"What?!?": In Which We Attempt to Address the WTFery of SPN Lore and Whatnot

[trxr4kids]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

 

Can grace want something?  What is grace outside of an angel?  Do we know?  Sam didn't kick out the grace.  He kicked out the angel.

That's kinda what I'm wondering, since grace isn't sentient presumably wouldn't it just thrive in a fertile environment, in this case a human with a soul, like a plant with water and sunlight. Although since Sam was soulless upon resurrection maybe Lucifer's grace residue starved. But still with my theory Claire should still have grace residue which would be worthless since cas is *presumably* dead.

 

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Which is why I never understood why there had to be grace extraction at all. Why couldn't Sam have just kicked out the remaining grace? That whole thing didn't make much sense to me at all.

Maybe it's like the lint trap in the dryer. LMAO

 

*I realized I typed presumably numerous times so I thought I should make it my word of the day!*

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

That's kinda what I'm wondering, since grace isn't sentient presumably wouldn't it just thrive in a fertile environment, in this case a human with a soul, like a plant with water and sunlight. Although since Sam was soulless upon resurrection maybe Lucifer's grace residue starved. But still with my theory Claire should still have grace residue which would be worthless since cas is *presumably* dead.

I have always that an angel's grace/life is what Cas described as being a "Wavelength of Celestial Intent" and it is somewhat sentient. Anna was born with her grace, she stripped it out and put it in a tree didn't she where it remained until Uriel took it. Then when she broke the vial, the grace went into her vessel that she was reborn into vs just going back up to Heaven. So that's why I think it is somewhat sentient.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

That's kinda what I'm wondering, since grace isn't sentient presumably wouldn't it just thrive in a fertile environment, in this case a human with a soul, like a plant with water and sunlight. Although since Sam was soulless upon resurrection maybe Lucifer's grace residue starved. But still with my theory Claire should still have grace residue which would be worthless since cas is *presumably* dead.

But, maybe it's not live grace.  I can't see it, but I'm shedding skin constantly.  My hair is falling out, too.  Neither of those things is really still alive anymore, and it's going to turn to dust, the skin faster than the hair.  Maybe I finally stumbled onto the right analogy. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Maybe it's like the lint trap in the dryer. LMAO

LOL that's funny

[Katy M]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I have always that an angel's grace/life is what Cas described as being a "Wavelength of Celestial Intent" and it is somewhat sentient. Anna was born with her grace, she stripped it out and put it in a tree didn't she where it remained until Uriel took it. Then when she broke the vial, the grace went into her vessel that she was reborn into vs just going back up to Heaven. So that's why I think it is somewhat sentient.

No, she was not born with her grace.  She hacked it out and THEN she fell and was born.  She appeared as a comet over Ohio, and her grace appeared as a comet over KY and the tree grew (very quickly) from that.  Which may negate my dead grace theory from the previous post.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No, she was not born with her grace.  She hacked it out and THEN she fell and was born.  She appeared as a comet over Ohio, and her grace appeared as a comet over KY and the tree grew (very quickly) from that.  Which may negate my dead grace theory from the previous post.

Ahh thanks.. I thought she had saved her grace in a tree on purpose. 

Are angels born with grace initially? If they are the wavelength of celestial intent is the wavelength the conduit that carries the grace. How did she rip out her grace from her wavelength?

[FlickChick]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are angels born with grace initially? If they are the wavelength of celestial intent is the wavelength the conduit that carries the grace. How did she rip out her grace from her wavelength?

The Show made her do it! LOL Anna should have gotten a tee shirt. ;)

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ahh thanks.. I thought she had saved her grace in a tree on purpose. 

Are angels born with grace initially? If they are the wavelength of celestial intent is the wavelength the conduit that carries the grace. How did she rip out her grace from her wavelength?

