The West Wing Season Four: Game On!

[Guest]

Wait - isn't 3 eps in one night just a regular Tuesday? :)

 

 

PS - no judgment here for watching 3 eps in one night....

I have found my people.

[BW Manilowe]

Wait - isn't 3 eps in one night just a regular Tuesday? :)

Forget 3 eps--unless that's the number on 1 (1 side of the) DVD. I usually go for broke & watch 1 disc (1 side of the DVD where the discs are double-sided, which was the way at least the 1st 3 individual seasons were released) at a time.

[Moose135]

What... there's nothing wrong with watching three episodes in one night!

 

Three in one night? Slacker...

[marriedaniac]

It sure is interesting seeing newcomers have their first-time experiences.  Makes me nostalgic and can re-ignite a love for the show amongst long time viewers. When my mother was watching season 4, I'm like "ah ok, this is when they started writing Sam out..." I had to prepare her for that.

 

Side note: I only recently watched Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip for the first time. And I liked it!

Edited November 11, 2015 by marriedaniac

[Guest]

"It was a suit and they hit me with an avocado."

"It could have been worse."

"How?"

"it could have hit me."

Oh Toby. You rascal.

I really dislike Zoey's French arrogant boyfriend. #bringbackZoelie

[BW Manilowe]

"It was a suit and they hit me with an avocado."

"It could have been worse."

"How?"

"it could have hit me."

Oh Toby. You rascal.

I really dislike Zoey's French arrogant boyfriend. #bringbackZoelie

I think pretty much everyone really disliked Jean-Paul (Zoey's arrogant French boyfriend). Charlie definitely did (hope that wasn't a huge spoiler for you).

[Guest]

Yeah, they definitely haven't been subtle in the signs that he is not the best. :)

[Bastet]

He was a caricature rather than a character.  I didn’t care one way or the other about the pairing of Zoey and Charlie by then – it seemed like the relationship had run its course – but this new guy was just ridiculous.

[betsyboo]

I really dislike Zoey's French arrogant boyfriend. #bringbackZoelie

Tee! :-))

[Guest]

Amy Gardner as Abby's Chief of Staff makes my distaste for the First Lady grow.

Okay, any Scandal watchers (BetsyBoo, I know you do)... Cyrus Beane is at the White House! Hehe!

[marriedaniac]

You guys just reminded me of the awesome nicknames TWoP used to come up with for Jean-Paul. I think my fave was PIERRE ESCARGOT AWAY

[BizBuzz]

Hey ... that was Thatcher Grey!  ::giggle::
 
So, deaja, you sort of skipped right over the Inauguration episodes ... I don't know what it is about those two episodes, but I love them with all my heart.
 
I am a HUGE Joshua Malina fan, so that was kind of easy to get into.  I loved it when they made him deputy.  

 

I love the whole picking up Donna scene.  Absolutely crack up with this:
 

DONNA
How you doing, Charlie?
CHARLIE
Well, I'm going to win Zoey's heart from Jean-Paul.
DONNA
Excellent.
CHARLIE
'Cause he may be good-looking and rich and well schooled and French royalty, you know, and live basically in a castle, but... Oh, God.
TOBY
This is what I've been telling you. Get in the car.

As many times as I have scene these two episodes in particular, I am forever saying, DON'T GIVE UP CHARLIE!!!

 

Love the sass back Will gives the President on the Kundu situation.  Joshua Malina is pretty good at physical comedy, so that whole scene when he first meets the President was priceless to me.

 

I just love Will in these two episodes.  I know Aaron and Joshua were friends offline way before their careers, and in anything Joshua has been in that Aaron wrote for, you can really tell he KNEW Joshua at the core, and knew how to write for him to bring out his best.

 

I might be alone in my love for Joshua, but I am OK with that.

[Guest]

I love Josh/Will, but I always think of him as David Rosen.  I loved his scenes with the interns where he actually tried teaching them, though credulity is stretched that multiple adult, professional speechwriters all quit their West Wing jobs simultaneously because they didn't like the new deputy.

