The West Wing Season Seven: The Campaign Trail

[ProudMary]

I know I am showing my age but I honeslty can't wrap my head around not having seen MASH....

I know!  I can remember that during the last few years of the show's run, it was already in syndication.  In the NYC market where I lived back then, the syndicated episodes ran M-F at 7 and 11 p.m.  I used to love Mondays the best when I'd watch "old" M*A*S*H at 7, "new" M*A*S*H at 9:00 on CBS, and then "old" M*A*S*H again at 11!  I loved the show so much!  Certainly my favorite "comedy" of all time.  Quotes around comedy as the show did drama just as well as it brought the funny.

I do hope that the younger members of the forum will consider watching it at some point.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

On the MASH thing...try and get it from DVD or streamed.  ME TV has it on but like lots on shows on third tier cable they cut it alot.

 

MASH was probably the first TV show (outside of Sesame Street) that I loved.

[BizBuzz]

I'm sorry for making you & AriAu feel old. If I hadn't been writing it at 2 whatever this morning, with insomnia, I probably would've said something nicer, like the actor..., which I should've said to start with, instead of "the guy...".

Please, no worries ... just had a slight pity party ... and then I remembered how lucky I am to have been alive and old enough to remember not only the Pilot of MASH, but the series finale.  

 

ANYWAY ... thanks ya'll for confirming that it was in Season 6 ... I remember watching it live and I was like ... yeah me too!

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I know!  I can remember that during the last few years of the show's run, it was already in syndication.  In the NYC market where I lived back then, the syndicated episodes ran M-F at 7 and 11 p.m.  I used to love Mondays the best when I'd watch "old" M*A*S*H at 7, "new" M*A*S*H at 9:00 on CBS, and then "old" M*A*S*H again at 11!  I loved the show so much!  Certainly my favorite "comedy" of all time.  Quotes around comedy as the show did drama just as well as it brought the funny.

I do hope that the younger members of the forum will consider watching it at some point.

 

I was in Central time so it was on at 6 & 6:30 and then 8:00..

[betsyboo]

I was in Central time so it was on at 6 & 6:30 and then 8:00..

In my house, whoever got to the tv room first after dinner got to control the remote, so to speak, SINCE WE BARELY HAD COLOR TV LO THOSE MANY YEARS AGO, MUCH LESS A REMOTE... ahem. Anyway, my much older brother sat on the side of the table closer to the tv room, so I never got to pick the channel. Hence my love affair with BJ Honeycutt at a very young age. I can vividly tell you where I was sitting when

Henry died. Swear to God I was 5 and I was watching my brother cry. Later in life, that became my go-to "I'm cool and hip with the fellas" pick up trivia line: "Did you know that the director didn't tell any of the cast that Henry died, and handed the telegram to Gary Burghoff right before yelling action? That way there were authentic reactions from the whole cast."  Yup. I was a playah. #envyme

[Kohola3]

Betsyboo, Radar's face at that moment is etched in my mind forever.

 

And if we haven't done a good enough job selling MASH, it was the number 1 watched finale of all time.

 

105.9 million viewers watched the Alan Alda-directed "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen" episode of M*A*S*H, which was not only the most-watched series finale ever, but the most-watched television event ever—until 2010, when the Super Bowl topped it with 106 million viewers.

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Kohola3

[SingleMaltBlonde]

betsybooo-

 

I never heard that story before.  That moment gets me everytime...that and when Hawkeye salutes Radar when he leaves.

[Kohola3]

Oh, geez. you have me puddling up just reliving those moments....

 

Now back to TWW.  I must admit I am enjoying these discussions as I bailed out early in S6 and never watched S7.  Still not sure I will.

[betsyboo]

Oh, geez. you have me puddling up just reliving those moments....

 

Now back to TWW.  I must admit I am enjoying these discussions as I bailed out early in S6 and never watched S7.  Still not sure I will.

Please do! Think of it as a brand new series that has some people in it you love... :-))

betsybooo-

 

I never heard that story before.  That moment gets me everytime...that and when Hawkeye salutes Radar when he leaves.

Snopes later disproved part of it.... http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/mash.asp 

[Kohola3]

Please do! Think of it as a brand new series that has some people in it you love... :-))

 

I dunno.  Maybe in the darkest days of winter when there is absolutely nothing else to do I may try an episode and watch it with one eye open.  I just can't seem to get past the chemistry of the cast of the original recipe seasons.

