Season 1: American Shakespeare

[Wilowy]

Beautiful, horrible, season 1. Put all your non-character thoughts here.

[David T. Cole]

Flash forward: Deadwood is my fav TV show.

Flash back: Could NOT get into this show when it first aired. I watched the first 2, maybe 3 episodes and I was just sort of "hmmm, okay."

Then I tried it again after a month or two and everything clicked. I still feel like the first couple episodes are 'off' compared to what comes after but I just fell in love with the characters (esp Al) and the whole cadence of the language employed.

I don't usually get upset at TV cancellations as I have a rare ability known as Acknowledging TV Is A Business but I still am upset we couldn't eek a final season out of Deadwood. It doesn't help that out of Deadwood's ashes rose the pile of poo that was John From Cincinnati.

[Wilowy]

Oh jesus don't get me started on that shite. 

The only time I've ever frequented the HBO boards was because of Deadwood (the actors would stop by frequently to chat with us - Keone Young, Jim Beaver, and Big Earl Brown were regulars), and when the news finally came down, you couldn't get within ten feet of that site without getting your ears scorched. Everyone, to a soul, was completely livid. Devastated, and livid.

David Milch, the tortured genius who had given us two seasons of this masterwork, and an uneven third, couldn't hold it together any more, got distracted by his shiny new project, and left Deadwood in the dust with an unfulfilled promise of two movies to wrap things up. 

JFC WAS a horrible, stupid show and should never have been born. 

*still bitter*

[Wilowy]

Flash forward: Deadwood is my fav TV show.

Flash back: Could NOT get into this show when it first aired. I watched the first 2, maybe 3 episodes and I was just sort of "hmmm, okay."

Whenever turning someone on to the show, I always have the lights low, prep with a couple shots of whatever brown alcohol the hooplehead likes, and issue a 'no talking' edict, so the full impact is felt. I think in the first few eps especially, if you miss out on any of that dialogue (first of all, it would be a fucking shame because it's so mellifluous), the show just doesn't have the 'hook' thing goin' on. And I warn people ahead of time, too. "If you stick with it, it will be the greatest television experience you've ever had." I honestly do not feel that that is hyperbole. 

Extremely gratified knowing that it's your favorite show! Those who disagree...? Well, you know.

[radishcake]

I came to this show VERY late. I mainlined the entire run last January on HBO Go. I'm that guy that loves that Netflix has whole seasons/series that I can just marathon. No waiting until next week. 

I love westerns in general and I loved the show from the very first bit. I was surprised by the portrayal of the women because I thought they would get short shrift but the main women had agency within their circumstances. It was just such a good character show. I feel like (just even sitting here thinking of it) that I can rattle off things I know about the characters and picture them as if I just watched it. I came to the show knowing and loving John Hawkes & William Sanderson and ended up loving everyone. Even super creepy crazy Powers Booth. (They just killed him off of my stupid show!) 

So in conclusion, Deadwood YAY. 

[Lisin]

It's funny because I HATE westerns in general but I loved Deadwood so much. I still haven't watched the end of Season 3 just because I'm so mad there's no more. I know that seems strange.

[Wilowy]

It does not seem strange, it does NOT. I do that with books all the time. Piecemeal them out to myself when I know there's no more. 

I realize it's just prolonging the inevitable, but I don't care. It feels like it lasts longer that way. 

Us crazy dames.

[radishcake]

I still haven't watched the end of Season 3 just because I'm so mad there's no more.

I do that too! Whew at least if I'm a weirdo I'm in good company. 

[walnutqueen]

I fell in love with Deadwood the moment Al Swearengen appeared an my screen, and I am still bitterly disappointed by its demise.  It is on of my all time favorite series.  I recently DVR'd the HBO marathon, and watched the entire series with only a couple of naps and some bathroom breaks/kitchen raids.  (I can delay gratification, I just choose not to).

However, I must part company with those who despised John From Cincinnati.  I was also bitterly disappointed by it's cancellation - I fucking loved that show.  But I learned my lesson, and didn't even bother becoming invested in Luck.

[radishcake]

Good on you @walnutqueen, David Milch is a chronic jilter.

[walnutqueen]

Yes, he is, radishcake and a motherfucking cocksucker to boot.  I either fall for the bad ones or the clever ones. 

[radishcake]

Don't we all? :D

[alynch]

I've never really bought the notion that Milch walked away from Deadwood. I think he was just putting on a brave face because HBO was giving him another show and he didn't want to rock the boat. I can't imagine if HBO called him up and said, "Great news David, we're picking the show up for another full season" that he would've declined. Sure, he declined that half-season offer they gave him, which I'm not sure was ever more real than those phantom movies anyway, but I could see how that could've been for legitimate creative reasons.

