All Episodes Talk: Season 6

[Joe Hellandback]

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

No, what Brother Idiot Jeb actually said (in No Place Like Home) was:

So Dawn was created apart from Buffy, and only sent to her later.  It seems very unlikely that the Monks, over in the Czech Republic, had a hold of some of Buffy's blood or anything like that.  (Although Buffy does have her passport [per Who Are You], as opposed to poor country mouse Willow, who's never even been to New York [per Inca Mummy Girl].  Maybe Buffy spent the summer between S4 and S5 in Prague, checking on Spike and Drusilla's history there?  Ah, you see, we only have Dawn because Spuffy is Twu Wuv! [/evil laugh])

But even if the Monks did, through some unbelievable plot wank, have some of Buffy's DNA and threw it into the mix with the Key to create "Dawn", so what? It's the Key that opens the dimensions, not the "Summers blood".  Buffy is the useless part of Dawn in this example.  

Remember, Brother Idiot Jeb tells Buffy that "for centuries [the Key] had no form at all".  So how can its function be performed by Buffy, who only showed up on this planet in 1981?  Joss's logic does not resemble our Earth-logic, here.

My personal theory was that Buffy had a blood test when she joined the Initiative and that's what was used (got the idea from a rather clever fanfic where Buffy has died but her Initiative created clone turns up in Sunnydale to the surprise and joy of Joyce and her adopted daughters Faith and her sister Dawn). Another theory is that the Council took her blood when Giles was drugging her for the Cruciantenam or when she was sick in hospital a couple of times.  

 As for the whole closing the portal idea, well, if we can accept that Buffy can't read Angel's thoughts because he doesn't reflect in the mirror (yet appears on video?). Leave the flobotinum alone.  

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Yes. Buffy's explanation in The Sacrifice is, by far, the clearest, the simplest, and the most evocative: "She's more than (my sister). She's me. The monks made her out of me." From there, all else could be said to follow well enough... 

The problem, of course, is that nothing had ever suggested this before. What we'd been told is that the monks made the Key into a human, and that human into Buffy's sister, so that Buffy would be uniquely motivated to protect her, beyond all others. (As a minion might put it.) I have a hard time seeing "The monks made her out of me" as anything but the hanging chad on a lost scene, or a mulligan performed on a McGuffin.

The whole thing was supposed to be a surprise and worked quite well, everyone was genuinely baffled as to who or what Dawnie was. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

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No, what Brother Idiot Jeb actually said (in No Place Like Home) was:

Yes, the dumb monk who, IIRC, led Glory to Sunnydale in the first place, said nothing about any blood connection. Probably because Joss hadn't pulled that twist out of his posterior at the time. He isn't exactly a fan of long-term planning in his plotting. Buffy jumped to her death based on a hunch. A hunch which supplied her with the premise of her conclusion. Premise - "Dawn is made of me". Conclusion - "I am therefore a spare Key". Not only was the premise a shot in the dark but the conclusion was a painfully obvious fallacy. Giving up your life and risking the destruction of the entire world based on a hunch and a fallacy isn't heroic, it's stupid, IMO. What's worse is that it worked and showed to me that the writer was being stupid, not the character.

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But even if the Monks did, through some unbelievable plot wank, have some of Buffy's DNA and threw it into the mix with the Key to create "Dawn", so what? It's the Key that opens the dimensions, not the "Summers blood".  Buffy is the useless part of Dawn in this example.  

Exactly. Dawn can have as much Summers blood as she wants, this should have no bearing whatsoever on Buffy being a spare Key. The cause and effect chain is in the opposite direction. If Warren had used Buffy's DNA to make the Bot, that wouldn't have made Buffy a robot, would it?

And don't get me started on the pointlessness of Dawn literally being made of Summers blood (or DNA or whatever). It's magic, conjuring stuff out of thin air is par for the course.

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Dawnie is the most precious thing in the world, why do you think the monks made her the little sister

Because they were a bunch of clueless idiots is my theory. Expecting Buffy to defeat an opponent so much stronger than her was a really stupid plan. Yes, I know it worked through the miracle of writer fiat but it really shouldn't have. It is like giving something important to a kid and expecting the kid to protect it from an MMA champion. It might work but only through blind luck.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yes, the dumb monk who, IIRC, led Glory to Sunnydale in the first place, said nothing about any blood connection. Probably because Joss hadn't pulled that twist out of his posterior at the time. He isn't exactly a fan of long-term planning in his plotting. Buffy jumped to her death based on a hunch. A hunch which supplied her with the premise of her conclusion. Premise - "Dawn is made of me". Conclusion - "I am therefore a spare Key". Not only was the premise a shot in the dark but the conclusion was a painfully obvious fallacy. Giving up your life and risking the destruction of the entire world based on a hunch and a fallacy isn't heroic, it's stupid, IMO. What's worse is that it worked and showed to me that the writer was being stupid, not the character.

Exactly. Dawn can have as much Summers blood as she wants, this should have no bearing whatsoever on Buffy being a spare Key. The cause and effect chain is in the opposite direction. If Warren had used Buffy's DNA to make the Bot, that wouldn't have made Buffy a robot, would it?

And don't get me started on the pointlessness of Dawn literally being made of Summers blood (or DNA or whatever). It's magic, conjuring stuff out of thin air is par for the course.

Because they were a bunch of clueless idiots is my theory. Expecting Buffy to defeat an opponent so much stronger than her was a really stupid plan. Yes, I know it worked through the miracle of writer fiat but it really shouldn't have. It is like giving something important to a kid and expecting the kid to protect it from an MMA champion. It might work but only through blind luck.

But Buffy was the only game in town? And she had already defeated formidable Big Bads and gained a worldwide reputation as Dracula comments. Again, it's a no lose scenario, if it works Dawn lives, if it doesn't she just follows Buffy off the tower and the 3 Summers girls can be together in heaven. 

[Smad]

On 10.6.2018 at 11:32 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Not of her choice, we see in s7 why Slayers have this dark sexual side.

 

We only see Buffy (not any other slayer btw) having this dark side because she has to have it in order to fit with Spike. That's why Buffy (both show and character) of the later years is forgettable. Everything became subordinate to Spike and Spike's story. And because everyone became talentless in the writers room.

 

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Marti Noxon on season six: "So we started toying with the idea of adult responsibilities and then decided we probably have to go to nasty sex instead. We tried out a bunch of those in "Flooded" and kind of dispensed with them, because then after an episode we were kind of like, "Well, we probably don't want her worrying about the actual realities of adult life because it got boring."

