S03.E12: There's Got to be a Morning After Pill

[Lisin]

From IMDB: "After learning Logan had slept with Madison, the girl Veronica holds responsible for her rape, Veronica tries to deal with it, even if that means NO SLEEP. Meanwhile, Tim Foyle's girlfriend asks Veronica for help to find who gave her a pill that aborted her fetus. Also, Veronica asks Weevil for a favor- a one that might just take him back to his old days."

Look, I get that Veronica is mad specifically because it's Madison, and I get that she blames Madison for her rape, but look Dick's the one who dosed the drink, he's also the one who shoved Beaver into the room with sleeping Veronica, Madison is guilty of being a bitch but really all she knowingly did was spit in a drink and give it to Veronica, so yeah she's gross and awful but she's not the one who raped you Veronica, and she's not even the one who spiked the punch. Not that any of that matters, but I just had to put it out there. She's awful and I understand the hate for her but I don't fully understand how Veronica has always been kind of OK with Dick, I mean I suppose it's because he's such a moron? He's like a big dumb dog who doesn't know any better? I don't know. 

The RU-486 story is so upsetting and also so full of holes I can't take it. BUT I like the anger that Keith and Veronica share about the jerks who send the picture of Veronica leaving the clinic. I like that he's immediately like "Do you have something you need to talk about?" but not in an angry way at all. I love their relationship when it's clicking. Such a great dad. 

[clemmyb]

Look, I get that Veronica is mad specifically because it's Madison, and I get that she blames Madison for her rape, but look Dick's the one who dosed the drink, he's also the one who shoved Beaver into the room with sleeping Veronica, Madison is guilty of being a bitch but really all she knowingly did was spit in a drink and give it to Veronica, so yeah she's gross and awful but she's not the one who raped you Veronica, and she's not even the one who spiked the punch. Not that any of that matters, but I just had to put it out there. She's awful and I understand the hate for her but I don't fully understand how Veronica has always been kind of OK with Dick, I mean I suppose it's because he's such a moron? He's like a big dumb dog who doesn't know any better? I don't know. 

This is kind of what I was trying to allude to in the previous episode's post, but you're spot on here.  I've never been able to reconcile what it is about Madison that makes her so much worse than Dick, but I have to believe part of it is a double-standard?  I'm generalizing here, but there are girls who will always come down harsher on other girls than on the dudes who are also complicit.  

There's also the argument that Dick is so completely stupid that he's harmless whereas Madison is sort of poisonous?  I'm not sure.  Something about Madison's face and voice always makes me go a little ragey, so I'm not exactly unbiased, either.

ANYWAY, the episode at hand! I've always found the mystery in this one to be a particular brand of awful, because it's so horrifying that anyone could do that to another person, let alone their supposed best friend.  But yes, it is full of holes.  Also, the religious pamphlet place?  Gives me the creeps every time.

[halgia]

Yeah, it is interesting how Dick's actions are a million times worse than Madison's but Madison is pure evil while Dick is just kind of adorable.

Hester and Nancy Drew as names, huh?

Really liked Veronica's hissy fit to get let into the office, also.

The mystery as a whole is obviously real upsetting. What an awful friend.

[Carrie Ann]

It seemed like they wanted Logan to have done something blatantly awful, like cheat on Veronica, but then couldn't bring themselves to do that kind of damage to his character, so instead they had him sleep with Madison and then had Veronica overreact about it. It just doesn't ring true.

I totally agree that Logan, Duncan, and Dick were all WAY more at fault for what happened to Veronica that night than Madison was. So maybe this is just misplaced anger at them, or at Cassidy, or about the rape in general (which we really never saw her address, post-S2 finale). It's easy to hate Madison. And yeah, I can imagine needing a break from my boyfriend if I found out he slept with my mortal enemy recently, but "never" forgiving him? It doesn't make sense.

Oh well, I take that overreaction as another sign that Veronica and Logan aren't at the right place individually to be together at this stage.

[Lisin]

I mean I suppose that in High School everyone had those "enemies" who were just terrible to you overall and I get Veronica hating Madison, I just kind of don't think that at this point she should? Like she should realize that Madison is just a terrible miserable person who is clearly doing everything in her power to upset Veronica and so Veronica reacting to it is playing into her hands. I want Veronica to be more evolved at this point. I mean I am glad that they made Veronica mad about the person Logan slept with and not the fact that he slept with someone because I couldn't deal with a "We Were On A BREAK" arc here so I suppose this is better? I just, I wish Veronica were more clear about just hating Madison because she's all around awful and not because she "caused the rape" because Beaver caused the rape, not anyone else, yes everyone else did terrible things and that piled up but Beaver RAPED Veronica, no one else did. And again I say DICK DRUGGED THE DRINK! He pushed Beaver into the room! But Veronica is totally fine with him LIVING with Logan... I just don't understand. 

