Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Juat saw a pic of Chad Coleman at the Arrow Production office. He looks like a total BAMF. I'm so excited to see what the show does with his character.  I want a cool, badass Michael Corleone type...please don't let me down show.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

It shouldn't be the newbies going undercover though. Ugh. Give me OTA shenanigans!

[dtissagirl]

I'm wondering if Oliver hasn't been vigilante-ing much during the hiatus because being Mayor is taking over all his time. So the newbies have been doing it. And now they're gonna change that offscreenville status quo.

 

[Sunshine]

7 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Did I imagine it that Felicity is the one who brings Diggle back? Am I going crazy?

There was a tweet from the last HVFF which stated this.  What most ignored or didn't notice was that there was a Felicity Funko in the bottom right corner as David was signing autographs in the background. The tweeter did the same with Willa but no one seemed to pick up on it. It was tagged Olicity Travels. I think that's where this rumor started.

[Sunshine]

12 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm wondering if Oliver hasn't been vigilante-ing much during the hiatus because being Mayor is taking over all his time. So the newbies have been doing it. And now they're gonna change that offscreenville status quo.

 

This is what I was thinking. I guess Curtis will be the connection. Or perhaps Thea. I am thinking SDCC sizzle reel is going to be Oliver & newbies .unless they include old footage of Diggle.  

[dtissagirl]

Without actually knowing much, I have two overall expectations for 501:

1. Since Berlanti gets story credit, I expect the episode to present the "legacy" theme in his usual symbolic/anvilistic way. All the little things we know about actually point to that -- the Buckles statue, the newbies seemingly having a team of their own, it all spells "legacy" to me.

2. Since BamBam is a mediocre director at best, I expect the emotional beats to be rushed through, no time to breathe at all, and the action scenes/pieces to be super stretched in screentime, because that's his schtick.

[Morrigan2575]

30 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

This is what I was thinking. I guess Curtis will be the connection. Or perhaps Thea. I am thinking SDCC sizzle reel is going to be Oliver & newbies .unless they include old footage of Diggle.  

Almost 2 full episodes in the can and you think a 2 minute sizzle reel is going to be nothing but Oliver and noobs from 502?  

Do people really believe this or is just the same old internet exaggerated reaction?  Because there's nothing in the first 3 sizzle reels that indicate that.  Yes, they highlight action but, they also highlight the characters, drama, storyline, even humor etc.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

So the paperweight could inspire the Scrappy Doo Team in Ep 2?

I know Baby Canary makes her first appearance in Ep 2 but what about Wild Dog?

WH really likes that jacket, she's been wearing it in 3 of the 4 BTS pics. 

If Paul is in the hospital, I would think Felicity would be there. 

I want to know what Felicity and Diggle have been up too. Please don't disappoint SDCC.

[tv echo]

There's still media speculation that Laurel will be resurrected (KC is back in Vancouver, was recently training at the same gym as SA, and dyed her hair blonde again this week) - example, this article was posted yesterday:
http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/88443/20160714/arrow-season-5-spoilers-katie-cassidy-arrives-vancouver-laurel-return-poll.htm

Edited July 15, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe someone should give them a picture of the Arrow Production Office that shows KCs pic is no long on the wall?

[apinknightmare]

And isn't SA's trainer Thomas her boyfriend?

[looptab]

Yes, he is.

I have to confess the hair discussion has been missed, though. :D

Edited July 15, 2016 by looptab

[kismet]

There will always be rumours that LL is going to be resurrected because the reality of the show is that it is possible in narrative to resurrect her. Death is not final or finite on Arrow. That being said, the reality of the situation is there is nothing that indicates that TPTB have any desire to bring her back in any capacity other than a CGI or real statue. That's all we're getting her legacy & a statue.

As for working out in the same gym, that's indicative of nothing. Her boyfriend was working in that gym last season. I'm guessing if they are still together and he is still employed, then her working out there is nothing special. Even if all of that is not true, it would make sense that she would return to the same gym to work-out. She was let go from the show, not banished from Vancouver. And she has stated she wants to stay there for a bit.

And as for her hair, the girl dyes it frequently. It's indicative of even less.

[Sunshine]

32 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Almost 2 full episodes in the can and you think a 2 minute sizzle reel is going to be nothing but Oliver and noobs from 502?  

Do people really believe this or is just the same old internet exaggerated reaction?  Because there's nothing in the first 3 sizzle reels that indicate that.  Yes, they highlight action but, they also highlight the characters, drama, storyline, even humor etc.  

