Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

I'm apparently missing a shit load of information overnight.

 

1 - When did we find out that Thea/Samantha are in scenes together

2 - When did we find out that Oliver takes Felicity to tell her about William?

3 - Are there spoilers posted in other thread besides Spoilers Only?

1 - that pic KC took that showed Anna Hopkins on set also showed Thea's head in the foreground

2 - in next week's trailer, Felicity is in the meeting with DD. People have been speculating the dialogue in the trailer was cut out of order, which would mean Oliver tells Felicity about the kid before DD announces he kidnapped him. I'm not sure I agree with that spec, because the dialog is really reactive. "I've kidnapped William" "Who's William?" "He's my son." That feels in proper order to me.

[nksarmi]

Yea I don't think Felicity finds out until Darhk literally forces Oliver's hand in the whole matter.  I know Laurel isn't popular and all, but dear lord, I hope she supports Felicity in all of this. I also hope that they go ahead and let her be angry at Oliver a little.  I mean, sure Laurel should be over Oliver and all of his crap.  But finding out he knocked a girl up while he was with her should sting a little.  She could have convinced herself over the years that the Sara thing was the only time he cheated and he just did that because she was pushing too hard for them to get serious (ie move in together - I'm sure she always thought they were exclusive). Finding out this should tell her loud and clear that he never loved her, never respected her, and they were never even really friends.  There is no way Laurel should be on his side here.  I don't mind if she eventually encourages Felicity to forgive him, but she should be angry or at least disappointed - certainly NOT understanding.  And since Donna and Quentin a full-time thing, Laurel should be there for Felicity in a "my dad loves your mom" kind of way as well.  By the way, I don't like the use of the "L" word between Donna and Quentin because I don't think they've been together long enough - but the show was using it so I think that's all the more reason Laurel should be on Felicity's side. 

 

I want Diggle on her side too, but he's such a damn coin toss because he will support Oliver even when he thinks he's wrong.

Edited February 19, 2016 by nksarmi

[Morrigan2575]

1 - that pic KC took that showed Anna Hopkins on set also showed Thea's head in the foreground

2 - in next week's trailer, Felicity is in the meeting with DD. People have been speculating the dialogue in the trailer was cut out of order, which would mean Oliver tells Felicity about the kid before DD announces he kidnapped him. I'm not sure I agree with that spec, because the dialog is really reactive. "I've kidnapped William" "Who's William?" "He's my son." That feels in proper order to me.

Thank you for the explanation.

[looptab]

I  thought that it was a parking lot, not an abandoned warehouse? I could  rewatch the trailer - but I don't want to, so I'm trusting you guys.

[apinknightmare]

I  thought that it was a parking lot, not an abandoned warehouse? I could  rewatch the trailer - but I don't want to, so I'm trusting you guys.

 

It's a structure of some sort - there are support beams around them.

[dtissagirl]

I want Laurel to have a reaction too, but I *really* do not want it to be a rumination on her feelings for Oliver FROM YEARS AGO, because her former feelings for Oliver are completely irrelevant to the storyline.

[nksarmi]

I want Laurel to have a reaction too, but I *really* do not want it to be a rumination on her feelings for Oliver FROM YEARS AGO, because her former feelings for Oliver are completely irrelevant to the storyline.

 

Right - I'd just like it to be something along the lines of huh, I guess it wasn't ALL Sara's fault (because you just know that Laurel blamed her sister more than Ollie back in the day) and wow, that relationship was so NOT what I thought it was. 

 

I mean this latter reaction is important because at some point, Laurel is actually the perfect person to point out to Felicity that while Oliver is kind of like a broken toy, that he loves her (Felicity) in a way that he's never loved anyone - and who else would know that better than Laurel?  I would be so impressed if this show let Laurel and Felicity have heart to heart talks about love and trust and loyalty and can Felicity let herself be with Oliver even knowing that he will probably always be broken on some level and that his brain doesn't work like other people's.

