Captanne July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 Jack didn't lift a finger to prevent him from going to jail, and Chiyoh both threw him off a train and shot him. Hannibal nowhere in sight. All these things happen to him for being in Hannibal's orbit. I'm sure there are other examples, I just can't think of them at the moment. Didn't Chilton willfully ignore his encephalitis? Fuller's version of Will Graham is too stupid to live. Just listing Will's damage over three season's borders on the absurd. 2 Link to comment
Crossbow July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 But Hannibal still engineered all those things. No, it wasn't Chilton, it was some Neurologist, whom Hannibal promptly killed and tried to frame Will for the murder. 2 Link to comment
Captanne July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 My point being that since he's been in Hannibal's orbit his life is one massive Warner Bros. cartoon of physical and mental abuse*. Since the show is named Hannibal, it stands to reason he may be a common root but several of those examples are offshoots. Shoot, Hannibal didn't even know where Chiyoh was until this last episode. *Please, God, may some enterprising youtube genius design a Warner Bros. cartoon of Will Graham's mishaps over the past 34 episodes. That would be hilarious. Link to comment
Crossbow July 14, 2015 Share July 14, 2015 He has. I am beginning to suspect Fuller secretly writes half the slash fan fiction. Of course, in the books, after being gutted by Hannibal and shooting Hobbs, he gave up and proceded to drink himself to death in the Florida keyes. This version of Will just keeps going back for more. 1 Link to comment
MisterGlass July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 Jack and Hannibal probably shrugged off Will being hurt as Will being Will. I mean, when is he NOT hurt in this series? That is too true. Will has been tormented by Hannibal in the past, but at the same time Hannibal has offered an understanding and acceptance that Will has such trouble finding with other people. With Hannibal in his head, Will needs to find ways to stay outside himself in the real world, but now he is less tethered to a conventional life than ever - no house, no dogs, no fishing tackle. Mortal danger may wake him up - this is the first time Hannibal has tried to eat him, and now he's in Mason's clutches. Link to comment
paramitch July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 So this episode had me running the full gamut of emotions. I have never seen anything on my television to match the utter marvelous gorgeous fucked-upness we saw in this episode (thank you, Bryan Fuller). I also think Hannibal and Will have reached a point that is no longer subtext and no longer text and no longer supertext or whatever would come next. The homoeroticism and longing between the two characters is so palpable that I not only yelled "Kiss him!" at both characters several times during the museum scene, but it also looked entirely possible that this would happen. There was such ease and affection between the two men. I would watch an entire show of Hannibal and Will flirting and talking about art and Italy. (Don't judge me.) Another thing I noticed was when Hannibal leaned in to kiss Bedelia. He felt a connection there - a rare personal connection - and she pulled away from him and delivered her coup de grace. He's rarely one-upped like that. And there's such intimacy when he cradles Will in his arms. I loved how deliberately sexy the kiss was between Hannibal and Bedelia, and that it was their goodbye kiss after all the coy are-they-or-aren't-they-ness of their exquisite scenes together. However, the one thing that bothers me and that I simply don't believe is that Hannibal would have ever planned to kill or consume Bedelia (I initially typed "eat Bedelia," but sat here laughing like a loon). It would have been rude, and unnecessary. It just doesn't feel true to me that Hannibal would do that. Yes, I think he'd rather regretfully kill Will (and would savor that), but I would've preferred his admission that he'd been messing with her mind with the acorns and snails, etc., and that he had no plans to "call upon her again." However, that entire final scene was wonderful. I find Bedelia fascinating, because she's so cold and beautiful and intelligent, and yet -- to this day -- to me, Gillian infuses her with this icy veneer of nightmare and total fear. She is still a human being and I believe finds what Hannibal does to be reprehensible. But she's fascinated and can't look away. I still think her time with Hannibal was as much about being caged as it was about freely given companionship and fascination. I think her time with him was both nightmare and dream. Dear God, yes. I liked the Kaleidoscope Of Artful Lesbian Sexing (except for my noted disapproval of its use only to further an obscure plotline), but the real passion was in the ripping off of Will's jacket post Chiyo bullet brushback. The savagery and snarling? Damn. If you have your eyes closed during that scene, let's just say it doesn't play as "removing a high-powered rifle bullet from a shoulder." I loved the sexy kaleidoscope of Artful Lesbian Sexing and found it oddly erotic. It was an interesting way to translate the sensations they were feeling into visual abstractions. This also happened throughout the episode in several of the moments when Will was dreaming or fantasizing as well, although in less dynamic and more disturbing ways. I also have to say that the scene in which Hannibal cradled Will after he was shot, hugging him and putting his hand to his neck (just as he did when he gutted Will in the kitchen) was amazing, both as a callback to that earlier scene and as yet another example of the way Mads infuses Hannibal with this beautiful understated tenderness. It's just crazy. And even crazier when you know that this was just the precursor to Hannibal cooking and eating Will for dinner (and yet even the broth-feeding was oddly tender). I've seen some complaints, but I love how far up its own butt this show has gone this season. That sex scene was like...what is even going on right now? The mind hallucination stuff was like what is even going on right now? And I love it. I feel the same way. I know the show is the most over the top thing ever, and could certainly be considered self-indulgent, but I find myself consistently delighted and grateful at the crazy beauty, intelligence and subtle humor of its universe. I don't get a lot of in-depth explorations of Dante, Botticelli, art, wine, or music in very much of my other TV entertainment (more's the pity). I'll revel in it right to the very last drop. He has. I am beginning to suspect Fuller secretly writes half the slash fan fiction. Of course, in the books, after being gutted by Hannibal and shooting Hobbs, he gave up and proceded to drink himself to death in the Florida keyes. This version of Will just keeps going back for more. That's not my take on post-Hannibal Will from the books at all. To me Will at the start of Red Dragon seemed like a person who had made a specific choice to recover his health and that it had been successful, hard-won, and precarious. 4 Link to comment
