S06.E08: No One

[Athena]

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Episode Synopsis:

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While Jaime weighs his options, Cersei answers a request. Tyrion’s plans bear fruit. Arya faces a new test.

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Athena
Untagged synopsis

[90PercentGravity]

A lot of action happened off screen this episode. It seemed kind of deliberate. I was disappointed we didn't get to see the Blackfish battle. 

Glad Brienne made it out alive... and Pod.

Cersei has completely lost Tommen. Enjoy is next in line after him, anyway? Is it Margery?

[janjan]

Milk of the Puppy! YAY!!! Can pigshit be far behind?! Oh how I miss our Shimpy.

OK, so Arya was really stabbed, but she sure revived fast. During that too-long chase scene, she was quite athletic for a stabbed girl, doped up, no less. But at least, at last, we're done with the Oreo House. Good riddance. And Jaqen is either not all-seeing or else a liar when he says she's now No One. [Bad writing, methinks -- just to set up her announcement that she's Arya Stark of Winterfell.] She shouldda stabbed him.

Lord Edmure is no one. What a wuss.

I'm shipping Jamie and Brienne again. Sorry, Tormund.

Where is Varys going? A secret mission to Westeros. Huh? Come back, Varys. Our Queen needs you. Did Drogon leave Dario behind? He and the horde are a week away, Just when Dany needs them. Betcha Yara and Theon will save the day.

When the spectators made ample room for Cersei in the gallery, I could only think, "And they all moved away from me on the Group W bench."

I still don't get what Uncle Kevan is up to.

[gingerella]

Shame about Lady Crane...she reminded me of Catlyn.

I thought I saw a teensy smile when Arya Stark reclaimed her identity and told A Man she was going home. Now I am thinking the entire reason A Man took her in was to prepare her to go home and fulfill her destiny. He knew she would never surrender her identity to the Many Faced God, but in a way he owed her for sparing his life back in Harrenhell. I remember she was going to name A Man as one she wanted dead and she took it back after he was obviously upset about that. Giving Arya the coin and phrase to get her safe passage to Braavos was not the end game for paying her back, I think the end game was to prepare A Girl for what she was going to need to do down the road. After all, Jaquen knew how many people were on Arya's list back then, at least I think he knew. I am telling myself all of this because I would like to think that A Man had a shred of kindness and affection for A Girl, rather than being a cold assassin.  Though I have to say, I will miss the interior shots of th House of B&W, those candles made for quite the atmospheric treat, visually speaking. I did think the chase scene with A Bitch was way too much, she ran like the Terminator or something, it was just weird.

So no more trial by combat eh.  Awesome, I love that decree! It is a pussy way of resolving anything anyway...if only it happened before we lost our dear Oberyn, alas. but this frees up The Hound to do something else, which I quite like because I didn't want him getting squashed by Mountainstein. If he joins the BWoBs, that could be very interesting. And at least we were all on the right page about the guys from last week being not typical of what we know of the BWoBs. Yeah for small A Viewer's small victories...

Cersei is done for. No idea if this is the end of the road for her or what, but clearly she is being sacrificed for the Greater Good, and it couldn't happen to a nicer gal!  Tommen has wiped his hands of her,and If I remember correctly, Uncle Kevan has never liked Cersei so I imagine he is liking this whole thing. With Cersei and jAmie out of the way, Kevan is unemcumberd in trying to do what he wants, though if what he wants is not what the Sparrow wants, well...he ain't getting far.

I thought the fleet approaching Mereen was Theon and Yara, so that was confusing...and boring...ditto Dany getting air dropped on the roof.  As my grandfather used to say, "Dany, shit or get off the pot."

[Anothermi]

Things I am glad about this episode: <I was frequently clapping and jumping up and down from my seat>

- We got to see Lady Crane's version of Cersei's speech after the death of her 1st born. She put in Arya's in put about feeling angry. <word play of my own there>

- Arya was NOT engaging in an elaborate plot with Lady Crane, just seeking her out for help (LC being the only person who she might consider a "friend"). I'm glad because we Do. Not. Need. another necklace-gate style plot device. This one kept with the story narrative we know so I can still trust the writers even though there is no book. (fingers crossed behind my back and knocking on wood simultaneously)

- Brienne and Pod escaped and we didn't have to see the Blackfish die. Don't worry @90PercentGravity episode 9 is usually the big battle episode. The question is Which One? Winterfell? Mireen - where janjan's spitball about Yara & Theon could come into play?

- that the BWoB we know were NOT fine with the behavior of the rogue members.

-The little smile on Jaqen's face when Arya announced who she was and what she was going to do. Perhaps @Pallas spitball from last episode about him having other plans for her all along is a wall-sticker? Was it irony when he told her she was "no one" and she declared herself as someone? She wasn't that clear when he met her back when she was "a boy". 

