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Cheers - General Discussion

ari333

By ari333
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AgathaC
AgathaC

Absolutely. I’m more of a “Diane years girl” (especially the first two), but there’s no denying the character of Rebecca, as written and performed, breathed new life into the show. The Cheers team rea

Jynnan tonnix
Jynnan tonnix

I just started a rewatch of Cheers from the very first episode after probably not having really seen more than a very occasional snippet in passing since it originally aired (and I'm pretty sure I mis

Bort
Bort

I think Sam was a good reliever but the drinking problem turned him shitty.

Door County Cherry

Door County Cherry

13 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I do like when the actors laugh at their lines. Diane dinged Sam and Danson laughed out his next line while Long looked like she was swallowing her tongue. 

One of my favorite things about what Shelley Long did in the first season is how you can see Diane laughing in the background like a real person at funny things other characters said or did.  It ever endeared Diane to me and I never grew to have the same level of affection for Rebecca. 

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readster

readster

5 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

If you're watching season 2 straight through, Sam and Diane have mini breakups where they are not actually broken up, then the next episode they are together without a discussion of any issues.

Yeah and it was due to filming schedules for the actors. Season 3 is very messed up with continuity due to Coach's real life health issues and then death in March of 1985. One of the big discussions when the season ended was what they were going to do about Coach. However, as it basically brought up by everyone that his death was publicly known by viewers and the media. So, they just were going to say he died over the summer and bring Woody in. The cast were leaving it in the writers hands whether they made a full episode over his death when they returned from summer hiatus or not. Both Ted Danson and Shelly Long said it was very hard talking about it and other cast members got chocked up when trying to discuss it during original drafts. That's why they left it to be just between Woody Harrison, Ted and Shelly Long. Though you see Norm and Cliff in the background when the exchange is happening between Sam and Woody about Coach dying and you can see they are getting emotional from the scene. Reala Perlman was purposely off camera because his death hit her very hard. 

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blondiec0332

blondiec0332

1 hour ago, readster said:

Yeah and it was due to filming schedules for the actors. Season 3 is very messed up with continuity due to Coach's real life health issues and then death in March of 1985. One of the big discussions when the season ended was what they were going to do about Coach. However, as it basically brought up by everyone that his death was publicly known by viewers and the media. So, they just were going to say he died over the summer and bring Woody in. The cast were leaving it in the writers hands whether they made a full episode over his death when they returned from summer hiatus or not. Both Ted Danson and Shelly Long said it was very hard talking about it and other cast members got chocked up when trying to discuss it during original drafts. That's why they left it to be just between Woody Harrison, Ted and Shelly Long. Though you see Norm and Cliff in the background when the exchange is happening between Sam and Woody about Coach dying and you can see they are getting emotional from the scene. Reala Perlman was purposely off camera because his death hit her very hard. 

I  thought they handled his death very well.

One of the funniest lines of the entire series is when Nicholas Colasanto had already left the show but the character of Coach was still on the show.

 

Coach had went to Vermont to take his driver's test because he heard it was easier than Massachusetts.  Sam is on the phone with him.

Sam: Congratulations Coach.  All that hard work and cramming and burning the midnight oil.

Carla: Did he pass his driver's license?

Sam: No he found Vermont.

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readster

readster

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And I love how, even 11 seasons in, at the end of the series, how Sam adjusted the picture of Geronimo in the bar with such reverence. That picture was in Nick Colasanto's dressing room.

So, in a sense, Colasanto/Coach got their due in the finale, too.

Oh I agree, I remember when the finale first air and you see Sam adjusting the picture, my parents went: "That was for coach." They read in the TV guide about the gesture in the final episode. Even though we physically saw Coach for 3 years, Nick Colasanto remained part of the show forever. 

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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

Diane being stuck in the vent was hilarious. 

And Michael Richards as a guest star in the Bar Bet.

I like the running gag of the guy who can't pass the bar, and Cliff's trip to Florida. And Norm going to the terrible restaurant.

The old guy with the hat keeps popping up. 'Sinatra!'

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

All right, it's a little much Diane is constantly calling Sam from Europe. 

The waiter constantly breaking up about Luigi was hilarious. 

I didn't get when Diane called Sam the last time whether she thought it was him on the other line or actually was the machine and he was on his way. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

Wow Woody is YOUNG af. 

I of course knew Coach passed, but I didn't know they sort of just glossed over it to start. I didn't know Woody had a connection to Coach either. 

I do remember the 'screaming viking' gag and can't wait for it. 

I guess the end of S3 and S4 was meant to be a big time jump. 

Shelley Long actually looked like she was broken up about Coach and holding back. 

After gunning down the shit out of this show over like 3 weeks I'm feeling like the talent of Shelley Long is kind of underused on the character of Diane.