Zachariah said his true form had 4 faces and one was a lion and Castiel said his true form was as big as the Chrysler building. So, they apparently have some kind of form, but every time we see them, they are just a wave of light.  Honestly, no offense to anybody but I think I have to be done with this conversation because due to the fact that this isn't real, and is a TV show that is written by, shall we say, not the most consistent writers of a TV show ever (but to be fair they are by far not the worst), I don't think I can come up with an answer that fits everything that has been written. And, I'm kind of making my head hurt (not literally) by trying.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Zachariah said his true form had 4 faces and one was a lion and Castiel said his true form was as big as the Chrysler building. So, they apparently have some kind of form, but every time we see them, they are just a wave of light.  Honestly, no offense to anybody but I think I have to be done with this conversation because due to the fact that this isn't real, and is a TV show that is written by, shall we say, not the most consistent writers of a TV show ever (but to be fair they are by far not the worst), I don't think I can come up with an answer that fits everything that has been written. And, I'm kind of making my head hurt (not literally) by trying.

Well, I don't think anyone was trying to win anything here. I like these discussions to sort out these things even if we never figure it out. I like see all the theories myself.

[trxr4kids]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And, I'm kind of making my head hurt (not literally) by trying.

I feel your pain ( not literally ) but this show can make you try to make sense of the most ridiculous nonsense ever.

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, I don't think anyone was trying to win anything here. I like these discussions to sort out these things even if we never figure it out. I like see all the theories myself.

Yeah, I understand that.  But, it's just my personality that once I take a stand on something, no matter how stupid, I either need to prove myself right or wrong.  I need to work on that.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, I understand that.  But, it's just my personality that once I take a stand on something, no matter how stupid, I either need to prove myself right or wrong.  I need to work on that.

LOL Ah I gotcha.

[trxr4kids]

41 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are angels born with grace initially? If they are the wavelength of celestial intent is the wavelength the conduit that carries the grace. How did she rip out her grace from her wavelength?

Don't forget they're multi dimensional, did she have to be present in all dimensions and use that same wavelength of celestial intent at the same time to hack out her grace with said celestial intent *presumably*.

*word of the day*

[ahrtee]

12 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, I understand that.  But, it's just my personality that once I take a stand on something, no matter how stupid, I either need to prove myself right or wrong.  I need to work on that.

Well, I can tell you what I was told to say whenever I get into an argument that's unprovable:  "you may be right."  :)

[ahrtee]

59 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are angels born with grace initially? If they are the wavelength of celestial intent is the wavelength the conduit that carries the grace. How did she rip out her grace from her wavelength?

I didn't think angels are born...just like they can't be "created" from humans (per Houses of the Holy). I think Chuck created all the angels (which is how he managed to reconstitute Cas when he'd been exploded--several times.)  I think that's also why Cas said in s.4 "our numbers are not unlimited" and why the angel wars decimated heaven--no new angels to take their places, because Chuck was gone.  I'm also guessing that they were originally created as noncorporeal/"wavelengths of celestial intent," and can take whatever form they choose when they're not in a vessel.  

Anna wasn't "born" as an angel, but as a human child, who retrieved her grace and was returned as the angel she used to be.  I think.  

[trxr4kids]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Well, I can tell you what I was told to say whenever I get into an argument that's unprovable:  "you may be right."  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo9t5XK0FhA

 

I couldn't get the video to cooperate dammit!

[DittyDotDot]

Quote

 

3 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

In S6 they said souls were the most powerful thing in the universe and Cas used Bobby's soul to power/recharge his grace up after the time travel thing, I can't remember the ep name, the one with Samuel Colt and the pheonix. 

I have a little analogy, lets see if this works: think of grace as pure energy contained inside of rechargeable batteries [an angel]. The vessel is a device--with it's own power source--that's been connected to the batteries. Now, when you disconnect the batteries [angel] from the device [vessel], there's there is a little bit of energy [grace] left behind that eventually will dissipate, but it's just pure energy; it can't recharge on it's own it needs to be inside the battery [angel] to do that.