New things:

Arya's curiosity about what's west of Westeros. We were once curious about that... and what is north of "north of the wall".

Does anyone remember what "old rumour" Cersei told Qyburn to have his little birds investigate? It sounds like it will be important, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

I enjoyed the awkward-times joke telling with Tyrion, Greyworm & Missandei. It doesn't have the scintillating repartee of Varys or Bronn but they're making progress.

Oh, and Jaime used his brain. He took Brienne's idea of Jaime getting Riverrun quickly, without bloodshed and figured out a more Lannisterian way of making it come to pass. He used Edmure's desire for family posterity (and Ed's general wimpish-ness) and threatened it. I don't remember Jaime being that... smart... before. He seems at peace (for lack of a better word) with his inability to feel compassion, although that's what I thought in Season One. Doubting a redemption arc for him, yet he is still likeable.

23 hours ago, janjan said:

Milk of the Puppy! YAY!!! Can pigshit be far behind?! Oh how I miss our Shimpy.

Not just M of the P, janjan, but a whole whack of call backs to stuff / shtick from past seasons:

1-Milk of the Puppy

2-the reappearance of the "good" BWoB

3-the Hound's wry (dry?) wit returning. "Can't you do better than that? You're shit at dying". And I guess the return of the Hound. He must have left his Sandor self with the body of Ian McShane. I noticed that his broken leg isn't bothering him any more. Must be a miracle. (/sarcasm)

4-Varys prescient warning to Tyrion about making a pact with fanatics harkens back to Cersei's own pact with the High Sparrow. Hoping Tyrion's works out better for him than Cersei's did for her.

5-Cersei treating Lancel with her old, familiar, contempt (albeit due to Mountainstein's presence - who BTW, appears to have red eyes now. At least they are not blue, but are they significant to the story line? Annnd on second look they may just be blood shot.)

6-Brienne & Jaime re-unite... and still have that mutual respect bond - or what ever it is - and it appeared that she cares more deeply about it than he does. They could be destined to kill each other. Although: Not Today.  

7-Pod and Bronn re-uniting! Only one missing was the Imp. Good times! And we got reference to Pod's "magic cock".

8-the Blackfish confirming that Sansa is "exactly like her mother". (which we knew already, but it's good to have a family member confirm it)

9-the Jackass, the Honeycomb & the brothel story makes a re-appearance, and still doesn't get told. :-(

10-Blackfish lamenting to Brienne that he hadn't fought for years and was about to make a fool of himself before he died. Harks back to Davos apologizing in advance for his crappy swordsmanship to the loyal Night's Watch (before Jon resurrected).

Edited June 14, 2016 by Anothermi
spelling of character names

[ChocButterfly]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

I did think the chase scene with A Bitch was way too much, she ran like the Terminator or something, it was just weird.

Hey, that's exactly what I thought, Terminator!! And that stupid smirk on her face, I'm glad she's dead. I didn't like that plot too much, though. I mean, we all knew Arya was going to make it, so they could have wrapped it in one episode and be done with it. I did like her final words to Jaquen, though.

Also didn't like the part about Riverrun. I mean, they were good scenes, I just hate it when the bad guys keep winning and the good guys get slaughtered! I don't fault the Blackfish for not going to Sansa's aid. The guy was busy defending his house, his lands and how could he just abandon everything he had fought for all this time to go get slaughtered defending someone else's land, even if it was his nieces's?

I also don't fault Edmure for his choice. Sure, the guy is a wimp (although he wasn't that wimpish in his scenes with Jaimie!). But he has been a prisoner for a year or more!! Who knows wha he has endured? Plus, lets remember Riverrun started being attacked because of Robb's war. And the, the poor guy had to marry a Frey, again because of Robb's fault! In addition, what was he suposed to do here? He knew there was no way the Blackfish would win this, he knew that his men would be slaughtered and the castle lost either way. And then, he'd still be a prisoner for eternity, or get killed. This way, his men get to live, and maybe if Jaimie follows his word, Edmure can have some sort of decent live. He did tht right thing in my book, not in theBlackfish's though!! 

Oh, RIP The Blackfish. I liked him, so of course he had to die.

For all of those who still think Jaimie can be redeemed....his conversation with Edmure explained everything I have been saying about this guy. Edmure was so right! I bet Jaimie even thinks he's not that bad, but deep down inside he knows his rotten! 

Quote

Oh, and Jaime used his brain. He took Brienne's idea of Jaime getting Riverrun quickly, without bloodshed and figured out a more Lannisterian way of making it come to pass. He used Edmure's desire for family posterity (and Ed's general wimpish-ness) and threatened it. I don't remember Jaime being that... smart... before. He seems at peace (for lack of a better word) with his inability to feel compassion, although that's what I thought in Season One. Doubting a redemption arc for him, yet he is still likeable.