[apinknightmare]

I really want to know what Oliver & Samantha's relationship was. I always assumed she was someone he fucked around with a few times, but the language the writers used in the last ep kind of made it seem like he was dating the two concurrently? I mean, when he was talking to Moira about her, he seemed to know her beyond being a general fuck buddy, but they could've been friends, I guess. When he was talking to Thea, he gave the vague "I was with Samantha Clayton while I was dating Laurel." Probably a nice way of saying "having no-strings-attached sex with" to his sister, but then Thea mentioned them breaking up, which indicates a relationship. Not that she'd know the extent of whatever they were, but it was written that way. Then again, maybe the writers weren't being careful with their words there, which wouldn't be a shock.

 

Basically I thought Oliver and Laurel were a pretty well-known couple, so I'm looking for more reasons to think Samantha is a terrible person for getting angry at Oliver when it seems like she was engaging in a sexual (and possibly romantic) relationship with someone she had to know was dating another woman. I thought maybe Oliver & Laurel were on a break when Oliver & Samantha were together, but Oliver confirmed that wasn't the case. I mean, old Oliver was for sure absolute scum, but holding that over his head when she was scummy too is hilarious to me. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

Oh yea when you get knocked up with someone's kid when you know he was cheating on them to be with you - then holding that against him seems kind of hypocritical.  The odd thing about Oliver and Laurel is that the show seemed to say that they were a well known couple and he was a playboy as well.  Now they could have just been saying that he liked to party and piss off the cops, but it always felt a little like Ollie liked to play around but he would always go back and beg Laurel to take him back or beg her to forgive him.  This time though, in the flashback and here, they made it very clear that he was cheating on Laurel.  So there is no way BM wasn't just as guilty as he was in that foolishness.  Plus if she was really keeping tabs on him, she would have known that outside of a couple of instances in season one, he was pretty quiet since he came back from the island. 

[dtissagirl]

Laurel is actually the perfect person to point out to Felicity that while Oliver is kind of like a broken toy, that he loves her (Felicity) in a way that he's never loved anyone - and who else would know that better than Laurel? 

That scene would only work for me if KC could keep her Involuntary NOTP Face in check. Which I doubt she can.

[apinknightmare]

So, any thoughts on what Laurel is going to prosecute Darhk for? I'm guessing it's the kidnapping, since it can be directly tied to him as a person, and not some order from the leader of HIVE and carried out by its agents. Do we have any info on the kid/mom being around in 16? Seems like they'd have to be there for something like that, although I guess the Star(ling) City justice system might not require it for...reasons. Or, dare I hope that they aren't around because they've been whisked away into ARGUS protective custody? 

 

let a girl dream

Edited February 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

It's a structure of some sort - there are support beams around them.

Sorry, I meant a parking garage :) Just to say why it didn't seem weird to me that they are there. :)

 

 

 I would be so impressed if this show let Laurel and Felicity have heart to heart talks about love and trust and loyalty and can Felicity let herself be with Oliver even knowing that he will probably always be broken on some level and that his brain doesn't work like other people's.

It would be nice - in an outside of time and space context. Because I don't want to watch a scene like that, like, ever. Sorry!

Edited February 19, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

Sorry, I meant a parking garage :) Just to say why it didn't seem weird to me that they are there. :)

 

There don't seem to be any cars there, though - it looks like it's empty. And O/F seem to be having some kind of a convo right in the middle of it, which is a little weird, haha. 

[bijoux]

Is anyone else wondering why Oliver took Felicity to what appears to be an abandoned warehouse to tell her about his kid? Maybe she insisted to go with him but I also don't see Oliver taking her to a meeting with DD, who almost killed her, or whoever he was supposed to meet in that sketchy place since she can't even run away.

 

From the body language before Darhk appears I gathered they were wherever unrelated to him. They were relaxed, smiling and cute. I don't think they would be that way if they were waiting for him. Maybe it's the PT underground garage and Felicity was leaving work. 

 

As for Oliver's "relationship" with Samantha I took "being together" as a euphemism for "hooking up with". That's all.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Are we sure LL is going to prosecute Darhk? I was thinking maybe someone who is instrumental for his plans because that guy can kill people through a video conference so just the idea of them thinking about putting him in a regular prison makes me lol.

[bijoux]

So, any thoughts on what Laurel is going to prosecute Darhk for? I'm guessing it's the kidnapping, since it can be directly tied to him as a person, and not some order from the leader of HIVE and carried out by its agents. Do we have any info on the kid/mom being around in 16? Seems like they'd have to be there for something like that, although I guess the Star(ling) City justice system might not require it for...reasons. Or, dare I hope that they aren't around because they've been whisked away into ARGUS protective custody? 

