Cheers - General Discussion

[cpcathy]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Nick fathered the first five, #6 was by Bennet Ludlow, #s 7 and 8 were twins by Eddie. 

You're on it!

They are:

Anthony (or Ant'ny), Serafina, Anne Marie, Gino, Lucia, Ludlow and Elvis and Jesse.

[readster]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Nick fathered the first five, #6 was by Bennet Ludlow, #s 7 and 8 were twins by Eddie. 

Right. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I do remember Eddie.

[Door County Cherry]

13 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I do like when the actors laugh at their lines. Diane dinged Sam and Danson laughed out his next line while Long looked like she was swallowing her tongue. 

One of my favorite things about what Shelley Long did in the first season is how you can see Diane laughing in the background like a real person at funny things other characters said or did.  It ever endeared Diane to me and I never grew to have the same level of affection for Rebecca. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I mentioned that before too. She hid behind Norm because it looked like she was going to break up. 

Several of the characters genuinely laugh especially at coach

[DoctorAtomic]

It's annoying when the episodes seem out of order - they're in numerical order, but Sam and Diane break up, but the next episode they're together, and there's no continuity. 

I'm on the one where Coach's teammate died and it ended up he was a horrible person and I'm dying. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[cpcathy]

If you're watching season 2 straight through, Sam and Diane have mini breakups where they are not actually broken up, then the next episode they are together without a discussion of any issues.

[readster]

5 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

If you're watching season 2 straight through, Sam and Diane have mini breakups where they are not actually broken up, then the next episode they are together without a discussion of any issues.

Yeah and it was due to filming schedules for the actors. Season 3 is very messed up with continuity due to Coach's real life health issues and then death in March of 1985. One of the big discussions when the season ended was what they were going to do about Coach. However, as it basically brought up by everyone that his death was publicly known by viewers and the media. So, they just were going to say he died over the summer and bring Woody in. The cast were leaving it in the writers hands whether they made a full episode over his death when they returned from summer hiatus or not. Both Ted Danson and Shelly Long said it was very hard talking about it and other cast members got chocked up when trying to discuss it during original drafts. That's why they left it to be just between Woody Harrison, Ted and Shelly Long. Though you see Norm and Cliff in the background when the exchange is happening between Sam and Woody about Coach dying and you can see they are getting emotional from the scene. Reala Perlman was purposely off camera because his death hit her very hard. 

[blondiec0332]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Yeah and it was due to filming schedules for the actors. Season 3 is very messed up with continuity due to Coach's real life health issues and then death in March of 1985. One of the big discussions when the season ended was what they were going to do about Coach. However, as it basically brought up by everyone that his death was publicly known by viewers and the media. So, they just were going to say he died over the summer and bring Woody in. The cast were leaving it in the writers hands whether they made a full episode over his death when they returned from summer hiatus or not. Both Ted Danson and Shelly Long said it was very hard talking about it and other cast members got chocked up when trying to discuss it during original drafts. That's why they left it to be just between Woody Harrison, Ted and Shelly Long. Though you see Norm and Cliff in the background when the exchange is happening between Sam and Woody about Coach dying and you can see they are getting emotional from the scene. Reala Perlman was purposely off camera because his death hit her very hard. 

I  thought they handled his death very well.

One of the funniest lines of the entire series is when Nicholas Colasanto had already left the show but the character of Coach was still on the show.

 

Coach had went to Vermont to take his driver's test because he heard it was easier than Massachusetts.  Sam is on the phone with him.

Sam: Congratulations Coach.  All that hard work and cramming and burning the midnight oil.

Carla: Did he pass his driver's license?

Sam: No he found Vermont.

[WendyCR72]

And I love how, even 11 seasons in, at the end of the series, how Sam adjusted the picture of Geronimo in the bar with such reverence. That picture was in Nick Colasanto's dressing room.

So, in a sense, Colasanto/Coach got their due in the finale, too.

[readster]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And I love how, even 11 seasons in, at the end of the series, how Sam adjusted the picture of Geronimo in the bar with such reverence. That picture was in Nick Colasanto's dressing room.

So, in a sense, Colasanto/Coach got their due in the finale, too.

Oh I agree, I remember when the finale first air and you see Sam adjusting the picture, my parents went: "That was for coach." They read in the TV guide about the gesture in the final episode. Even though we physically saw Coach for 3 years, Nick Colasanto remained part of the show forever. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Wow Christopher Lloyd! He's hilarious as the temperamental artist. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Wow Frasier is YOUNG. 

[readster]

22 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Wow Christopher Lloyd! He's hilarious as the temperamental artist. 