Sorry.  Although they are filming 2 episodes at once I didn't assume that they would be almost finished. I did assume they would need time to edit and lay music or whatever. I certainly don't know the business like some posters and wasn't trying to exaggerate anything. 

[looptab]

Recruits, huh? Ha, they're really going to do a superhero bootcamp then? :) Now I'm imagining  the Uncle Sam's posters, just with Mayor Queen on it. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

44 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Almost 2 full episodes in the can and you think a 2 minute sizzle reel is going to be nothing but Oliver and noobs from 502?  

Do people really believe this or is just the same old internet exaggerated reaction?  Because there's nothing in the first 3 sizzle reels that indicate that.  Yes, they highlight action but, they also highlight the characters, drama, storyline, even humor etc.  

Because they never do anything stupid?

[Chaser]

I officially don't understand filming. I thought they were already filming some of episode 2.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I officially don't understand filming. I thought they were already filming some of episode 2.

They are. SA mentioned yesterday that he already filmed an ad-lib callback to the very first episode that - provided it makes the cut - will be in the 2nd ep, and they were still within the 1st ep's filming dates then.

Edited July 15, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

At least we will be through with Bam Bam directing in the first 2 episodes.

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

At least we will be through with Bam Bam directing in the first 2 episodes.

Couldn't he be back later in the season?

[Velocity23]

I think they said a director gets 2 episodes/season

[kismet]

I think the sizzle reel will be newbie and action heavy. I also expect a high dose of St. Laurel & what would Laurel do? I don't anticipate a lot of character development or story arc reveals because I don't think they have filmed that (or at least with people I consider characters on the show). Nor do I believe that character development is high on their priority list this season or at least in s5a. It's all going to be mask, plot, masks, plot, masks & plot.

I do expect some Arrow-like humor. And I do expect a reveal of the bad guy.

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

At least we will be through with Bam Bam directing in the first 2 episodes.

PLEASE LORDS OF KOBOL GRANT ME THIS BLESSING.

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I think they said a director gets 2 episodes/season

Please be right; please be right!

[Midnight Lullaby]

Bamford directing only the first two episodes seems too good to be true LOL

It's a pity by the way that they'll have to use his material for the trailer at SDCC..

Edited July 15, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[kismet]

Bamford is their runner-up director. I fully expect him to take over directing duties should any director fail to be able to perform their duties. I also expect that he may be the B-roll or secondary-rolls director. So he will be involved in a lot of episodes, whether we know about it or not.

I say learn to love Bam-Bam, he is going nowhere. Plus they LOVE him, so they will make a place for him.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure BamBam directed 2nd Unit for most S4 episodes. But it's an uncredited position, so it's hard to know for sure.

OTOH, Berlanti said he wants to have 50% of all of the directors to be not-male and/or not-white, so that limits the amount of white bros by default. And Bam's the whitest broest white bro who ever white broed.

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Bamford directing only the first two episodes seems too good to be true LOL

It's a pity by the way that they'll have to use his material for the trailer at SDCC..

They knew that would be all the footage they'd have for the sizzle reel when they chose him to direct those episodes. This is why I really don't understand the idea I've seen repeatedly that people who think they'll do something stupid are silly panicky children...they do stupid things ALL THE TIME. Expecting the worst of this show at this point is pretty much acknowledging the overwhelming reality of the show. They consistently make stupid story/casting choices, occasionally get very lucky, and once a season or so make a smart writing choice.

I think the sizzle reel will be, as kismet said, lots of punch-bam-kabow, heavy on the Oliver, light on the OTA, very light on the Olicity, heavy-ish on the newbies and St. Laurel. I think it'll still probably look cool, though. Bam's a sucky director, but quick cuts of action shots in a promo reel are pretty easy to make look cool.

[tv echo]

All the repeated references to S1 and the pilot by SA make me a little apprehensive. Oliver is supposed to evolve over five years, not regress back to his violent S1 self.  I really hope he is more of the balanced character that was previously hinted at by SA.

However, the "recruits" theme does give me hope that Oliver will be like the older mentor figure (like he was to Barry) and that he won't revert back to the S1 Oliver who was closed off and also slept with every woman on the show who wasn't related to him (or named Felicity).  

Edited July 15, 2016 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

I know they knew that. I think it's a pity from my POV but they obviously disagree because they love him. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't think it's stupid to be wary of what the sizzle reel will contain. But I've seen a lot of speculation about what it will/won't include solely based on BTS pics that have been posted, which I do think is a little silly. They've been filming for a week and a half, and we've only gotten a handful of pics, and very little info. 