 

let a girl dream

 

I don't know of anything indicating that they are in any episodes after next week's. There's alway the holiday kidnapping at the campaign office. Plus a few dropped bodyguards.

[apinknightmare]

I don't know of anything indicating that they are in any episodes after next week's. There's alway the holiday kidnapping at the campaign office. Plus a few dropped bodyguards.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Could be! 

 

Are we sure LL is going to prosecute Darhk? I was thinking maybe someone who is instrumental for his plans because that guy can kill people through a video conference so just the idea of them thinking about putting him in a regular prison makes me lol.

 

They mentioned doing something different with a villain, and we know Laurel is prosecuting someone because there are courtroom pics. So it seems like it's probably Darhk.

Edited February 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Maybe DD's team will call MM as a character witness.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe DD's team will call MM as a character witness.

 

Fingers crossed it's full of hand puns!

[nksarmi]

That scene would only work for me if KC could keep her Involuntary NOTP Face in check. Which I doubt she can.

 

LOL I guess I was hoping their real life friendship (which seems to be a thing) could come out a little.  Because even I noticed that Laurel sounded a little bitchy after Felicity's "awe, the first time we met, you were asking me to pull data off a damaged lap top" and that, huh, that's weird.  And I don't usually notice when KC seems to seep into Laurel.

[Chaser]

DD knows Oliver is GA. He probably knows everyone's identity. Is it a good idea to publicly prosecute someone with that knowledge?

"Mr. DD you have broken the law."

"Says the woman with the bondage suit. I could bring up lots of interesting tidbits but let's start with this. Have you or have not been working recently with the mass murder MM? If you don't remember, he is willing to testify."

[bijoux]

Why are you convinced he knows? I mean, it would make sensee, sure, but that's not how it always works in SC. I don't remember anything on the show explicity or implicitly saying that DD knows.

[nksarmi]

Shouldn't they find a way to rob Darhk of his magic?  Oh wait.  That's what the special rock that Oliver got from hallucination Shado in the flashbacks is going to be for, right?  I don't usually pay attention, but they caught  me off guard with Shado and got me to pay attention for a few seconds.  I wonder how many episodes we have to go before Oliver remembers he as that stashed somewhere?

[Guest]

I remember KC posted a picture of Oliver, Thea, Samantha and herself, obviously, all in the Police station. So I think it's safe to say they all share scenes with Samantha, even if they're just there. And KC did say she embraces someone and I could totally see this show have Laurel be the supportive one to contrast evil! Felicity for not accepting the lie. I mean, if ever there's a time for Laurel to be rightly mad, it's now but whatever. Watch them do this. Watch them.

 

As for who LL is prosecuting, I definitely think it's Damien because WM said she was going to help bring down DD but not as BC, as a Lawyer. They also have Vixen coming on in the previous episode and she'll probably help de-power DD so they can arrest him.

 

It's all anti-climatic if you ask me.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

Shouldn't they find a way to rob Darhk of his magic?  Oh wait.  That's what the special rock that Oliver got from hallucination Shado in the flashbacks is going to be for, right?  I don't usually pay attention, but they caught  me off guard with Shado and got me to pay attention for a few seconds.  I wonder how many episodes we have to go before Oliver remembers he as that stashed somewhere?

 

I think it's the tattoo that is supposed to help. We'll find out once Oliver fights him topless, I guess. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Sorry, I meant a parking garage :) Just to say why it didn't seem weird to me that they are there. :)

 

 

It would be nice - in an outside of time and space context. Because I don't want to watch a scene like that, like, ever. Sorry!

You are right, I watched it again and it is an underground garage. I had to stop the video because with all that darkness I really couldn't see, lol.

[Chaser]

Why are you convinced he knows? I mean, it would make sensee, sure, but that's not how it always works in SC. I don't remember anything on the show explicity or implicitly saying that DD knows.

I know we don't have confirmation but after the stunt Oliver pulled I call BS if DD doesn't know.

Kidnapping Kid is way to much trouble to go thru for a guy he could just snap like a twig.

Plus, if he still doesn't know it has to mean MM and Oliver are just conning DD. I hate that thought.