Finis Terre July 16, 2015 Share July 16, 2015 However, the one thing that bothers me and that I simply don't believe is that Hannibal would have ever planned to kill or consume Bedelia (I initially typed "eat Bedelia," but sat here laughing like a loon). It would have been rude, and unnecessary. It just doesn't feel true to me that Hannibal would do that. I find Bedelia fascinating, because she's so cold and beautiful and intelligent, and yet -- to this day -- to me, Gillian infuses her with this icy veneer of nightmare and total fear. She is still a human being and I believe finds what Hannibal does to be reprehensible. But she's fascinated and can't look away. I still think her time with Hannibal was as much about being caged as it was about freely given companionship and fascination. I think her time with him was both nightmare and dream. Hannibal would have had at least two good reasons to, ahem, eat Bedelia, but she turned out to be "not rude" and "not traitorous", not to mention the length of the marinating process. ;) However, I also think he isn't that brilliant at manipulating Bedelia and reading her agenda. I bet she will surprise us (and him) even more. 2 Link to comment
Crossbow July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 He says that whenever possible he prefers to eat the rude. That doesn't mean someone HAS to be rude or traitorous. He's not Dexter, after all. He doesn't have any rules, he just does as he likes. I wouldn't even be surprised if he served white wine with a 15 year cheddar if he thought it would work. 2 Link to comment
Finis Terre July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 He does seem to have some rules. And why would he be interested in getting rid of one of the two people he considers interesting? Link to comment
Crossbow July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 He's already tried to kill Will twice. Three times if you count the stabbing. 1 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo July 18, 2015 Author Share July 18, 2015 Demerits to Mason, Margot, and Alana for pronouncing Pazzi as Patsy. Extra points for the cast in Italy for pronouncing Pazzi correctly. Link to comment
Finis Terre July 18, 2015 Share July 18, 2015 He's already tried to kill Will twice. Three times if you count the stabbing. Only because Will betrayed him twice. 1 Link to comment
Anela July 18, 2015 Share July 18, 2015 Only because Will betrayed him twice. That's what you get for setting someone up for murder, screwing with him beforehand, and eating people. 1 Link to comment
Tippi Blevins July 19, 2015 Share July 19, 2015 That's what you get for setting someone up for murder, screwing with him beforehand, and eating people. Misread that as "screwing him beforehand" and wondered if I'd missed an episode. 4 Link to comment
Finis Terre July 19, 2015 Share July 19, 2015 That's what you get for setting someone up for murder, screwing with him beforehand, and eating people. Quid pro quo, indeed. I treat you with a knife, you treat me with a knife. :D 1 Link to comment
John Potts July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 Gotta love a series where one character says to another "You were planning on eating me" and the other agrees*. You know, just between friends! However, there was rather too much artsing around - the whole lesbian sex scene struck me as an art student's idea of porn who has no conception of why people make (or watch) porn. And was there any point to Chi-Yo being there except to be mysterious? ElectricBoogaloo I was cracking up during the first scene when Hannibal was stumbling around the streets of Florence with blood soaked clothes and no one noticed or called the police. I'm sorry - you mean there are other people living in Florence!? Dot Com Dolce. Italian for ... Tripping? It's "Sweet" - presumably because we're ending our Italian meal. * Other than in a sexual context, though I guess that could happen too. I wonder how Hannibal would prepare an ovary? Link to comment
Crossbow July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 And was there any point to Chi-Yo being there except to be mysterious? I had thought she was there to tell us about Hannibal's past, but if so she didn't do a very good job of it. Link to comment
Captanne July 30, 2015 Share July 30, 2015 Worst bullshit episode of the whole series. Nearly put me off my feed. (Pun intended.) 1 Link to comment
Nanrad August 12, 2015 Share August 12, 2015 Well that was some of the trippiest lesbian sex I have ever seen. Followed by a: "hey babe do you mind harvesting some of my brothers sperm?" For a second there I was wondering if Hannibal was going to win in this version of the story. Trippy. Gillian Anderson is wonderful as Bedelia and she might actually be my favorite part of the show. I adored her scene with Hannibal when they outright talked about the end and how she knew full well he planned on eating her: "You make may a meal of me yet Hannibal...but not today." And her scenes with Jack and the Italian police officer when she was drugged up was fantastic. Although I enjoy certain aspects of this show, it's been a bit inconsistent and drawn out at certain parts for me. Honestly, I'm watching for Gillian Anderson's brilliance. I was cackling at the drug scene. Ms. Anderson, never change. Link to comment
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