here for important re watch notice...