Enough said. So much about the often heralded 'realness' of S6 and fans loving it for that reason. Whatever.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 6/11/2018 at 6:00 PM, Smad said:

We only see Buffy (not any other slayer btw) having this dark side because she has to have it in order to fit with Spike. That's why Buffy (both show and character) of the later years is forgettable. Everything became subordinate to Spike and Spike's story. And because everyone became talentless in the writers room.

 

Enough said. So much about the often heralded 'realness' of S6 and fans loving it for that reason. Whatever.

Really? You don't think Faith shows the dark and kinky?

Spoiler

Even Kennedy with her pierced tongue and Amanda with her fondness for Robin Wood or the Potentials enjoying watching Buffy straddle Spike? 

 It's not just nasty sex in s6, we still see Buffy cope with the DMP and Dawn's delinquency etc. 

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Really? You don't think Faith shows the dark and kinky?

 

Faith's darkness never had anything to do with her being a slayer. And when Faith developed and grew up and dropped the mask, she actually became much more stable and normal. Faith trying to get something going with Angel/Angelus in S3 BtVS had nothing to do with wanting to get it on with a vamp and everything to do with taking something from Buffy. Faith has never shown an interest in vampires, even just for hot sex. Sure she flirts with anything but boning vampires, that's a 'Buffy only' deal so far.

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 It's not just nasty sex in s6, we still see Buffy cope with the DMP and Dawn's delinquency etc. 

It's real life portrayed in the most shallow way anyone can. These are people who are all from well off backgrounds trying to depict money problems and character flaws-turned addiction. Marti, see the quote above, makes it clear they had no idea about the topics and how to handle them. I mean it's right there in the quote. Why are you arguing against the showrunner of that Season? They didn't want realism, they wanted to pretend to be deep and used sex instead of actually showing talent (by doing a complex and real story). After all the fans use the excuse of liking S6 because it's real only because the creators constantly touted it back then. So the fans constantly touted it and still do. There is no need to argue what the showrunner herself said in a rare show of honesty.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Smad

[Joe Hellandback]

11 hours ago, Smad said:

Faith's darkness never had anything to do with her being a slayer. And when Faith developed and grew up and dropped the mask, she actually became much more stable and normal. Faith trying to get something going with Angel/Angelus in S3 BtVS had nothing to do with wanting to get it on with a vamp and everything to do with taking something from Buffy. Faith has never shown an interest in vampires, even just for hot sex. Sure she flirts with anything but boning vampires, that's a 'Buffy only' deal so far.

It's real life portrayed in the most shallow way anyone can. These are people who are all from well off backgrounds trying to depict money problems and character flaws-turned addiction. Marti, see the quote above, makes it clear they had no idea about the topics and how to handle them. I mean it's right there in the quote. Why are you arguing against the showrunner of that Season? They didn't want realism, they wanted to pretend to be deep and used sex instead of actually showing talent (by doing a complex and real story). After all the fans use the excuse of liking S6 because it's real only because the creators constantly touted it back then. So the fans constantly touted it and still do. There is no need to argue what the showrunner herself said in a rare show of honesty.

She flirts with Spike remember and is a very kinky girl in so many ways.

They do their best, this isn't The Shield

[Jack Shaftoe]

On 6/12/2018 at 1:00 AM, Smad said:

Marti Noxon on season six: "So we started toying with the idea of adult responsibilities and then decided we probably have to go to nasty sex instead. We tried out a bunch of those in "Flooded" and kind of dispensed with them, because then after an episode we were kind of like, "Well, we probably don't want her worrying about the actual realities of adult life because it got boring."

This explains so much. It's darkly hilarious how candid she is about the ineptitude of the writing team at that point. "We probably don't want her worrying about the actual realities of adult life" but at the same time the writers were claiming that the theme of the season was "Life is the Big Bad" or something like that and kept on dedicating lots of screen time to these supposedly boring "realities".

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They do their best, this isn't The Shield

But they didn't do their best, that's the whole point for those of us who don't like these season. I for one believe Marti and Joss and company could do much better. They honestly gave me the impression that they weren't really trying all that hard. Well, they seemed to be trying really hard to pander to Spike fans but other than that, nope.

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Faith trying to get something going with Angel/Angelus in S3 BtVS had nothing to do with wanting to get it on with a vamp and everything to do with taking something from Buffy. Faith has never shown an interest in vampires, even just for hot sex. Sure she flirts with anything but boning vampires, that's a 'Buffy only' deal so far.

Exactly. I don't like Faith at all but she has never shown any special in sex with vampires other than as a way to piss off Buffy.

[Smad]

On 12.6.2018 at 11:42 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

She flirts with Spike remember and is a very kinky girl in so many ways.

So what? That's just how Faith rolls. And I said that. But there is no proof that the demon in the slayers eventually leads all slayers to kinky vampire sex because 'darkness'. We see no other slayer, ever, go dark and jump on an undead body. That's only been Buffy. The darkness we have seen represented by other slayers, namely Faith and Dana, came from their very human issues and not any slayer demon. And you still didn't see them jump to have sex with a vampire. Faith only wanted to take Angel from Buffy in any way that she could, she didn't want Angel because she had a yearning for vampires.

As to Spike, Faith flirts with anything. And if you notice, that's where Faith leaves it at. She in fact decides to sleep with the very human Wood, instead of trying to get anywhere with a vampire. So this whole excuse of the show, that slayer going darkside leads to nasty vamp sex, is only proven by Buffy and no other slayer. Mainly because Buffy is the only slayer we ever saw that supposedly went dark/inhuman due to the fact that the slayer power comes from a demonic source. But in general, a slayer going dark doesn't equal vamp sex.

[Joe Hellandback]

11 minutes ago, Smad said:

So what? That's just how Faith rolls. And I said that. But there is no proof that the demon in the slayers eventually leads all slayers to kinky vampire sex because 'darkness'. We see no other slayer, ever, go dark and jump on an undead body. That's only been Buffy. The darkness we have seen represented by other slayers, namely Faith and Dana, came from their very human issues and not any slayer demon. And you still didn't see them jump to have sex with a vampire. Faith only wanted to take Angel from Buffy in any way that she could, she didn't want Angel because she had a yearning for vampires.

As to Spike, Faith flirts with anything. And if you notice, that's where Faith leaves it at. She in fact decides to sleep with the very human Wood, instead of trying to get anywhere with a vampire. So this whole excuse of the show, that slayer going darkside leads to nasty vamp sex, is only proven by Buffy and no other slayer. Mainly because Buffy is the only slayer we ever saw that supposedly went dark/inhuman due to the fact that the slayer power comes from a demonic source. But in general, a slayer going dark doesn't equal vamp sex.

The slayer deathwish? Or should that be life/sex/deathwish? As for Woods, remember he's the son of a Slayer who ends up dating 2? 

