Cheers - General Discussion

[cleo]

Lol. All I can say is I'm sure in the world of Cheers Woody was not the worst option out there.

The last ep- very nice except for the Sam and Diane stuff as I said. I especially liked the last convo with Norm and Sam in the bar about love.

[Bort]

I guess Janet Eldridge was not Woody’s opponent for city council?

[DoctorAtomic]

I always thought Sam was a shitty reliever, but from the first season it seems like he was actually good. 

[cleo]

I was never sure how good he was. I figured he was a lot of relievers- hot and then not.

[DoctorAtomic]

Because of my spotty memory and not seeing the first seasons, I thought the joke was that he was awful. 

I just watched the one where he did the commercial with Tiant. It was really funny. 

[Bort]

I think Sam was a good reliever but the drinking problem turned him shitty.

[rubaco]

25 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I think Sam was a good reliever but the drinking problem turned him shitty.

That's my memory as well, but it's been some time since I watched any episodes that specifically mentioned his baseball days.

[DoctorAtomic]

They haven't yet, but I could buy that. They have related ancedotes where he was actually successful. 

 

[cpcathy]

Yes, he was good until drinking ruined his career.

[readster]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

Yes, he was good until drinking ruined his career.

Right and Coach even talked about how that really screwed up his career. Plus, when he went back to drinking after season 3. Everyone was seeing just how horrible Sam was when he was constantly drinking. Even Norm's comment: "ok, I've never gone to that point, even when Vera has given me reasons to." 

 Something that was a problem by the end of the series was how Cliff ended up. I get he was babied by his mother, but by the end of the series and the way he acted. He went from a guy who had a great job, and being a "know it all" really got him no where in life. By the end of the series, you wonder how he EVER lived on his own for almost 4 years after his mother sold their old house. 

  Same with Carla, you just wanted someone to tell her: "You know what? It's your own damn fault your life is like this? You sleep with anyone, THE ONLY 2 men who ever gave a damn about you or your children you forced away. Plus, drop your dumb horoscope crap, your own psychic admitted she had been lying a fake for decades!" 

[DXD526]

Sam must have been a decent pitcher at some point, he had the nickname Mayday Malone, which is pretty complimentary. I think his drinking brought his baseball career to a premature end, but he apparently had some talent. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I always thought 'mayday' meant crashing, which is why I thought he was always bad.

I'm watching the episode where Sam's teammate wrote the book about being gay. I'm glad Sam stood up. I didn't see the ending coming.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Holy shit, they got Tip O'Neil to do a cold open?

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I always thought 'mayday' meant crashing, which is why I thought he was always bad.

The confusion makes sense since "Mayday Mayday Mayday" is a distress call when you're in trouble.  But that's why it's complimentary because it's a call for him to save the day. 

I'm not sure how true it is but allegedly Mayday was chosen because of how closely it sounded to m'aider which means "help me" in French. 

I always kind of got the impression that he was quite good but he shortened his career with alcohol so he never quite had the longevity that could have led to a more lucrative lifestyle.   

[readster]

7 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

The confusion makes sense since "Mayday Mayday Mayday" is a distress call when you're in trouble.  But that's why it's complimentary because it's a call for him to save the day. 

I'm not sure how true it is but allegedly Mayday was chosen because of how closely it sounded to m'aider which means "help me" in French. 

I always kind of got the impression that he was quite good but he shortened his career with alcohol so he never quite had the longevity that could have led to a more lucrative lifestyle.   

Right his nickname was based on the Boston Red Sox in major trouble and Sam was called in to save the day for the team. Reason why got his name. Plus after he left baseball, and had some kind of payout from his contract was how he got the original money to buy Cheers and Coach followed him to make sure Sam didn't really end up in the gutter. Why he was the main bar tender for years when the show opened up. 

[DoctorAtomic]

They're showing the poker game con with Coach scratching his nose. I barely remember it and I'm dying. 

Holy shit I didn't even know it was Coach's con in the end! 

Edited May 23, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[rubaco]

17 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They're showing the poker game con with Coach scratching his nose. I barely remember it and I'm dying. 

Holy shit I didn't even know it was Coach's con in the end! 

One of my favorite episodes. Harry the Hat was a great character.

[readster]

1 hour ago, rubaco said:

One of my favorite episodes. Harry the Hat was a great character.

It was such a well done episode too. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm in the season one closer and I don't think I'm going to like the Sam&Diane era

Isn't Harry Night Court Harry? 

[readster]

7 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Isn't Harry Night Court Harry? 

Yep, Night Court didn't happen until 84, which was a year later. 

[cleo]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think I'm going to like the Sam&Diane era

Sam and Diane was good for a while, but they really beat a dead horse with it. By the time her last season came I felt like it was way past time for her to be gone. It was too much of the same beats over and over and over again. 