This ^^^^

I do think a Show will try to redeem Jaimie at the end, with one final act of sacrifice. Many will buy it, not me. IT takes more than one good deed, like I said, I need to see contrition and remorse, he doesn't have it in him. 

Cersei is fucked! Hehe! Tommen really doesn't care about his mom anymore, no? And that Sparrow is smart, he knew there was no way anyone could beat the Mountain. Although, I agree with him, Trial By Combat is a corrupt and  stupid way of imparting justice. Rich people can hire the best to fight for them, and even if you do your own fight, what does being strong have to do with being innocent?

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Does anyone remember what "old rumour" Cersei told Qyburn to have his little birds investigate? It sounds like it will be important, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

I don't remember anything, but I have my theory. I think she's heard about all the Pig Shit still under King's Landing...and I think she's going to use it. Hell, it may be Cersei who finally burns KL to the ground, not Dany, as we have thought. Right now she's desperate, she doesn't have anyone on her side, not even her own son. She hates the people, too, not only the Sparrows. She's crazy enough to light the whole city on fire. Plus, she has a nack for saying she'll "burn her enemies to the ground" if she has to. Incidentally, Jaimie mentioned it as well to Edmure. Hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe that'll be Jaimie last act of redemption, he'll kill  Cersei to prevent her from burning the city. Either way, Tommen will die, we know that. 

Poor Missandei and Grey Worm! Just when they start learning to chill, drink and joke they get attack by the Masters! I understand Gery Worm's frustration with Tyrion, but lets face it, the Masters were going to attack wether Tyrion had tried to negotiate with them or not. Actually, I think Tyrion's attempt at negotiation delayed the attack. But it was naive on Tyrion's part, the masters had no reason to make a deal. They had the upper hand, Dany was gone and so were the dragons. Now, that she's back, they'd wish they had taken the deal.That Drogon sure has good timing!

[DirewolfPup]

So much happened off screen. I wanted to see Arya kill A Bitch. We knew she'd win when she got Needle and put the candle out. Therefore, the suspense wasn't really there when Jaquen did the eternal walk to the hall of faces. Also, how do they get to the faces near the top of the column. Why was there an open spot in prime real estate (in arm's reach in the center of the hall). Nit picks, but I find silly things like this annoying.

I could have done with about 50% of the Jamie and Edamure chatting. I cared so little for Ed before, and it was already well established that he was a ninny and about as smart as a bag of rocks.

[DirewolfPup]

6 minutes ago, ChocButterfly said:

I don't remember anything, but I have my theory. I think she's heard about all the Pig Shit still under King's Landing...and I think she's going to use it. Hell, it may be Cersei who finally burns KL to the ground, not Dany, as we have thought. Right now she's desperate, she doesn't have anyone on her side, not even her own son. She hates the people, too, not only the Sparrows. She's crazy enough to light the whole city on fire. Plus, she has a nack for saying she'll "burn her enemies to the ground" if she has to. Incidentally, Jaimie mentioned it as well to Edmure. Hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe that'll be Jaimie last act of redemption, he'll kill  Cersei to prevent her from burning the city. Either way, Tommen will die, we know that. 

I really like this spitball. Cersei is getting desperate. Bran saw the wildfire again. Could it be a WW prevention tool or just a reminder of it's destruction before someone (stupid) uses it? In Bran's vision, the wildfire was raging in the underground tunnels of a city that we presume to be King's Landing. Did this happen in the past or is it a vision of the future? What I mean is, I thought the Mad King wanted to set them off, but couldn't because he was stabbed by Jamie. So setting off the wildfire under the city never actually happened. This would mean that Bran's vision is the future.

[janjan]

Hmmm. About Jaqen. It's true he had an approving little smile when Arya announced that she was Arya Stark, like maybe that was his plan all along. Considering that he first appeared in S1 (unidentified in the cage-cart on the way to the Wall from KL), that's quite a long-term plan. What could go wrong. But I guess it's possible. Still, I wish she had stabbed him.

So now I wonder if the letter we saw Sansa write was to the Blackfish, not to LF.  I forget whether we saw her write it before or after Brienne left on her mission to Riverrun.

RIP Blackfish. He was the next to last surviving member of the older generation. Who wouldda thunk Walder Frey would outline them all.

I take back my shipping of Jamie and Brienne, considering his speech to Edmure about how much he still loves Cersei.

[ChocButterfly]

1 hour ago, janjan said:

So now I wonder if the letter we saw Sansa write was to the Blackfish, not to LF.  I forget whether we saw her write it before or after Brienne left on her mission to Riverrun.

It was after Brienne left, so it was probably to Littlefinger.