[betsyboo]

I dunno.  Maybe in the darkest days of winter when there is absolutely nothing else to do I may try an episode and watch it with one eye open.  I just can't seem to get past the chemistry of the cast of the original recipe seasons.

Cheno adds something unexpected. As does Will out of the White House. And Donna out from under Josh's thumb.

[Bastet]

Kristin's Chenoweth's speaking voice makes me want to either puncture my eardrums or sever her vocal cords, it's that annoying to me (we're talking misophonia levels of dislike here).  While it was one of the lesser reasons I quit watching in season six, it was on the list.

[Guest]

You know, the more they feature any member of the Bartlett family, the more I realize I don't care about any but Jed or Zoey.

Bradley Whitford wrote Internal Displacement, I noticed. Did he write any other ones?

This is a great CJ/Danny episode. A great episode for CJ in general.

[Guest]

And it's 1 am and I was about to go to bed. So of course a power plant may blow up.

This is why I need so much coffee.

And Danny.... was that a proposal?!?

[Guest]

Ok, so two episodes ago they were debating having Leo run the campaign. Given that, it would be nice if when Santos and Josh are in complete disagreement, there was at least a line about "What does Leo think?" Just saying.

[SparedTurkey]

Does anyone know if the original idea for the leak story was for it to be CJ? It seemed more than implied at the end of season 6. Or was it just to infer a CJ/Greg Brock affair? It does seem like it suddenly switched gears when Toby decided to 'get a lawyer'.

 

Also, I love Margaret. I love that she was exactly the same assistant for CJ as she was for Leo. Her disdain when Babish ignored her directives was classic Margaret. I always wished that if I were in a position to have an assistant that it would be one like Margaret. Plus, her analysis of CJ's handwriting was hilarious and a slight callback to her assertion that she could forge both Leo's and the President's signature.

 

I also felt like Kate could do better than Will - but I liked him much better when he was running the campaign for the dead guy than when he was in the White House. Also, if he was so smart why the hell did he hitch his wagon to Russell?

[BW Manilowe]

You know, the more they feature any member of the Bartlett family, the more I realize I don't care about any but Jed or Zoey.

Bradley Whitford wrote Internal Displacement, I noticed. Did he write any other ones?

This is a great CJ/Danny episode. A great episode for CJ in general.

BW also wrote Faith-Based Initiative in S6 (the ep where Josh left Bartlet for Santos & a local gossip column speculated CJ was a lesbian). I was a little surprised you didn't notice; I wanted to say something about it when you were in S6, but it wasn't as easy to tell where you were & I didn't wanna spoil you.

Edited December 13, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Guest]

Josh and Donna! Josh and Donna!

[betsyboo]

Josh and Donna! Josh and Donna!

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[eyebleach]

Josh and Donna! Josh and Donna!

Oh how I've been waiting for you to get here :)

Josh and Donna! Josh and Donna!

Oh how I've been waiting for you to get here :)

[Guest]

I love Toby calling Josh and giving him advice.

I fear Leo is going to be elected VP and not live to see it. :(

[Guest]

Vinick is so condescending and smug talking to Santos about the briefcase.

[Guest]

I'm so adult today. I turned it off and went to bed at midnight... right before The Election.

So now I'm laying in bed thinking about getting up to watch instead of sleeping, but I get credit for trying, right? ;)

[betsyboo]

I'm so adult today. I turned it off and went to bed at midnight... right before The Election.

So now I'm laying in bed thinking about getting up to watch instead of sleeping, but I get credit for trying, right? ;)

yup!

[BW Manilowe]

Vinick is so condescending and smug talking to Santos about the briefcase.

I thought he was being rather morally superior too, when he initially thought it was Santos, instead of his flaky brother, who fathered the illegitimate child he was paying support for. At least it seemed he wasn't gonna take the issue to the media. Though I wouldn't have put it past some of his newer staff towards the end of the campaign--NOT Patricia Richardson's character, or Stephen Root's; maybe Ron Silver's Bruno or the new lady I think the RNC brought in after Patricia Richardson's character resigned (if you're on The Election, that shouldn't be a spoiler for you).