The cancellation really was HBO's ultimate act of hubris, though. They didn't like having this super-expensive show that they didn't even fully own (shared with Paramount), and they legitimately thought that they could just replace it with another Milch show that they fully-owned and maintain a similar level of acclaim and popularity. It usually doesn't work that way.

[Wilowy]

Keone Young said that Milch (who he called Dai Lo) 'had his reasons', and he would always love and respect him, regardless. It also came down to the huge expense of the actors pay increases, and the sets themselves. 

I never understood that. HBO, even then, had all the monies.

[Catherinewriter]

Is a hooplehead a miner or a civilian of the camp?

[Wilowy]

I always took it as reference to the general populace, though always masculine. Women were referred to as whores, cunts, or 'Mrs.' as far as I can recall.

Charlie referred to Jane as 'that woman' a couple of times, but other than that I don't remember what the camp called Jane. 

[Catherinewriter]

I don't accept the money explanation for the cancellation. For god's sake, what are they putting out for Game of Thrones, with dozens of characters - many of them main speaking parts - and filming in four different countries? Did HBO win the lottery?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just finished watching the first season of Deadwood on Amazon and I fear that I will begin referring to everyone I know as a cocksucker both at work and at home. "Gimme that stapler, you cocksucker!" "Hey, cocksucker! Is dinner ready yet?"

 

I spent the entire season being amused by Al and feeling bad that he was surrounded by idiots. Good minions are hard to find.

[Wilowy]

"Welcome to fucking Deadwood! It can be combative."

 

Oh I guarantee your vocabulary will indeed become more colorful. LOL to your "Gimme that stapler, cocksucker!" 

[Catherinewriter]

Yes to Radishcake, the women were/are wonderful. I think that a Deadwood without these specific female characters would have been an ordinary western. Not that I think the women had it easy - fuck, no, but as Radishcake said, they had agency. (Well, many of them, certainly not some of the prostitutes).

I still fantasize about Joanie and Jane going somewhere and opening a business of some sort, assuming Jane can ever get off the sauce. And Alma? I wonder what will become of her. She has money now so she can do whatever she wants (within the context of the historical period).

I want Hearst dead.

Electric Boogaloo, if Al were surrounded by non-idiots, he might lose his place as head man, no? Just a thought.

[Kel Varnsen]

I don't accept the money explanation for the cancellation. For god's sake, what are they putting out for Game of Thrones, with dozens of characters - many of them main speaking parts - and filming in four different countries? Did HBO win the lottery?

Game of Thrones has the advntage of being the most critically acclaimed (and possibly the best, don't know, don;t watch it) show on HBO right now. Back in the day Deadwood was always played second fiddle to the Sopranos.

 

I've never really bought the notion that Milch walked away from Deadwood. I think he was just putting on a brave face because HBO was giving him another show and he didn't want to rock the boat. I can't imagine if HBO called him up and said, "Great news David, we're picking the show up for another full season" that he would've declined. Sure, he declined that half-season offer they gave him, which I'm not sure was ever more real than those phantom movies anyway, but I could see how that could've been for legitimate creative reasons.

Except the half season thing confuses me. It seems the number of episodes offered was either as low as 4 or as high as 10 depending on who is telling the story. I think there is enough blame for everyone to go around, although I do think Milch probably checked out at least to some degree. Otherwise he would be pushing for those movies that were offered. I mean even if they weren't in good faith he could still be pushing for them.

[Catherinewriter]

"Game of Thrones has the advntage of being the most critically acclaimed (and possibly the best, don't know, don;t watch it) show on HBO right now. Back in the day Deadwood was always played second fiddle to the Sopranos."

Kel, but your argument becomes one of ratings, which is certainly another possibility, but I was talking only of money.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Catherinewriter

[Reishe]

Sorry to be so late to the party, but I've begun a rewatch of Deadwood on my Kindle at the gym, so I thought I'd see what the discussion was like over here. The Deadwood forum on Televisionwithoutpity remains my gold standard for tv forums: thoughtful, funny, generous, and (as a group) intellectually curious and better than any book group I could imagine. Sigh...

Anyways, as to the tangled web of Deadwood's ending, according to absolutely everything I have read and heard, David Milch may be a genius, but he can be a nightmare to have as the writer for your show. He would hold up production with last-second rewrites, to the point where, sometimes, expensive filming crews would be held up waiting, or shoots would be scheduled and locked in and then he would change his mind and a scene would be cut and a new location would have to be scheduled. HBO swooned at the chance to give up Deadwood for John from Cincinnati, because on paper it was so very easy to film: a very limited number of shooting locations, costumes you could buy at any local mall or surfer shop, and no horses (notice how that got him in trouble again on the next series). But Milch was back to his old ways, and he notoriously worked on scripts until the last second, sometimes changing locations entirely, meaning that again, the filming budget became unmanageable. (Among other problems, of course. I do wish I could have seen what he had in store for the second season; despite all of its flaws, the show intrigued me.)