It's quaint that people talk about eating on the plane. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

They're showing when Cliff took Diane to the postman ball and everyone can barely hold it together.

When Diane pulled out the huge flowers Shelley Long looked like she was going to lose her shit. 

Diane's stoic look of horror when Cliff touched her was absolutely brilliant. 

I didn't realize Lilith showed up so early. 

I like the running gag of Cliff's vegetables. 

 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

We're on to season 5! I didn't realize they made 26 episode seasons. 

I'm gunning these down, but wow if I had to watch Sam and Diane every week for 5 years I don't know if I would have made it through the show. 

Holy shit, Willie Garson is the waiter in the Cape Cod episode. He looks 14!

I only knew of Frasier and Lilith when they were married. I didn't know she made appearances prior, but her and Frasier griping is hilarious. Her timing is impeccable. It's got to be hard to play wound up so tight and deliver.

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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readster

readster

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

We're on to season 5! I didn't realize they made 26 episode seasons. 

I'm gunning these down, but wow if I had to watch Sam and Diane every week for 5 years I don't know if I would have made it through the show. 

Holy shit, Willie Garson is the waiter in the Cape Cod episode. He looks 14!

I only knew of Frasier and Lilith when they were married. I didn't know she made appearances prior, but her and Frasier griping is hilarious. Her timing is impeccable. It's got to be hard to play wound up so tight and deliver.

Yeah and too bad they didn't really add Bebe Neworth to the opening credits until season 9. I guess they were still wondering about her schedule since her Broadway work wouldn't take off until season 10 and why they had her and Fraiser go through problems and of course divorce by the end of the series. 

I really wish they would have used Cape Cod a bit better during the earlier seasons. Until jerk Jonathan took over as owner in season 8, because I never liked the character. 

DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

I watched the one today where Diane made Lilith up for the tv show and she and Frasier get hot for eacho there. 

I think the challenge with sitcoms back then was you overall write the characters to largely stay the same and not really have tons of growth. There's good continuity on the show for the most part, but the characters are still largely static. I think Norm actually has the most development. The show really was built on really great actors because not a ton really goes on. Which is amazing since the show was on for 11 years. 

I do like when they actually get out of the bar. 

I think the one with Vera's pie in the face is on now! I never knew it was DIANE that threw the pie!

I'm dying at the gag of them sliding the tv back and forth. KG's reaction shots are killer. And Sam does the call back to the tongue push ups. 

One thing I really like about the show is the characters cracking up in the background. 

43 minutes ago, cleo said:

Was season 5 Long's last? I like her but I found it a slog. I think the writers just went in circles. 

I think they wrote themselves into a corner. Long is an exceptional actor and I think they fizzled out Sam/Diane after 5 years and never gave her anything else to do. She plays ridiculousness incredibly. Sam at least had a history built in. I don't really blame her for wanting to leave. 5 seasons then is over 100 episodes with minimal character development. They could have at least had her graduate and do something else while still being at the bar. Maybe she could have been a freelance writer or something. 

Since social media wasn't around, did they think Sam/Diane was a big fan favorite? Or was it? 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

The producers knew very early on that their bread and butter was Sam and Diane. And since I was around then (even though I was only 12), I loved them as a couple and I still do. 

Is it though? I'm in the middle of S5, and the episodes with Sam/Diane relationship as the focused plot drags the show down. When they're on the side, it's palatable. I mean, I get that they were the impetus for the creation of the show, and the actors are fantastic, but at some point a show moves past its original intent and it grows. I assume that's why they added more characters, and clearly, it wasn't really needed as the driving force the show went on longer after she left. 

If Long hadn't left the show would they have kept it up? 

 

Door County Cherry

Door County Cherry

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Since social media wasn't around, did they think Sam/Diane was a big fan favorite? Or was it?

You didn't need social media to measure popularity back then.  People actually put in more of an effort and wrote letters, bought stamps, and mailed them--either to the show or to numerous entertainment magazines.  Even though the show wouldn't reach #1 until the 9th season, season 5 had the show's biggest audience share/ratings. That wasn't all Sam and Diane but they were definitely a big draw that got the show buzz which helped it go from bubble show to hit show. 

They had their detractors, of course, but they're seen as the original big time will they won't they couple which inspired so many that came after.

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

And since I was around then (even though I was only 12), I loved them as a couple and I still do. 

Ditto.  I will rewatch those first five seasons with a purpose in a way that I don't with the last six.  That's not to say that I will turn off the TV if a later season comes on.  I just don't feel compelled to watch. 

 

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the challenge with sitcoms back then was you overall write the characters to largely stay the same and not really have tons of growth.

I think not much growth is realistic for the adults in that age range. I think the biggest issue is that so often characters devolve into caricatures.  I definitely felt that happen with Sam (who got dumber) and Rebecca (who got really dumb and basically man crazy at the expense of her career.)  That was harder for me to take. 

