Spoiler Discussion Thread

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Point of policy about actors' bodies:  This issue has come up on other forums in the past, so the expanded mod group has had a chance to get clarity from Dave.  

It's generally ok to talk about an actor's body on PTV forums so long as that commentary doesn't expand to broader discussions that are racist, sexist, homophobic or otherwise assholish.  We will generally not play "nice police" if the snarkiness is specifically directed at a character or an actor rather than at whole groups of society (or specific fandoms).  

Example:

Acceptable comment*: "Stephen Amell needs to lay off the craft services because he looks like the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man."

Unacceptable comment: "Ugh, fatties are useless, lazy slobs. I would like to throw cream puffs at them until they cry."

Some of you might not think it's cool to say: "Man, [Real Housewife #12] looks like an angry howler monkey in that outfit."  (I personally will snark on fictional characters, but try not to be overly harsh about real life people.)  But in terms of site policy, it's OK for other people to make that type of comment.  You can disagree with that view, but it's not really up to posters to tell other posters how they can and can't post. 

If you think someone's posts have crossed the line, please report them.  The mods will look at it and try to make a decision that balances the desire not to have an over-modded Stalinist repressive state (like certain over-enthusiastically modded on other sites) against the desire to ensure we don't have a hatey, trollish, post-apocalyptic, YouTuber wasteland. 

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

Acceptable comment*: "Stephen Amell needs to lay off the craft services because he looks like the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man."

Quote

 

Some of you might not think it's cool to say: "Man, [Real Housewife #12] looks like an angry howler monkey in that outfit." 

That is some funny shit...I'm going to find a reason to use Stay Puff and Howler Monkey at some point.

[Chaser]

Can I say someone looks like a Butt Monkey? Or should I just call them Xanders? 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Can I say someone looks like a Butt Monkey? Or should I just call them Xanders? 

As long as that person is not another poster, go for your life. :)

[Guest]

Arrow filming hospital scenes...I'm gonna guess either Lyla maybe gets hurt and that brings Diggle home, or maybe Diggle is injured? IDK. I'm trying to make sense of DR not filming yet.

Or maybe one of the newbie vigilantes has a boo boo.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited July 15, 2016 by Guest

[HighHopes]

I'm not positive, but I don't think that's the same location they have used for previous hospital scenes? So maybe it's a different hospital (Diggle) or flashbacks? That, or they lost some locations and had to find new ones? 

Nothing has really made me want to tune into this season yet. No Team Arrow, little info on Felicity, and I am one of the few who have never really been interested in the Bratva storyline... 

[Guest]

Okay so I clicked on the tweet and some of the replies said that EK was there and, according to his snapchat, WH and EBR are there too, although I don't know if that confirms they're filming with him.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Guest

[kismet]

I'm still holding onto my theory that Diggle will be injured and that is how he returns to SC and is let out of his military contract.

It would then hold that it would take him a few episodes to return to the team (just like every other injured TA member in the past). It would also hold that he might then need some encouragement from TA (likely via FS) to return.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Okay so I clicked on the tweet and some of the replies said that EK was filming and according to his snapchat, WH and EBR are there too, although I don't know if that confirms they're filming with him.

Goodbye Paul, you sweet prince.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Goodbye Paul, you sweet prince.  

DON'T.

*hangs head reluctantly* Yeah... Bye, Paul. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Guest

[thegirlsleuth]

6 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not positive, but I don't think that's the same location they have used for previous hospital scenes? So maybe it's a different hospital (Diggle) or flashbacks? That, or they lost some locations and had to find new ones? 

Nothing has really made me want to tune into this season yet. No Team Arrow, little info on Felicity, and I am one of the few who have never really been interested in the Bratva storyline... 

I'm with you.  I feel like when Oliver attacked the general at the end of Season 3 he was on the way to being the killer we saw in season one, but they backed off.  I probably shouldn't have had any expectations to begin with--they are on the CW at 8:00 pm, not cable at 10 pm.

Also, with the hospital spoiler, I now fear for Paul's life.

[wonderwall]

It's all the newbies... *sigh*

[apinknightmare]

SOURCE IT! ?

[AyChihuahua]

Who is the girl switching faces with Echo?

[Guest]

Okay, some of the tweets I saw have been deleted so it looks like maybe EBR wasn't there. Definitely WH though.

All the newbies and no mentions of DR or EBR does not excite me in the slightest. Arrow, WYD?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

Best case scenario... It's Diggle in the hospital, and the reason why we don't see Stephen/Emily in that BTS is because they're in the hospital room with Diggle.

Worst case scenario... Paul :(

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

Who is the girl switching faces with Echo?

Baby Canary. 

