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The West Wing Season Four: Game On!

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DebbieW
DebbieW

I also disliked the First Lady during this time.  I remember yelling at the TV "No one elected you, bitch!"

marriedaniac

marriedaniac

(edited)

It sure is interesting seeing newcomers have their first-time experiences.  Makes me nostalgic and can re-ignite a love for the show amongst long time viewers. When my mother was watching season 4, I'm like "ah ok, this is when they started writing Sam out..." I had to prepare her for that.

 

Side note: I only recently watched Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip for the first time. And I liked it!

Edited by marriedaniac
BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

"It was a suit and they hit me with an avocado."

"It could have been worse."

"How?"

"it could have hit me."

Oh Toby. You rascal.

I really dislike Zoey's French arrogant boyfriend. #bringbackZoelie

I think pretty much everyone really disliked Jean-Paul (Zoey's arrogant French boyfriend). Charlie definitely did (hope that wasn't a huge spoiler for you).

BizBuzz

BizBuzz

Hey ... that was Thatcher Grey!  ::giggle::
 
So, deaja, you sort of skipped right over the Inauguration episodes ... I don't know what it is about those two episodes, but I love them with all my heart.
 
I am a HUGE Joshua Malina fan, so that was kind of easy to get into.  I loved it when they made him deputy.  

 

I love the whole picking up Donna scene.  Absolutely crack up with this:
 

DONNA
How you doing, Charlie?
CHARLIE
Well, I'm going to win Zoey's heart from Jean-Paul.
DONNA
Excellent.
CHARLIE
'Cause he may be good-looking and rich and well schooled and French royalty, you know, and live basically in a castle, but... Oh, God.
TOBY
This is what I've been telling you. Get in the car.


As many times as I have scene these two episodes in particular, I am forever saying, DON'T GIVE UP CHARLIE!!!

 

Love the sass back Will gives the President on the Kundu situation.  Joshua Malina is pretty good at physical comedy, so that whole scene when he first meets the President was priceless to me.

 

I just love Will in these two episodes.  I know Aaron and Joshua were friends offline way before their careers, and in anything Joshua has been in that Aaron wrote for, you can really tell he KNEW Joshua at the core, and knew how to write for him to bring out his best.

 

I might be alone in my love for Joshua, but I am OK with that.

Guest

Guest

I love Josh/Will, but I always think of him as David Rosen.  I loved his scenes with the interns where he actually tried teaching them, though credulity is stretched that multiple adult, professional speechwriters all quit their West Wing jobs simultaneously because they didn't like the new deputy.

 

About the inauguration episodes, I enjoyed them for the most part.  I wasn't overwhelmed by them.  The subplot with Donna was pretty dumb, I thought. (And I've come around to mostly enjoying Donna.)  Her taking the fall for something but wanting Josh to figure out that she didn't actually do something seemed very unprofessional. I also thought all the Bible drama was over the top. I like that Danny is figuring out the truth and I love his interactions with CJ.  I'm still a little unsettled by the assassination last season (though I'm not so naive as to think those kinds of things don't actually happen) so I'm glad it wasn't just overlooked.

 

Will's realization that he was going to lose surprised me (unless the show has him pull off a miracle win, which seems unlikely on this show).  I thought they'd have him win so they could write him off that way.  

Guest

Guest

Also, BizBuzz, it took me forever to stop seeing him as Thatcher Grey and start seeing him as Cyrus Beane.  He's really versatile as an actor!  

 

Fun fact - Joshua Malina was also on Grey's Anatomy as a guest star who refused to poop for his girlfriend or wife (she needed a fecal transplant) until she admitted she was wrong and he was right about an argument. 

 

Back to West Wing more specifically, I'm feeling like Season 4 is less subtle and nuanced than Seasons 1 and 2 specifically.  It's more in your face about the points they are making.

 

I also don't particularly like Toby's storyline with his ex-wife and the babies.  

 

It's still great entertainment, but so far I think this season is a lot weaker.  

Bastet

Bastet

I also don't particularly like Toby's storyline with his ex-wife and the babies. 

 

It's still great entertainment, but so far I think this season is a lot weaker.

 

I share many of your season four impressions, but especially these two.

I might be alone in my love for Joshua, but I am OK with that.

 

I greatly enjoyed him on Sports Night, even though Jeremy could drive me up a wall, but I don't connect with/get interested in Will.   

BizBuzz

BizBuzz

naturellement! To be honest, I picked it up because of Benson!! 

 

"you should know I play squash three times a week and my calves have been called shapely."

 

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

I busted a gut with your quote, thanks for that!!!

