S11: Guatemala

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S11 topic.

[cherrypj]

Watching this one now.

 

I have to say I heard about "evil twin Stephenie" or "Stepheme" (?), but you can totally see her nasty side in S10, too. She's so competitive, I can just see her yelling at Ulong all day long every time they lost. 

 

Cindy and Judd are my favorites so far, and I have to laugh at Gary "Hawkins."

[LadyChatts]

My favorite underrated season!  During HvsV, when James said Stephenie was more or less a jinx to her former tribes and that's why they lost, all I could think of was that moment when Yaxha attended their first TC and she couldn't believe people were actually thinking of voting her out ("I'm the strongest one here" she said).  Another highlight was Brandon and new-Yaxha totally killing Jaime in that RC (that was a fun RC, I wish they'd do that one again).  I had always wondered, when it come to that first station of chopping the ropes to get the first set of planks, were they not allowed to swap out?  If Jaime was struggling so hard and the other tribe got such a huge lead, why would he not step out? 

 

I really loved this location, the 11 mile trek to camp where they all about killed themselves (I miss old school Survivor).  Danni giving away Gary's real identity (inadvertently).  And yes Gary "Hawkins" was the best.  I liked more pre-jurors this season compared to those who made it to the jury portion-Brandon, Margaret, Amy, Brian (though I do find him super annoying now, as part of Eliza's 'Wine & Cheese' clique, but I love how he always gets digs in as to how the Guatemala cast has been virtually ignored for any returnee seasons).  I still love me some Bobby Jon, and I liked Gary and Danni post jury as well.  

Edited December 22, 2015 by LadyChatts

[phlebas]

Danni's win impressed me more than anyone else's until we got to One World and I re-set my standards on what I view as impressive.  (With all due respect to Boston Rob, but he had four tries to get a cast that stupid.)

 

I'd take Brian and Rafe back on a Second Chances season.

[cherrypj]

I gotta revise my opinion on Judd: what a bully. :(

[Oholibamah]

Watching this one now.

I have to say I heard about "evil twin Stephenie" or "Stepheme" (?), but you can totally see her nasty side in S10, too. She's so competitive, I can just see her yelling at Ulong all day long every time they lost.

Cindy and Judd are my favorites so far, and I have to laugh at Gary "Hawkins."

Her exasperation that Brianna didn't know what a "pick" was always makes me laugh.

I liked the Guatemala cast (Amy, Gary, Danni, Brian are great, Jamie and Judd are entertaining, and I've always liked Steph, even here) but something didn't quite gel for me but I can't ever figure out what it was. It's a mid-tier season for me.

Also, I will never get the Rafe thing. Everything about him is like nails on a blackboard.

[cherrypj]

Finally finished this one. Danni was an impressive winner, and I buy her (later) argument that she tried her best not to give the producers something they could use against her. I'm glad she won--she made the right choice picking Steph for FTC. I'm glad I don't have to see her hip bones anymore, too.

 

I agree with Cindi's decision to take the car. Shit yeah. "I'll think of you guys when I look at the stars through the sunroof of my new car!"

 

I'll agree with Oholibamah regarding Rafe: he always looked so apologetic and confused during the tribal councils. The "Aw shucks" act got old fast. I also call BS on his claim that he would have given up his car for the others.

 

The overall season was just OK, I think. Certainly a brutal one.

[phlebas]

I liked Rafe (and Brian) because they were two of the very few people on that season who had any strategic game at all.  Danni did too, and Gary Hawkins-Hogeboom, but we spent so much time with blockheads Judd and Jamie, All-Star Blockhead Bobby Jon, a surprisingly entitled Steph (her strategy was "be Steph") and underpowered stage prop Lydia.  For me, the signal/noise ratio for this season was terrible.

 

I'm not upset to not have Brian and Rafe back on, but if they showed up again, I would be okay with it.  It sounds like we're not going to see Danni again, so those two might be the next best options if you go back to the Guatemala well.

 

I have a lot of affection for this season, mostly because Danni was fun once she stepped into the spotlight. I think she showed to pick a loved one to visit that you were not going to lose your mind about. I think Danni's brother showed up, and she kept her game face on while everyone else was weeping into their buffs. And then she won the advantage at the next immunity challenge.

 

But the first two thirds of this was a tough slog. 

[fishcakes]

I also call BS on his claim that he would have given up his car for the others.

 

I believed him because I was very surprised that Cindy didn't do that. Even without considering the game aspects of it, I can't imagine passing up the opportunity to give four other people each a car if it only, in essence, costs me one car which I didn't have to pay for to begin with. I'd be Oprah-ing it up too. "YOU get a car and YOU get a car and ..." As far as the game goes, she was pretty much screwed either way though. Either she keeps the car and gets voted out immediately with no regrets because the others are thinking, "yep, enjoy your sunroof, hope it was worth the million," or she gives everyone a car and gets voted out because she just bought a ton of goodwill with people who are going to be on the jury. The latter option seems smarter from a game perspective because I doubt she gets voted out at the very next TC; I think they would have felt beholden enough to vote out Lydia or Danni at that point and then get Cindy at the following TC. And you always want that extra three days because you never know what's going to happen.

[cherrypj]

I liked Rafe (and Brian) because they were two of the very few people on that season who had any strategic game at all.