I'm also glad that Thoros and Bedric aren't still completely corrupt and they were actually imparting justice to those septon killers. Bedric has such a soothing voice, I really like it! He could be the theatre's narrator in Westeros.

Quote

3-the Hound's wry (dry?) wit returning. "Can't you do better than that? You're shit at dying". And I guess the return of the Hound. He must have left his Sandor self with the body of Ian McShane. I noticed that his broken leg isn't bothering him any more. Must be a miracle. (/sarcasm)

And don't forget his chicken reference!! I hope Kentucky Fried Hound noticed it. Where is him/her? 

I also wonder what is the deal with the Brotherhood without Banners and the Hound's story? I mean, where do they fit in the plot, why are they reapering now? Maybe they'll come in handy when we need another character resurrected. Oh, maybe Jon will die in the battle for Winterfell and he will be brought back again from the dead! Which reminds me of this:

Quote

Don't worry @90PERCENTGRAVITY episode 9 is usually the big battle episode. The question is Which One? Winterfell? Mireen - where janjan's spitball about Yara & Theon could come into play?

Oh, yes, we should have a battle next episode!!! I'm sure it will be the North, cause I don't think they'll show a long battle in Mereen. It's not really that important, Dany will come with her Dothraki horde and dragons and wipe them all while screaming how she will take what's her with Fire and Blood! I love it when she gets her crazy on! I also thought those ships at Mereen were the Iron Fleet. I think they will come in handy soon.

In the North I have no idea who will win. It should be Jon, of course, Ramsey should be killed this season, right...RIGHT??!! But who the fuck knows. Although, I think it will play out like with the Wildlings, they'll start loosing until LF comes with the Knights of the Vale and saves the day. We've had that outcome twice now, first with the Tyrell's army in Blackwater and then with Stannis at the Wall. Is starting to get tiresome. But I'm fine as long as we get rid of Ramsey.This. Fucking. Season. Sorry for the cursing, Ramsey deserves them.

Edited June 13, 2016 by ChocButterfly

[Llywela]

I can't bring myself to hate Edmure the way so many here do - I like Tobias Menzies too much. And Edmure in this episode served as a reminder that almost no one in this story is either all bad or all good. They are just people, the sum total of a myriad of strengths and weaknesses - some leaning more in one direction than the other! Edmure is weak and always has been, but he made a lot of very good points to Jaime, spoken with a lot more dignity than I'd have expected of him. He didn't crack until his supposed child was threatened (one shot and pregnant? Really? That's soap opera territory!). But then he gave in completely, damn it - although, that said, he also prevented what would have been terrible loss of life, and there's been too much of that in this show already - but then again, it means the Freys have won this round, again, dammit!

Also: I'm not seeing redemption for Jaime. I think he has days where he'd quite like to be a better person - the person Brienne believes he could be - but he just doesn't have what it takes to actually be a better person. Or rather, he doesn't want it enough to give up who he already is. He likes his amorality more than he likes the idea of being that better person he knows he should want to be! Or something like that. And of course he also loves his sister in too much of an unhealthy way to give up for the sake of being a better person.

I'd so hoped someone would find a way of getting that Tully army north to Sansa and Jon, but apparently it is not to be. It's not like they're going to have anything better to do! What's Jaime going to do with them? Hang them all as traitors? Lock them in the dungeons and then pay to feed them? Turn them out and tell them to go home and become farmers? Such a waste.

I'm stumped as to what the Faceless Warriors were all about these last two seasons. I mean, I get that Arya was learning stuff, supposedly - and while she may not have learned basic caution, clearly her fight training while blind came in handy after all - it's the Faceless Warriors themselves that aren't making sense to me. Possibly because there are apparently only two of them - and one of those is now dead! They really could have done with being fleshed out a bit more, and I mean that quite literally - we needed to see more people to believe in them as an actual order. Unless there really is only one of them and he's faking the rest? I mean, we did see one other - the guy who answered the door when Arya first arrived, and turned her away. Although I kinda thought maybe he was Jaqen all along, using a different face. Or maybe the Jaqen we've been seeing isn't the same guy Arya first met, just someone else (even multiple someones) using the same face? But then, when she left him in this episode it seemed like he was definitely the same guy - and it seemed like he was pleased with this outcome. I just don't understand his game or what their angle is all about in all this.

[Anothermi]

8 minutes ago, janjan said:

So now I wonder if the letter we saw Sansa write was to the Blackfish, not to LF.  I forget whether we saw her write it before or after Brienne left on her mission to Riverrun.

I think the possibility of Sansa's ravengram being sent to Littlefinger is still very likely. What we saw at Castle Black was Sansa talking with Brienne about sending her to convince Blackfish to come to her aid. They didn't leave until the next day. It has been shown to be protocol, when sending an envoy in lieu of a personal visit, to verify their mission in writing. There was no need for a scene of Sansa writing that. What we saw on her face, with her ravengram, was a lot of conflict about what she was about to do. 