AriAu

AriAu

(edited)

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we

have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

Particularly if you knew Benson as the only sane person on Soap...and I am old enough to remember what a big deal it was when Billy Crystal played (que up the shock and horror sounds) a gay man.

eyebleach-mine involved hats

Edited by AriAu
betsyboo

betsyboo

No!  But that is a good one!  No it's 

Toby talking to the babies

me too!! actually my fave comes in S5, ep1 on the portico.

BENSON!!!  How old are you (you don't have to answer that), but girl, we have to be pushing the same age for you to know BENSON!

 

I busted a gut with your quote, thanks for that!!!

Old enough to have watched Benson (with the 'lesser' Gold sister), but young enough to not have watched SOAP. Old enough to have watched the M*A*S*H finale in real time with my older brother, young enough to not have seen the movie until the advent of the VCR. #longliveHotLips

BizBuzz

BizBuzz

No!  But that is a good one!  No it's 

Toby talking to the babies

 

OMG ... Forgot totally about that, and YES, that wins!

 

Particularly if you knew Benson as the only sane person on Soap...and I am old enough to remember what a big deal it was when Billy Crystal played (que up the shock and horror sounds) a gay man.

eyebleach-mine involved hats

 

Soap was MUST SEE TV for me ... OMG ... I think we share birthdays (or close to it).

 

me too!! actually my fave comes in S5, ep1 on the portico.

Old enough to have watched Benson (with the 'lesser' Gold sister), but young enough to not have watched SOAP. Old enough to have watched the M*A*S*H finale in real time with my older brother, young enough to not have seen the movie until the advent of the VCR. #longliveHotLips

 

YES ... you are correct ... that scene is all kinds of awesome.  

 

Ok, there are some years between us.  I was just venturing into adulthood with Soap.  MASH finale, I was an avid MASH fan. Close enough.

eyebleach

eyebleach

yeah - here's an interesting question...not really TWW relevant but curious none the less.  How old are you guys?  And are you politically active?

 

I'm 42 and I have been involved in politics since I was a kid.  I sold potholders for Jimmy Carter when I was 7 and I worked for David Plouffe when I was in college.  I'm a big time political geek.

betsyboo

betsyboo

45 and somewhat. Have to know things at the state level for my job, but not necessarily federal except for the biggies.

 

This show hit all of my sweet spots at just the right time in my life. I still remember watching the pilot - and at that point, the President was supposed to be the background character. And as I watched Martin Sheen just obliterate Mary Marsh at the end, I called my mother to rehash and we both agreed Martin Sheen couldn't go anywhere.  I think, regardless of how much you loved/liked/hated/loved-to-hate The West Wing, you'd be hard pressed to not find it among the top five best-cast shows of all time. (IMHO)

 

ADDICTED to the political thriller. Moreso books than TV (Clancy, Baldacci, Flynn)

Bastet

Bastet

God, how could I have completely forgotten that scene?  I love CJ, I like Amy, and, more relevantly, I think Allison Janney is tied with Gillian Anderson for the greatest laugh in the history of civilization.  But that rang absolutely no bells.  The aliens have stolen my memories!  Oh, wrong show.  Maybe I was drunk when I watched this episode originally (I have yet to watch my season four DVDs, so it has been a very long time since I've seen it).

betsyboo

betsyboo

Toby named his daughter after the dead agent?!??

I'm very emotional tonight in general (close friend's funeral was today) and this show is making it worse!!!

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Perhaps these eps are not for you. They get worse. :-( xoxoxo

 

(Molly for the win. That leads to my fave line: "I've known my kids 45 minutes and I'd napalm Yellowstone if I had to!" <paraphrase>)

Guest

Guest

Yes, when Toby came running in with his realization that the President needed to step down, it was funny. He was just a little behind.

And I loved when he announced the twins like "oh by the way."

I really dislike Abby Bartlett and it's getting worse. The President should have consulted you before deciding on the assassination? She was way over the line in Privateers, but she just keeps going with it. I would excuse it as stress over Zoey if she weren't already in that pattern. (Now I'm having trouble remembering if that may have actually been Season 5? They run together.) I can edit if needed, Biz Buzz.

txhorns79

txhorns79

Wait wait wait. This just occurred to me. Aaron Sorkin left the show with Zoey missing and the POTUS not the POTUS? Was this an Amy Sherman-Palladino move at the time?

 

I'll defend him a small bit, and say he actually did a good job of setting everything in place for the finale.  They really just had no idea what to do with any of it during the fifth season, so things kind of lurch around a bit until they get Zoey back.     