Furthermore, for grace to recharge, they have to be inside the proper angel or else the batteries explode and ruin both the angel and the grace.

ETA: Also, think of the independent power source [the soul] as DC power and grace being AC power. The device is designed to use both AC and DC power, but not designed for one to interact with the other.

Sorry, adding to my previous post to say, I don't think Cass used Bobby's soul to charge his own grace up, but used Bobby's soul power in lieu of his grace power. Basically he unplugged himself and plugged Bobby in...does that make any sense?

Edited September 12, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[trxr4kids]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Sorry, adding to my previous post to say, I don't think Cass used Bobby's soul to charge his own grace up, but used Bobby's soul power in lieu of his grace power. Basically he unplugged himself and plugged Bobby in...does that make any sense?

Unfortunately it does which just makes me wonder why Sam and Dean aren't tapping the soul power all the time. Henry did dammit. Oh wait, that knowledge is stored in the bunker that's impenetrable except when it isn't and full of all of the knowledge ever unless you don't look.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I didn't think angels are born...just like they can't be "created" from humans (per Houses of the Holy). I think Chuck created all the angels (which is how he managed to reconstitute Cas when he'd been exploded--several times.)

Okay born might not have been the right word, but when they were created, weren't they created with their own personal grace? Isn't that why Cas was having a problem in s10 because he wasn't using his own grace?

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Unfortunately it does which just makes me wonder why Sam and Dean aren't tapping the soul power all the time. Henry did dammit. Oh wait, that knowledge is stored in the bunker that's impenetrable except when it isn't and full of all of the knowledge ever unless you don't look.

Imagine being turned loose in the Library of Congress with no computer records or card catalogs, then try to find (and understand) the one spell you need.  Even if Sam has been cataloging (in his spare time) since they got there, I'm sure he's only scratched the surface, and I doubt the spells come with step-by-step instructions.  

ETA: unless they really, *really* need that one spell.  Then they just happen to find it within an hour or two.  With step-by-step instructions (and phonetic pronunciation for all the enochian/inuit/klingon words.)

Edited September 12, 2017 by ahrtee
adding more snark. Sorry.

[catrox14]

Well, if the show would ever let Dean do as much research as he used to do, maybe they would be more likely to find those spells! I mean sure Sam does most of it, but another pair of eyes is all I'm saying.

And remember when Cas took 30 seconds to look everywhere!

[trxr4kids]

8 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Imagine being turned loose in the Library of Congress with no computer records or card catalogs, then try to find (and understand) the one spell you need.  Even if Sam has been cataloging (in his spare time) since they got there, I'm sure he's only scratched the surface, and I doubt the spells come with step-by-step instructions.  

ETA: unless they really, *really* need that one spell.  Then they just happen to find it within an hour or two.  With step-by-step instructions (and phonetic pronunciation for all the enochian/inuit/klingon words.)

Emphasis mine: Charlie and Dean and *presumably* Kevin catalogued.

 

* I really can't stop myself*

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Emphasis mine: Charlie and Dean and *presumably* Kevin catalogued.

 

* I really can't stop myself*

Charlie cataloged the computer stuff (and whatever computer records they had).  Dean cataloged the porn (and weapons).  Kevin and Sam cataloged whatever looked interesting to them. (I was a cataloging TA in grad school.  I'll volunteer to help them!)  

Edited September 12, 2017 by ahrtee

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Unfortunately it does which just makes me wonder why Sam and Dean aren't tapping the soul power all the time. Henry did dammit. Oh wait, that knowledge is stored in the bunker that's impenetrable except when it isn't and full of all of the knowledge ever unless you don't look.

Well, I'm not sure it's a good idea to for humans to tap into their own soul power, seems like that's what Lily Sunder did and it had depleted her soul.

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Well, I'm not sure it's a good idea to for humans to tap into their own soul power, seems like that's what Lily Sunder did and it had depleted her soul.