I know, that was hilarious. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The flashback of Diane fighting the old women had me in stitches. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The flashback of Diane fighting the old women had me in stitches. 

I know or how the nuns were like: "Please leave!"

[DoctorAtomic]

Holy shit Frasier's mother is Livia Soprano! 

[DoctorAtomic]

I barely remember Loretta (Loret-tah). I know it's got to be kind of hard to play the dumb wife, but her timing is just as good as anyone on the show. 

[readster]

56 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I barely remember Loretta (Loret-tah). I know it's got to be kind of hard to play the dumb wife, but her timing is just as good as anyone on the show. 

It's funny, when they returned after the spin off was cancelled. Loretta's sister and nephew were never heard from again. 

[DoctorAtomic]

All right, I got 28 days and counting. I have to burn some ass through this show. 

Shelley Long looked like she was trying to swallow her face and not break when Cliffy was talking about his dream of being a trapeze artist and women's eyes glazing over with lust. I think I was more laughing at the reactions than the story. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Albania, Albania! 

You border on

The Adriatic! 

Your land is mostly mountainous, 

And your chief export 

Is chrome! 

[DoctorAtomic]

Diane being stuck in the vent was hilarious. 

And Michael Richards as a guest star in the Bar Bet.

I like the running gag of the guy who can't pass the bar, and Cliff's trip to Florida. And Norm going to the terrible restaurant.

The old guy with the hat keeps popping up. 'Sinatra!'

Edited June 3, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

All right, it's a little much Diane is constantly calling Sam from Europe. 

The waiter constantly breaking up about Luigi was hilarious. 

I didn't get when Diane called Sam the last time whether she thought it was him on the other line or actually was the machine and he was on his way. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

Wow Woody is YOUNG af. 

I of course knew Coach passed, but I didn't know they sort of just glossed over it to start. I didn't know Woody had a connection to Coach either. 

I do remember the 'screaming viking' gag and can't wait for it. 

I guess the end of S3 and S4 was meant to be a big time jump. 

Shelley Long actually looked like she was broken up about Coach and holding back. 

After gunning down the shit out of this show over like 3 weeks I'm feeling like the talent of Shelley Long is kind of underused on the character of Diane.

It's quaint that people talk about eating on the plane. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

I have to say - scorned Frasier is hilarious. 

[cpcathy]

You have two more seasons to get to Screaming Viking.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm up to the first Gary's tavern rivalry. 

I had no recollection of Diane bowling. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[VCRTracking]

Producer David Lee on Shelly Long leaving.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

They're showing when Cliff took Diane to the postman ball and everyone can barely hold it together.

When Diane pulled out the huge flowers Shelley Long looked like she was going to lose her shit. 

Diane's stoic look of horror when Cliff touched her was absolutely brilliant. 

I didn't realize Lilith showed up so early. 

I like the running gag of Cliff's vegetables. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

We're on to season 5! I didn't realize they made 26 episode seasons. 

I'm gunning these down, but wow if I had to watch Sam and Diane every week for 5 years I don't know if I would have made it through the show. 

Holy shit, Willie Garson is the waiter in the Cape Cod episode. He looks 14!

I only knew of Frasier and Lilith when they were married. I didn't know she made appearances prior, but her and Frasier griping is hilarious. Her timing is impeccable. It's got to be hard to play wound up so tight and deliver.

Edited June 7, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[readster]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

We're on to season 5! I didn't realize they made 26 episode seasons. 

I'm gunning these down, but wow if I had to watch Sam and Diane every week for 5 years I don't know if I would have made it through the show. 

Holy shit, Willie Garson is the waiter in the Cape Cod episode. He looks 14!

I only knew of Frasier and Lilith when they were married. I didn't know she made appearances prior, but her and Frasier griping is hilarious. Her timing is impeccable. It's got to be hard to play wound up so tight and deliver.

Yeah and too bad they didn't really add Bebe Neworth to the opening credits until season 9. I guess they were still wondering about her schedule since her Broadway work wouldn't take off until season 10 and why they had her and Fraiser go through problems and of course divorce by the end of the series. 

I really wish they would have used Cape Cod a bit better during the earlier seasons. Until jerk Jonathan took over as owner in season 8, because I never liked the character. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Season 9?! I have no sense of time with this show. I was too young when it was on, and then in college when it ended so only saw bots and pieces. 

[cleo]

Lilith was a great character. she and Frasier really added something to the show. Incoukd never get into the Frasier series though.

