The Americants-- The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[GreenScreenFX]

Sorry, lame pun, I love Stan.

[GreenScreenFX]

I hate Paige, I wish they would kill the mealy mouth kid.

I love Henry.

[FormerMod-a1]

I like Stan and don't think he's normally a lunkhead, just sometimes. :-P

[PinkRibbons]

I've always enjoyed Paige, think she's well-acted, and very much appreciate that she responds to things exactly the way her character is supposed to - she's been lied to her entire life, it has left her deeply messed up.

And I thought last season was fine. Maybe not as great as the others but still miles ahead of most other shows I watch.

[whiporee]

I really really wish they had done one stand alone episode in the USSR, with P&E's USA counterparts doing the same kind of thing P&E have done -- killing innocents, stealing stuff, whatever -- to show a balance. It's hard to sympathize with P&E as soldiers without actually seeing that the other side was doing the same kind of thing, which they most certainly were. 

As I've thought about it that way, I hope they all get out. They were soldiers fighting for their country, and I if I reverse the nationalities, nothing really seems that bad in a fictional sense. But it would have been good to see that perspective at some point in the show's run. An American audience mostly sees them as bad for doing stuff to US -- it would have been a good balance and provide some empathy for P&E if we had seen US Illegals doing similar stuff to THEM. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by whiporee

[misstwpherecool]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

I really really wish they had done one stand alone episode in the USSR, with P&E's USA counterparts doing the same kind of thing P&E have done -- killing innocents, stealing stuff, whatever -- to show a balance. It's hard to sympathize with P&E as soldiers without actually seeing that the other side was doing the same kind of thing, which they most certainly were. 

As I've thought about it that way, I hope they all get out. They were soldiers fighting for their country, and I if I reverse the nationalities, nothing really seems that bad in a fictional sense. But it would have been good to see that perspective at some point in the show's run. An American audience mostly sees them as bad for doing stuff to US -- it would have been a good balance and provide some empathy for P&E if we had seen US Illegals doing similar stuff to THEM. 

It would've been much harder to get away with some of the stuff P & E did because the USSR was a police state, If Soviet defense factory workers, engineers, security guards all of the sudden were murder victims alarm bells and manhunt procedures would've been put into to play much quicker. Also in the US had/has  higher murder rate with more unsolved murders so many of P & Es murders literally could've gotten lost in the shuffle.. The Soviet motivation mostly about never let another World War II happen again along with spreading communism. The Soviets exploited WWII veterans and patriotism to the max.

[crgirl412]

5 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

It would've been much harder to get away with some of the stuff P & E did because the USSR was a police state, If Soviet defense factory workers, engineers, security guards all of the sudden were murder victims alarm bells and manhunt procedures would've been put into to play much quicker. Also in the US had/has  higher murder rate with more unsolved murders so many of P & Es murders literally could've gotten lost in the shuffle.. The Soviet motivation mostly about never let another World War II happen again along with spreading communism. The Soviets exploited WWII veterans and patriotism to the max.

Therefore, the American Illegals in the USSR would've had to have been smarter, craftier, and braver- basically better spies.  ;)

[sistermagpie]

Illegals like P and E aren't a thing every country does. The USSR is pretty unique in that. There are no American versions in the USSR. It's not just about what they're doing but the ability to take on the fake life. 

[misstwpherecool]

Besides Renee I'm wondering if there will be a surprise mole or defection wether it be someone like Aderholt or Wolf

Also although hardline I'm wondering if Claudia would defect if cornered in a situation she never faced before

Edited May 24, 2018 by misstwpherecool

[whiporee]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Illegals like P and E aren't a thing every country does. The USSR is pretty unique in that. There are no American versions in the USSR. It's not just about what they're doing but the ability to take on the fake life. 

I don't know how we'd know whether that was true one way or the other. I think it's unrealistic to think the US was any less aggressive in its spying than the Soviets were. It's just that the US didn't (or, if you prefer, hasn't) collapse like the USSR, so much of our spy activities are still classified. 

Not saying that the US did this kind of thing, but I find it hard to believe the Soviets would and we just wouldn't.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by whiporee

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

I don't know how we'd know whether that was true one way or the other. I think it's unrealistic to think the US was any less aggressive in its spying than the Soviets were. It's just that the US didn't (or, if you prefer, hasn't) collapse like the USSR, so much of our spy activities are still classified. 

Not saying that the US did this kind of thing, but I find it hard to believe the Soviets would and we just wouldn't.  