[Jediknight]

 

I totally agree that Logan, Duncan, and Dick were all WAY more at fault for what happened to Veronica that night than Madison was.

I don't think Duncan is at fault for the rape.  When he saw Veronica, he tried to help her.  He pulled the people off that were doing body shots off of her.  He was also drugged, by Logan.  Duncan wasn't at fault for what happened, because he obviously didn't have all his faculties after he pulled everyone off of Veronica.  But yeah Madison, Duncan, Carrie, and Meg are the only ones that Veronica spoke to about that party, that were innocent in everything.  Madison was the intended victim, and it seems like they wanted us to forget that.

 

One thing that I loved about this episode, was the girl's father.  It would have been so easy to have him be the asshole televangelist, but they didn't go that way.  He was a loving father that had no problem with how his daughter got pregnant.  He didn't see it as it would hurt his business, he saw that he was going to be grandfather, and loved his daughter.  When it was revealed that the best friend had slipped her RU486, he comforted his daughter, and actually meant the words he spoke.  Hell look at the scene where he's talking to Veronica, he doesn't judge her, and tells her to trust her parents.  Heck, before that as she was getting the brush off from the CFO he came up, and it was clear he always had time for someone in trouble.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Jediknight

[Hanahope]

I can understand Veronica being made because its Madison, because she is such an awful person, but still has got to know that for Logan, it was just sex, and guys are like that.  Though yeah, Logan, not cool to pick the one person whom Veronica hates with a passion.  And yeah, I don't understand why Veronica doesn't despise Dick more, he's not harmless, he's cruel and selfish and just as bad as Madison.

 

Truly awful what happened to Brenda, but it was great her dad was so good.  Its easy to poke fun at televangelists, nice to see one portrayed as a decent person.  Can't believe the best friend would do that sort of thing.

[STOPSHOUTING]

So, rewatching this with my husband, who hadn't watched with me originally, and it's a long haul until the podcast catches up, so I got here and I just need to vent ... This is the dumbest break-up since the last, at least short-lived, dumb break-up. Veronica's last boyfriend not only raped her while she was roofied -- I don't care how they tried to justify/de-gross it, it's still gross and horrible -- he also KNOCKED UP Veronica's friend, because he's a feeble-minded simp who doesn't know how to use a condom, apparently, and yet Veronica not only FORGAVE him, instantly, apparently, she also helped him flee the country with his love child. By the way, that was the second time he'd bugged out and disappeared. Oh, and he has some weird disease that causes him to black out and, possibly, hurt people. So, yeah, comparatively, Duncan makes bum fight supporter/child abuse victim Logan look like a prince. All Logan did was sleep with someone else while they were broken up. Neither were virgins when they met. There is no expectation of fidelity between people no longer dating. It's just so dumb. Yes, the dumb Duncan storyline was to get rid of the block of wood that was Teddy Dunn's Duncan, but c'mon, Piz may have genuine charm/appeal but the reasoning for V dumping Logan for good is just ... asinine and wildly out of character. She's a realistic gal who has taken way worse crap than this in stride. 

And, OMG, I am not traditionally a 'shipper on any show beyond the 'Meh, I preferred them with so-and-so' feeling. These are characters in a pretend world and I am an about-to-be 41-year-old mom of 3 for cripe's sake ... Yet, has anyone ever had more on-screen chemistry than Logan and Veronica? They weren't even getting boring. It didn't crimp the show's style. They were still sups cute and fun as a couple; not at all show-killing, unlike her relationship with Duncan (ugh). Why, Rob Thomas? Why??!?! 

I was already a mom when this show came out, so far from a teen, yet I feel like I just want to put pictures of them up in my locker and draw little Logan and Veronica 4ever designs on my binder. This can't be healthy.

[pau]

11 hours ago, STOPSHOUTING said:

So, rewatching this with my husband, who hadn't watched with me originally, and it's a long haul until the podcast catches up, so I got here and I just need to vent ... This is the dumbest break-up since the last, at least short-lived, dumb break-up. Veronica's last boyfriend not only raped her while she was roofied -- I don't care how they tried to justify/de-gross it, it's still gross and horrible -- he also KNOCKED UP Veronica's friend, because he's a feeble-minded simp who doesn't know how to use a condom, apparently, and yet Veronica not only FORGAVE him, instantly, apparently, she also helped him flee the country with his love child. By the way, that was the second time he'd bugged out and disappeared. Oh, and he has some weird disease that causes him to black out and, possibly, hurt people. So, yeah, comparatively, Duncan makes bum fight supporter/child abuse victim Logan look like a prince. All Logan did was sleep with someone else while they were broken up. Neither were virgins when they met. There is no expectation of fidelity between people no longer dating. It's just so dumb. Yes, the dumb Duncan storyline was to get rid of the block of wood that was Teddy Dunn's Duncan, but c'mon, Piz may have genuine charm/appeal but the reasoning for V dumping Logan for good is just ... asinine and wildly out of character. She's a realistic gal who has taken way worse crap than this in stride. 