And when you get to the actual part in The Election where the staffs start tallying electoral numbers on their individual maps, watch for the sort of blooper where the lady working for Vinick is reading aloud which states Vinick just won, & how many Electoral College delegates each got him. At 1 point she's writing state tallies on their map that she hasn't even read aloud yet, instead of writing & reading the same thing simultaneously, like most people--I think it involves a group of states including, like, Louisiana. I always considered that a blooper, anyway.

Edited December 15, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Melancholy]

I thought Vinick was high on his own INTEGRITY and GENEROSITY by handing over a potentially damaging piece of evidence to Santos two weeks before a very close election. An election that Vinick WOULD have had in the bag just based on a comparison of two candidates' careers and the country's political position but suddenly, became a horse race as partly a function of the out-of-nowhere, surprising nuclear meltdown. It's almost like Vinick had to build up the drama that the briefcase would mean political ruin for Santos so Vinick could feel awesome about a simple exchange of a simple item. It feels very, very real. Frankly, I see Jed Bartlet handling the situation similarly with the same condescension and cloying need to be The Hero of This Story. It's just Santos who'd be too much of a Marty Stu character to have those emotions. 

[Guest]

Frankly, I see Jed Bartlet handling the situation similarly with the same condescension and cloying need to be The Hero of This Story.

 

To be fair, I could easily describe Bartlet as smug and condescending at times too. ;)  It was also the way he implied Santos was lying about his brother and how he would have handled it differently. It just annoyed me.  But prior to the reveal of the brother, I was wondering what was going on because Santos has almost been portrayed as "too perfect."  (I assume a Marty Stu is the male version of a Mary Sue?)

[Melancholy]

Yes, Marty Stu is the male version of Mary Sue. To be fair, I think Santos has some interesting flaws that the show touches on and even rebukes him for. Toby's comment that Santos didn't have the gumption to decide to run for President on his own- so how will he have the drive to lead the nation through troubling periods is incredibly powerful and On Point. Santos can be dismissive and I don't think he shows nearly enough gratitude to Josh; IMO, there was definitely a scoldy edge behind Leo's forced respect when Leo told Santos that Josh should continue to run the campaign and it's up to Santos to win instead of his advisers to win the election for him. Josh really didn't get the Jed/Leo dynamic that he was hoping for, and it's largely because Josh and Santos just don't have that longevity but also because I think Santos is too much of a stiff alpha to slide into the Jed-role to Josh's Leo McGarry. 

 

However, I think it's scattershot. The show touches on flaws- but they don't feel as baked into the character as all of Santos's strengths and virtues. 

[eyebleach]

I'm so adult today. I turned it off and went to bed at midnight... right before The Election.

So now I'm laying in bed thinking about getting up to watch instead of sleeping, but I get credit for trying, right? ;)

 

That's some quality adulting you got going on there!

 

[eyebleach]

The same though could be said about Bartlet.  He didn't decide to run - Leo came to him to ask him to run and all but talked him into it.  Bartlet didn't think he was going to win - he thought he'd run through a few primaries, get to talk about some important issues and then go home.

[Melancholy]

The same though could be said about Bartlet.  He didn't decide to run - Leo came to him to ask him to run and all but talked him into it.  Bartlet didn't think he was going to win - he thought he'd run through a few primaries, get to talk about some important issues and then go home.

 

True. I was thinking of adding that to my post. Toby was being hypocritical and even if Toby never heard about the Napkin Story, he was part of the early days of the campaign where Jed seemed apathetic about chances at victory and was just saying whatever he felt, backed up by the New Hampshire Good Ole Boys who Jed knew from pre-school or something. However, still, Toby's point is something to consider and frustrated, house-arrest speechwriter that he is, I love the wording of the speech (which I forget). 

 

I will say, though, Santos was thinking of quitting politics all together until Josh came in with a Nine Point Plan or something to win, and then, with seasoned famous political operative promising victory, suddenly Santos lurched from wanting to quit politics to wanting to run for President. Jed was happy being governor and leading a state and then, Leo appeared to come in with just an inspiration to run for President with no guarantees of Plans or a hard sell and Jed was motivated to get into the race to keep the front-runner politicians honest, which has its own gumption. I think the two can absolutely be compared and it'd be cool if Josh and Toby debated that, but I think Jed's choice to run comes off better than Santos's IMO. 