[way2interested]

Concerning 502, I saw an idea that I kind of liked the sound of for the newbies. Oliver and Felicity have been holding down the fort all summer pre-501, and then 501 starts the legacy theme for all of the characters, pushing Oliver and Felicity to want to defend their new legacies (GA/Mayor/St. Laurel and Palmer Tech). Then, come end of 501/beginning of 502, they find out that some baddie is too big for them to handle without a team, leading them to reach out to Thea and Diggle, who both refuse to come back to the team. Backed into a corner, Oliver and Felicity try to get recruits to help them out instead (Oliver recruiting Baby Canary, Felicity recruiting Curtis), with a last minute recruitment of Wild Dog who one of them (maybe even Thea) abruptly meets within the beginning of the episode.

I'm not saying it's great, but idk I like that idea more than them simply enlarging the team because why not.

[wonderwall]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

All the repeated references to S1 and the pilot make me a little apprehensive. Oliver is supposed to evolve over five years, not regress back to his violent S1 self.  I really hope he is more of the balanced character that was hinted at by SA.

However, the "recruits" theme does give me hope that Oliver will be like the older mentor figure (like he was to Barry) and that he won't revert back to the S1 Oliver who was closed off and also slept with every woman on the show who wasn't related to him (or named Felicity).  

They're probably just minor callbacks, nothing more. For all we know they could've been done to show how far Oliver has come since the first season. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think it's stupid to be wary of what the sizzle reel will contain. But I've seen a lot of speculation about what it will/won't include solely based on BTS pics that have been posted, which I do think is a little silly. They've been filming for a week and a half, and we've only gotten a handful of pics, and very little info. 

That's because we have, say, ten pieces of information, and nine of them show light Olicity and/or light OTA. Drawing the conclusion from that information that the early part of the season will be light on OTA/Olicity is not irrational. At most it's premature.

[Morrigan2575]

53 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Sorry.  Although they are filming 2 episodes at once I didn't assume that they would be almost finished. I did assume they would need time to edit and lay music or whatever. I certainly don't know the business like some posters and wasn't trying to exaggerate anything. 

I wasn't trying to say that, Sorry if it came across that way. I just meant fandom/internet tends to exaggerate everything on an emotional level, there's no middle ground.  It's always extreme ends of the spectrum everything is love/hate, best/worst, etc.  

If it's something emotional like that i just try to ignore because it's just the way fandom is.  However, if it's a matter of people just not understanding what a sizzle reel is or having not seen previous sizzle reels and thinking it's all action all the time then i'd provide info and links. 

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

If it's something emotional like that i just try to ignore because it's just the way fandom is.  However, if it's a matter of people just not understanding what a sizzle reel is or having not seen previous sizzle reels and thinking it's all action all the time then i'd provide info and links. 

It doesn't have to be all action all the time to focus on the newbies/Oliver/St. Laurel. The newbies will presumably also have some kind of character development and relationships, both among each other and with veteran characters. I think everyone also expects some humor, etc. The concern I've seen is more that it is likely to be light on Felicity and Diggle, and so far that seems like a perfectly rational concern to me. It may happen, it may not, but the surety that of course it won't, bc these EPs wouldn't do something so stupid, seems to require forgetting a lot of past stupid decisions these EPs or the network have made.

Also, for me personally, it's not only or even mostly about the BTS pics. Those are small pieces of information, but they are small pieces of information that are consistent with the larger pieces of information we've gotten from the actors, etc., especially SA.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

All the repeated references to S1 and the pilot by SA make me a little apprehensive. Oliver is supposed to evolve over five years, not regress back to his violent S1 self.  I really hope he is more of the balanced character that was previously hinted at by SA.

However, the "recruits" theme does give me hope that Oliver will be like the older mentor figure (like he was to Barry) and that he won't revert back to the S1 Oliver who was closed off and also slept with every woman on the show who wasn't related to him (or named Felicity).  

For me, that means that perhaps they will spend more time in the flashbacks. Yay for me, since I want that more than newbies. I also enjoyed the darkness of s1, so I wouldn't mind a return to that.

And I also think that the Big Bad this year is going to be all of the s1 VOTWs rolled into one. He is going to be a pretty bad-ass thug, running a tight ship of crime. So I think the violence is going to be more street and more brutal. Plus I think he going to care about turf & profits and that is always more violent onscreen than DD's philosophical rationale.

I don't think we are going to see a regressed OQ. Mentor OQ is likely, however, not looking fwd to it. I think without Dig around, OQ is going to clam up emotionally. FS was able to get OQ to open up emotionally, but that was before they broke up. I don't think he is going to be as emotionally open with her because they are still in post-lovers/current work partners mode. They will be all about the mission and there is not as much room for emotions in the mission. Let's face it they both shut down their emotions hard when they want to achieve the mission over anything else.

