S08.E08: Mr. & Mrs. Castle

[KaveDweller]

Yes, the "no secrets" thing has worked out well to this point.

I'm going to empty my bank account now and predict there will be no telling him about Rita. The reason? "That's her story to tell." Like that it isn't Becketts place to tell Rita's secret.

The writers saying she's going to be honest is different than Beckett saying it. I'm guessing we won't hear her name until the episode where she's back and then Castle will just know about her with no explanation.

[CastleSeason8]

They dont put as much thought into it as we do. Whatever fits the storyline of the day is what they go with. Obsession, lack of trust...doesnt really matter all that much - neither does canon.

[oberon55]

In this way they absolutely do not have to delve into her sickness and sliding back after they spent all of that time curing her of the obsessiveness.

 

The worst thing they did this season from a character standpoint was rob Beckett of all the growth she had worked so hard to get. To me this was a bigger slap in her face than the Las Vegas marriage bullshit.

[AntiBeeSpray]

They dont put as much thought into it as we do. Whatever fits the storyline of the day is what they go with. Obsession, lack of trust...doesnt really matter all that much - neither does canon.

 

Exactly. It seems as if too many writers these days are doing that as well.

[GoGiants]

I was disappointed but not surprised by the episode. The explanation and apology were as ridiculous and out of character as everything else connected to the Loksat/breakup mess.

 

I actually didn’t catch that they were back together but now fake broken up until I read one of the post episode interviews. I re-watched the clip and still felt that it wasn’t particularly clear from the scene. I love that my understanding of a TV show now comes from post episode interviews.

 

Congratulations to all the people here who were suggesting a fake break up/sneak around storyline back when the blind item was confirmed months ago. I wish the showrunners had gone with this originally. It could’ve been actual fun (not showrunner fun). Also, it would’ve avoided all of the character regression we’ve been treated to this season.

 

I get the idea Hawley thinks letting the characters enjoy sexytimes however brief will be the solution to any problem forget about whether the writing can hold up to any scrutiny or if the moment feels earned or even appropriate to the mood or situation, throw in a bedroom scene or the hint of "naked punishment" and some kissing and that will paper over the inherent weaknesses in the script and lack of substantial character development.  The fans have been starved of those kind of interactions so they'll leap on them like a pack of starving wild animals being thrown some meat, it's not something they're used to seeing. 

100% agreed. Forget about character progression and history or even the emotional tone of the scene (like the last scene of the episode!). As long as those two are making out, everything is good. Lol.

 

“I didn’t realize even how much I needed you until this happened” -Beckett

 

That statement was truly awful. What the what?!? It took this particular incident to realize how much you needed your partner, your friend, your husband? What was going on with her during all of the other moments of their relationship (more importantly what do the writers think was happening between them all these years???)? She only sort of needed him back then? But oh yeah, Loksat really reminded her that she needs Castle. Crazy. Also yuck.  

 

I can’t be mad at Beckett anymore than I can be mad at Castle for the out of character behavior this season. This episode continues the complete disregard for character development and show history that is commonplace in season 8 ( i know I'm a broken record!). It makes some of the meaningful moments over the years seem like crap in light of what is suggested in a scene like this. 

 

I laughed when I saw that the first new episode of 2016 is called “Tone Death”. This show has become completely tone deaf in 8 episodes.

 

I too am relieved the break up is over, no matter how unsatisfying the resolution. Despite all my complaints, the last 2 episodes were the most enjoyable of the season thus far for me (what a sad comment). I'm hoping there's some positive energy left for the rest of the season/series.

Edited November 26, 2015 by GoGiants

[Chado]

The best thing about the episode was that there was no cliffhanger or any sort of lingering interest in anything that was brought up in the episode. It means 10 whole weeks to move on from the show and find other things to watch.

[GoGiants]

One more nitpick to add to those I read earlier in the thread. Did anyone else find it odd that Vikram had a gun in the scene with the trash collector? How does he have legal sanction to carry a gun and train it on a suspect? He’s a tech consultant, not a cop. He looked mighty comfortable with the gun in his hands. I felt like the guy in the first two episodes was a low level analyst and not a trained field agent. He seemed overwhelmed and a bit scared by the early events of the season.

 

I assume this is either more plotline conveniences or one more flashing sign that Vikram is not what he seems. Also, if he’s not a cop, did Beckett outfit him with the gun? That would be a major no-no to me, despite the fact that she’s now captain.