 

About the inauguration episodes, I enjoyed them for the most part.  I wasn't overwhelmed by them.  The subplot with Donna was pretty dumb, I thought. (And I've come around to mostly enjoying Donna.)  Her taking the fall for something but wanting Josh to figure out that she didn't actually do something seemed very unprofessional. I also thought all the Bible drama was over the top. I like that Danny is figuring out the truth and I love his interactions with CJ.  I'm still a little unsettled by the assassination last season (though I'm not so naive as to think those kinds of things don't actually happen) so I'm glad it wasn't just overlooked.

 

Will's realization that he was going to lose surprised me (unless the show has him pull off a miracle win, which seems unlikely on this show).  I thought they'd have him win so they could write him off that way.  

[Guest]

Also, BizBuzz, it took me forever to stop seeing him as Thatcher Grey and start seeing him as Cyrus Beane.  He's really versatile as an actor!  

 

Fun fact - Joshua Malina was also on Grey's Anatomy as a guest star who refused to poop for his girlfriend or wife (she needed a fecal transplant) until she admitted she was wrong and he was right about an argument. 

 

Back to West Wing more specifically, I'm feeling like Season 4 is less subtle and nuanced than Seasons 1 and 2 specifically.  It's more in your face about the points they are making.

 

I also don't particularly like Toby's storyline with his ex-wife and the babies.  

 

It's still great entertainment, but so far I think this season is a lot weaker.  

[BizBuzz]

I am sure all of us watching your progress deaja are wondering how much you know about Season 4, not the plot line of the series, but what was happening behind the scenes.  I think we could all talk about it, but are afraid to say anything and ruin what is left of the season.

[Guest]

Well, I heard that this is not only Sam's last season, but Aaron Sorkin's as well. So possibly there was some behind the scenes tension impacting the show?  Yes? No? Am I way off in left-field?  

[betsyboo]

I might be alone in my love for Joshua, but I am OK with that.

Nope, count me in.

Well, I heard that this is not only Sam's last season, but Aaron Sorkin's as well. So possibly there was some behind the scenes tension impacting the show?  Yes? No? Am I way off in left-field?  

We will wait until you finish! :-))

[Guest]

Nope, count me in.

We will wait until you finish! :-))

 

Six episodes left....

 

so tomorrow?  ;)

[BizBuzz]

Six episodes left....

 

so tomorrow?  ;)

 

Maybe tonight ... 

 

::giggle::

Nope, count me in.

 

Off topic, but were you a Sports Night fan?  If you have mentioned this, I am sorry, I forgot.

[Bastet]

I also don't particularly like Toby's storyline with his ex-wife and the babies. 

 

It's still great entertainment, but so far I think this season is a lot weaker.

 

I share many of your season four impressions, but especially these two.

I might be alone in my love for Joshua, but I am OK with that.

 

I greatly enjoyed him on Sports Night, even though Jeremy could drive me up a wall, but I don't connect with/get interested in Will.   

[eyebleach]

One of my favorite lines in the whole series comes at the end of season 4.  I'll just wait until you catch up :)

[BizBuzz]

One of my favorite lines in the whole series comes at the end of season 4.  I'll just wait until you catch up :)

 

Ok, now I am dying to know ... does it have anything to do with

Stu Winkle

?

[betsyboo]

Off topic, but were you a Sports Night fan?  If you have mentioned this, I am sorry, I forgot.

 

naturellement! To be honest, I picked it up because of Benson!! 

 

"you should know I play squash three times a week and my calves have been called shapely."

[BizBuzz]

naturellement! To be honest, I picked it up because of Benson!! 

 

"you should know I play squash three times a week and my calves have been called shapely."

 

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

I busted a gut with your quote, thanks for that!!!

[eyebleach]

Ok, now I am dying to know ... does it have anything to do with

Stu Winkle

?