Was season 5 Long's last? I like her but I found it a slog. I think the writers just went in circles. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by cleo

[DoctorAtomic]

I watched the one today where Diane made Lilith up for the tv show and she and Frasier get hot for eacho there. 

I think the challenge with sitcoms back then was you overall write the characters to largely stay the same and not really have tons of growth. There's good continuity on the show for the most part, but the characters are still largely static. I think Norm actually has the most development. The show really was built on really great actors because not a ton really goes on. Which is amazing since the show was on for 11 years. 

I do like when they actually get out of the bar. 

I think the one with Vera's pie in the face is on now! I never knew it was DIANE that threw the pie!

I'm dying at the gag of them sliding the tv back and forth. KG's reaction shots are killer. And Sam does the call back to the tongue push ups. 

One thing I really like about the show is the characters cracking up in the background. 

43 minutes ago, cleo said:

Was season 5 Long's last? I like her but I found it a slog. I think the writers just went in circles. 

I think they wrote themselves into a corner. Long is an exceptional actor and I think they fizzled out Sam/Diane after 5 years and never gave her anything else to do. She plays ridiculousness incredibly. Sam at least had a history built in. I don't really blame her for wanting to leave. 5 seasons then is over 100 episodes with minimal character development. They could have at least had her graduate and do something else while still being at the bar. Maybe she could have been a freelance writer or something. 

Since social media wasn't around, did they think Sam/Diane was a big fan favorite? Or was it? 

Edited June 7, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[cpcathy]

The producers knew very early on that their bread and butter was Sam and Diane. And since I was around then (even though I was only 12), I loved them as a couple and I still do. 

[cleo]

It was good while it lasted. I like Diane and Rebecca equally altho I don't really ship Sam with either.

 

It was good for the show to shift when it did, though I feel kind of bad for Long based on the comments about her and the rest of the team. It seems like it was time for her to do something else as well.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

The producers knew very early on that their bread and butter was Sam and Diane. And since I was around then (even though I was only 12), I loved them as a couple and I still do. 

Is it though? I'm in the middle of S5, and the episodes with Sam/Diane relationship as the focused plot drags the show down. When they're on the side, it's palatable. I mean, I get that they were the impetus for the creation of the show, and the actors are fantastic, but at some point a show moves past its original intent and it grows. I assume that's why they added more characters, and clearly, it wasn't really needed as the driving force the show went on longer after she left. 

If Long hadn't left the show would they have kept it up? 

 

[Door County Cherry]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Since social media wasn't around, did they think Sam/Diane was a big fan favorite? Or was it?

You didn't need social media to measure popularity back then.  People actually put in more of an effort and wrote letters, bought stamps, and mailed them--either to the show or to numerous entertainment magazines.  Even though the show wouldn't reach #1 until the 9th season, season 5 had the show's biggest audience share/ratings. That wasn't all Sam and Diane but they were definitely a big draw that got the show buzz which helped it go from bubble show to hit show. 

They had their detractors, of course, but they're seen as the original big time will they won't they couple which inspired so many that came after.

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

And since I was around then (even though I was only 12), I loved them as a couple and I still do. 

Ditto.  I will rewatch those first five seasons with a purpose in a way that I don't with the last six.  That's not to say that I will turn off the TV if a later season comes on.  I just don't feel compelled to watch. 

 

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the challenge with sitcoms back then was you overall write the characters to largely stay the same and not really have tons of growth.

I think not much growth is realistic for the adults in that age range. I think the biggest issue is that so often characters devolve into caricatures.  I definitely felt that happen with Sam (who got dumber) and Rebecca (who got really dumb and basically man crazy at the expense of her career.)  That was harder for me to take. 

Quote

If Long hadn't left the show would they have kept it up? 

I think they would have made a definitive choice based on what some people who worked on Cheers later did with their own shows.  

[DoctorAtomic]

32 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

wrote letters, bought stamps, and mailed them

I know these are real words, but I just can't make heads or tails of 'stamp' and 'mail'. 

I do suppose that the will they/won't they is so derivative now that it's hard to imagine a time where a show was the first to do it. 

I'm rarely a shipper though. I can think of maybe one show where I was. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Since social media wasn't around, did they think Sam/Diane was a big fan favorite? Or was it? 

It was, as I recall. Of course, I was 10 when the series began and 15 by S5, but that is how I remember it. Everyone was into the "will they/won't they" push/pull dynamic between Sam and Diane.

[readster]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It was, as I recall. Of course, I was 10 when the series began and 15 by S5, but that is how I remember it. Everyone was into the "will they/won't they" push/pull dynamic between Sam and Diane.