[looptab]

 And O/F seem to be having some kind of a convo right in the middle of it, which is a little weird, haha. 

Well, less weird than them being in the middle of a warehouse, haha. 

[bijoux]

DD comes across as having a much bigger hard on for Oliver than for GA to me. So I'm not that surprised that he would kidnap his child. And how much trouble is it, really? He probably just told William to follow him. Done.

[apinknightmare]

DD knows Oliver is GA. He probably knows everyone's identity. Is it a good idea to publicly prosecute someone with that knowledge?

 

Someone asked MG on Tumblr or Twitter whether DD knew that Oliver was GA, and he wrote no. It was last week-ish? Although how he couldn't at this point, I have no idea. His wife seems to know, and if she didn't, Oliver did his damnedest to make sure she could figure it out this week. So...who knows at this point.

[looptab]

You are right, I watched it again and it is an underground garage. I had to stop the video because with all that darkness I really couldn't see, lol.

DD is just going to pop out from behind a car much like Malcolm jumed out from behind the trash cans last year. They like their entrances!

[nksarmi]

I remember KC posted a picture of Oliver, Thea, Samantha and herself, obviously, all in the Police station. So I think it's safe to say they all share scenes with Samantha, even if they're just there. And KC did say she embraces someone and I could totally see this show have Laurel be the supportive one to contrast evil! Felicity for not accepting the lie. I mean, if ever there's a time for Laurel to be rightly mad, it's now but whatever. Watch them do this. Watch them.

 

As for who LL is prosecuting, I definitely think it's Damien because WM said she was going to help bring down DD but not as BC, as a Lawyer. They also have Vixen coming on in the previous episode and she'll probably help de-power DD so they can arrest him.

 

It's all anti-climatic if you ask me.

 

I think you are right - I really do.  Because these people would think that would make Laurel look good instead of idiotic.  But I remain a little hopeful that the someone Laurel embraces is Donna and just goes full-bore "I can't wait for you to be my new step-mom because you make my dad SO happy!"  Because I gota say - as weird as that would be - it would be so much better for me (as someone who really wants to like Laurel) than them whacking Laurel upside the head with a stupid stick and having her be all "let me embrace the woman that my ex got knocked up while he was dating me."

[Belinea]

I remember KC posted a picture of Oliver, Thea, Samantha and herself, obviously, all in the Police station. So I think it's safe to say they all share scenes with Samantha, even if they're just there. And KC did say she embraces someone and I could totally see this show have Laurel be the supportive one to contrast evil! Felicity for not accepting the lie. I mean, if ever there's a time for Laurel to be rightly mad, it's now but whatever. Watch them do this. Watch them.

 

I don't understand what kind of picture they have of a capable woman. If there was ever a time for Laurel to be upset it would be over this but maybe she is just a good person that she understand why Oliver cheated a 1000 times and got a girl pregnant while with her. 

[looptab]

Well, they could be thinking "It's been 10 years, Laurel takes the higher ground" or whatever. But, are we sure KC didn't simply mean Donna, when she made that comment? 

[apinknightmare]

Well, they could be thinking "It's been 10 years, Laurel takes the higher ground" or whatever. But, are we sure KC didn't simply mean Donna, when she made that comment? 

 

Could've totally been her, especially after last ep when she mentioned wanting to get to know the woman who stole Quentin's heart or whatever.

[Chaser]

I wouldn't be surprised if KC was talking about BM, but 'embrace' could be stretching it. It could be a couple lines of dialogue. "I'm so sorry about your son. We will get him back."

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well, they could be thinking "It's been 10 years, Laurel takes the higher ground" or whatever. But, are we sure KC didn't simply mean Donna, when she made that comment?

I really hope she meant Donna because one thing is to help saving the child, another is pretend BM wasn't a shitty human being towards LL. And did nothing to change that. Any bonding scene between them would be embarrassing to watch.

[Guest]

It totally could be Donna who Laurel embraces. I'm just presenting worse-case scenario. Because I do that. Haha.

 

If anything Samantha should take one look at Laurel and be embarrassed. I know a long time has passed but she obviously knew Oliver was with Laurel and still slept with him anyway. Ugh, I hate her. She's gross. Yes, Oliver was gross too because he was the one in an actual relationship but you don't go around sleeping with other women's boyfriends.