Why do their shirts match? And what do they say? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[kismet]

Well if they kill Paul in the first episode, at least that will speed up the inevitable. I can't imagine they will give Curtis a mask with no major death to motivate him.

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Who is the girl switching faces with Echo?

I think it might be Baby Canary.

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Baby Canary. 

Why do their shirts match? And what do they say? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

I see an e. Guessing something to do with Oliver being mayor? Or maybe Palmer, but all three newbies seem to be wearing them, so maybe like an Oliver Queen Inaugural day of service or something.

I think we're going to see how ratings react to no/very little OTA and Olicity for a bit. Should be interesting.

It looks like maybe an m next to the e, so Palmer? Maybe Felicity got the company back and they all work there now? Company picnic?

Edited July 15, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I'm guessing the strategically placed "Awsome" is for spoilers. Assholes!

[AyChihuahua]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm guessing the strategically placed "Awsome" is for spoilers. Assholes!

Definitely. Echo is a tricky bastard.

[HighHopes]

Source for the photo-- I can make out an 'm' and an 'e'? So maybe it is something to do with Palmer Tech? 

They filmed in New Westminster and Surrey recently (different suburbs of Vancouver), and I don't think they have filmed there before...So at least we are getting new location sets this season?? 

[thegirlsleuth]

32 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I see an e. Guessing something to do with Oliver being mayor? Or maybe Palmer, but all three newbies seem to be wearing them, so maybe like an Oliver Queen Inaugural day of service or something.

I think we're going to see how ratings react to no/very little OTA and Olicity for a bit. Should be interesting.

It looks like maybe an m next to the e, so Palmer? Maybe Felicity got the company back and they all work there now? Company picnic?

[Edited by mod: deleting speculation as to what other fans will say.]

I worry that they think the problem in season 4b is that Diggle and Felicity's storyline was too much a focus and are now "correcting".  No, the problem was that dumpster fire of a baby mama story and the fact that they made Damien Darhk ineffective as a villain.   

Edited July 15, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[AyChihuahua]

22 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

[Edited by mod: deleting speculation as to what other fans will say.]  

I worry that they think the problem in season 4b is that Diggle and Felicity's storyline was too much a focus and are now "correcting".  No, the problem was that dumpster fire of a baby mama story and the fact that they may Damien Darhk ineffective as a villain.   

I thought that, but it was pointed out to me that they had a good number of post-death episodes with fine ratings. She died in 18, right? (It was all so dumb it's just a blur and I am not rewatching for less than $1000.) So 19 was the funeral episode (garbage fire episode, fine ratings), 20 (fun, fine ratings), and 21-23 (boring as shit, nonsensical, fine ratings). So leaving out the funeral episode, ppl who quit specifically bc of that death would mostly not have watched 20-23. 

I don't work in tv, but I think the network, etc., has so much more info and therefore a much more informed understanding of ratings. I don't THINK a drop would be attributed to Laurel's death at this point, esp. if the premier does fine, but has no OTA/Olicity and ratings drop precipitously.

For the record, I suck at predicting ratings. I will NEVER EVER EVER understand how ratings in S3 stayed so steady. I had literal rage insomnia for months and skipped like 2/3rds of the season.  

[kismet]

I think the shirts look like holdovers from the Queen for Mayor design. Maybe Queen will have an official election w/ shirts and everything in 501.

And at the end there will be a major event that will get Paul in the hospital and most likely the cemetery.

[kismet]

Even if the ratings tank [Edited by mod: fan reaction], they aren't bringing KC or LL back. It appeared that they hated writing for the character, perhaps even the actress. Her storylines diminished in the 4 yrs she was there. A majority of her lines & arcs could be read as more caricature than character. She was replaced in her LI role, her BC role (twice) and now they kept the younger version of her role. They have their statue and their legacy. I'm not worried about the ratings tanking and it bringing back LL.

Perhaps if the ratings tank with the newbies and rise with OTA, then perhaps TPTB will see what resonates with the audience and what does not.

Edited July 15, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[apinknightmare]

 They should know by now what resonates with audiences. They have the data on that. And by the time we see it and they get the numbers, they'll already be close to filming the MSF, so what course correction are they gonna do? Fingers crossed the newbies aren't around often/for long. 

[Thundercatmary]

9 minutes ago, kismet said:

Perhaps if the ratings tank with the newbies and rise with OTA, then perhaps TPTB will see what resonates with the audience and what does not.