My parents watched the show regularly. I was 4 almost 5 when the series started and by 9. I remember my mom going: "Will you just marry them or get rid of one of them?" 

[DoctorAtomic]

Sam and Diane have been invited to Frasier's and Lilith's. I don't know if I'm fatigued with Sam/Diane, but the other two are killing me with the reaction shots. 'How is the dip?'

Her flat line delivery must be extremely difficult to deliver consistently. 

I never knew John Cleese guest starred. Kind of a waste though - Diane basically spent 20 minutes throwing a tantrum, and it's hard to buy that he would keep letting them into the hotel. His rant at the end was great.

Norm got a fancy new job with the tiny office. I'm dying. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

They're showing the film Woody made to send to his dad - Norm gets a 'Norm' at the Hungry Heifer. I didn't think they would actually ever show the restaurant. And the substitute waitress! 

Diane's version might have been the funniest thing on the show I've seen so far. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

I watched the one this morning when Same and Diane bought the house, and I'm sorry, but it was dumb and just Diane whining.

I'm on the last one for Shelley Long. The scene where they're all old is funny. 

I get that Shelley Long was leaving so they needed some reason, but it's silly that she couldn't finish a book and be married. They could have set up a home office or something for her. Watching the 5th season, it looks like even with her staying, they wrote this into a corner. Or she could have gone to Maine after the honeymoon. I mean, Disneyworld. They just got Thunder Mountain!

I did like Sam's monologue about 'always wondering what if?' 

I was dying when everyone was handing the money back and forth for the bet though.

Edited June 9, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

SCREAMING VIKING!!!

I actually thought they played the joke on Woody. I think I've only seen it as a clip, but I lose my shit when Cliff comes in from the back to order one. 

I don't know if it's because it's S6 or just the compressed viewing schedule, but Sam hitting on Rebecca is just pathetic. I don't know if that's the point or what. 

I'm five episodes in, and I'm feeling like they aren't really giving Kirstie Alley much to do. 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[readster]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

SCREAMING VIKING!!!

I actually thought they played the joke on Woody. I think I've only seen it as a clip, but I lose my shit when Cliff comes in from the back to order one. 

I don't know if it's because it's S6 or just the compressed viewing schedule, but Sam hitting on Rebecca is just pathetic. I don't know if that's the point or what. 

I'm five episodes in, and I'm feeling like they aren't really giving Kirstie Alley much to do. 

 

It's so odd who Rebecca was when season 6 started and where she ended up. It's like seeing character degration instead of growth or just "losening up". I think another problem is, they wanted it to be that Rebecca was all business and this was just a stepping stone for her in the business world. She honestly didn't know how to run a bar AT ALL. I know by the time we get to season 7 and the company who Sam sold it to, wants Sam back in charge since he ran it better and people "like him more". 

[DoctorAtomic]

When Sam first shows up in the bar, there's people there. It's just kind of 'generic' bar at that point. So it's not like she ran it into the ground when he was gone.

I'm still in S6, so I'm not at the point where Sam gets the bar back, but I can buy that Cheers is more successful as a 'local bar' than whatever the corporation wanted to do and maybe realized that it was better to do that. Plus, on the phone with Drake, he told Rebecca to hire Sam because he knew a local baseball players would be a draw.

I know when I travel, I usually try to find bars like that.

Right now, Rebecca is kind of just there. Carla isn't going to like her because she's just Carla. Woody seems to like her, but it's not like she interacts with the regulars or anything.

 

 

[cleo]

It takes them a while to get in the groove with Rebecca's character.

I agree- I know it's in character for Sam to hit on Rebecca but it's tiresome. I did, however, like the ep where he kissed her and she was liie Definite Maybe! Just her reaction was funny.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm up to the one where Norm is painting for Rebecca. So this is kind of a character episode for her. It seems they would get to her quicker, tv wise since she's the only new character. I suppose that they wanted to build up her being kind of a hard ass. I'll give them credit for being creative with the exposition on her. Still though. 

I guess Sam being alone sailing that he'd be ready to hook up coming back to Boston, but it's still a little much. 

BACK SEAT BECKY

I didn't realize it was so early. I must have seen it as a rerun. Wow the jokes are awful and I'm dying. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

They're showing the one with auctioning off the guys. Danson was shaking his ass and they cut to Norm and Cliff. They looked like they were totally breaking up. Back to Rebecca and she was covering her mouth. 

I was wondering if it was an ad lib on Danson's part given the reaction. 

Between that, Lilith auctioning for Sam, and Woody's date, this was probably the funniest of the season so far. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by DoctorAtomic