And that's another thing. Sam and Dean both have done Enochian spells, so why weren't their souls being depleted?

[ahrtee]

Just now, catrox14 said:

And that's another thing. Sam and Dean both have done Enochian spells, so why weren't their souls being depleted?

I think there was a discussion about this in the Lily Sunder thread, though I don't remember what the conclusion (or maybe consensus?) was.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I think there was a discussion about this in the Lily Sunder thread, though I don't remember what the conclusion (or maybe consensus?) was.

I don't remember the outcome either. It seemed to me it was said that her doing an Enochian spell at all, would deplete her soul. But I could be wrong. :)

[trxr4kids]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

And that's another thing. Sam and Dean both have done Enochian spells, so why weren't their souls being depleted?

Maybe it's only certain enochian spells, jk, I got nothing.

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Charlie cataloged the computer stuff (and whatever computer records they had).  Dean cataloged the porn (and weapons).  Kevin and Sam cataloged whatever looked interesting to them. (I was a cataloging TA in grad school.  I'll volunteer to help them!)  

How much computer stuff would there have been, not to mention she was able to make a 50's database downloadable to a tablet in like a day. Dean researched the MOC so much Sam wanted him to leave the bunker. Kevin and Sam must have slacked off since it seems like Charlie and Dean were on the ball. Seriously I'm just kidding. Also the BMOL *presumably* dug through/shared info on the filing system/lore.

* That one was a stretch*

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And that's another thing. Sam and Dean both have done Enochian spells, so why weren't their souls being depleted?

My theory is, Lily was tapping into the power of her soul to make the magic happen instead of the spell itself holding the power--maybe she was working heavier spells that required that extra "oomph". The spells Sam and Dean tend to work maybe don't require their own soul to make them happen and/or maybe they have diminished a negligible amount of their soul power, but Lily has been doing it for over 100 years... ?

Other than that, I got nothin'.

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And that's another thing. Sam and Dean both have done Enochian spells, so why weren't their souls being depleted?

Maybe they were, but Cas kept topping them up every time they run low (hey, it's part of healing, right?)

Or maybe it's something to do with being archangel-class vessels?

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

And remember when Cas took 30 seconds to look everywhere!

Well, to be fair, I'm sure it's much faster to do everything when you have wings.  They've depowered pretty much everyting from earlier seasons, but at least they've partly explained the angels.

[catrox14]

Quoting myself from the Paint It Black thread. The question came up about religious representation int he show and I found this book that looked at exactly that. It's only up through s8 but I thought it was kind of interesting.

 

On 9/6/2017 at 11:50 AM, catrox14 said:

FWIW,

these folks wrote this book as of the end of s8 looking at religion in SPN. I don't have 30 bucks for the download and it's not copyable but here is a link

Television, Religion and Supernatural: Hunting Monsters and Finding Gods  by Erika Engstrom and Joseph M. Valenzano III

They have chapters on

Religion, Mass Medi, and Supernatural : Introduction
Plurality of Religion
Hegemony of Religions
Homilies and Horsemen
A Divinely Ordained Civil Religion
Conclusion

They only previewed the first 30+ pages of the 160 pages. It's a lot of numbers etc. Kind of cool. They address the instances of villains in particular religions, and other things in the text but  I couldn't copy and paste it and I was disinclined to retype a lot of it and I couldn't see a table that summarizes that aspect, which is not to say it doesn't exist, I just couldn't see it. But here is part of a table about the frequency of religion .

Page 33 Table 2.1

 

 I think if you add in s9 and s10, it's still probably a similar distribution with maybe a bit more of the Protestant Christian in s9 with Buddy Boyles. 

[trxr4kids]

Now that babyman Jack is here and presumably going to be hanging with the Winchesters not in alternate dimensions I'm going to assume that they'll go to the bunker at some point. Which leads to me to wonder what exactly the bunker is warded against since witches, demons, angels, arch angels, knights of hell, people with nefarious intent (Ladythankfuckshe'sdead and Ketch ) and now nephilim (maybe) have no problem coming and going. 