[Smad]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

The slayer deathwish? Or should that be life/sex/deathwish?

Doesn't exist. That was a bunch of BS touted by Spike to promote himself to Buffy. And anyone who listens to anything that guy says, is certifiable themselves. Not meaning you, meaning anyone in the show.

Spike has met 2 slayers before Buffy, as far as we know. That's what he's basing the 'deathwish' on. The problem is, neither of those slayers had a deathwish. Nikki had a son she loved so she had all the reasons in the world to want to live. The Chinese slayer wanted to get back to her mother. And in the case of the Chinese slayer, Spike didn't even understand her because he didn't speak Chinese. The deathwish is BS and just used by Spike to sound profound to Buffy, since he's all about getting closer to Buffy. And Spike knows happy, bubbly Buffy has no use for him. He's seen that a more fragile, hurt, vulnerable Buffy is more receptive to him. Having a deathwish would make Buffy darker, which is basically the prelude to what happens in S6. So no, slayers don't have deathwishes.

Faith tried to commit suicide by vampire but that doesn't equal a slayer specific deathwish because it had nothing to do with Faith being a slayer. Faith's downward spiral was all because of her very human issues. And she used the power given to her in self-destructive ways and the destruction of others. But it's not because of some slayer darkness or because the demon in her drove her to it.

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As for Woods, remember he's the son of a Slayer who ends up dating 2?

Doesn't matter. Wood is still human. However many slayers sleep with him doesn't matter. It just proves that the only one with a yearning for evil or morally questionable undead, has been Buffy. Because as far I know, she is still the ONLY slayer to do that. So it's not a slayer thing, it's a Buffy thing.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 10:18 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

This explains so much. It's darkly hilarious how candid she is about the ineptitude of the writing team at that point. "We probably don't want her worrying about the actual realities of adult life" but at the same time the writers were claiming that the theme of the season was "Life is the Big Bad" or something like that and kept on dedicating lots of screen time to these supposedly boring "realities".

But they didn't do their best, that's the whole point for those of us who don't like these season. I for one believe Marti and Joss and company could do much better. They honestly gave me the impression that they weren't really trying all that hard. Well, they seemed to be trying really hard to pander to Spike fans but other than that, nope.

Exactly. I don't like Faith at all but she has never shown any special in sex with vampires other than as a way to piss off Buffy.

She flirts with both Spike and Angelus? Arguably she may be stealing Buffy's boyfriend with Angelus but she had no idea Spike and Buffy were involved. As for the writing you must remember they were stretched over 3 shows, Buffy, Angel and Firefly. I always thought that 'having the inappropriate boyfriend and self destructive relationship' was part of growing up worked quite well.  

10 hours ago, Smad said:

Doesn't exist. That was a bunch of BS touted by Spike to promote himself to Buffy. And anyone who listens to anything that guy says, is certifiable themselves. Not meaning you, meaning anyone in the show.

Spike has met 2 slayers before Buffy, as far as we know. That's what he's basing the 'deathwish' on. The problem is, neither of those slayers had a deathwish. Nikki had a son she loved so she had all the reasons in the world to want to live. The Chinese slayer wanted to get back to her mother. And in the case of the Chinese slayer, Spike didn't even understand her because he didn't speak Chinese. The deathwish is BS and just used by Spike to sound profound to Buffy, since he's all about getting closer to Buffy. And Spike knows happy, bubbly Buffy has no use for him. He's seen that a more fragile, hurt, vulnerable Buffy is more receptive to him. Having a deathwish would make Buffy darker, which is basically the prelude to what happens in S6. So no, slayers don't have deathwishes.

Faith tried to commit suicide by vampire but that doesn't equal a slayer specific deathwish because it had nothing to do with Faith being a slayer. Faith's downward spiral was all because of her very human issues. And she used the power given to her in self-destructive ways and the destruction of others. But it's not because of some slayer darkness or because the demon in her drove her to it.

Doesn't matter. Wood is still human. However many slayers sleep with him doesn't matter. It just proves that the only one with a yearning for evil or morally questionable undead, has been Buffy. Because as far I know, she is still the ONLY slayer to do that. So it's not a slayer thing, it's a Buffy thing.

Nikki has her son, the Chinese Slayer has her mother, Buffy has Scoobies/her family, Faith has....?

[Smad]

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Nikki has her son, the Chinese Slayer has her mother, Buffy has Scoobies/her family, Faith has....?

The point is, neither of them had a slayer specific deathwish. None of them were looking for a way out because they were slayers. Spike deduced they lost against him because they wanted to die when in fact it was pure luck that he beat them, not a deathwish on their part. The same is true for Buffy. Any demon can get lucky and kill a slayer. That doesn't mean the slayer wants to die. Buffy didn't have a deathwish either that was because of her being the slayer. She was having one tragedy after another and she was tired of it. That's very human. Not really slayer specific.

[Joe Hellandback]

4 hours ago, Smad said:

The point is, neither of them had a slayer specific deathwish. None of them were looking for a way out because they were slayers. Spike deduced they lost against him because they wanted to die when in fact it was pure luck that he beat them, not a deathwish on their part. The same is true for Buffy. Any demon can get lucky and kill a slayer. That doesn't mean the slayer wants to die. Buffy didn't have a deathwish either that was because of her being the slayer. She was having one tragedy after another and she was tired of it. That's very human. Not really slayer specific.

But that's what the Slayer's life leads to, isolation and weariness, she knows that one day one of the nasties she fights will have that one lucky day. I always thought that was part of the reason Dawn was so precious to her, she may inevitably die young but she can live on through Dawn.  

[Smad]

16 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

But that's what the Slayer's life leads to, isolation and weariness, she knows that one day one of the nasties she fights will have that one lucky day. I always thought that was part of the reason Dawn was so precious to her, she may inevitably die young but she can live on through Dawn.  

No it doesn't lead to isolation. It only leads to isolation if you let it, if you chose to go there. Like everywhere in life, even for regular people. That's a problem with Buffy in the Dawnverse. Whedon & Co. were so focused to isolate Buffy, whether it's to pull off a new family member or later Spike, that she was turned into this isolationist, weak quitter. Someone who preferred to live in misery with a martyr complex a mile long.

And again, there is no proof for any of that except with Buffy. And she is just one slayer in a long line of them. For example, I don't see how Kendra would ever reach that point. Kendra was removed from all the things/people with meaning, so she would probably never become weary like Buffy. I don't see reformed Faith reaching that point either.