[eyebleach]

I agree.  Nevermind that I'd NEVER want to be president, I can't imagine being able to be talked into it unless I had some fire in my belly.  Jed's fire was at a minimum more obvious than Santos's fire.  

[Moose135]

To be fair, I could easily describe Bartlet as smug and condescending at times too. ;) 

 

I always liked Toby's line about Jed: 'Don't you get it? It's a gift that they're irreversibly convinced that he's arrogant 'cause now he can be.' If your guy's seen that way, you might as well knock some bodies down with it."

[Guest]

Okay, and Season 7 has a distinct lack of Charlie.  I miss him.

[BizBuzz]

Okay, and Season 7 has a distinct lack of Charlie.  I miss him.

 

I think this was because of Psych.  

[Guest]

I think this was because of Psych.  

 

I didn't know he was in that. Regardless, TWW should come first! ;)  They did mention Zoey last night so I was hopeful we'd get a sighting.  I really want to know if he proposed and if she accepted.  I do find the speculation that The Wedding was supposed to be their wedding to be very interesting and I'm sad that didn't pan out!

[Kohola3]

I didn't know he was in that.

 

Psych was a comedy and he's a great comedian.  Didn't care much for the other guy but adored Dule.  Check it out.

[AriAu]

I always liked Toby's line about Jed: 'Don't you get it? It's a gift that they're irreversibly convinced that he's arrogant 'cause now he can be.' If your guy's seen that way, you might as well knock some bodies down with it."

 

Didn't Sam say that Toby called him at 3 in the morning and said...

It is from Game On, I think

[betsyboo]

I think this was because of Psych.  

Also one of my favorites. If you're looking for your next series, this should be a contender for consideration. Much lighter, obviously, but the friendship between Dule's character and James Roday's is Tina/Amy-like. Lots of silliness and fun and things that can't be taken seriously. I admit that I quote Psych as much as I quote TWW.

[Guest]

The "previously on" for the election features the Josh and Donna kiss. I'm thinking this means good things are coming!

Is EVERYONE on the Santos campaign hooking up?

Josh and Donna! Josh and Donna!!!!!

This is not a drill!

[Guest]

Once again- Josh and Donna!

They're so cute yet awkward yet natural together. :)

[Guest]

Charlie is in this episode!

Is John Spencer already dead as this was filmed? He hasn't been in like four consecutive episodes.

Oh.... Annabeth just found Leo. :( they haven't said what happened though.

Donna just told Josh about Leo.

I'm not sure I can watch this episode. I'm feeling lots of feels.

[Melancholy]

When I watched Election Day Part II real-time, I was in high school. I ricocheted between weeping heartbreak and total edge-of-my-seat suspense and joy- it was an emotional experience. Election Day Part I is a little thin and unremarkable but Election Day Part II would make my Top 10 eps easily. 

[Guest]

I am out of emotions now. I am emotionally exhausted. Wow.

RIP, John Spencer.

[Melancholy]

It makes me upset that Josh's actual father died on the night when Bartlet won the Illinois primary/basically became the presumptive Democratic nominee and Josh's  main father figure since Josh's bio father's death died when Santos won the presidency. 

[BW Manilowe]

Charlie is in this episode!

Is John Spencer already dead as this was filmed? He hasn't been in like four consecutive episodes.

Oh.... Annabeth just found Leo. :( they haven't said what happened though.

Donna just told Josh about Leo.

I'm not sure I can watch this episode. I'm feeling lots of feels.

Yes, John Spencer was already dead in real life by the time Election Day Parts I & II were filmed--those were filmed closer to when the series wrapped production, along with the final 4 (or whatever), left to air after these 2, dealing with Bartlet & his Administration preparing to leave the White House, Vinick adjusting to losing, & the Santos family's life adjustments as they prepare to enter the White House.

The last 2 eps John apparently filmed scenes for were The Cold & Running Mates, the 1 about the Vice-Presidential Debate. Those were filmed closer to when they left for their last Christmas/New Year's holiday break at the end of 2005/the beginning of 2006. John died over that break, on December 16th, 2005, 4 days short of his 59th birthday. So, as I write this it's actually the 10th anniversary of his passing (ironically).