16 minutes ago, janjan said:

RIP Blackfish. He was the next to last surviving member of the older generation. Who wouldda thunk Walder Frey would outline them all.

Unfortunately we've been given plenty of signs that this would be the case. He never leaves the Twins! <sad-angry face> Unless a family member kills him? <hopeful face>

5 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

I don't remember anything, but I have my theory. I think she's heard about all the Pig Shit still under King's Landing...and I think she's going to use it. Hell, it may be Cersei who finally burns KL to the ground, not Dany, as we have thought.

Cersei didn't just hear about the pots of wildfire (pigshit!), she was the one who commissioned them! We learned about them back in Season 2 when Tyrion was preparing for the battle of Blackwater. He had them loaded onto ships and anchored in the harbour. Then we saw him give the order for Bronn to light them by sending a flaming arrow at them from shore. (an action later mirrored by the Blackfish having to take over from Edmure to set Hoster Tully's funeral boat afire) I think we were to believe these were the Mad King's stash (burn them all!) and that Tyrion used it all. But, as I've posted before, that doesn't mean they can't make - or haven't been making more nor does it negate...

6 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Hell, it may be Cersei who finally burns KL to the ground, not Dany, as we have thought. Right now she's desperate, she doesn't have anyone on her side, not even her own son. She hates the people, too, not only the Sparrows. She's crazy enough to light the whole city on fire. Plus, she has a nack for saying she'll "burn her enemies to the ground" if she has to. Incidentally, Jaimie mentioned it as well to Edmure. Hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe that'll be Jaimie last act of redemption, he'll kill  Cersei to prevent her from burning the city. Either way, Tommen will die, we know that. 

We've seen Cersei be prepared to kill Tommen before, to save him from a possibly worse fate, during the battle of Blackwater. (another milk of the puppy call back) I spitball that she WILL be the one that causes his death, but not by her own intention. Salt on the wound that is now her existence.

And continuing on the topic of what-we've-seen-before-we-will-see-again:

While researching the info above I noted that as far back as Season 2 Tyrion has been the person blamed by "the people" for all the evil done by member's of his family. At that point it was all of Joffery's misdeeds as overheard by Tyrion & Bronn on the return from seeing Myrcella off to Dorne. We have been reminded of this the last couple of episodes in Braavos with the actors depicting him as the overall villain. I don't think this is just co-incidence. I fear Tyrion will not meet a good end... and I will cry.

[Llywela]

We were also reminded in this episode that Sansa is popularly believed to have been Tyrion's conspirator in the plot to kill poor innocent King Joffrey, something that may yet come back to haunt her. Which in turn reminds me that the true conspirators have so far got away with it scott free - but could it yet come back to haunt them, as well? So many wheels within wheels. I have to keep reminding myself that, as with most book adaptations, this show can only ever really give us potted highlights of the full story - to get the full detail, I'd have to read the books, which I currently have no interest in doing (and Poldark has taught me that I'd only end up frustrated if I did). So I'll just have to continue scratching my head over the potted highlights and hoping we're getting as much information as we need!

[Anothermi]

Potted highlights! Great description, Llywela. I also agree about not choosing to read a book before seeing the adaptation - if at all possible. It never ends well (with a few exceptions). I am, however, feeling sympathy for those bookreaders who are in the position of not wanting to continue watching the show so as not to be spoiled for the plot of the next book(s). They've become our Spitball Wall brethren - of sorts - albeit inhabiting a different holdout on the Wall. It's got to be as hard (or harder) for them to avoid book spoilers as it is for us to avoid show spoilers.

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, janjan said:

Considering that he first appeared in S1 (unidentified in the cage-cart on the way to the Wall from KL), that's quite a long-term plan. What could go wrong. But I guess it's possible.

Janjan, I wouldn't say that was a long term plan from that point in time because he had not yet really interacted with Arya.  It was only at Harrenhell that the two began talking and from that point, I think there could have been some sort of awakening in A Man that this girl was not like other girls.

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

I mean, we did see one other - the guy who answered the door when Arya first arrived, and turned her away. Although I kinda thought maybe he was Jaqen all along, using a different face.

Llywela, that guy was Jaquen, remember how finally he came outside to Arya on the steps, and he removed his "face" to reveal Jaquen's (and we all cheered in our couch seats, thinking this was going to be a most excellent adventure for Arya)? I took that to mean it was indeed him all along.

1 hour ago, ChocButterfly said:

I'm fine as long as we get rid of Ramsey.This. Fucking. Season.