And I really didn't sign on for Joyce The Vampire Slayer. One of the saddest things Buffy has ever said on the show was 'I have a life. I have Dawn's life.' Buffy gave up on everything for herself, like a true quitter. I prefer the Buffy that was there before Dawn, the one who would fight for a life outside of slaying and who once called her human emotions and ties a strength. The one who replied to Wesley's snotty insinuation that she's a slayer ('nothing more' is implied there) with 'I'm also a person.'. Give me that fighter over the last Seasons quitter any day.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Smad

[Jack Shaftoe]

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But that's what the Slayer's life leads to, isolation and weariness, she knows that one day one of the nasties she fights will have that one lucky day.

But she doesn't -  If she did, she wouldn't bother with going to school, applying to colleges, etc. She only occasionally thought of giving up, like in season 5 - an extremely traumatic time for her (and with the biggest reason for depression having nothing to do with Slaying) and even then she didn't really give up and only committed a suicide to save the world (through the power of plot contrivance). Considering that Slaying is an unpaid, yet extremely demanding and dangerous, job, I think Buffy has a remarkable will to live and for the most part a very positive attitude about her situation. To me this "death wish" is just some more nonsense that Spike pulled out of his posterior. Like the idea that he likes to duel honorably with Slayers one one one, even though we have seen him use the help of his minions for that quite a few times.

[Halting Hex]

Well, the show certainly wants us to believe that Spike's "death is your art" speech is accurate, with Buffy only being "tied to the world" because of Joyce and Dawn and the Scoobies.  So take Joyce away and put Dawn in danger, and Buffy goes all catatonic/suicidal (the Scoobs apparently being left out of the equation, after all…grr…)

Problem being that less than three seasons before, another vampiric creep talked about Buffy having been stripped of everything ("No weapons, no friends, no hope") and asked where that put her.  ("Take all that away, and what's left?")  And Buffy didn't let him kill her…she caught the fucking sword.  (And fought her way through the major depression afterwards.)  So Spike is, as always, full of shit.  Except that the writers slant things in his favor, of course.

Really, inside the story, there's no earthly reason for Spuffy.  He has some special wisdom that means only he can relate to Buffy?  Yeah, surrrre.  (And Giles and Xander have demonstrated this to a far better extent, anyhow.)  He's Just Too Sexy?  Please, it's not as if Buffy can't attract lots of guys.  Buffy is only attracted to vampires?  Never stated on the show, just in the imaginations of the 'shippers.  She's grateful because he protects Dawn?  Hell of a reason for a relationship and anyways Spike doesn't protect Dawn this season (indeed, he actively avoids her [allegedly because once 39-year-old James started writing songs about how 15-year-old Michelle was "dangerous" to him because she was so attractive, TPTB thought that having them share scenes was…not the best idea]) and Dawn hasn't been in danger since Glory took Buffy's advice and left town (well, that's what Buffy thinks, Giles not having mentioned the Ben-smothering…), except for when she does something stupid on her own, like go on a date with a boy she's never seen in daylight.  So, screw Spike.  (Not like that, Buffy!  Sheesh.)

I look at the "relationship" and all I can see is Joss stealing from himself and pandering, both to the network that wanted those old Bangel ratings back, and to the segment of the fanbase that thought that Buffy's "love life" was what the show was about, instead of Buffy's life and her journey through it.  One basic reason for preferring the high school seasons to UPN, aside from how the show was just generally faster-paced and funnier back then, is that Angel was never allowed to eat the series and sideline the other characters the way that Spike did.  And that B/A was a story about Buffy, how she falls in love and gets her heart broken, how she deals with "really, I thought you were a pro" and so on.  

Whereas The Spike Show is all about Sparky's journey towards "redemption" and Buffy is reduced to a supporting character on her own series, and basically an antagonist.  Oh, why won't she admit she loves Spike? That bitch! After all 

Spoiler

he got a SOOOOOOULL for her! Seriously, when you create [incredibly boring] "psychic" characters like Cassie in Help just so they can throw a cryptic crumb ("Someday she will tell you") to the 'shipper base, you know you've lost the plot.

Additionally, while Season 3 also tried one of my least favorite tactics, making Willow and Xander into Dirty Rotten Cheaters so that they don't have the high ground to object to Buffy sneaking around with the guy who was trying to kill them all not long before (but don't worry, he's found That Pesky Soul [it was in his other pants], and he'll never, ever lose it again…honest!), at least the W/X "affair" was a romantic plot that played off of two seasons' worth of positive build-up and which overall gave good vibes towards the characters.  As opposed to say, telling us that Willow is crazy, power-mad, and dangerous, and Xander is a fat coward who's too scared to step up and take responsibility for his life.

(I swear, I really can't deal with Bargaining Part 1, where Entitled Bitch From Hell Anya is sniping at Xander for not announcing the engagement in the exact same episode where they [correctly] specify that Xander isn't old enough to buy beer legally.  Yeah, he totally needs to "be a man" at age 20 and make that life-long commitment. The hell?)

Because, you know, I've spent five years liking Willow and Xander (and runaway Giles, now rewritten as another "abandoning bad Daddy"…like Hank, only more English), and a plot that tells me I should really be hating them and rooting for Spike to "rescue" that fucked up Slayer with his Twu and Selfless Wuv…yeah, not so much.  Sorry, Joss…I'm NOT rooting for "those two crazy kids to work things out".  I'm really, really hoping she stakes his ass.  Even now. Really.

So, long story short (ha!) you definitely don't have to be a "Bangler" (as Joe suggested in the School Hard thread) to despise Spike, Spuffy, and S6.  They suck quite well enough on their own, IMO.

(Okay, I do think that David is the better looking vampire, I admit.  What can I say, I like my "hunks" hunky, not "compact and tightly muscled".  But I swear, that's not the main issue here.  If it were, Buffy would have been dating Cordelia…mmm, Buffelia…)

[Halting Hex]

20 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

Ew, I love Cordelia, BUT  if Buffy had dated any woman, then it could only have been FAITH. 

Hey, I won't kick Eliza out of bed, but I rate Charisma just a little bit higher, visually.

And this is a purely-superficial opinion.  If we're talking actual dating and such, with feelings and everything, then obviously Buffy's soulmate is Willow.  As made canon from the moment Buffy loses all interest in Cordy and her "coolness quiz" once she sees CC being all "glad you've seen the softer side of Sears" at the water fountain in Welcome to the Hellmouth.

There's a reason Buffy went looking for Willow right after that, after all. :)  But JMO.

Wow, this is completely OT for Season 6, isn't it?  Okay, let me mention that they should have kept the deleted lines from Normal Again :

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BUFFY:  I could wrestle naked in grease for a living and still be cleaner than after a shift at the Doublemeat.

WILLOW:  Plus, I'd visit you at work every single day.

…and we're good, right?  (And also, rawr!  Damn it, why can't we have nice things?)