Quote

If Long hadn't left the show would they have kept it up? 

I think they would have made a definitive choice based on what some people who worked on Cheers later did with their own shows.  

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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)
32 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

wrote letters, bought stamps, and mailed them

I know these are real words, but I just can't make heads or tails of 'stamp' and 'mail'. 

I do suppose that the will they/won't they is so derivative now that it's hard to imagine a time where a show was the first to do it. 

I'm rarely a shipper though. I can think of maybe one show where I was. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
readster

readster

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It was, as I recall. Of course, I was 10 when the series began and 15 by S5, but that is how I remember it. Everyone was into the "will they/won't they" push/pull dynamic between Sam and Diane.

My parents watched the show regularly. I was 4 almost 5 when the series started and by 9. I remember my mom going: "Will you just marry them or get rid of one of them?" 

  • LOL 2
DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

Sam and Diane have been invited to Frasier's and Lilith's. I don't know if I'm fatigued with Sam/Diane, but the other two are killing me with the reaction shots. 'How is the dip?'

Her flat line delivery must be extremely difficult to deliver consistently. 

I never knew John Cleese guest starred. Kind of a waste though - Diane basically spent 20 minutes throwing a tantrum, and it's hard to buy that he would keep letting them into the hotel. His rant at the end was great.

Norm got a fancy new job with the tiny office. I'm dying. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

I watched the one this morning when Same and Diane bought the house, and I'm sorry, but it was dumb and just Diane whining.

I'm on the last one for Shelley Long. The scene where they're all old is funny. 

I get that Shelley Long was leaving so they needed some reason, but it's silly that she couldn't finish a book and be married. They could have set up a home office or something for her. Watching the 5th season, it looks like even with her staying, they wrote this into a corner. Or she could have gone to Maine after the honeymoon. I mean, Disneyworld. They just got Thunder Mountain!

I did like Sam's monologue about 'always wondering what if?' 

I was dying when everyone was handing the money back and forth for the bet though.

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

SCREAMING VIKING!!!

I actually thought they played the joke on Woody. I think I've only seen it as a clip, but I lose my shit when Cliff comes in from the back to order one. 

I don't know if it's because it's S6 or just the compressed viewing schedule, but Sam hitting on Rebecca is just pathetic. I don't know if that's the point or what. 

I'm five episodes in, and I'm feeling like they aren't really giving Kirstie Alley much to do. 

 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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readster

readster

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

SCREAMING VIKING!!!

I actually thought they played the joke on Woody. I think I've only seen it as a clip, but I lose my shit when Cliff comes in from the back to order one. 

I don't know if it's because it's S6 or just the compressed viewing schedule, but Sam hitting on Rebecca is just pathetic. I don't know if that's the point or what. 

I'm five episodes in, and I'm feeling like they aren't really giving Kirstie Alley much to do. 

 

It's so odd who Rebecca was when season 6 started and where she ended up. It's like seeing character degration instead of growth or just "losening up". I think another problem is, they wanted it to be that Rebecca was all business and this was just a stepping stone for her in the business world. She honestly didn't know how to run a bar AT ALL. I know by the time we get to season 7 and the company who Sam sold it to, wants Sam back in charge since he ran it better and people "like him more". 

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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

When Sam first shows up in the bar, there's people there. It's just kind of 'generic' bar at that point. So it's not like she ran it into the ground when he was gone.

I'm still in S6, so I'm not at the point where Sam gets the bar back, but I can buy that Cheers is more successful as a 'local bar' than whatever the corporation wanted to do and maybe realized that it was better to do that. Plus, on the phone with Drake, he told Rebecca to hire Sam because he knew a local baseball players would be a draw.

I know when I travel, I usually try to find bars like that.

Right now, Rebecca is kind of just there. Carla isn't going to like her because she's just Carla. Woody seems to like her, but it's not like she interacts with the regulars or anything.

 

 

DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

I'm up to the one where Norm is painting for Rebecca. So this is kind of a character episode for her. It seems they would get to her quicker, tv wise since she's the only new character. I suppose that they wanted to build up her being kind of a hard ass. I'll give them credit for being creative with the exposition on her. Still though. 

I guess Sam being alone sailing that he'd be ready to hook up coming back to Boston, but it's still a little much. 

BACK SEAT BECKY

I didn't realize it was so early. I must have seen it as a rerun. Wow the jokes are awful and I'm dying. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

(edited)

They're showing the one with auctioning off the guys. Danson was shaking his ass and they cut to Norm and Cliff. They looked like they were totally breaking up. Back to Rebecca and she was covering her mouth. 

I was wondering if it was an ad lib on Danson's part given the reaction. 

Between that, Lilith auctioning for Sam, and Woody's date, this was probably the funniest of the season so far. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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