[Chaser]

I'm thinking about what all we have BTS.

We know that Echo and the Noobs were filming at least two days together, one day included WH. We know that Echo was filming with EBR and WH for at least one day. We know that Echo was filming with SA for at least one day. We know that SA and WH filmed together at least one day.

All I got is Echo has been busy. We have no idea what else they filmed on those days though. EBR could be doing a lot of studio work.

We have nothing on DR.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

It doesn't have to be all action all the time to focus on the newbies/Oliver/St. Laurel. The newbies will presumably also have some kind of character development and relationships, both among each other and with veteran characters. I think everyone also expects some humor, etc. The concern I've seen is more that it is likely to be light on Felicity and Diggle, and so far that seems like a perfectly rational concern to me. It may happen, it may not, but the surety that of course it won't, bc these EPs wouldn't do something so stupid, seems to require forgetting a lot of past stupid decisions these EPs or the network have made. 

Except of course, the original post I responded to only mentioned Oliver and the noobs. Which is what I was commenting on. The idea that a 2 minute sizzle reel will be comprised only of Oliver, Wild Dog and Artemis doing punchy things.

That's why i pointed out that a sizzle reel is designed much like a trailer to hint/tease/encapsulate the theme/feel of the entire season. So yes, it will highlight action but also characters (old and new), flashbacks, humor, and yes romance too.

As for what i think is in the sizzle reel?

Arrow in action, highlight new suit (if it's a visable change), Oliver in flashbacks,  especially the fight club scene and Anatoly if he's in 501 or 502.

We'll get looks at Wild Dog and Artemis in costume 

We'll get Olicity scenes (and yes there will be scenes even if they're non-romantic)

We'll get Felicity/Curtis scenes, being funny and probably some action too (and yes, Felicity has had actions scenes in previous sizzle reels)

We'll get Mayor Oliver scenes (most likely inter cut with GA scenes)

You will most definitely get scenes of Chad Coleman being a BAMF/Villain

You will get scenes of Thea and Speedy and probably Army Diggle.  

There will also be scenes from S4 at the start to remind people of last season.  This will include Laurel's death (probably intercut with scenes of the stupid statue) and stuff related to Diggle/Andy, and Felicity/Nuke.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

26 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

That's because we have, say, ten pieces of information, and nine of them show light Olicity and/or light OTA. Drawing the conclusion from that information that the early part of the season will be light on OTA/Olicity is not irrational. At most it's premature.

I never said it was irrational. I was speaking specifically to what I've seen, which is a lot of worry that Felicity isn't around, that Oliver and Felicity don't interact at all, which could be true but we haven't been given any reason to believe that. I do think it's reasonable to think there won't be any Olicity, since they're broken up, or any OTA because DR hasn't been around. 

[kismet]

I still consider Curtis a Newbie. As far as I'm concerned his one of the bunch of Newbies. He's untrained and new to the mask. Just because I know what he looks like or a little of his personality from s4 doesn't count for anything in my book. He was red-shirted in s4. I don't consider his experience in s4 to be anything more than perhaps he is qualified to be Capt of the Newbies. I'll give him that. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

I still consider Curtis a Newbie. As far as I'm concerned his one of the bunch of Newbies. He's untrained and new to the mask. Just because I know what he looks like or a little of his personality from s4 doesn't count for anything in my book. He was red-shirted in s4. I don't consider his experience in s4 to be anything more than perhaps he is qualified to be Capt of the Newbies. I'll give him that. 

What info do we have that suggests Curtis has a mask as of 501/502?  It's been confirmed that he'll become Mr. Fantastic in S5 but that seems to be his season long journey...not coming back from Summer break in mask

[apinknightmare]

Someone has to die first!

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Someone has to die first!

Yes and we all know who. My guess is Curtis gets a mask after MSF.

[bijoux]

As for the pilot callbacks, the only one that I remember specifically being mentioned was about something the doctor told Moira. Off the top of my head I can remember something along the lines of, The son you lost might not be the one you get back. 20% of his body is covered in scar tissue. I imagine either of those being mentioned in the flashbacks.

[foreverevolving]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

As for the pilot callbacks, the only one that I remember specifically being mentioned was about something the doctor told Moira. Off the top of my head I can remember something along the lines of, The son you lost might not be the one you get back. 20% of his body is covered in scar tissue. I imagine either of those being mentioned in the flashbacks.

There was also something about multiple fracture that were not healed properly.. or something like that.