 

No!  But that is a good one!  No it's 

Toby talking to the babies

[AriAu]

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we

have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

Particularly if you knew Benson as the only sane person on Soap...and I am old enough to remember what a big deal it was when Billy Crystal played (que up the shock and horror sounds) a gay man.

eyebleach-mine involved hats

Edited November 12, 2015 by AriAu

[betsyboo]

No!  But that is a good one!  No it's 

Toby talking to the babies

me too!! actually my fave comes in S5, ep1 on the portico.

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

I busted a gut with your quote, thanks for that!!!

Old enough to have watched Benson (with the 'lesser' Gold sister), but young enough to not have watched SOAP. Old enough to have watched the M*A*S*H finale in real time with my older brother, young enough to not have seen the movie until the advent of the VCR. #longliveHotLips

[BizBuzz]

No!  But that is a good one!  No it's 

Toby talking to the babies

 

OMG ... Forgot totally about that, and YES, that wins!

 

Particularly if you knew Benson as the only sane person on Soap...and I am old enough to remember what a big deal it was when Billy Crystal played (que up the shock and horror sounds) a gay man.

eyebleach-mine involved hats

 

Soap was MUST SEE TV for me ... OMG ... I think we share birthdays (or close to it).

 

me too!! actually my fave comes in S5, ep1 on the portico.

Old enough to have watched Benson (with the 'lesser' Gold sister), but young enough to not have watched SOAP. Old enough to have watched the M*A*S*H finale in real time with my older brother, young enough to not have seen the movie until the advent of the VCR. #longliveHotLips

 

YES ... you are correct ... that scene is all kinds of awesome.  

 

Ok, there are some years between us.  I was just venturing into adulthood with Soap.  MASH finale, I was an avid MASH fan. Close enough.

[eyebleach]

yeah - here's an interesting question...not really TWW relevant but curious none the less.  How old are you guys?  And are you politically active?

 

I'm 42 and I have been involved in politics since I was a kid.  I sold potholders for Jimmy Carter when I was 7 and I worked for David Plouffe when I was in college.  I'm a big time political geek.

[BizBuzz]

I don't want to turn anyone off, but no, not politically active (although my Mom is, and that is another story all together), but have always been intrigued by political dramas and such.

 

53.

[Guest]

35 and kind of.

[AriAu]

54 and pretty active, especially now that my children are getting involved and I need to keep up.

Yes, I did want to be Sam or Josh and did get involved in a couple of campaigns for people who were not elected but ended up in the background of the Clinton and Obama  White Houses.  

[betsyboo]

45 and somewhat. Have to know things at the state level for my job, but not necessarily federal except for the biggies.

 

This show hit all of my sweet spots at just the right time in my life. I still remember watching the pilot - and at that point, the President was supposed to be the background character. And as I watched Martin Sheen just obliterate Mary Marsh at the end, I called my mother to rehash and we both agreed Martin Sheen couldn't go anywhere.  I think, regardless of how much you loved/liked/hated/loved-to-hate The West Wing, you'd be hard pressed to not find it among the top five best-cast shows of all time. (IMHO)

 

ADDICTED to the political thriller. Moreso books than TV (Clancy, Baldacci, Flynn)

[Guest]

Evidence of Things Not Seen. Wow.

I didn't like Privateers, but this one is making up for it.

Matthew Perry as White House counsel? Cool.

[eyebleach]

I didn't like Privateers, but this one is making up for it.

 

 

oh but Privateers has CJ coming completely undone in a way that makes me laugh just thinking about.  

 

"this thing that just happened with the deficit" 

 

 

I just had a much needed good laugh.

[Bastet]

God, how could I have completely forgotten that scene?  I love CJ, I like Amy, and, more relevantly, I think Allison Janney is tied with Gillian Anderson for the greatest laugh in the history of civilization.  But that rang absolutely no bells.  The aliens have stolen my memories!  Oh, wrong show.  Maybe I was drunk when I watched this episode originally (I have yet to watch my season four DVDs, so it has been a very long time since I've seen it).