ETA however I will always enjoy seeing Frasier's bitterness about her lol. I don't know why but it cracks me up. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by cleo

[cpcathy]

There are some great episodes in season five, but they knew she was leaving and made the character annoying on purpose so we wouldn’t miss her.  

[DoctorAtomic]

In only on season 2. It's not actually that bad. The actors are playing out well. 

I've watched a lot of TV, and the timing with everyone across the board is fantastic. 

[readster]

11 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

In only on season 2. It's not actually that bad. The actors are playing out well. 

I've watched a lot of TV, and the timing with everyone across the board is fantastic. 

Season 4 is a very: "What are they doing?" season. You had strengths in it, one being Woody's introduction and working with the cast. Even Diane's situation at the church made little sense at the beginning of the season. So much even the nuns wanted to kick her out and you wanted to smack Norm. Because everything was seriously his own damn fault. Fraiser had leaps and bounds the most character development. Sadly, we got the rest of Carla's "stupid/spoiled" older kids that season. Season 5 was a great reset with Rebecca coming in and Sam trying to get his life together again. Honestly, Diane leave was the best thing that could happen because you saw the writers had just given up on her character. 

[Bort]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Season 5 was a great reset with Rebecca coming in and Sam trying to get his life together again.

Rebecca coming in was season 6. Season 5 was Sam and Diane’s engagement year.

[cpcathy]

Season four is my favorite season after seasons one. It’s really brilliant.

[DoctorAtomic]

I remember when Woody was introduced because of the 'screaming viking' gag. 

I forgot to add - the one with Carla's sister was really funny even though Cliffy had a bad time of it.

Did they ever say how Carla and Sam met? 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[cpcathy]

No, we don’t get to see how Sam and Carla meet.

[DoctorAtomic]

I can't say I enjoy episodes where the entire focus is on Sam&Diane. 

 

[readster]

11 hours ago, cpcathy said:

No, we don’t get to see how Sam and Carla meet.

Yeah, all we know they knew each other during Sam's drunk days through Nick of all people. Then when Sam got the bar, he gave a job at the bar. Everything else is pretty clouded there. I did like that Sam saw that Nick was still an over grown, dumb ass while his life has gotten pretty under control. Something that always bothered me about Anthony. He was willing to defend his father, but even in the horrible Tortellis spin-off, he acted like his father was this great guy. He was really crap.

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't know any of that. That's what I was wondering. 

They're showing the episode where Coach coaches the kids and he tells them Sam was the best reliever in baseball until the drinking. 

[readster]

44 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't know any of that. That's what I was wondering. 

They're showing the episode where Coach coaches the kids and he tells them Sam was the best reliever in baseball until the drinking. 

I found it interesting that with all the "aids awareness" of the mid 80s to early 90s they still had it where Sam, Carla, Diane and to a point Rebecca were just whipping it out and having sex. Even with the talk about Sam possibly having a low sperm count, Carla just needed to be touched on the shoulder and she was pregnant. Rebecca talked about being drawn to men with money and pretty much had a "wild" college life. Yet, the show didn't want to even bring that up. Brought up a lot of other great issues when the writing was there. However, while other shows were thinking: "Less sex" and "lusty and busty" Cheers pretty much went on. 

 To Norm, sex was a chore. Fraiser and Woody had pretty normal lives before, during and after marriage. Cliff had it so rare, he never knew if he was good or not unless he was told. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Back Seat Becky! I remember that one. I would think that Rebecca was in college pre-aids though. 

I'm guessing Sam pitched in the 70s, so same thing. I guess you could fanwank that he used protection in the 80s, and that Diane probably was careful. 

Maybe the network came down on any of that content. 

I'm reaching deep back here because I was little, but people mistakenly thought aids was a 'gay disease', but I don't know when it was known people knew anyone could get it. 

[readster]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Back Seat Becky! I remember that one. I would think that Rebecca was in college pre-aids though. 

I'm guessing Sam pitched in the 70s, so same thing. I guess you could fanwank that he used protection in the 80s, and that Diane probably was careful. 

Maybe the network came down on any of that content. 

I'm reaching deep back here because I was little, but people mistakenly thought aids was a 'gay disease', but I don't know when it was known people knew anyone could get it. 

How true, I was 4 when the show premiered and while my parents watched it, I really didn't much of the jokes until middle school. I was finishing my freshman year when the final episode aired. Watching it now, I see why it was such a funny show and understand the stories very well. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Wow they even got Dick Cavett. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm in the middle of season 2 and it's getting exhausting when the show focuses solely on Sam&Diane. There's so many great characters that were essentially fully formed from the jump and they're all pushed aside. Diane gets Sam tickets to a Hagler fight, then picks a fight with him about their relationship. It's just you need to let things go once and while. 

Although, I have to say, Shelley Long is a great actor. Her playing Diane drunk was seriously funny. I was wondering if her calling Sam "Yes, sir," was written or her choice. 