[Morrigan2575]

Brought over from social media thread.

25 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

That's still something to talk about. To speculate about. With the way the finale left things what can we talk about? We know Dig will be back in SC sooner or later but other than that what can we talk about? It's pointless to even speculate because it could go in so many different directions and we have no indication of anything.

Again not really, between May-Pre SDCC 2015 all we had for Diggle was New Mask and dealing with Oliver/Diggle issues. That's the only spoilers we really got from Upfronts and some Cons.

From May-Pre SDCC 2016 what we got spoilers wise is Diggle is getting an updated Helmet and Diggle will have to deal with  his Andy/Laurel guilt issues. 

It's the EXACT same content, type and amount of spoilers.  In fact if you go back and read DR's interviews from Upfronts and Cons he talks the same stuff last year as this year. 

Mask/Mask

Emotional fallout from Brotherly betrayal  (Oliver vs Andy)

Diggle was supposed to be John Stewart, power ring, etc.

I don't know if people are just getting bogged down in SDCC/Post SDCC information and, saying we had so much more to go on last year but, it's not really accurate.  Hell, last year the Spoiler and Speculation threads were closed from post Upfronts to to mid/late June.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

16 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Brought over from social media thread.

Again not really, between May-Pre SDCC 2015 all we had for Diggle was New Mask and dealing with Oliver/Diggle issues. That's the only spoilers we really got from Upfronts and some Cons.

From May-Pre SDCC 2016 what we got spoilers wise is Diggle is getting an updated Helmet and Diggle will have to deal with  his Andy/Laurel guilt issues. 

It's the EXACT same content, type and amount of spoilers.  In fact if you go back and read DR's interviews from Upfronts and Cons he talks the same stuff last year as this year. 

Mask/Mask

Emotional fallout from Brotherly betrayal  (Oliver vs Andy)

Diggle was supposed to be John Stewart, power ring, etc.

I don't know people are just getring bogged down in SDCC/Post SDCC information and saying we had so much more to go on last year but it's not really accurate.  Hell last year the Spoiler and Speculation threads were closed from post Upfronts to to mid/late June.

It is different because of the way things were left last season. After season 3 I remember talking about Diggle taking the role of the leader of the team in Oliver's absence and about the direction Oliver and Felicity's relationship was going to take. The characters were in such a place that even with little informations there was stuff to speculate about.

This year as I said already regarding Diggle and Felicity what can I talk and speculate about? We can say Diggle will be back in SC because we know he is a regular on the show but with the way he left at the end of the season there's no point in discussing how or when because we have no hints. Same with Felicity. They left with no hints of what she might have in mind for her future so what can I speculate about? Sure I can make up scenarios but I don't see the point without having anything to base an idea on.

What I'd like is one little detail about one of them so I can stop being so incredibly bored when I think about the show and have something to talk about.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Morrigan2575]

There's plenty to speculate on in regards to Diggle this season and with the same amount of Spoilers that we had last season. Why will Diggle return? When will he come back? How does he comes back? Who brings him back (we actually have a spoiler or potential spoiler for that one!) - we spents pages speculating on Olicity's return last season...pretty sure we ALL knew they were coming back since they're series regulars.

As far as after he gets back, what's he going to be like? Still angry/guilty diggle like 419-423? Calmer more adjusted Diggle after his time away? What's his relationship with Lyla going to be like now? Strained? Still on good terms? What's his relationship going to be like with the team? Is he going to hold back because of Andy/Laurel. 

Felicity spoilers, we know she's still got PT to some extent (actual spoiler) is she going for CEO again? Will she open a new company  (doubtful but, totally worth speculating on), how is she dealing with the events of Monument Point?!  Of all the possible things that S4 finale set up for Felicity are we really saying that her emotional, mental reaction to the nuke isn't worth speculating over? EBR talked about this at cons, so sort of a spoiler?  What about Cooper's death? Will that have any impact on Felicity? 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

They are not going to show any of that having any meaningful impact on Felicity, and they definitely didn't set it up to show it having any meaningful impact on her. Everybody was joking around the very next episode, and EBR herself said something like that's the show. 

Btw, re an earlier post, O/F being in the same room together, or being on comms speaking to each other, is not an Olicity scene.

It feels like people are being told not to be down about the show, but people are allowed to be down if they want to. There's been a small amount of info, and what there has been has, for some, been negative info. So, some people are expressing negative feelings. That is just as okay as expressing positive/optimistic feelings. It could all turn around after the sizzle/SDCC, or it could not. Either thing is okay.

Edited July 15, 2016 by AyChihuahua