[AriAu]

Thanks for the laugh. I can't decide is Marian Cotesworth Hay played by one of the Monty Python guys (likely Eric Idle) or by Martin Short during the classic SNL sketch where he is meeting with the Royal Gynecologist

 

https://screen.yahoo.com/royal-family-doctor-000000732.html

[Guest]

The jerk face drugs Zoey and she is kidnapped? Ugh I hate him. Maybe things would have gone differently if she hadn't been drugged!!!

Ugh. I'm so mad.

The scene of Leo running to find Bartlett.... Feeling lots of feels.

[Guest]

Toby named his daughter after the dead agent?!??

I'm very emotional tonight in general (close friend's funeral was today) and this show is making it worse!!!

[betsyboo]

Toby named his daughter after the dead agent?!??

I'm very emotional tonight in general (close friend's funeral was today) and this show is making it worse!!!

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Perhaps these eps are not for you. They get worse. :-( xoxoxo

 

(Molly for the win. That leads to my fave line: "I've known my kids 45 minutes and I'd napalm Yellowstone if I had to!" <paraphrase>)

[Guest]

Yes, when Toby came running in with his realization that the President needed to step down, it was funny. He was just a little behind.

And I loved when he announced the twins like "oh by the way."

I really dislike Abby Bartlett and it's getting worse. The President should have consulted you before deciding on the assassination? She was way over the line in Privateers, but she just keeps going with it. I would excuse it as stress over Zoey if she weren't already in that pattern. (Now I'm having trouble remembering if that may have actually been Season 5? They run together.) I can edit if needed, Biz Buzz.

[Guest]

Wait wait wait. This just occurred to me. Aaron Sorkin left the show with Zoey missing and the POTUS not the POTUS? Was this an Amy Sherman-Palladino move at the time?

[DebbieW]

I also disliked the First Lady during this time.  I remember yelling at the TV "No one elected you, bitch!"

[Guest]

I also disliked the First Lady during this time. I remember yelling at the TV "No one elected you, bitch!"

When she had Amy working against Bartlet's foreign aid package, I think I said that to the screen. ;)

[txhorns79]

Wait wait wait. This just occurred to me. Aaron Sorkin left the show with Zoey missing and the POTUS not the POTUS? Was this an Amy Sherman-Palladino move at the time?

 

I'll defend him a small bit, and say he actually did a good job of setting everything in place for the finale.  They really just had no idea what to do with any of it during the fifth season, so things kind of lurch around a bit until they get Zoey back.     

[Guest]

I am sure all of us watching your progress deaja are wondering how much you know about Season 4, not the plot line of the series, but what was happening behind the scenes.  I think we could all talk about it, but are afraid to say anything and ruin what is left of the season.

 

So.... anyone interested in revisiting this discussion? Now that I'm safely in Season 5 and Zoe is safe and sound?

[betsyboo]

oh but Privateers has CJ coming completely undone in a way that makes me laugh just thinking about.  

 

"this thing that just happened with the deficit" 

 

 

I just had a much needed good laugh.

eyebleach!! ICYMI, your scene is up for King today!!!

[betsyboo]

So.... anyone interested in revisiting this discussion? Now that I'm safely in Season 5 and Zoe is safe and sound?

 

From The Hollywood Reporter (I am not linking the entire article because it contains spoilers for the rest of the series. )

May, 2014

NBC executives stood before a sea of media buyers in Avery Fisher Hall 15 years ago this month and unveiled a series they hoped would defy television's odds. The show, titled The West Wing, from Sports Night producers Aaron Sorkin and Thomas Schlamme, would explore the personal and professional lives of those in the White House who worked directly for the President of the United States. And if viewers embraced it, the drama would become the first White House drama in the medium's history to succeed.