Edited June 16, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎16‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 8:22 PM, nosleepforme said:

Ew, I love Cordelia, BUT  if Buffy had dated any woman, then it could only have been FAITH. 

Amen to that, Fuffy forever!

On ‎16‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 8:28 PM, Halting Hex said:

Hey, I won't kick Eliza out of bed, but I rate Charisma just a little bit higher, visually.

And this is a purely-superficial opinion.  If we're talking actual dating and such, with feelings and everything, then obviously Buffy's soulmate is Willow.  As made canon from the moment Buffy loses all interest in Cordy and her "coolness quiz" once she sees CC being all "glad you've seen the softer side of Sears" at the water fountain in Welcome to the Hellmouth.

There's a reason Buffy went looking for Willow right after that, after all. :)  But JMO.

Wow, this is completely OT for Season 6, isn't it?  Okay, let me mention that they should have kept the deleted lines from Normal Again :

…and we're good, right?  (And also, rawr!  Damn it, why can't we have nice things?)

What a shame they dropped that, it would have sent the fans wild! 

[Halting Hex]

On 6/15/2018 at 3:05 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Spoiler

But she can't, she loves him just as she loved Xander. 

 

Clearly not "just as", else there would have been

Spoiler

a copious amount of B/X boinkage.  Which truth be told, might have gotten just as old as the "edgy" crap that infested that season did, anyhow.  I don't need to see Nick bending SMG over the Bronze railing anymore than I needed to see it with Scrawny McBitchboy, either.

Some words have different contexts and conflating them does language a disservice, IMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎26‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 6:40 PM, The Raw Category said:

  Hide contents

Can you remind me in what episode did Xander become a vampire? I forgot. (Come to think of it, Buffy was a vampire once too. That was terrifying.)

I wish he had a more serious role on CM. I feel like NB has a lot of acting range that was completely wasted. 
 

Spoiler

He was a vamp in The Wish. 

8 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Clearly not "just as", else there would have been

  Hide contents

a copious amount of B/X boinkage.  Which truth be told, might have gotten just as old as the "edgy" crap that infested that season did, anyhow.  I don't need to see Nick bending SMG over the Bronze railing anymore than I needed to see it with Scrawny McBitchboy, either.

Some words have different contexts and conflating them does language a disservice, IMO.

That wasn't love, raw, edgy, kinky, dark 5th base sex but not love. Personally I would still like to see Bander, it almost happens in the comics.  

[lembergwatcher]

Let's start with the UO. I like Bargaining (not everything in it, but generally). And the fact that they allowed one of my favorite characters to do "one fine thing" in the last moments of the season's finale after spending most of the season making him look like a useless POS... A couple of episodes that a barely bearable to watch. And that's it.

There are few people out there who claim to find Dark Willow to be "cool". I'm certainly not one of them.

The less said about Buffy/Spike "love story", the freakin' Trio (the fact those dweebs were supposed to be the season's main (!) antagonists is plain offensive), the wedding (I get violent every time I think about it) and that Vastly Overrated Musical Episode Devoid of Logic, the better. 

Probably the JossTeam thought that making an effort just sucked. They could have hired some new writers with fresh ideas and some respect for the main characters.

And last but not least - in my case anyway - sometimes watching SMG, AH, NB and EC, who happened to be in their mid-to-late twenties and early thirties during the shooting of the season, made it really hard to believe we were dealing with the kids who supposed to be not over 22 (or look like ones in Anya's case). 20-year old Sarah, 23-year old Aly and 26-year old Nick were quite convincing as the bunch of the 16-year olds when the show started, but that's faded five years later. At least Michelle was Dawn's age and James played an immortal vampire.

Edited August 20, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

I wonder how much the age-inappropriateness was on the change in cinematographers; did Ray Stella not know how to shoot the actors so they looked young, the way that Gershman did?  Because, after all, it ought to be easier for Nick at 30 to pass for Xander at 20 than for Nick at 25 to pass for Xander at 16, since the nine-year gap is now less of a proportion of Nick's actual age.  

But the thing of it is, they're writing the characters to be closer to the actors' ages now.  Xander has lived on his own for over a year, is the successful foreman of a construction team, and is being pressured to make a lifelong commitment and get married, already.  All perfectly normal for NB in his normal life, where he lives on his own, has his own career, and got married himself in 2001…but a bit "old" for Xander who, as Bargaining Part 1 helpfully reminds us, isn't old enough to buy beer legally.  And SMG having to play "mom" to Michelle, despite being barely seven years older than her, threw the character off terribly.

I honestly don't understand the choices here.  Why the urge to write Buffy as a woman in a midlife crisis?  Being 20/21 is challenging enough, on its own, honestly.

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

But the thing of it is, they're writing the characters to be closer to the actors' ages now. 

For it makes "perfect sense". Apparently Buffyverse has its own... I don't know, age-sensitivity or something.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 1:48 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Let's start with the UO. I like Bargaining (not everything in it, but generally). And the fact that they allowed one of my favorite characters to do "one fine thing" in the last moments of the season's finale after spending most of the season making him look like a useless POS... A couple of episodes that a barely bearable to watch. And that's it.

There are few people out there who claim to find Dark Willow to be "cool". I'm certainly not one of them.

The less said about Buffy/Spike "love story", the freakin' Trio (the fact those dweebs were supposed to be the season's main (!) antagonists is plain offensive), the wedding (I get violent every time I think about it) and that Vastly Overrated Musical Episode Devoid of Logic, the better. 

Probably the JossTeam thought that making an effort just sucked. They could have hired some new writers with fresh ideas and some respect for the main characters.

And last but not least - in my case anyway - sometimes watching SMG, AH, NB and EC, who happened to be in their mid-to-late twenties and early thirties during the shooting of the season, made it really hard to believe we were dealing with the kids who supposed to be not over 22 (or look like ones in Anya's case). 20-year old Sarah, 23-year old Aly and 26-year old Nick were quite convincing as the bunch of the 16-year olds when the show started, but that's faded five years later. At least Michelle was Dawn's age and James played an immortal vampire.

They were okay, remember Jeff Conway was 30 when he played Kenicke in Grease. 

[lembergwatcher]

Special thanks goes to @Halting Hex for inspiring some of that stuff. 

[lembergwatcher]

[Joe Hellandback]

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

1. Of course! 3. Ironically we never see Xander drunk among the core 4.  

[illdoc]

19 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

3. Ironically we never see Xander drunk among the core 4.  

Seemed drunk (or at least tipsy) during....whatever that episode is (at any given moment, I know the titles of very few episodes) where Warren uses his "strength balls" (knocking Xander across the room). And...when did we see Willow drunk?