 

I can usually let a lot of this stuff go, but S8 just begs to be picked apart. The incongruities and plot holes this season have been something else.

[CastleSeason8]

I also noticed on rewatch on YouTube a quick "look" between Vikram and Caleb when the new lawyer came into Becketts office before Vikram ran off to "work on his core" (whatever).

That really wouldnt make much sense since it was Vikram who brings Caleb to Kate's attention, but nothing makes sense so you never know - they could be in kahoots.

[verdana]

 

I can usually let a lot of this stuff go, but S8 just begs to be picked apart. The incongruities and plot holes this season have been something else.

Season 8 has been the worst so far for this, it's not something new but i find it's got really bad, no sense of character continuity they're all over the place, screwing up Beckett's healing process that the previous writers made in getting her to this point (if I was Marlowe and I'd be pissed off, I presume he still cares about his creation in some way), massive plot holes and WTF moments that leave my head spinning. It makes it almost impossible to know if things which on other shows might mean something of import should be considered and discussed or is just a case of sloppy writing and coincidence or them having to tweak things to cover over writing fuck ups from earlier. 

 

In this way they absolutely do not have to delve into her sickness and sliding back after they spent all of that time curing her of the obsessiveness.

 

They set it up as something much more fundamental going on within in her at the start of the season and that's looks as if its been thrown in the trash and we're down to trust issues. Then again, probably for the best because I'd hate to think how they were going to deal with anything more complicated and serious in nature, they'd have more than likely upset a whole lot of people with genuine experience of obsessive behaviour and addiction. 

 

That we come back to it being about her inability to share and trust in Castle is a load of bullshit at this stage, that's what makes this whole things so unappealing and tiresome. I don't care how they try to spin this story as them bravely trying something fresh and different as a way of exploring their relationship further, it's doing nothing of the kind, they're going over old ground, the trust issue was been explored already and they moved past that - or so I thought. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by verdana

[madmaverick]

As someone who's been more patient than most with the separation storyline, I have to say that the conclusion here was absolutely terrible and disappointing (even given low expectations).  Worst episode of the season by far.  The reviewers who'd been mostly negative about the season were more positive about this episode, and that just didn't reflect my opinion at all after watching, which is one reason why I don't subscribe to previews and reviews. 

 

Christine Roum did not impress at all.  I thought she was one of the weaker writers on staff so I have no idea why she was given the responsibility for this important episode.  The dialogue was the weakest it has been all season.  One area that I thought this season improved in was dialogue.  There was less in your face boring exposition which really made me zone out in the past, but unfortunately, it returned with a vengeance in this episode.  All the exposition re Locksat was like a dead weight in this episode.  Locksat is a dead weight on the show.  It reinforced my opinion that none of the showrunners past or present have been able to do these kinds of big scale COTW stories well.  And yet they keep doing them! ;)  Their take on conspiracies, druglords, and investigations of such, just comes off as completely amateurish to me.  More laughable than riveting.  And yet they're trying to be all deadly serious when doing these stories (missing the essential ingredient that distinguishes Castle from other crime shows), which makes it all the more mockable, more so than any attempts at comedy to me.  That shot of an actual missile on the computer screen when Vikram and Beckett nuked Castle's computer system... dear lord, how did anyone manage to keep a straight face?  

 

This two person team of Beckett and Vikram trying to bring down this super evil Locksat by themselves is just absurd and illogical on every level.  They might as well have not made Beckett a Captain if they were going to have her make the (bad, not that she seems to think so) choices she's made this season.  Not only on the personal level, but the professional.  It's a mockery of her new leadership position that she's basically running a black ops to take down some super secret big bad, without authority or accountability, with a new guy that she somehow trusts more than all her other partners in her life, who she's brought in on NYPD resources to help do something else.  But I don't expect any of this to result in blowback to her Captaincy.  Per the show's logic, she'll probably get a commendation for her "creative" use of her time at the job. ;)  The show has shown zero interest in examining her new job as Captain in a realistic way, such as storylines to do with challenges as a new boss of old colleagues, the politics and paperwork that come with an admin position.  No, the writers probably found that as boring as delving into Castle's writing. ;)  Instead, Captain Beckett is hands on at just about every crime scene and barely seen doing anything different to when she was a detective.  All that's changed are the superficial trappings of a new office and of course, a new wardrobe. ;) 