 

I dunno. If he had any sense, he and Steph cut Danni at Final 4. Baffled as to why they didn't. Sure, Lydia was popular with the jury, but there was essentially no chance she wins the immunity. Ah well.

[phlebas]

I dunno. If he had any sense, he and Steph cut Danni at Final 4. Baffled as to why they didn't. Sure, Lydia was popular with the jury, but there was essentially no chance she wins the immunity. Ah well.

true enough. I wonder if they had a blind spot about Danni. Survivor is replete with people losing to the goat they brought along to the end :) it seems silly for anyone to bring Danni now, but their perspective was probably different at the time.

 

Why anyone would vote Judd out is a damn mystery, man. 

I believed him because I was very surprised that Cindy didn't do that. Even without considering the game aspects of it, I can't imagine passing up the opportunity to give four other people each a car if it only, in essence, costs me one car which I didn't have to pay for to begin with. I'd be Oprah-ing it up too. "YOU get a car and YOU get a car and ..." As far as the game goes, she was pretty much screwed either way though. Either she keeps the car and gets voted out immediately with no regrets because the others are thinking, "yep, enjoy your sunroof, hope it was worth the million," or she gives everyone a car and gets voted out because she just bought a ton of goodwill with people who are going to be on the jury. The latter option seems smarter from a game perspective because I doubt she gets voted out at the very next TC; I think they would have felt beholden enough to vote out Lydia or Danni at that point and then get Cindy at the following TC. And you always want that extra three days because you never know what's going to happen.

 

This is a good example of why I would sandbag on the individual reward challenges if I was a post-merge Survivor.

[LadyChatts]

I believe Stephenie thought she had this in the bag.  Rafe was going to take her to the end (and would have beaten her), and I think she thought she could easily beat Danni.  Danni's game was way more under the radar, though I can't really say Steph made a ton of strategic moves.  Any that she did I consider to be more hurting her game than helping it.  

 

I don't understand why they got rid of Judd, either.  Stranger things have happened in that very last (and crucial) IC, and since those were typically endurance, maybe they thought Lydia would have a chance at beating them.

[phlebas]

This was season 11 -- maybe they felt back then that someone who had done nothing but not pissed anyone off had an insurmountable advantage over someone who made moves but stepped on toes along the way? The Amber Effect?

 

I don't think that was ever true. But if it was, it's certainly not now. So it's odd to think of Lydia being perceived as a threat. 

[cherrypj]

This was season 11 -- maybe they felt back then that someone who had done nothing but not pissed anyone off had an insurmountable advantage over someone who made moves but stepped on toes along the way? The Amber Effect?

 

I don't think that was ever true. But if it was, it's certainly not now. So it's odd to think of Lydia being perceived as a threat. 

 

Lydia could reasonably be compared to Kim Johnson from Survivor: Africa. Somehow, she won the final immunity challenge, but was perceived as someone who road coattails. So Ethan won handily.

[whiitter]

On 1/7/2016 at 4:13 PM, phlebas said:

Danni's win impressed me more than anyone else's until we got to One World and I re-set my standards on what I view as impressive.  (With all due respect to Boston Rob, but he had four tries to get a cast that stupid.)

 

I'd take Brian and Rafe back on a Second Chances season.

hahaha "...he had four tries to get a cast that stupid"

[Lamb18]

I'm watching this season right now. I just saw the episode where the immunity idol was used for the first time. Now they did not show Gary finding it. They showed Gary and Judd looking for it. Judd received an extra clue about the idol's location and Gary watched how Judd was looking for it (up into the trees instead of closer to the ground). Then we see nothing further about the idol until tribal council.

One thing interesting - Jeff asked for the idol before the votes were cast. Now it's after the votes were cast. I wonder what the votes would have been if Jeff had asked after the vote. The location in the Mayan ruins is very cool, especially how they have to go up the steps to vote.

[LadyChatts]

I've mentioned before, but I love this season (especially the location).  I don't know if it's a cost value for CBS or they'd rather just make it easy and strand everyone on an island, rather than somewhere rough.  But I'm envious of some of the international versions that continue to spread out and film at various locales.  I liked when the country was incorporated into the season (like this one).

I'll be curious what you think when it's all over!  I'm disappointed we have never had a returning player from this season (I don't count Stephenie since she's originally Palau).

[SVNBob]

Rewatched the finale last week as part of prep for S40.

Unlike the S24 finale, this one was less a demonstration of why/how Danni won.  It was more about how she got a few lucky breaks (which is a valid part of the game, no shade here), and how the dominant alliance made several mistakes along the way, resulting in their losses.

I think that in this case, it would have been better to watch the whole season again, and not just the finale.  Danni's moves were smaller and peppered throughout the season, and she had less control near the end.

But as a side note, I still agreed with Rafe regarding the sacrifice chicken.  I wouldn't have eaten it either, but would also have looked the other way if/when the others did.  (Besides, it was Day 37.  They couldn't have waited 2 more days to get to the end and eat?)

[Emilio Jr]

I hated NuNakum since they turned the villains of the season. It would have worked better with no swap taking place at E4, just to see old Nakum's dynamic (post interviews kind of confirm there was a strong alliance whose leader was Brooke and Judd was the outcast). By the way, Yaxha big mistake was voting Morgan out. Brian, Brianna and Lydia were the weakest links.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Emilio Jr