 

Game of Thrones is a different story. First, it's exponentially more popular (and I think that the difference between television culture and the international online community then and now has something to do with that) and therefore harder for HBO to kill if they wanted to. Second, the scope of the story is so vast that they have all of the scripts in hand, and the shooting schedule is locked down to the minute, so that each crew (Croatia, Ireland, etc.) has meticulously planned out the logistics long ahead of time. More expensive, but not wasting money. I also figure HBO will be following the current practice and putting every last prop, costume and piece of furniture on eBay the second that filming finally ends. I don't think they're losing money.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Reishe

[Pike Ludwell]

Because of all the hype for this show I tried it - watched all of season 1 over the past couple weeks. I wasn't happy with it and will limit myself to season 1.

 

The Timothy Olyphant character bores the H out of me. It's not his acting - I enjoyed Justified a lot. Just the nature of the character I guess. Too one dimensional (he did smile once, but that was an exception.) And too wimpy a persona to be sheriff or to even be in such a place.

 

The torture scene where Cy killed that boy/girl couple of con artists went on too long, was too disturbing, and there was no quick payoff in a horrible death for Cy. In fact he survives through the end of the season. No resulting quick massive suffering/death for such a hideous character angers me to death in any show.

 

The minister was the most annoying character imaginable - at least he dies in the season (and when someone - Al - finally has the gumption to put him out of his misery - that was one of the season's highlights) , but the writers keep coming up with extremely annoying characters that I just grimace when they appear. I'm on completely different wavelengths with the writers. Also too much vomiting and urinating. Sorry ... I don't like to see that stuff.

 

Not enough interesting storylines to keep my interest. I guess I was supposed to be revelling in the character development and the general atmosphere. Unfortunately I'm not interested in the characters and the atmosphere is depressing.

 

Life's to short and there are too many better shows.

Edited June 29, 2015 by riverclown

[Kel Varnsen]

So i have been watching season 1 again and there is something that still has me wondering. Why did it take Seth and Sol so long to travel from Montana to Deadwood. Title cards in the episode say thatthey left Montana in May and arrived in Deadwoood in July (around the same time as Wild Bill). I looked it up and history says they were in Cheyenne, Montana and Bill arrived un Deadwood mid-july (he was only there for a few weeks before he died on August 2nd).

So a conservative estimate is it took them 6 weeks to get there. Google says that if i walked from Cheyenne to Deadwood it would take about 20 8-hour days. Sure roads weren't as good back then, but they had a horse and wagon, and were going through hostile territory. So why did it take so long?

I think at one point back at TWoP i figured out that Alma's dad made it from NY faster than Seth and Saul made it from the next territory over.

[Kel Varnsen]

The more I get through season 1 (watched episode 4 last night) the more it is interesting to see sort of cause and effect things (some that I never noticed before). For example I never noticed, in episode 3 when Wild Bill goes to the Bella Union to play some poker, there is a little bit of dialog where Cy tells Eddie to make sure he wins. Of course in the next episode Bill completely destroys Jack McCall at poker, cleaning him out. Then he gives him money to get breakfast. It is believed that Bill beating Jack then giving him the money is what drove him to kill Bill, which was kind of a result of Cy fixing the game.

Then later in episode 4 Jack is actually getting his meal from a Chinese-owned food stand. He isn't happy with the food, which probably pissed him off even more when thinking about Wild Bill.

 

Another thing was Sophia. Her and Jane were hanging out in Alma's room when Bill was shot. Jane leaves to go find out what happened leaving Sophia with Alma. She finds Bill dead, and by default Alma becomes Sophia's guardian.

 

Also I watched the scene last night where Bill and Bullock talk about nicknames. Bill said the only nickname he ever had was Kite (not sure why). Thinking about it today it is kind of funny, since Wild Bill is of course not his real name. Bill isn't even his name or a version of his name (James Butler Hickok) so he totally had more than one nickname.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[Kel Varnsen]

Today's things I never noticed before: In one of the middle of season 1 episodes (either Trial of Jack McCall or Bullock Returns to Camp) there is a scene where Bullock and Alma are talking in the lobby of the Grand Central and in the back ground you can see EB pick up a plate off the table, and scrape some of the food from it back onto a serving plate or frying pan.

 

Also never realized before that the guy who Dan kills for looking at Flora in the Gem is the same guy who insulted Wild Bill when he was helping seth and sol build their store and basically said "I hope you die in this camp".