Edited September 6, 2018 by illdoc

[Jack Shaftoe]

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

And...when did we see Willow drunk?

Something Blue.

[Joe Hellandback]

14 hours ago, illdoc said:

Seemed drunk (or at least tipsy) during....whatever that episode is (at any given moment, I know the titles of very few episodes) where Warren uses his "strength balls" (knocking Xander across the room). And...when did we see Willow drunk?

We see him drinking, we never see him drunk

[Halting Hex]

Watching the "behind the scenes" footage for the musical on YouTube (as part of larger "extras" vid) and they show the rehearsals for "Life's a Show" and then the finished version and there's another Amber Benson screw-up that I hadn't spotted before (because I don't generally rewatch that episode, or anything from this season, bar Normal Again).  I remember her blowing the step on the turn and then her being off for at least the next two shots and wondering why Joss just didn't do another take, but here we see Buffy doing a pirouette in the foreground (with Sarah briefly masking Amber) but we can also see Amber fixing her hair in the background, brushing a stray lock out of her face.

Jeez, Joss, at some point give it up and just do another take.  I'm not trying to beat up on Amber here (for all I know, the reason that Joss was desperate to use this take is because Sarah had been having trouble with the previous ones), but come on, if it's not working, it's not working.  Sheesh.

ETA:

1.26-Amber blows the step on the turn

1.40-Amber tries to use Sarah's pirouette to mask her brushing off her sweater and then fixing her hair.

I mean, if it was Cordelia, I could see her being vain enough to groom herself when she's supposed to be helping Buffy against the bad guy, but Tara is supposedly made of less-shallow stuff.  Annoying.

Do a re-take, Joss! Jeez!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Jack Shaftoe]

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

It bothered me more that everybody but Spike would just stand around and see Buffy dance to set herself on fire. Certainly any member of the Scoobie Gang could have interrupted her dance performance.  

That's just a microcosm of Spike's role since season 4... in order for him to shine, the Scoobs had to behave like OOC morons.

[lembergwatcher]

Things they never said in season 6 (but should have said). Sorry.

[Halting Hex]

I just realized that because Spike makes that dramatic last-second rescue of Buffy when she's dervishing and about to combust, he didn't actually hear what she was singing about.

Granted, he'd already been clued in about the whole "heeeeeeeeeaven" deal (wow, do I hate After Life) but how does he know Buffy was singing about "life" so that he can pop in with "Life's not a song", etc?  I mean, unless he was lurking, off-camera, and just stood around and watched her spin, but that would make Darling Spike no better than the rest, and clearly that can't be true, right?

And while I'm hating this stinking pile, let's have a round of projectile vomiting at our closing number, "Where Do We Go From Here?"  During which, you'll recall, our emotionally-battered heroine (who just nearly died) sulks off, followed closely by a soulless serial killer (restrained only by a soon-to-be-faulty chip) while her sister and friends do a fucking dance routine.  And let's not say it was the spell that made them do it; Sweet's gone, and Spike steps out with no more effort than a "bugger this".

But, you know, we need the "romantic close" of the Big Spuffy Kiss.  We're just lucky that Those Stupid Humans know not to get in the way of our climactic smoochies.

"Where Do We Go From Here?"  Straight down the shitter, I'd say.  (Except that we're already there, technically.)

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

"Where Do We Go From Here?"  Straight down the shitter, I'd say.

I guess "WDWGFH" was somehow about the general mood among the series' writers post-season 5...

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 10:44 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

That's just a microcosm of Spike's role since season 4... in order for him to shine, the Scoobs had to behave like OOC morons.

But Spike was the only one amongst them who had come back from the dead and with being chipped he had an idea of what it felt like to be 'deadened' to a degree, of being in the world but feeling like you don't belong?

On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 12:13 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Things they never said in season 6 (but should have said). Sorry.

THAT would have been a turn up for the books! But I think by this stage Dawnie had got over her crush on Xander. 

On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 2:30 AM, lembergwatcher said:

I guess "WDWGFH" was somehow about the general mood among the series' writers post-season 5...

I never considered it like that, s6 does feel somewhat 'lost' but rallies for the end and s7 is one of my favourites.  

[Halting Hex]

So I was decrying the lack of vampire-induced death in this season

Spoiler

and in S7, Zach's killing of Kaltenbach being the very last vampiric murder ever on the show; 26.4% of the entire series, completely deadly-vampire-free!  Oy!

and I realized that there really isn't that much death, period, this year.  UPN's infamous lack of censors may have led to "too much sex on this freaking show!" (as SMG says in an outtake), but there wasn't anywhere near a commensurate rise in violence.  Indeed, the whole season saw fewer human deaths than in S1, which was barely half the length.  If Don Sample had started his famous "Buffy Body Count" with this season, he'd have probably nodded off out of boredom.

Let's take a look:

6.01-The vampire in the teaser has marzipan put in his pie plate before he can harm anyone.  Even when Buffybot malfunctions, the Hanson-tee-shirted (HST?) vamp merely walks off, rather than, you know, feed.  Those mean, mean demon bikers dust the HST vamp and break a lot of windows and stuff, but don't actually kill anybody.

6.02-The Hellions are hell on Botty, but not so much on actual humans.  They do more damage to the noise-pollution laws than to Sunnydale's citizenry.

6.03-The Hitchhiker demon makes Anya harm herself, but she gets better.  (Unfortunately…)

6.04-The M'Fashnik demon doesn't kill the Scoobies, doesn't kill the Trio, and doesn't kill anyone at the bank.  M'Fucking useless.

6.05-Warren's tests are all non-lethal, and even the kittens escape Poker Night, thankfully.

6.06-Ah, death!  Zach kills Kaltenbach!  And…that's it, but one is better than none.

6.07-Okay, here we go.  The demon summoned by (allegedly) Xander causes at least two deaths.  (Giles speaks of "victims".)  Way to go, bro…we knew you could do it.

So, to recap, we're one-third of the way through the season and Xander is the leading menace to life in Sunnydale.  That's what you get for calling him a "Zeppo", people!  The Spider-Eating Man-Bitch will NOT be mocked!

6.08-Various demons attack various Amnesia!Scoobs, but all are defeated.  

6.09-Spike tries to prove he's almost as evil as Xander, but fails horribly, unable to bite the girl in the alley.  The boys that Willow and Amy mess with at the Bronze lose nothing but their dignity, and even Rusty the Senior Security Guard is fine, thawed out with hairdryers after the Freeze Ray was used on him.

6.10-Willow gets herself and Dawn chased by a demon, but Willow kills it. No harm, no problem.