 

The US didn't have the capability. It's really hard to run illegals in a police state. The only successful human intelligence spying the US pulled off against the Soviets were from actual Soviets. Unfirtunately, a lot of them were executed when they were betrayed by Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames. Probably 15-25 Soviets who turned to help the U.S. were executed via those two greedy weirdos. Those Soviets really had to hate their government to do that. It was incredibly dangerous, and they weren't getting anything in return, other than a vague offer to defect, if the chance of being caught ever became too obvious. They instead got Nina's treatment.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Bannon

[whiporee]

I see your point, but this is a fictitious universe. It would be really hard for P&E to have done all they have as well, but the narrative required it. And if I'm not mistaken, the actual illegals program here didn't come up with much, either. (for the record, you'd have to say P&E never actually did anything of real worth, did they? maybe sent over some grain). 

My point is, although we see P&E as our protagonists, we also see their actions as villainous because they are here, working against *our* country as they live their deceitful lives. It would have been cool -- with not that much more suspension of disbelief than we've given the Jennings -- to see Americans in Moscow doing much the same things, for the same patriotic reasons. To me at least, it would have helped explain P&E's motivation, and to re-emphasize that they are, at least in their minds, soldiers in a time of war. And soldiers in times of war often have different moral requirements than civilians in times of peace.  

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I see your point, but this is a fictitious universe. It would be really hard for P&E to have done all they have as well, but the narrative required it. And if I'm not mistaken, the actual illegals program here didn't come up with much, either. (for the record, you'd have to say P&E never actually did anything of real worth, did they? maybe sent over some grain). 

My point is, although we see P&E as our protagonists, we also see their actions as villainous because they are here, working against *our* country as they live their deceitful lives. It would have been cool -- with not that much more suspension of disbelief than we've given the Jennings -- to see Americans in Moscow doing much the same things, for the same patriotic reasons. To me at least, it would have helped explain P&E's motivation, and to re-emphasize that they are, at least in their minds, soldiers in a time of war. And soldiers in times of war often have different moral requirements than civilians in times of peace.  

I just disagree that you don't need to suspend disbelief a lot more, to buy an illegals program working in a police state like the Soviet Union. To me, it is a leap across the Pacific ocean. There at least could be an illegals program in the U.S.. It literally would be impossible in the USSR. You get to a point, and you may as well give the characters superpowers, like in a Marvel movie.

[SusanSunflower]

People can and do disappear and start new lives in the USA daily, although it was easier before credit and computers ... Consider the stories of the intense surveillance of Lee Harvey Oswald in the USSR (and some of the consternation that he was allowed to change his mind and come home) ... Visitors in tour groups to the USSR were heavily surveilled with various tales of "too friendly" Russians ... which often turned out to be blackmarket related advances ... Yes, in a country where you have to carry and present your ID at all times to all comers, it's hard to evade detection, but god knows it's still possible ... but in a country where people are very poor and all housing and work is government regulated... very difficult not to stand out if you do not avail yourself of big-brother's services. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

I don't know how we'd know whether that was true one way or the other. I think it's unrealistic to think the US was any less aggressive in its spying than the Soviets were. It's just that the US didn't (or, if you prefer, hasn't) collapse like the USSR, so much of our spy activities are still classified. 

Not saying that the US did this kind of thing, but I find it hard to believe the Soviets would and we just wouldn't.  

I don't see why it's so hard to believe. They're two different cultures and countries and there's plenty of things done by one that isn't done by another. The West simply makes it easier to do this sort of thing. Saying that the US didn't have Illegals like P&E in no way suggests that they were less aggressive, it just says they didn't have Illegals like P&E. The West also had other advantages so they didn't need them as much.

I think showing an American version of P&E would have required far more disbelief.

[Umbelina]

The US WANTED to embed officers in the USSR, and certainly did embed CIA officers abroad, for shorter periods.  The FBI planted Stan domestically for 3 years.

The CIA couldn't find agents willing to commit to learning nothing but Russian for a minimum of 5 years, only to be embedded in a police state where even experienced agents had a difficult time spying.  The soviet union was the most difficult posting of all. 

Bob Baer actually talks about that, and about Russian KGB he personally knew who spoke perfect American English with an Indiana accent on the commentary on the spy/action/comedy movie RED.  It's not as if the CIA didn't try, or seriously consider embedding agents in the USSR, it simply wasn't doable.  It was much easier to "turn" soviets instead.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Umbelina

[FormerMod-a1]

This is the place for Unpopular Opinions, not discussion of Real Life Spies.  Please stay on topic.

[Umbelina]

Well, here's my unpopular opinion.  I never gave one single damn about the mail robot.

 

;~)

[whiporee]

Me neither.