 

Then again, this is the garbage human who is forcing Oliver to lie to everyone about having a child for the most ridiculous reason so she probably won't be embarrassed at all.

[tv echo]

I still haven't decided if I'm going to watch 415 live (or at all).

 

CR's tweet timing does not rule out Donna for the grave.  The shoot dates for 418 are Feb. 12 - 23, 2016.  If CR is returning to filming next week (Monday is Feb. 22), she still has time to shoot one scene.  So it's unclear whether Donna is returning for 418 or 419.

 

I really don't think Laurel is the one in the grave because if that were the case, I think MG would not have responded to that fan tumblr rumor and denied that KC had decided to leave the show.  He seems genuinely fond of her, so I don't think he would humiliate her that way if he was killing her character off by essentially saying that she had been fired.  If Laurel was the one in the grave, MG would've just ignored that fan question and there'd just be the same speculation as before.  Then they could later say it was a mutual decision or she wanted to pursue other projects or whatever.

Edited February 19, 2016 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

Sorry, but if there's one thing I'm 100% sure of, it's that Donna is not in the grave and the reason why I'm so sure is that the only people her death are Felicity, Oliver, and Quentin. No one else would really care. The others would feel bad but would move on after a week or so. And Oliver would definitely feel guilty if the death was Donna's because she was never a part of, nor did she choose to be a part of his mission. 

 

That being said, there's only so much the writers are willing to make Felicity go through in half a season. So far she's had to deal with her father coming back, her paralysis, and nwo the implosion of her relationship with Oliver...

 

And tbh this isn't wishful thinking, it's more certainty than anything else. 

[looptab]

It totally could be Donna who Laurel embraces. I'm just presenting worse-case scenario. Because I do that. Haha.

Oh, I wasn't referring to you specifically.:) We have all, myself included, been focused on this person being either Vixen or Samantha, (maybe because it got out while they where shooting 415? I don't remember) but it really could be the simplest answer. :) Edited February 19, 2016 by looptab

[wonderwall]

Actually... Do you think that the show is increasing Donna's role because the show plans to bring her back more often next season? They want to make her more of a fully fledged character with complicated relationships/multiple layers so she'd seamlessly fit in next season. Why? Maybe it's because she'll be there for Quentin if Laurel dies, or she'll be there for Felicity after whoever dies... IDK

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't think it's Donna in the grave because I doubt Felicity would ask Oliver if he is all right if it was her mom who died.

[tv echo]

Then I think the choices are quickly narrowing down to Quentin.

[Password]

I don't look forward to looking dearest baby mama in the face.

Seriously why couldn't she Skype in? Why do I need to see her?

[wonderwall]

Then I think the choices are quickly narrowing down to Quentin.

Yep he's still my first choice followed closely by LL. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I don't think its Donna because assuming Curtis's chip helps Felicity walk in the next episode or two, she would be the last person left mourning at the grave, not Oliver.

 

I can't figure out if I really think its Quentin in the grave or if I'm just not letting myself get my hopes up around Laurel.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Lance has been the most likely candidate from the beginning and he is the one I would bet on if I had to. I don't believe for a second they are suicidal enough to kill Diggle, so the only viable options for me are Lance or Laurel, because many dialogues she had hinted heavily at her too. They talked about what her dad would do if something were to happened to her and about how it wouldn't be Oliver's fault because she chose to be the BC and that can't not remind me of the words Oliver used at the grave.

That is if they have the guts to kill a real prominent character like they said they were going to do obviously.

[Chaser]

Donnas increased role could be for a number of reasons. She made a good impression in S3. Personal connection for Felicity. An additional layer for Quentin, esp if he is in the grave. A red herring for the grave, whether for Donna or Quentin.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a regular in S5. If Qunentin dies, they could bring her in as a parental figure. Maybe they are super attached to the idea of Quentin as Olivers Father in Law so Quentin lives and they get a double wedding.

Last one of a joke.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think it's Donna in the grave because I doubt Felicity would ask Oliver if he is all right if it was her mom who died.

I totally don't think it's Donna, but I saw that scene in gifs, and Felicity's "Are you?" came off way more as deflection of his question than a real question.