Guest

Guest

I am sure all of us watching your progress deaja are wondering how much you know about Season 4, not the plot line of the series, but what was happening behind the scenes.  I think we could all talk about it, but are afraid to say anything and ruin what is left of the season.

 

So.... anyone interested in revisiting this discussion? Now that I'm safely in Season 5 and Zoe is safe and sound?

betsyboo

betsyboo

So.... anyone interested in revisiting this discussion? Now that I'm safely in Season 5 and Zoe is safe and sound?

 

From The Hollywood Reporter (I am not linking the entire article because it contains spoilers for the rest of the series. )

May, 2014

NBC executives stood before a sea of media buyers in Avery Fisher Hall 15 years ago this month and unveiled a series they hoped would defy television's odds. The show, titled The West Wing, from Sports Night producers Aaron Sorkin and Thomas Schlamme, would explore the personal and professional lives of those in the White House who worked directly for the President of the United States. And if viewers embraced it, the drama would become the first White House drama in the medium's history to succeed.

<snip>

SORKIN: Tommy and I had been discussing our exits from the show since the third season. It was an impossible decision because we'd built a home for ourselves and even felt like we kind of had kids — although by then we both actually had kids — but we also knew that it was time to do whatever we were going to do next and give the show to fresh legs. On a rainy day in late March, we asked our publicists to work with the publicists at Warners to draft a press release. We gathered the cast in the Roosevelt Room and told them that this was our last episode. We didn't plan it this way, but the next scene they had to shoot was Bartlet resigning and John Goodman being sworn in.

SCHLAMME: When that decision was made, it was very quick. We're talking 24 hours. I remember it being an unbelievably difficult thing.

JANNEY: We all felt kicked in the stomach. We felt like we were being abandoned by our parents. We didn't understand it, we didn't want it to happen and there was nothing we could do about it.

SCHIFF: I pitched an idea to both to them: "You know what would be amazing? If we lost [the election]. Just imagine. No one would be expecting it. We would lose and we're gone. That's the end of it." Tommy said that was actually an amazing idea but the network and studio would never go for it because they have to make their money back.

ROTH: It was a very difficult experience for all of us. The only thing that mitigated it was the fact that we had John Wells, who brilliantly took over. I've thought a lot about what happened during the course of it, things like overages and late material, and you ask yourself: "What happened?" When I really think back, what happened most especially was the country changed post-9/11.

WHITFORD: We were like Branch Davidians and David Koresh left. I think John would tell you that he felt like the first year after Aaron left that we tried to do the show the way Aaron would do it, which was a mistake. But I remember John gathered us all there [after Aaron and Tommy had left]. He stood up and he said, "Jesus, I feel like Ethel Merman's understudy."

WELLS: We were all scared to death. The obvious concern that everybody had was, would the quality suffer dramatically while we were trying to learn on our feet how the show was going to operate without Aaron and Tommy? There were episodes that I thought we did very successfully and then ones that were kind of pale imitations. I remember saying to [Aaron] when I took over: "Aaron, you wrote a cliffhanger. What happens next?" And he said, "I haven't any idea." That wasn't a good moment.

SORKIN: At the time I'd been reading stories about Rapturists -- people who want to hasten the end of the world by creating the appearance of an international incident so that there'd be an international incident. I decided that's what happened to Zoey but we wouldn't know that until the start of next season. In my mind, Nancy McNally [Anna Deavere Smith] was right when she said we'd find Zoey tied to a chair in the back of a muffler shop upstate. But I wasn't as interested in the thriller aspect as I was in the suddenly powerless president whose daughter's life is in danger. Are he and his wife being kept under guard in the East Wing? Blair House? A hotel? And what if Bartlet didn't like some of the commands that were being given by his temporary successor and he gave Leo a contradictory instruction? Would Leo be loyal to the Constitution as Bartlet promises his Cabinet he will be? What if Josh or C.J. or God forbid, Fitzwallace [John Amos], decides to be loyal to Bartlet? In my mind we'd explore all those things over the course of one long night-into-day-into-night at the White House. When I left the show I didn't leave any instructions or last wishes. I wanted John and the new writers to do what they wanted and not have to write someone else's idea.

 

PeterPirate

PeterPirate

SORKIN: At the time I'd been reading stories about Rapturists -- people who want to hasten the end of the world by creating the appearance of an international incident so that there'd be an international incident. I decided that's what happened to Zoey but we wouldn't know that until the start of next season. In my mind, Nancy McNally [Anna Deavere Smith] was right when she said we'd find Zoey tied to a chair in the back of a muffler shop upstate.

 

 

Aaron Sorkin talked about his intentions in the commentaries to Commencement and Twenty-Five. I am very glad that the storyline did not play out that way. 

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