Abbadon slaughtered the MOL and followed Henry through time to get the key, why didn't she just waltz in like everyone else? Maybe only the entries are warded not the interior and key entry is the only way to get in. 

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Now that babyman Jack is here and presumably going to be hanging with the Winchesters not in alternate dimensions I'm going to assume that they'll go to the bunker at some point. Which leads to me to wonder what exactly the bunker is warded against since witches, demons, angels, arch angels, knights of hell, people with nefarious intent (Ladythankfuckshe'sdead and Ketch ) and now nephilim (maybe) have no problem coming and going. 

Abbadon slaughtered the MOL and followed Henry through time to get the key, why didn't she just waltz in like everyone else? Maybe only the entries are warded not the interior and key entry is the only way to get in. 

Nobody has ever had any trouble coming and going from there.  There was also supposed to be only one key, but Sam and DEan gave it to Kevin in sacrifice, he got locked in and they were able to get in.  I supposed Kevin could have left it under the mat outside.  But, Sam and Dean are often not together and get in and out no problem, also. As for Abaddon, I don't think she knew where it was.  I will say, that besides the BMOL, everything else has had to be shown wher it is.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Nobody has ever had any trouble coming and going from there.  There was also supposed to be only one key, but Sam and DEan gave it to Kevin in sacrifice, he got locked in and they were able to get in.  I supposed Kevin could have left it under the mat outside.  But, Sam and Dean are often not together and get in and out no problem, also. As for Abaddon, I don't think she knew where it was.  I will say, that besides the BMOL, everything else has had to be shown wher it is.

Well, there was originally only one key the Winchesters knew about, but apparently it opens any MoL facility around the world, so, presumably, there are a whole gob of keys out there.

Stupid show!

Edited September 18, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, there was originally only one key the Winchester knew about, but apparently it opens any MoL facility around the world, so, presumably, there are a whole gob of keys out there.

Stupid show!

I can actually sort of handle that.  Sort of.  But, that doesn't explain all the pre-BMOL coming and goings.  Like the Steins.  They didn't have the key.  It also doesn't explain why Sam and Dean ever went back to the bunker once they knew the BMOLs were their enemies.

[trxr4kids]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Nobody has ever had any trouble coming and going from there.  There was also supposed to be only one key, but Sam and DEan gave it to Kevin in sacrifice, he got locked in and they were able to get in.  I supposed Kevin could have left it under the mat outside.  But, Sam and Dean are often not together and get in and out no problem, also. As for Abaddon, I don't think she knew where it was.  I will say, that besides the BMOL, everything else has had to be shown wher it is.

 

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, there was originally only one key the Winchester knew about, but apparently it opens any MoL facility around the world, so, presumably, there are a whole gob of keys out there.

Stupid show!

Maybe you can just have copies made at Home Depot, no magic necessary and hand them out to friends, family and frenemies at your bunker warming party, lol. 

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Like the Steins.  They didn't have the key.

They used explosives as their key. ;)

I don't know, I think it's stupid, but it's one of those things you kinda just have to go with at some point. I mean, that whole "dialing back" the warding had me rolling my eyes so hard they almost fell out of the sockets...some things just aren't worth major surgery or vision loss. ;)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, trxr4kids said:

Now that babyman Jack is here and presumably going to be hanging with the Winchesters not in alternate dimensions I'm going to assume that they'll go to the bunker at some point. Which leads to me to wonder what exactly the bunker is warded against since witches, demons, angels, arch angels, knights of hell, people with nefarious intent (Ladythankfuckshe'sdead and Ketch ) and now nephilim (maybe) have no problem coming and going. 

Abbadon slaughtered the MOL and followed Henry through time to get the key, why didn't she just waltz in like everyone else? Maybe only the entries are warded not the interior and key entry is the only way to get in. 