<snip>

SORKIN: Tommy and I had been discussing our exits from the show since the third season. It was an impossible decision because we'd built a home for ourselves and even felt like we kind of had kids — although by then we both actually had kids — but we also knew that it was time to do whatever we were going to do next and give the show to fresh legs. On a rainy day in late March, we asked our publicists to work with the publicists at Warners to draft a press release. We gathered the cast in the Roosevelt Room and told them that this was our last episode. We didn't plan it this way, but the next scene they had to shoot was Bartlet resigning and John Goodman being sworn in.

SCHLAMME: When that decision was made, it was very quick. We're talking 24 hours. I remember it being an unbelievably difficult thing.

JANNEY: We all felt kicked in the stomach. We felt like we were being abandoned by our parents. We didn't understand it, we didn't want it to happen and there was nothing we could do about it.

SCHIFF: I pitched an idea to both to them: "You know what would be amazing? If we lost [the election]. Just imagine. No one would be expecting it. We would lose and we're gone. That's the end of it." Tommy said that was actually an amazing idea but the network and studio would never go for it because they have to make their money back.

ROTH: It was a very difficult experience for all of us. The only thing that mitigated it was the fact that we had John Wells, who brilliantly took over. I've thought a lot about what happened during the course of it, things like overages and late material, and you ask yourself: "What happened?" When I really think back, what happened most especially was the country changed post-9/11.

WHITFORD: We were like Branch Davidians and David Koresh left. I think John would tell you that he felt like the first year after Aaron left that we tried to do the show the way Aaron would do it, which was a mistake. But I remember John gathered us all there [after Aaron and Tommy had left]. He stood up and he said, "Jesus, I feel like Ethel Merman's understudy."

WELLS: We were all scared to death. The obvious concern that everybody had was, would the quality suffer dramatically while we were trying to learn on our feet how the show was going to operate without Aaron and Tommy? There were episodes that I thought we did very successfully and then ones that were kind of pale imitations. I remember saying to [Aaron] when I took over: "Aaron, you wrote a cliffhanger. What happens next?" And he said, "I haven't any idea." That wasn't a good moment.

SORKIN: At the time I'd been reading stories about Rapturists -- people who want to hasten the end of the world by creating the appearance of an international incident so that there'd be an international incident. I decided that's what happened to Zoey but we wouldn't know that until the start of next season. In my mind, Nancy McNally [Anna Deavere Smith] was right when she said we'd find Zoey tied to a chair in the back of a muffler shop upstate. But I wasn't as interested in the thriller aspect as I was in the suddenly powerless president whose daughter's life is in danger. Are he and his wife being kept under guard in the East Wing? Blair House? A hotel? And what if Bartlet didn't like some of the commands that were being given by his temporary successor and he gave Leo a contradictory instruction? Would Leo be loyal to the Constitution as Bartlet promises his Cabinet he will be? What if Josh or C.J. or God forbid, Fitzwallace [John Amos], decides to be loyal to Bartlet? In my mind we'd explore all those things over the course of one long night-into-day-into-night at the White House. When I left the show I didn't leave any instructions or last wishes. I wanted John and the new writers to do what they wanted and not have to write someone else's idea.

 

[PeterPirate]

SORKIN: At the time I'd been reading stories about Rapturists -- people who want to hasten the end of the world by creating the appearance of an international incident so that there'd be an international incident. I decided that's what happened to Zoey but we wouldn't know that until the start of next season. In my mind, Nancy McNally [Anna Deavere Smith] was right when she said we'd find Zoey tied to a chair in the back of a muffler shop upstate.

 

 

Aaron Sorkin talked about his intentions in the commentaries to Commencement and Twenty-Five. I am very glad that the storyline did not play out that way. 

[eyebleach]

eyebleach!! ICYMI, your scene is up for King today!!!

 

HOW THE HELL IS IT LOSING??????  HELP ME PEOPLE!!!!! :)