Choc, from your lips to A Show's ears. I am sick to death of that character. To the point where I question the story telling ability when it continues to beat a dead horse to that extent. We.Get.It. Move the fuck on now showrunners, mmkay?

As for the usual E9 battle, it really has to be the battle for Winterfell because that is the most pressing issue right now. We're not even sure if it's the Masters in Mereen, but we sure as hell know that WWs are on the loose with their zombonis, and to me, that makes next weeks battle at Winterfell, not at Mereen.  Though I am feeling sick if it is because in order for A Viewer to continue viewing, she needs A Show to allow the good guys to win that battle.

[janjan]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

battle at Winterfell, not at Mereen.  Though I am feeling sick if it is because in order for A Viewer to continue viewing, she needs A Show to allow the good guys to win that battle.

Indeed. Imagine what would happen if the Good Guys lose. Most would be dead, and the few survivors would be cowering in some hole somewhere when the WWs sweep inexorably through, turning the Boltons into wights, moving on south with no opposition, slurping up Riverrun (Nooo!) and the Twins (Yeah!), and swooping down on KL and maybe even Dorne. Would anyone even want to watch that show? Except to see Big Bird and the Stupid Snakes get theirs.

[Llywela]

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Llywela, that guy was Jaquen, remember how finally he came outside to Arya on the steps, and he removed his "face" to reveal Jaquen's (and we all cheered in our couch seats, thinking this was going to be a most excellent adventure for Arya)? I took that to mean it was indeed him all along.

But since the Faceless Warriors can take other appearances, in theory how can anyone ever be sure that who they are talking to is who they are actually talking to? For all we (or Arya) know, there could be 50 different guys all taking turns at wearing the same face. When Arya was on the run, that was what should have been scary - knowing that these face-changers could be anyone in the crowd, meaning that no one was safe. But of course, it was Jaqen all along, because apparently there are no other Faceless Warriors after all, just him on his lonesome, training girls into no one and then turning them on one another. Which kind of downgrades the threat of his order a little, if it really is so small. I just really wish we'd seen more sign of life than two solitary people inhabiting that huge temple! The whole place was a disappointment, in the end.

[gingerella]

I guess I just take what I am being shown from A Show at face value...hehe...didja see what I just did there, hehe...anyhoo, I think it was Jaquen then and now. The personality is consistent. 

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

But of course, it was Jaqen all along, because apparently there are no other Faceless Warriors after all, just him on his lonesome, training girls into no one and then turning them on one another.

I'm sure we saw some others back when Arya started her apprenticeship. I found a scene in S05E02 where 2 robed adults came in and took away the man Jaqen had just given a drink from the pool in the middle of the great room. (he died of course, that was what he came for)

Also in that scene... Arya asked which (sculpture on the wall) portrayed the Many Faced God. Jaqen replied "There is only one god. A girl knows his name... and all men know his gift." I didn't know what he was referring to before, but now, given that it is Braavos, I think he is referring to the "one god" Syrio taught Arya about: Death.

And what did Syrio teach Arya to say to Death? Not Today. And that is what she did this episode. The spitball that Syrio became Jaqen seems quite reasonable to me in light of the above. We didn't see Syrio die. He knew that Arya would need more skills than she had learned to that point just to survive, and next thing? Jaqen, coincidentally, is on the same trek north with her. I know others have lobbed this spit ball before, but it is just making sense to me now. It certainly explains the small smile Jaqen allows himself as Arya leaves. Jaqen may never be revealed to be Syrio, but I'll always believe that he is.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Anothermi

[KungFuBunny]

The chase scene with Arya and the Bitch reminded me of the Jason Bourne chase thru alleys and rooftops. Glad she's alive.

I'm still confused by the House of Black and White. Is this a religion or are these hired assassins? What was the fee paid to kill Lady Crane? It couldn't have been that much...Arya should have used her bags of coins and given it to The Man to kill the Bitch. When Jacquen first met Arya in Harrendall who was he sent there to kill? I don't think he was there for a little R&R.

Sansa's ravenmail...could it be to crazy cousin Robin Arryn? Is Sansa smart enough to do this...take a chance that Littlefinger doesn't intercept the letter or word it in a way that Littlefingers hands are tied.

Is the Blackfish really dead? We only have word of a soldier telling Jaime. Maybe he is off to Winterfell with a group of men who don't want to stick around with Edmure.

Will Danerys somehow defeat the Masters armada and use those ships to sail to Westeros?

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

The chase scene with Arya and the Bitch reminded me of the Jason Bourne chase thru alleys and rooftops. Glad she's alive.