Spoiler

He is definitely moving into the bunker per the EW article in the spoiler thread

[ahrtee]

3 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

Now that babyman Jack is here and presumably going to be hanging with the Winchesters not in alternate dimensions I'm going to assume that they'll go to the bunker at some point. Which leads to me to wonder what exactly the bunker is warded against since witches, demons, angels, arch angels, knights of hell, people with nefarious intent (Ladythankfuckshe'sdead and Ketch ) and now nephilim (maybe) have no problem coming and going. 

Abbadon slaughtered the MOL and followed Henry through time to get the key, why didn't she just waltz in like everyone else? Maybe only the entries are warded not the interior and key entry is the only way to get in. 

Well, we know the bunker isn't warded against humans, whatever their intent.  (As someone else pointed out, the Stynes used explosives to get in, and the BMoL had a key.) I guess they were sticking with secrecy/nobody knowing where the bunker is to keep humans out.  Maybe it's also warded against your "basic" monsters like vampires, werewolves, rugarus, and other non-humans.  Rowena, while a witch, was still (technically) human.  

I don't think it's warded against angels (or Cas couldn't get in).  My question is why so many people know about angels these days.  Cas said back in season 4 that this was the first time they were "walking among humans" for millennia, I think, though Anna said they had garrisons just silently watching.  But  Isham and his group were certainly doing more than just walking or watching.  (I don't remember if Lily Sunder used angel power to call Isham, or if he taught it to her?)  But Henry needed an angel feather for one of the MoL spells, so apparently the MoL not only knew about angels but were in contact with them.  Maybe they considered them allies and purposely didn't ward against them?

By that reasoning, Sprout (and Lucifer) could get in to the bunker, because technically they're angels (or part-). (Jesse was actually half-demon, so in theory he wouldn't be able to get in.)   I don't think there were any knights of hell in the bunker (unless you're counting Dean?) You got me on Demon!Dean and Crowley, though (even sneaking them into the dungeon shouldn't have worked unless they "dialed down the warding," which I don't think they know how to do.)  Although maybe the super-duper-warded handcuffs they were wearing powered them down enough so the magic door would let them through?  

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

we know the bunker isn't warded against humans,

Didn't I see an episode that featured a sigil that traps humans?  Dean got stuck in it, I think?  Why not paint that at the front door?.... either that or open a Starbucks in the lobby to welcome all and sundry and make a buck.  The writers or whoever rarely follow up on helpful gizmos or whatever from past episodes.... oh they did with the BMOL handcuffs.  But that's all I can remember.

The bunker is a joke IMO.    I don't know why Abaddon was so keen to get in, there's not much there.  Not even comfy chairs and a big screen TV. I was so happy to see the crazy western motel photos recently. So glad they still visit those crazy themed motels...  I'd love it if Jerry Wynek did a panel at Vancon.

[Katy M]

36 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Didn't I see an episode that featured a sigil that traps humans?  Dean got stuck in it, I think?  Why not paint that at the front door?....

That was Into the Mystic. Eileen painted it and Sam got caught in it.  And the whole thing kind of annoyed me.

36 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

 I don't know why Abaddon was so keen to get in, there's not much there.  Not even comfy chairs and a big screen TV. 

Well, there is a lot of information in there.

[trxr4kids]

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I don't think it's warded against angels (or Cas couldn't get in).  My question is why so many people know about angels these days.  Cas said back in season 4 that this was the first time they were "walking among humans" for millennia, I think, though Anna said they had garrisons just silently watching.  But  Isham and his group were certainly doing more than just walking or watching.  (I don't remember if Lily Sunder used angel power to call Isham, or if he taught it to her?)  But Henry needed an angel feather for one of the MoL spells, so apparently the MoL not only knew about angels but were in contact with them.  Maybe they considered them allies and purposely didn't ward against them?