Maybe i'm clueless idk but can they really be unaware of OTA popularity? [Edited by mod: fan talk.] If they are aware and just don't care then that's a dangerous game to play, there's no guarantee you can get those viewers back later if they reverse course. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[way2interested]

It's not the idea that TPTB would attribute ratings tanking to Laurel dying, but people who already hate on the show will feel vilified thinking that it's all because Laurel died. The last few episodes had low viewership (while retaining relatively stable, if not slightly on the low side, ratings) which people already attributed to Laurel, instead of attributing it to other possible factors (such as breaking up the main couple for plot reasons, along with a too-large nuke plot, along with preemptions, along with x amount of factors that get people to watch/not watch). I honestly would rather the ratings not tank but remain stagnant and then only increase once episodes hint at OTA/Olicity positive moments.

[wonderwall]

The mods are hard at work I can see :p

[Sunshine]

Per SA's FB live, they are shooting 5.01 & 5.02 which might be why we are seeing so many masks BTS.  

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The mods are hard at work I can see :p

On the plus side for you guys, I was off snorkeling when you guys were posting the "off topic even by the loose standards of the Arrow Spoiler Discussion thread" Pokemon Go posts.  :P

[wonderwall]

Just now, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

On the plus side for you guys, I was off snorkeling when you guys were posting the "off topic even by the loose standards of the Arrow Spoiler Discussion thread" Pokemon Go posts.  :P

I feel so blessed!

[kismet]

Well they've known a lot for 4 years and managed to muck a lot up. They know about OTAs popularity, but they also have thought they could play roulette  the audience and write crappy story arcs like BMD. I think they've gotten too comfortable with the fact that their audience is extremely loyal. A little bit of ratings shake might not be the worse thing for the show.

For me very little of what they have suggested for s5 seems like something that will draw people in. They have managed to kill a lot of my interest in their stories. Until I hear other spoilers, I'm basically here for a shirtless OQ & Bratva. They seem to have forgotten about Dig & FS, or at least the FS & Dig that I liked. As for Olicity, I can only hope they pay attention to the fact that they are better together and drama free.

Worrying about how other people are going to attribute a ratings dip is not something I worry myself with. Haters are going to hate.

[way2interested]

Just now, kismet said:

 A little bit of ratings shake might not be the worse thing for the show.

For me very little of what they have suggested for s5 seems like something that will draw people in. They have managed to kill a lot of my interest in their stories. Until I hear other spoilers, I'm basically here for a shirtless OQ & Bratva. They seem to have forgotten about Dig & FS, or at least the FS & Dig that I liked. As for Olicity, I can only hope they pay attention to the fact that they are better together and drama free.

That's what I mean about being stagnant though. Coming back in 501 with 2.2-2.4/.8-.9, which isn't that spectacular but the common loyal audience instead of really shaking things up too much, showing that there is/was no buzz for people to tune in and just plain apathy, showing that the writers need to get back to plots/stories/characters that draw audiences in, other wise the overall average will continue to decline. If there was a tank, by the time that the writers could actually react to it, it could possibly be too late to do much to even properly fix it (or, in the case of how they wrote 414 and 415 from the reaction of 408, make it worse), whereas if it was a problem of apathy, it could just naturally push the writers to bring in the big fan draw-ins for more than just sweeps. 

[kismet]

The storylines and character arcs are basically set for s5a before the show ever premieres so the ratings are virtually useless as a means to change a good chunk of s5. Especially if the episodes are already filmed or prepped. They have course corrected in the past for the later parts of the season, the problem is the damage is already done. Or in some cases the writers have already become enamored with a storyline or character - even if it is not going over well with audiences & critics.

A sudden tank might be a good jolt to their system that something is off. Stagnant ratings will not be enough incentive to really ponder why people are upset with the show. It will just be that people forgot to tune in or don't know how to watch tv the right way. Or with the hubris of some of these writers, it will be an effort to convert the audience/critics to like the stories the writers wrote. 

[Chaser]

Echo confirmed on Twitter that he has been filming with EBR (it was a few days ago). It makes me wonder if they asked Echo to 'introduce' the newbies to be the fandom. I know not everything is PR but it's a thought.

On Facebook Live, SA mentioned talking to EBR on the phone about her walkout that day. Who knows if she filmed in the morning or not.

I want to believe DR and EBR are filming a lot together this week.

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, kismet said:

A sudden tank might be a good jolt to their system that something is off. Stagnant ratings will not be enough incentive to really ponder why people are upset with the show. It will just be that people forgot to tune in or don't know how to watch tv the right way. Or with the hubris of some of these writers, it will be an effort to convert the audience/critics to like the stories the writers wrote. 

It's just that from what I've seen, these people take the idea that apathy>hate. If audiences don't care, they have to give them reason to care. If the season starts off with a drop, I feel like the writers would desperately scramble to fix everything abruptly, making stories based on merely baiting people to come back immediately and short-term rather than actually trying to drive up more interest. If the desire to fix the story comes from a natural competitive desire to spur interest rather than a desperate need to fix ratings abruptly, I feel like it would be better for the season overall.