I'm still confused by the House of Black and White. Is this a religion or are these hired assassins? What was the fee paid to kill Lady Crane? It couldn't have been that much...Arya should have used her bags of coins and given it to The Man to kill the Bitch. When Jacquen first met Arya in Harrendall who was he sent there to kill? I don't think he was there for a little R&R.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say before. We've had two full seasons at the House of Black and White and I still don't understand how it works, what its purpose is, who is in charge, etc. Is Jaqen just a flunky or is he in charge? He's come across both ways, at various times in the show. Is he answerable to someone else? What are their aims? How many of them are there? I dunno - I just feel like with most of the institutions in the show, we've gained at least a reasonable impression of how they work, but the world-building hasn't worked with this one. I'm just glad Arya is away from them at last! I hope she can hook up with one of her siblings again somehow - if there's one thing this show has taught us, it's that families are at their strongest when they are united.

[ChocButterfly]

3 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I'm still confused by the House of Black and White. Is this a religion or are these hired assassins? What was the fee paid to kill Lady Crane? It couldn't have been that much...Arya should have used her bags of coins and given it to The Man to kill the Bitch. When Jacquen first met Arya in Harrendall who was he sent there to kill? I don't think he was there for a little R&R.

Ha! Good questions! Like an aspiring actress would have the money to hire them to kill Lady Crane. Plus, it's true, and I hadn't thought about it, Arya could have made a counter offer for A Bitch's life. And this is my main problem with the stupid Faceless Men, they don't serve any god at all, the serve the highest bidder. If they'd really believe in a God of Death they'd know that all men must die on their own time. The moment you start killing people for money, then it's really not fate or a god's will, is it? Or does their god only serve rich people?

And the other question, of course, what was Jaqen doing in Westeros? I don't think we'll ever get an answer to that, I don't think it matters. And I don't believe that it was all a complicated plant to help Arya, either. He has shown not to be as benevolent as we thought. He met her and he thought she'd be a good candidate for his order, which, she was in fact. Just things didn't turned the way he expected, but it's not a big deal  for him.

Quote

Sansa's ravenmail...could it be to crazy cousin Robin Arryn? Is Sansa smart enough to do this...take a chance that Littlefinger doesn't intercept the letter or word it in a way that Littlefingers hands are tied.

Nah, Sansa knows Robyn, she knows he's a stupid little shit that wouldn't do anything on his own. He knows LF calls the shots himself in the Vale. The raven was for him.

Quote

Cersei didn't just hear about the pots of wildfire (pigshit!), she was the one who commissioned them! We learned about them back in Season 2 when Tyrion was preparing for the battle of Blackwater.

Oh, it was Cersei? I don't remeber that, but I trust your word. So if this is the case, then I have no idea to what rumors Cersei refers to! Maybe it has to do with Varys coming to Westeros? She'll now want to unite with the Dragon Queen, since she has no other ally left in the whole 7 Kingdoms? I don't see Cersei as one capable of long term plans and alliances, she doesn't do well team work, plus she needs a way out like right now. So, I'm out of speculations about these rumors. I still do think she's capable of burning King's Landing and that is the most probable way out for her at the moment. That's probably for next season, though, the Burning of King's Landing!! Yay!

[janjan]

39 minutes ago, ChocButterfly said:

I still do think [Cersei's] capable of burning King's Landing and that is the most probable way out for her at the moment. That's probably for next season, though, the Burning of King's Landing!! Yay!

Remember Dany's vision that the magic guy showed her to get her to stay in the Greatest City That Ever Was or Will Be (urp! I forget everyone's name there except Ducksauce). The KL throne room was burnt to a crisp.

[gingerella]

9 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Arya asked which (sculpture on the wall) portrayed the Many Faced God. Jaqen replied "There is only one god. A girl knows his name... and all men know his gift." I didn't know what he was referring to before, but now, given that it is Braavos, I think he is referring to the "one god" Syrio taught Arya about: Death.

And what did Syrio teach Arya to say to Death? Not Today. And that is what she did this episode. The spitball that Syrio became Jaqen seems quite reasonable to me in light of the above. We didn't see Syrio die. He knew that Arya would need more skills than she had learned to that point just to survive, and next thing? Jaqen, coincidentally, is on the same trek north with her. I know others have lobbed this spit ball before, but it is just making sense to me now. It certainly explains the small smile Jaqen allows himself as Arya leaves. Jaqen may never be revealed to be Syrio, but I'll always believe that he is.

Whoa, this is why I love you guys, this makes so much sense to me now, seven blessings to you anothermi!  I don't know if I believe it fully, but I see how this could happen. Though I also think A Show would have let us know it was Syrio, don't you? That's too big a secret to just let slip past A Viewer I think. But I could see it being in the books and the showrunners not wanting to unpack that storyline in favor of others...which brings me to a gripe about A Show but I don't know which thread to put it in...grrrrrr...

[Pallas]

On 6/12/2016 at 11:05 PM, 90PercentGravity said:

Cersei has completely lost Tommen. Enjoy is next in line after him, anyway? Is it Margery?