 

:Let me touch on the wardrobe for a sec.  I've long given up on Luke dressing the characters in a way that reflects the characters themselves in any real way.  It's always been about the superficial fashion aspect with him.  But Beckett in cheery yellow and having her nails done....was so ill fitting for a character who should be going through an emotional dilemma and heartbreak as much as her husband for what she's doing to him and their marriage.  That's really a big problem I've had with Beckett this season.  Needless to say I didn't agree with her decision to separate, but okay, I tried to empathise with her, I really did.  That would have been easier if Beckett appeared to be suffering under the weight of her decisions... but instead, she almost seems casual and cavalier and lacking in self awareness about it all.  I just haven't been able to get that sense of gravitas or urgency or being torn or enough sincerity from her at all.  No doubt the writing didn't help, but I'm afraid I haven't been getting any of that from Stana's performance either.  The emotional tone has been off in a lot of places.  I wasn't really sold by her in that confrontation scene in 802 with Castle when she said she had to leave, and I didn't find her convincing either in the scene in the interrogation room with Castle or in the closing scene at the loft.  

 

The sad thing about all this is other than this whole storyline leaving a bad taste in my mouth and a bad mark on their marriage, probably due to a mixture of the writing and the acting, I'm finding that a lot of Beckett's words and promises ring hollow with me now.  I'm not sure I trust her at her word.  And that hasn't happened before.  I couldn't believe it when she said to Castle why he couldn't have just trusted her!!  Are you kidding me?!  Again, I was coming from a position of hoping Beckett would make good, or at least make amends, but these kind of words out of her mouth really had me shaking my head.  She wasn't exactly self-righteous but she seemed very confident that she was in the right and that her choices were justified and Castle would see it the same way once she explained.  She didn't seem to harbour any regrets about her choices.  She launched into her justifications but she didn't feel the need to apologise.  She seemed to be completely lacking in any self-awareness at what Castle said to her about her flaws, and that was very disappointing.  She seemed like she was thinking about what he'd said to her there for a minute, but it came across as how she'd been afraid for a minute that she nuked her marriage, but the next minute she was choosing locksat over talking with Castle.  Castle/her marriage doesn't seem to come first.

 

If this were all to happen all over again, sadly, I'm not sure her choices would be any different.  She could lie to her husband again if she thought it justified, she could shut him out if she thought it best, she could pick some bigger cause over her marriage (which she seems to think will always be there no matter what she does).  Basically, she still likes things her way.

 

It almost made me laugh in a very sad way when she came back to the loft at the end and thought she and Castle could move on just like that by her telling him he was right and they could now investigate Locksat together.  Did she really think it would be that simple/easy?  When Castle says it isn't that easy, then she apologises.  Quite late in the game to me, even if I'm minded to forgive. 

 

When Beckett finally said she was sorry that she hurt Castle, unfortunately, what went through my mind was yeah, she's sorry now but it's not going to stop her from doing it again in the future!  It wasn't what she wanted, but it didn't stop her from doing it.  That's a real problem to me.  I'm afraid that all this may have damaged her ILUs to Castle.  She may keep saying she loves the man, but that's not worth much if she isn't above hurting him and lying to him. She may say she's sorry but if she does the same thing again, the apology's not worth much either.  As it stands, I'm just not sure her behaviour will change in the future and that makes me sad.  

 

And I'm not sure if I'll even feel the same about Beckett's easy flirtation going forward either because I certainly wasn't feeling it at the end there.  It just seemed wrong that she came across so carefree after everything.  Same thing last episode with her "I'll see you around" after sleeping together.  Really needed to see some emotional gravitas from Beckett in these moments and that she really, really, really cares about her marriage and Castle, but the moment's probably passed now as they move on from the angst.

 

Her not knowing how much she needed Castle until this happened.  Okay.  Worthy of a Beckett sized eye roll.  Don't make me do this without you?  The laughs continue.  She's the one who cut him out of it in the first place!