I got nothin' because if they were considered allies why would they have a banishing spell? Where are they plucking feathers from exactly? It just seems like a serious lack of continuity to me.

 

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

 I don't think there were any knights of hell in the bunker (unless you're counting Dean?)

I am because he called himself that in Fanfiction.

[ahrtee]

13 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

I got nothin' because if they were considered allies why would they have a banishing spell? Where are they plucking feathers from exactly? It just seems like a serious lack of continuity to me.

 

I am because he called himself that in Fanfiction.

Well, allies aren't necessarily friends.  And I imagine it's hard to tell powerful beings (who have no concept of personal space or any human sensibilities) that it's time for them to leave, so I would think a banishing spell would come in handy! :)  

As to where the feathers come from, beats me.  I think Dean said he had two of Cas's feathers in the Impala's trunk, and I have no idea where those came from either, since we've only seen shadows of wings instead of real, corporeal ones.  Maybe angels moult (and feathers, once detached from the angel, become visible), so Dean could have picked them up from the bunker floor (or Cas's trenchcoat.)   :)

I guess Dean could be considered a knight of hell, though I'm not sure how that works.  Cain created the "order" (out of regular demons, I assume) but I thought it was more by training than anything inherent.  But either way, I think Dean was the only KoH that came into the bunker, and I'm just going to handwave that the magic handcuffs depowered him enough to get past the wards.  

Edited September 19, 2017 by ahrtee

[ahrtee]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Didn't I see an episode that featured a sigil that traps humans?  Dean got stuck in it, I think?  Why not paint that at the front door?....

Well, that would make it hard for Sam and Dean to get inside themselves.  I think sigils trump keys.  Maybe Sam can install some kind of fingerprint/retinal scanner on the front door (in his spare time, of course!)  Too bad Charlie's not around any more... 

[trxr4kids]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Well, allies aren't necessarily friends.  And I imagine it's hard to tell powerful beings (who have no concept of personal space or any human sensibilities) that it's time for them to leave, so I would think a banishing spell would come in handy! :)  

Right, but who would give them that banishing spell? Or did some random angel just let some MoL test random spells on them until something worked, lol.

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

 Maybe angels moult (and feathers, once detached from the angel, become visible), so Dean could have picked them up from the bunker floor (or Cas's trenchcoat.)   

Poor Cas, moulting seems itchy to me.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

That was Into the Mystic. Eileen painted it and Sam got caught in it.  And the whole thing kind of annoyed me.

Well, there is a lot of information in there.

Dean was also trapped in some kind of spell/sigil outside the farmhouse Lady Can'tbedeadenough was holding Sam.  That's how she captured him.  

8 hours ago, ahrtee said:

 Maybe Sam can install some kind of fingerprint/retinal scanner on the front door (in his spare time, of course!)  Too bad Charlie's not around any more... 

Sure.  Charlie could have done it in 5 minutes.  And uploaded all the information about who tried to break in up to the cloud.   ::snort::

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Sure.  Charlie could have done it in 5 minutes.  And uploaded all the information about who tried to break in up to the cloud.   ::snort::

Oh, come on, you know she could've done it in under a minute. ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Oh, come on, you know she could've done it in under a minute. ;)

Doh!  Silly me!  What was I thinking?! ;)

[Pondlass1]

38 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Dean was also trapped in some kind of spell/sigil outside the farmhouse Lady Can'tbedeadenough was holding Sam.  That's how she captured him

Yes, that's right.  I remember thinking at the time what a handy dandy thing it was.  Humans can be sneaky. S&D need a trap for them too.  One painted at the entrance would be fine.  S&D would know where it was and avoid.

But it remains that the revolving front door of the bunker needs to be addressed.  It should be made magical again like it was at the beginning.  And those scenes of Baby parked outside doesn't help.

I often wished the bunker was similar to Magnus' abode which was invisible and the entrance a spell.