6.11-The I-Ray nearly turns Buffy into pudding, but it doesn't; Warren seems as though he might want to kill Buffy and/or Willow, but he doesn't.

HALF-SEASON DEATH TOLL:

Xander-2 (or more)

Everything else-1

Are we sure we're on a Hellmouth?  I mean, seriously.

6.12-The Wig Lady kills Gary and Manny, and it's implied she's killed others before this, but we don't get confirmation on any beyond those two.

6.13-Warren kills Katrina.

6.14-The Sword-Demon is a freaking pain to kill, what with the hopping in and out of walls, but Buffy gets it, eventually.  No casualties; Richard Red-Shirt is even able to walk off to the hospital, at the end.

6.15-Lots of talk about how dangerous the Suvolte demons (and their eggs) can be, but Riley disposes of the "bear" without damage to anything beyond a mailbox and Spike's record collection.  Boo, Spud…don't hype.

6.16-Demonic Stewart Burns starts a fight, but ultimately doesn't kill anything beyond Anya's dreams of "Missus"-dom.  Which, fair enough, but still.

6.17-The Glark-G'hul-ah-screw-it doesn't poke anyone to death, not even with Buffy temporarily helping it.

6.18-The Trio talks, Anya tries to trick Xander's friends into murdering him, and Spike and Anya screw, but the only violence anybody actually does in this episode is Xander punching Spike.  Once again proving that Xander is pretty much the only dangerous being in Sunnydale.  Mwah-ha-ha!

6.19-Warren kills Tara.

6.20-Willow kills Warren.  (No wonder the vampires in the bar didn't believe Warren when he claimed he'd killed Buffy.  Who kills anyone in Sunnydale?  Vampires have a whopping one kill this entire year.)

6.21-Willow kills Rack.

6.22-A little chat about yellow crayons, and Willow is fine.  Well, murderers speak each other's language, right?  Andrew and Jonathan, who bear some legal responsibility for Katrina's death, break their promise and flee the law, but don't worry…that trucker looks horny!  (Remember:  gay rape is ALWAYS SO FUNNY!!!)

Final stats for the season:

Xander-2 kills, possibly more

Willow-2 kills

Warren-2 kills

Wig Lady-2 kills, plus likely unseen others

Zach-Kaltenbach

Or: former SHS students, 6 confirmed kills; all other forces of evil, 3 confirmed deaths.  Sheesh.  If only Buffy had blown the place up sooner.

By contrast, here's Season 1:

Welcome to the Hellmouth:  Darla kills Chris Boal (name from an early version of the script; the real Chris is a longtime friend of Joss) and sticks him in Aura's locker.

The Harvest:  Luke (likely) sires Jesse (bamp-chick-bamp-bamp!), then kills the bouncer at the Bronze, a blonde girl, and possibly others

Witch:  No deaths; Catherine!Amy only harms people (although Buffy would have died) and the spells fade once she's dealt with.

Teacher's Pet:  "Natalie" kills Dr. Gregory and at least one virgin mate. (Blayne tells Xander "I saw her do it!" while they're in the cages.)  Fork Guy Karl kills a homeless man in Wetherly Park, off-screen.

NKOTB: Donnie Wahlberg kills five people in the bus, including Collin and Andrew Borba, in accordance with the prophecy.

The Pack:  Principal Flutie was "crunchy!", no doubt.  (Also, Buffy kills Dr. Weirick, but that's self-defense.)

Angel:  No human deaths, just vamp-on-vamp violence.

I Rupert, You Jenny: Fritz kills Dave, Moloch kills Fritz.  (And Carlo, 500 years ago, but we can forgive Buffy for that one, IMO.)

The Puppet Show:  Marc kills Emily, then Morgan.  (Although Morgan was doomed, anyhow.)

Nightmares:  No human deaths, Buffy's vampification being an illusion.

OOM, OOS:  No deaths, Marcie only liked maiming people.  (Sheesh, two in a row.  Town's going soft…)

Prophecy Girl:  Vampires kill at least four AV club members, plus Kevin.

S6: 9 (confirmed) deaths in 22 episodes

S1:  22 (confirmed) deaths in 12 episodes.

No wonder Xander stopped "hid[ing] until [danger] goes away." It went away, for sure.  Sheesh.

[lembergwatcher]

26 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Those mean, mean demon bikers dust the HST vamp and break a lot of windows and stuff, but don't actually kill anybody.

I'm not sure they don't kill anybody. What if they do it, you know, off-screen? We don't see everything, after all. Buffy's neighbors seem non-existent after Bargaining, Part 2, so... who knows?..
 

34 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

No wonder Xander stopped "hid[ing] until [danger] goes away." It went away, for sure.  Sheesh.

I guess there was some significant drop in Sunnydale's vampiric population. Years of slayage led to some consequences, you know...

[Halting Hex]

Well, we don't know that anybody doesn't kill anybody, off-screen (for all we know, Pat could have been baking people into empanadas in between book-club meetings), but there's no on-screen indication of off-screen death there.  As opposed to Blayne saying he witnessed "Natalie" eat somebody's head, or Giles reporting on the body found in Wetherly Park, or the Doublemeat employees talking about various staff that "went poof" (as Buffy says) and the Wig Lady implying that she killed them.  We see a Hellion grab a woman and ride off with her on his motorcycle, but obviously that's survivable, until we get information otherwise.

[lembergwatcher]

14 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

We see a Hellion grab a woman and ride off with her on his motorcycle, but obviously that's survivable, until we get information otherwise.

Considering Razor's words about the Hellions' anatomy, I doubt she survived an intercourse with any of demon bikers...

[lembergwatcher]

On 5/31/2019 at 11:03 PM, Halting Hex said:

Are we sure we're on a Hellmouth?  I mean, seriously.

I guess it was natural that after several years of Buffy & the gang's demon hunting vampire-induced death rate dropped significantly.

[Halting Hex]

A couple of clean-ups.   My S1 carnage count had one glaring omission:

On 5/31/2019 at 4:03 PM, Halting Hex said:

Prophecy Girl:  Vampires kill at least four AV club members, plus Kevin.

Plus, of course, Buffy herself, snuffed by HJ Nest just as she was (twice?) in Nightmares (however unreal those turned out to be) and will again be in The Wish (alternate realities aside).  Yes, she got better (thanks, Xander!), but it still counts, as Buffy, Willow, Kendra and Giles discuss in What's My Line, part 2.  So that should 23 dead in 12 S1 episodes.  My bad.