 

The issue to me wasn't Beckett losing faith in Castle.  The issue of Beckett choosing Locksat over her marriage, over everything she's built in her life with Castle, and now, risking both their lives for this, wasn't addressed.  Castle should have brought up whether Locksat was worth it after everything they've been through to get to where they are.  But I guess that was a very legitimate question that the writers didn't want to pose because a real answer would get in the way of their furthering the Locksat plot. ;)

 

If they were trying to make Beckett sympathetic with her words to Castle in this episode, I'm afraid they fell well off the mark.  This episode was one where they had characters saying the opposite of what I'd expect them to say if they were well written.  Martha's poor advice was another marked example.  Crossed a line?  Oh dear.  I think the line was well crossed when Beckett pushed for a separation. ;)  They fared better with Castle, and Nathan's quiet restrained anger was working in his performance for me, all until the last 180 abrupt complete change of tone to OK and naked punishing.  Mind boggling.  Only explanation I can think of is that the writers wanted to wrap up the angst and the minutes ran out. ;)  Or they just wanted to let Beckett off the hook already.  Castle really let her off easy in the end.  I knew he would forgive her because he loves her and he takes into consideration that she did it to protect him, but still, this was one episode where they should not have ended it on a jarring note of sexual innuendo.  Reconciliation in the form of a serious, tender moment would have been much better.  

 

This post has been way too long and a bit incoherent, but boy was it cathartic. ;)  Maybe now I'll have better luck confining all the character damage to Beckett in this arc to the Castle place in my head that I never revisit, like the douchebag arc, TS&TQ etc. ;)  

 

I had some expectations of TPW delivering more when he became showrunner, but sadly, he's failed to deliver in some very important areas, characterisation and resolution to say the least.  I had some expectations post-Always that the show would recapture the magic of S1-2 as it would re-energised from writing Caskett in a relationship at last.  In hindsight, I clearly should have harboured no such expectations. ;)  The showrunners, past and present, had run out of ideas about how to write the couple well since the usual WT/WT stage, and all we've gotten since has been mostly mediocrity coasting on some remnant of cast chemistry interspersed with terribly OOC arcs the writers deemed necessary to inject drama and obstacles on the show.  I will keep watching because I still like the actors and yes, the characters provided I block out the damaging bits, and I still 'ship the 'ship, but really best to go into the show expecting little and not taking things like characterisations and arcs seriously. ;)

 

And now I hope to enjoy much better written fanfic over the hiatus to take away the bad taste of this last episode. 

[CastleSeason8]

Madmaverick, except for the part about being patient with this arc (because i never was) your post is dead on. Gosh, i wish AH and co. could read this!

[371012]

Maverick, thank you for saying everything I have been thinking. I have just been shaking my head at how well the episode was received. I personally was so please d when Castle had his say in the break room and I thought his start in the loft was good. I would have been WAY happier if the ending had been along the lines of "this is a good time to get to work and evaluate, now tell me everything you have been doing and we'll see how it goes" and fad to black for two months. NOT naked punishment. That was way too diminishing of a fix for what she did to him. And also diminished his character way way back to just thinking with the wrong brain.

[Julie23]

I was hanging in there in this episode trying to enjoy at least the COTW, and then, THEN, that final scene. When Castle was rightly telling Kate how much she hurt him, etc I was all in, but the scene totally went off the rails with Kate's (I'm paraphrasing her) Don't make me do this without you". Christ on a Cracker Kate, that is exactly what you have been doing for weeks! Then, that casual "OK" and sexy times comment from Castle. Head exploded. Sorry writers, that was NOT a good resolution to weeks of jerking all your viewers around. I would rather keep them apart forever than that lame attempt at redemption.  

[newyawk]

All right. I am back on board with this show. I quit after the first two eps of the season, but bingewatched the rest over the last couple of days.

 

I thought it was interesting that they had Hayley blocking Vikram with cat videos, much like Belgians flooded Twitter feeds with cats in order to frustrate ISIS. I wonder if that was a current events nod or if something really is up with Vikram and he is using Beckett until he doesn't need her anymore and deems her disposable. I like him but it feels like I have seen this movie a few times. Who knows.

 

I wasn't sure about Hayley when she was first added, because I like my established core team, but I now would rather have three Hayleys than one Alexis. I think it's time for Alexis to go study abroad. Somewhere that doesn't much care for the Geneva Convention. Hayley is cool.

 

Castle has no spine when it comes to Beckett, but I don't actually mind. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by newyawk

[CastleSeason8]

'Always' was on last night. Hadnt watched it in awhile. If 'Mr & Mrs Castle' was some kind of homage paid to that S4 ep, they failed so miserably it would be laughable if it wasnt so damn sad.