The show has some great quick sight gags though, and the actors' reaction shots are just hilarious. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Bort]

3 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I have to say, Shelley Long is a great actor. Her playing Diane drunk was seriously funny. I was wondering if her calling Sam "Yes, sir," was written or her choice. 

Drunk Diane was one of my favorite scenes of the character. I still laugh at this exchange:

Sam: Wow, you’re drunk.

Diane: Wow, you’re stupid. I’ll be sober in the morning...

[DoctorAtomic]

That was a brilliant line and delivery. 

There's certainly plenty to laugh at, but the whole Diane overanalyzes things, picks a fight, etc., is dragging. It's also not fair to either of the characters.

 

[readster]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That was a brilliant line and delivery. 

There's certainly plenty to laugh at, but the whole Diane overanalyzes things, picks a fight, etc., is dragging. It's also not fair to either of the characters.

 

I agree, it was kind of like how Fraiser and Lilith got together. These were two that were constantly calling things out on each other and after what is still the most hilarious TV interview. They get together and away they go. I felt their marriage as thrown out more for Bebe's Broadway work and after Fraiser was green lit and Bebe still couldn't really show up much in the first season. They decided that was it for their marriage. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I barely remember Fraiser and Lillith. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Is Diane getting a stipend from grad school? Because I don't know what her pay is at Cheers but her apartment is ENORMOUS.

I do like when the actors laugh at their lines. Diane dinged Sam and Danson laughed out his next line while Long looked like she was swallowing her tongue. 

[readster]

27 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Is Diane getting a stipend from grad school? Because I don't know what her pay is at Cheers but her apartment is ENORMOUS.

I do like when the actors laugh at their lines. Diane dinged Sam and Danson laughed out his next line while Long looked like she was swallowing her tongue. 

They never really explained how Diane afforded the apartment. Plus, the fact how she was going to school during it. Originally, Diane was suppose to be left high and dry from an ex when the series began and only way to pay her rent was to work at Cheers. I also laugh at times that Carla, who had 9 kids before the series ended, could afford to even keep her lights on. Granted, she got her house for a steal since it was near the airport. However, by the end of the series. Only her four oldest kids are either moved out/married/preggers or about to finish high school. She still had the other 5 who are in 1st grade to middle school. Even though when they did the Cheers reunion on Fraiser. She is happy because all her kids are gone even through two are divorced, one is in prison and the other three never talk to her or with her grandkids. 

  Basically Carla was happy she was finally alone and Diane and Rebecca are far away not present in her life anymore. Until Cliff decides to stick around Boston, she admits she almost has the perfect life again.

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh, I'm going to have to get this Cheers reunion then. 

Diane's apartment is a typical tv cheat I suppose. I think the only tv person with an appropriate apartment was Mary Tyler Moore. 

It's just funny she's got what looks like a full kitchen, giant living room with enough space for a dining area and separate bedroom and bath. 

[readster]

3 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Oh, I'm going to have to get this Cheers reunion then. 

Diane's apartment is a typical tv cheat I suppose. I think the only tv person with an appropriate apartment was Mary Tyler Moore. 

It's just funny she's got what looks like a full kitchen, giant living room with enough space for a dining area and separate bedroom and bath. 

Yeah, especially in the Thanksgiving episode. I mean they had the ENTIRE main cast in there along with Vera walking in (pie covering face) and there seem to still be room. Rebecca's was a bit smaller. Cliff's apartment looked extremely realistic. For Sam all we really ever saw was his bedroom. Least with Fraiser and Lilith's brownstone, it made plenty of sense. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I vaguely remember the pie to the face. I know that we never see Vera. They did the same thing on Broad City with one of the main character's roommates. 

I LOVE wife/ex-wife jokes. To the point where a whole bunch of people thought I actually had an ex-wife. I even got in trouble for it!

 

[blondiec0332]

18 minutes ago, readster said:

Yeah, especially in the Thanksgiving episode. I mean they had the ENTIRE main cast in there along with Vera walking in (pie covering face) and there seem to still be room.

Wasn't that at Carla's house?

1 hour ago, readster said:

They never really explained how Diane afforded the apartment.

Didn't she come from money?

[Bort]

I never though Diane’s apartment was that big. It was a living room, kitchen, one bedroom and bathroom. That’s it. 

Also, Carla had eight kids, not nine. 

[DoctorAtomic]

So was mine in the SF Bay. It was about 10% of the size. 

Diane came from money but she said she didn't want any of it sometime in the first season iirc. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

So was mine in the SF Bay. It was about 10% of the size. 

Diane came from money but she said she didn't want any of it sometime in the first season iirc. 

Right and it never went back to that. Yes, it was Carla's house, though the way they had her kids coming and going on the series. You couldn't keep track of who was where. Of course said tons about Nick, he fathered the first 6, but outside the first three, he didn't even know their names and if they were his or not. 

[Bort]

Nick fathered the first five, #6 was by Bennet Ludlow, #s 7 and 8 were twins by Eddie.