The line of succession would reach back to Robert's cousins. We know -- I think from The Ponderous Tome? -- that Robert was related to the Targareyns. How droll if, when sweet Tommen dies, Dany became the Baratheon as well as Targareyn heir.  "I will take and take what's mine!"

On 6/12/2016 at 11:45 PM, janjan said:

I still don't get what Uncle Kevan is up to.

Kevan grew up as Tywin's younger brother. Can you imagine? And the son of a principled but weak man, according to Tywin. Kevan may have served but detested Tywin, and despised his shameful twins: (1) Cersei, the Lannister Queen who bore the Seven Kingdoms three bastards, including the disaster that was Joffrey, and (2) the father of those bastards, the Lannister heir who ran away to join the King's Guard, and become the Kingslayer. But Kevan may regard Tommen as harmless and malleable, and be happy enough to let Tommen disown his parents, and eventually grow disenchanted with the Sparrow, too. Kevan has his and the Tyrell armies ready for that day.

On 6/13/2016 at 3:52 AM, gingerella said:

Now I am thinking the entire reason A Man took her in was to prepare her to go home and fulfill her destiny.

I agree. Sorry, A Bitch, but A Man used you to train A Girl how to defeat you, despite your greater age, strength and skills. After he taught Arya who she was, and how her heart and the world are not black and white.

On 6/13/2016 at 3:52 AM, gingerella said:

I did think the chase scene with A Bitch was way too much, she ran like the Terminator or something, it was just weird.

I think that was A Show's way of hinting at how J'aqen zoomed around Harrenhall, offing Lannister minions at Arya's bidding. To quote Mr. Knightley: It was badly done, A Show.  

On 6/13/2016 at 6:02 AM, Anothermi said:

Does anyone remember what "old rumour" Cersei told Qyburn to have his little birds investigate? It sounds like it will be important, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

I don't think we know. I'm guessing, something scandalous about the Sparrow? The whereabouts of The Hound? OH!, how about, Varys's Magician in a Box? Qyborn inherited Varys's lair: Varys may havehidden the box well, but after all this time? And we've just been reminded of the Magician's existence...But Qyborn's reply, "More...much more," was the most obvious line A Show ever scripted.

On 6/13/2016 at 9:27 AM, ChocButterfly said:

For all of those who still think Jaimie can be redeemed....his conversation with Edmure explained everything I have been saying about this guy. Edmure was so right! I bet Jaimie even thinks he's not that bad, but deep down inside he knows his rotten! 

That may well be true, Choc. Kudos to you for repeatedly saying -- patiently, firmly and powerfully -- that Jaime will not be redeemed, by his own lack of choice. To Edmure he was very staunch in defense of his wicked ways. To me he sounded like someone who, in his heart, knows a love is lost but is trying to erase the handwriting on the wall with his own words. And in the end, those words convinced Edmure to cooperate. But you've pointed out, all along, that Jaime lacks the moral core he'd need to feel remorse and atone, and -- as you and Anothermi have said -- that all he has in him is one big sacrificial gesture. One more kingslaying.   

On 6/13/2016 at 3:50 PM, Llywela said:

Also: I'm not seeing redemption for Jaime. I think he has days where he'd quite like to be a better person - the person Brienne believes he could be - but he just doesn't have what it takes to actually be a better person. Or rather, he doesn't want it enough to give up who he already is. He likes his amorality more than he likes the idea of being that better person he knows he should want to be!

Yes.  And as a characterization, developed over the course of the saga, it rings true to life. Tywin was right about one thing: Jaime did care too much about what people thought of him. He allowed other people to define him as the Kingslayer, and also, found it an easier part to play than heir to Casterly Rock, or any more responsible and principled role. It was easier for him to preserve Cersei as his great love, than to be a lover, husband or father.  

On 6/14/2016 at 8:51 AM, Llywela said:

I just feel like with most of the institutions in the show, we've gained at least a reasonable impression of how they work, but the world-building hasn't worked with this one.

Sadly true. J'aqen's speech where he sets out the history of the Order to Arya was labored and flung in there, very late, like sugar to leaven the salt in a soup. The speech needed some unplugged power points, maybe in the form of bits of business; it probably needed to be not one speech but several remarks, over the course of the two years. Of course it would make sense if what was once a grand and noble order had degenerated, like nearly every other institution we've encountered on this world. Another wheel to be broken. 

J'aqen to Arya is a little like Jaime to Brienne. Someone with whom she traveled, with whom she was imprisoned, who rescued her from her captors, who championed her mission or (very indirectly) helped her find it again, and who gave her his sword or left hers where it was, knowing "it will always be yours." 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Pallas
Spelling, and because Choc was right.