And, on a lighter note:

On 9/7/2018 at 7:52 PM, Halting Hex said:

And while I'm hating this stinking pile, let's have a round of projectile vomiting at our closing number, "Where Do We Go From Here?"  During which, you'll recall, our emotionally-battered heroine (who just nearly died) sulks off, followed closely by a soulless serial killer (restrained only by a soon-to-be-faulty chip) while her sister and friends do a fucking dance routine.  And let's not say it was the spell that made them do it; Sweet's gone, and Spike steps out with no more effort than a "bugger this".

While I'm much tempted to stand by my venom here, dispassionate analysis suggests that there must have been some residual mojo to account for most of the cast doing One Last Number despite Spuffy taking a smoochie break outside.  Since, absent any magical interference, the Scoobs do generally NOT launch themselves into random dance routines, as a rule. 

But…wouldn't it be great if they did???

Innocence, Act III (revised)

Quote

CORDELIA:  So, there's an unstoppable planet-killing demon on the loose, Angel's joined his team, and the Slayer's a basket case.  I'd say we've hit rock-bottom.

JENNY:  C'mon, everybody!  It's Macarena time!

(She tosses streamers in the air, Willow flicks on the boom-box that's [somehow] on the table, and they jam.  Until…]

GILES (angrily):  STOP!  

(They do. Music ceases.)

GILES (continuing):  Xander, how many times must I remind you that you cannot simply launch into the Charleston any time you feel like it?  That's an entirely different dance!

XANDER (quiet):  Sorry.  (mutters) Geez, who died and made him Busby Berkeley?

(Music resumes.)

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Halting Hex

[MagnusHex]

Pretty much done with this season. I've reached Hell's Bells, got the ending spoiled for me on some review site, and yet, I'm not that fazed. Just going through the motions with this season until I'm done with it. I've just been so bored watching this season. I thought it would've been more high-tension, darker and more depressing. What a disappointment that nothing's gone to hell yet, and I'm just bored waiting for Seeing Red so that I could actually get excited about something.

And god, those geeks are so boring as antagonists. I thought Glory was bad enough as a generic superpowered villain with no other unique characteristics (aside from super strength), but man, that trio really takes the cake, not just in how creepy they are with their desire to enslave Buffy as a piece of meat to be fucked and controlled, but also how non-threatening they ended up as, just disappearing suddenly after Dead Things.

Don't get me started with Spuffy. SPUFFY. What a fucking joke. I'm sorry to all the shippers out there, but if this was my shipping, I would've jumped ship. This "will they/won't they" "will she quit the addiction or won't she" phase was dragged out SO LONG. So long. Way too long. Too long. Period. Episode after episode. It's exhausting and tiresome. I got bored by the third time she whined about wanting to quit Spike and then proceeded to use him again. Sigh. I get how addiction works, but as Hitchcock said, "What is drama but life with the dull bits cut out?" Good drama doesn't require 5 or 6 episodes dragging out what is realistic in real life.

Boring, boring, boring. Meanwhile, Angel S3 is kicking all kinds of ass, but that's a different show for a different topic.

Edit: Well, okay, so just finished "Hell's Bells" and realized I was guilty of the ol' "spoken too soon" yet again. I did enjoy Hell's Bells" (more on that in the episode thread), but I still stand by my earlier remark that the season thus far has been kinda dull.

Edit 2: Also, could Dawn be any more unlikable this season? "GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!" Also, don't say that it's just because she's a teenager. I don't believe that hormones can inherently make a person that unlikable, no matter their age. I know likable teens who are rational and mature. It's Dawn, not her age that defines her. Saying "she's a teenager" is like blaming a woman's faults because of her period. It's wrong.

Edited March 21, 2021 by MagnusHex

[Jediknight]

3 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Pretty much done with this season. I've reached Hell's Bells, got the ending spoiled for me on some review site, and yet, I'm not that fazed. Just going through the motions with this season until I'm done with it. I've just been so bored watching this season. I thought it would've been more high-tension, darker and more depressing. What a disappointment that nothing's gone to hell yet, and I'm just bored waiting for Seeing Red so that I could actually get excited about something.

And god, those geeks are so boring as antagonists. I thought Glory was bad enough as a generic superpowered villain with no other unique characteristics (aside from super strength), but man, that trio really takes the cake, not just in how creepy they are with their desire to enslave Buffy as a piece of meat to be fucked and controlled, but also how non-threatening they ended up as, just disappearing suddenly after Dead Things.

Oh, you're gonna want to stick around.  You'll do a 180 on the Trio's lack of being a threat.  Warren is the most vile piece of shit to be in this show.

[Halting Hex]

So FUSE has reached S6, which means I'm not going to be adding to my archive so much.  Just Normal Again, I think.

Yes, Life Serial and As You Were and Hell's Bells and even Seeing Red  are functional episodes, but I just don't see the point in subjecting myself to the Spuffy "love story", whether it's Buffy in denial about how hot she is for Good Friend Spike or their "breakup" or their "moving on" chat at the wedding.

Even the joy of a strong Scoob-centric episode is somewhat soiled by Spike's blithering about how Buffy's in denial about how much she needs Ice Penis or whatever the fuck he says, but he's only in three scenes here, and one of them features Xander not only punching "Willie Wanna-Bite" in the face, but taunting him first.  The other two I can FF, I suppose.  Later, Sparky.

(Now watch, I'll screw things up and manage to not record it.  That's only happened with IWMTLY so far, though. Fingers crossed…)

[Halting Hex]

That SMG/JLH pic in the Calendar thread had me checking out other vintage Sarah snaps and look at this:

UPN TV Critics event, July 16 2001.  Given how badly the "cast pics" had been photoshopped since S3, it's nice to see the gang actually together.  Aly looks so lovely…and MT is showing why they had to work to hide her development. 😉

(If that doesn't bring Joe out of lurkdom, idk what will.)

Edited August 3, 2023 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

No surprise that Zap2It's house photog thought that Emma (and her shirt) should be photographed out in the sunlight, as she's looking…healthy:

And the season may have been a rough one for fans of the Xan-Man, but Nick apparently has the Great Roofie Spirit bringing him dates:

Spoiler

Or a letterman's jacket, I suppose.

Nice pose by Amber, there.  I guess even at this point, she knew where Tara's plot was going, huh?

[Halting Hex]

Continuing from the above, we all recall the famous "Three Musketeers" photo, seen several times through the seasons.  (Inca Mummy Girl, Hallowe'en, Dead Man's Party, and Primeval, at least.) More than one picture was used, and I don't think this was either of them, just the trio all smiles between takes:

Well, by S6, S2 was loooong gone, as I've been known to lament.  But clearly somebody at the time of the "Xander and the girls" pic (in the previous post) at least recalled how iconic the "Three Musketeers" pic was, as they shot this nodding homage, as well:

Nice to know that the past wasn't as forgotten by the cast as the scripts seemed to make it seem.  Aww.