There should've been a brief "introduction" at the start of Running Mates (similar to the cast's explanatory introduction at the beginning of Isaac & Ishmael) where Martin Sheen explains how this is the last ep of TWW John filmed before his death, & how he was a great guy & Martin & the rest of the cast would miss him terribly, ending with the line, "Johnny, we hardly knew ye." (or a variation of it). If there isn't, it was part of the ep when it aired on TV & it's also in the ep as it appears in the S7 DVDs (which is another advantage to having the DVDs--stuff like this is on the eps there, if it's not on the eps as they air on Netflix/other streaming services with rights to the series).

You commented about Josh's "Thanks, Boss.", to a pic of the now-deceased Leo, at the end of Part II in the Quotes thread. That line, & Brad's delivery of it, got to a lot of us the first time we heard it. It probably still gets to some of us, even now--10 years after John died & almost 10 years after it originally aired.

Edited December 17, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Guest]

You commented about Josh's "Thanks, Boss.", to a pic of the now-deceased Leo, at the end of Part II in the Quotes thread. That line, & Brad's delivery of it, got to a lot of us the first time we heard it. It probably still gets to some of us, even now--10 years after John died & almost 10 years after it originally aired.

 

Not going to lie, that was the one line where I really lost it.  

 

The episode I didn't watch after Election II (because I was a little too emotional) had a description that said it was centered around Leo's funeral. I wonder if they had to write that and shoehorn it in or if the plan had already been to write Leo out.  I feel like it was a reaction so they definitely added that episode, but I could be completely off base.

[BW Manilowe]

Not going to lie, that was the one line where I really lost it.

The episode I didn't watch after Election II (because I was a little too emotional) had a description that said it was centered around Leo's funeral. I wonder if they had to write that and shoehorn it in or if the plan had already been to write Leo out. I feel like it was a reaction so they definitely added that episode, but I could be completely off base.

I don't think they ever planned to write Leo out. I'm not even sure the election would've turned out differently (a lot of sources claimed it would've) if John Spencer (& Leo) had lived to finish out the series.

But I definitely remember reading, in articles which came out upon John's death, that there was rewriting involved, on the episodes written but not shot at the time of his death. Stuff like giving John's/Leo's lines to other characters, where that'd work, or whatever.

So I'm pretty sure this ep *was* written in response to his real life death (like Isaac & Ishmael was a "response" to 9/11). And pretty much everyone at "the old board" agreed the emotions expressed by the characters for Leo were just as much for John from his TWW colleagues & friends (many of them had attended 1 or both funerals for him--I remember their being an East Coast & West Coast 1--& a few of the cast, like Bradley, were actually among his pallbearers at the East [last] funeral)--although at least parts of their verbal remembrances of Leo weren't part of the character's history as Wingnuts/serious viewers knew it from previous seasons (which some objected to).

[Guest]

CJ's face when she had to tell Jed about Leo was heartbreaking.  I also really wanted to see Toby's reaction to the news, so I'm sad they didn't show that.  

 

Yes, John Spencer was already dead in real life by the time Election Day Parts I & II were filmed--those were filmed closer to when the series wrapped production, along with the final 4 (or whatever), left to air after these 2, dealing with Bartlet & his Administration preparing to leave the White House, Vinick adjusting to losing, & the Santos family's life adjustments as they prepare to enter the White House.

 

I realized that was probably the case (which is why I asked) in Election Day when I started to make a joke about all the hook ups between the staff. I almost said "At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Annabeth and Leo hook up next!" and then I realized that was not likely to be the case. :(  

[AriAu]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Annabeth and Leo hook up next!" and then I realized that was not likely to be the case. :(

 

That was hinted at (very cleverly) in Welcome to Wherever We Are.

For me, the image I always have are of Annabeth's little smirk when the agent lets her into the hotel room, his glasses on the desk in the room, the bleakness of Josh and Donna's run through the stark white halls of the hospital and then Annabeth/Chenoweth's mascara streaked face.

If you have not gotten emotional enough, watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9NmVgbM63U

I thought I heard some rumor that she sang it at his funeral or memorial service, but that may have been just a rumor.

 

Oh....by the way Deaja....a few weeks ago you asked if it was as bad as you thought it would be and I think we told you it would be worse....and it was.

Edited December 16, 2015 by AriAu