And, OMG, I am not traditionally a 'shipper on any show beyond the 'Meh, I preferred them with so-and-so' feeling. These are characters in a pretend world and I am an about-to-be 41-year-old mom of 3 for cripe's sake ... Yet, has anyone ever had more on-screen chemistry than Logan and Veronica? They weren't even getting boring. It didn't crimp the show's style. They were still sups cute and fun as a couple; not at all show-killing, unlike her relationship with Duncan (ugh). Why, Rob Thomas? Why??!?! 

I was already a mom when this show came out, so far from a teen, yet I feel like I just want to put pictures of them up in my locker and draw little Logan and Veronica 4ever designs on my binder. This can't be healthy.

Ha ha it is cute..and i understand you about Logan and Veronica, it was a pairing with maybe the most powerful chemistry i saw on tv with maybe some few others iconic tv pairings..and although season 3 was flawed/weak in many ways..they got serious deep/realistic/quality writing all over this show tbh.

[The Companion]

On 2/10/2014 at 12:13 PM, Lisin said:

Look, I get that Veronica is mad specifically because it's Madison, and I get that she blames Madison for her rape, but look Dick's the one who dosed the drink, he's also the one who shoved Beaver into the room with sleeping Veronica, Madison is guilty of being a bitch but really all she knowingly did was spit in a drink and give it to Veronica, so yeah she's gross and awful but she's not the one who raped you Veronica, and she's not even the one who spiked the punch. Not that any of that matters, but I just had to put it out there. She's awful and I understand the hate for her but I don't fully understand how Veronica has always been kind of OK with Dick, I mean I suppose it's because he's such a moron? He's like a big dumb dog who doesn't know any better? I don't know. 

I really don't get it. He is unapologetically awful and she is just like: "oh, you." 

On 3/10/2014 at 9:26 PM, Carrie Ann said:

It seemed like they wanted Logan to have done something blatantly awful, like cheat on Veronica, but then couldn't bring themselves to do that kind of damage to his character, so instead they had him sleep with Madison and then had Veronica overreact about it. It just doesn't ring true.

I totally agree that Logan, Duncan, and Dick were all WAY more at fault for what happened to Veronica that night than Madison was. So maybe this is just misplaced anger at them, or at Cassidy, or about the rape in general (which we really never saw her address, post-S2 finale). It's easy to hate Madison. And yeah, I can imagine needing a break from my boyfriend if I found out he slept with my mortal enemy recently, but "never" forgiving him? It doesn't make sense.

Oh well, I take that overreaction as another sign that Veronica and Logan aren't at the right place individually to be together at this stage.

Yeah, Veronica is way off base. Madison's crime was handing Veronica a beverage she spit in and losing her shit when she sees an apparently drunk Veronica all over her boyfriend. Veronica doesn't even get the high ground there since Madison did non permanent damage to Veronica's car while Veronica paid someone to steal and permanently destroy Madison's car for sleeping with Logan when they were broken up. 

The person who roofied you, Veronica, was Dick. Dick who you are comfortable having live with your boyfriend. You can believe he would slip a woman the morning after pill and still be civil, so get out of here with blaming anything on Madison.

On 3/11/2014 at 10:04 AM, Lisin said:

I mean I suppose that in High School everyone had those "enemies" who were just terrible to you overall and I get Veronica hating Madison, I just kind of don't think that at this point she should? Like she should realize that Madison is just a terrible miserable person who is clearly doing everything in her power to upset Veronica and so Veronica reacting to it is playing into her hands. I want Veronica to be more evolved at this point. I mean I am glad that they made Veronica mad about the person Logan slept with and not the fact that he slept with someone because I couldn't deal with a "We Were On A BREAK" arc here so I suppose this is better? I just, I wish Veronica were more clear about just hating Madison because she's all around awful and not because she "caused the rape" because Beaver caused the rape, not anyone else, yes everyone else did terrible things and that piled up but Beaver RAPED Veronica, no one else did. And again I say DICK DRUGGED THE DRINK! He pushed Beaver into the room! But Veronica is totally fine with him LIVING with Logan... I just don't understand. 

This. It cannot be said enough. This was petty jealousy and there is no dressing it up. 

As for the POTW, I cannot handle the awfulness of it. Miscarriage is an incredible trauma and intentionally causing it in another is legitimately unforgivable.