But, it might just be me being bias because I honestly never want to see a show I like tank just for personal reasons. I get where you're coming from, but I just don't think that negativity begets good ideas in writing.

[Guest]

Did I imagine it that Felicity is the one who brings Diggle back? Am I going crazy?

[kismet]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

It's just that from what I've seen, these people take the idea that apathy>hate. If audiences don't care, they have to give them reason to care. If the season starts off with a drop, I feel like the writers would desperately scramble to fix everything abruptly, making stories based on merely baiting people to come back immediately and short-term rather than actually trying to drive up more interest. If the desire to fix the story comes from a natural competitive desire to spur interest rather than a desperate need to fix ratings abruptly, I feel like it would be better for the season overall.

But, it might just be me being bias because I honestly never want to see a show I like tank just for personal reasons. I get where you're coming from, but I just don't think that negativity begets good ideas in writing.

For me I don't see it as negativity. I want the show that I like to do well. I want Arrow to live up to its potential. Not just check-in weekly and hope for the best. If the show they are putting on is subpar, then I don't feel the need to root for good or stable ratings. And that is not negativity. That is apathy.

But I also feel like so long as the ratings stay stable or stagnant, then there is no impetus for them to change anything. We will get whatever they feel is relevant and good storytelling. And for them that has been nowhere close to their potential. And for me that has produced a show I'm not keen to watch.

Apathy is worse than hate. I don't think wanting low ratings for a poorly written show about newbies is the equivalent of hate.

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Did I imagine it that Felicity is the one who brings Diggle back? Am I going crazy?

That was from a tweet at a Con. Nothing confirmed. 

[kismet]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Did I imagine it that Felicity is the one who brings Diggle back? Am I going crazy?

No that has been speculation from multiple posters here and on twitter. I don't think there has been anything confirmed.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

But I also feel like so long as the ratings stay stable or stagnant, then there is no impetus for them to change anything. We will get whatever they feel is relevant and good storytelling.

You're acting like anything they'd do to reverse a nosedive would actually be good. It seems like most of the good stuff they've done is stuff they've lucked into. They haven't tried and succeeded in quite a while. So, I don't think you'd be getting different or better storytelling either way. At some point, what they're capable of is what they're capable of. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

That was from a tweet at a Con. Nothing confirmed. 

Thanks. I've read so much that all info just sort of runs into one. 

That said, I hope Felicity plays a part in bringing him home. I want my goddamn DELICITY!

[kismet]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

You're acting like anything they'd do to reverse a nosedive would actually be good. It seems like most of the good stuff they've done is stuff they've lucked into. They haven't tried and succeeded in quite a while. So, I don't think you'd be getting different or better storytelling either way. At some point, what they're capable of is what they're capable of. 

I still have hope they are capable of more. And if they are not, then the nosedive ends in a bellyflop or worse and we call it a day. If they are not capable of more than it is what it is. Time will tell. I'm only going to root for Arrow to be better. And if that means a drop in ratings, I'm okay with that sacrifice if it gets them back on a good track. Everyone needs a warning sign from time to time.

[looptab]

I'm failing to see the logic in this reasoning. Anyway..

I wonder if that pic Echo posted means they are shooting scenes together, or the newbies are just there.

[apinknightmare]

I just think it's presumptive to assume they aren't trying to shake things up and keep it fresh. For all we know, this is what shaking things up looks like to them. If they rush storylines and have plot holes and gaps when they aren't frantic, I can't imagine they'd do much better when they are. I mean, hold out that hope if you want to, but no way would I ever root for a ratings drop just to put them in panic mode. 

2 minutes ago, looptab said:

I wonder if that pic Echo posted means they are shooting scenes together, or the newbies are just there.

Given that they're all wearing the same blue shirts that Echo felt the need to spoiler tag, I think they're probably filming together. 

[looptab]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Given that they're all wearing the same blue shirts that Echo felt the need to spoiler tag, I think they're probably filming together. 

Right, I forgot about the shirts, haha. Then I'm very curious about what could those three be doing together.

It's a strange feeling, not having the whole thing figured out, haha.

[dtissagirl]

I saw a pap/fan tweet last night saying the Arrow trucks and trailers were parked on a mall, outside a Sears, so maybe the newbies go undercover and it goes wrong? And then they have to go to the hospital in undercover t-shirts?

[Midnight Lullaby]

That would mean they assemble the team over the summer or how much ground do they cover in two episodes? I'm not even sure why I'm asking since I don't really care about the newbies, LOL