Marty

[amensisterfriend]

Marty: a sad sack, negative downer or one of the more endearing and relatable male characters on a show that so often depicted guys as mild to moderate dopes and jerks?! The most potentially compatible match for Rory or just a boring one? Should Rory have picked Marty over Logan? Do you guys pretend that his S7 reappearance never happened, or did parts of those scenes work for you? What might Marty be doing for a living now, and do you think he's become any more confident and/or optimistic since we first met him? And why didn't they give this poor guy a last name?! 

 

This is the place to discuss all that and more :) 

[dustylil]

I vote for sad sack! And it has nothing to do with his romantic dreams and fantasies. There he was with this wonderful opportunity  to attend an Ivy League university. Not because it was simply a family expectation like young Huntzberger. But due to his own interest, ambition and hard work. Yet once there,  he chooses to make his non-scholastic life as depressing as possible.

 

Unlike many college students, he has a marketable skill - bartending - that would  make getting part-time  and summer jobs considerably easier for him than most. Bars, hotels, inns, catered dinner parties, campus events in and around New Haven and Hartford all seem likely sources of employment. As well, the  mother of one of his friends is well connected in the Connecticut hospitality industry (and is soon to open her own inn), yet he makes no effort to network with her regarding employment.  So what does he do - despite his dislike for and unease with the children of the elites, he elects to tend bar  for the likes of the Life and Death Brigade set and  deal with their real or perceived condescension.

Edited June 17, 2015 by dustylil

[takalotti]

ASF, you're baiting me! And here I go, taking it...

So basically my answer is, "It depends on which season Marty we're talking about."

S4 Marty was actually a decently self confident guy who had a lot of potential. Yeah, he had a self deprecating sense of humor (comment about getting pants at prom), but that doesn't automatically mean sad sack to me (but I'm biased since that's my style of humor too). He wasn't completely mortified at being found naked by Rory. He actually had made more friends than Rory did by the time she went to the dining hall in bunny slippers. And he handled himself pretty well around the other Gilmores for having just been outed as Naked Guy. So to me, not at all a sad sack or negative downer but rather very endearing and relatable.

And then we get S5 Marty. I still don't think I'd go so far as to call him a sad sack or negative downer, but he was definitely a pathetic doormat and that's not endearing at all. As much as my love for S4 Marty has stuck with me, I still want to strangle S5 Marty and shout, "Stop being a wuss and just tell her you like her! You don't get to pout that she's not into you if you won't even open your mouth to give yourself a chance!" The only time I liked S5 Marty was when he told Rory she was annoying and wouldn't get in the cab with her. But then he went right back to being a pathetic doormat when she pestered him into a non-date. Grrr!

And then, oh god, S7 Marty. Also known as PodMarty. I try to make sense of this. I have several partial one shots that deal with S7 Marty as a way to try to find an explanation for him. There's a reason I haven't posted any of those. I still don't even think sad sack fits here. He was just delusional and bitter and I don't even know. Definitely not endearing or relatable! And of course he's still not fucking over Rory. Because heaven forbid anyone who ever liked Rory actually get over her.

Should Rory have picked Marty over Logan? In my head, it's a moot question because Rory should have gotten together with Marty in S4, before Logan and Dean2.0 were even in the picture. (But if I have to actually vote between S5 Marty and Logan ... Well, all I'll say is you just can't vote for S5 Marty.)

And since they should have been together since S4, that means S7 Marty never comes into existence.

So yes, in my world Marty is the most compatible with Rory, because my world only contains S4 Marty.

I imagine him working on the next great American novel.

Well, following canon, I'd say that his trajectory indicates his confidence and optimism keep plummeting. But eventually he hits rock bottom and gets himself back together.

Following my version where he and Rory get together in S4, he starts with a reasonable baseline of confidence and optimism and has a slowly rising trajectory from there.

Unlike many college students, he has a marketable skill - bartending - that would  make getting part-time  and summer jobs considerably easier for him than most. Bars, hotels, inns, catered dinner parties, campus events in and around New Haven and Hartford all seem likely sources of employment. As well, the  mother of one of his friends is well connected in the Connecticut hospitality industry (and is soon to open her own inn), yet he makes no effort to network with her regarding employment.

This is a really interesting point. I've read fanfic where Marty works with Luke, and that always made sense to me just because I always thought they'd get along. But I never thought about Marty working with Lorelai. If I made sure to give you a proper shout out, would you mind if I incorporated this into my fanfic?

Edited June 17, 2015 by takalotti

[dustylil]

Aw shucks, takalotti. Have at it!

[amensisterfriend]

See, this is why I adore these forums---despite rewatching and discussing this show roughly 50 gazillion times already, there are always insights and perspectives that never occur to me until you GG geniuses weigh in!  

 

I'd never thought of Marty choosing to work for Logan et al. as needlessly self-sabotaging, but dusty totally opened my eyes to that possibility. (The three cups of coffee I've had have helped open my eyes this morning in a more literal sense, but you guys know what I mean!) And until reading takalotti's post, I can honestly say that I never really thought of Marty's S5 characterization as a departure from how he was depicted in S4, but I have a feeling that now it will be on that list of things I can't NOT see :) And it makes a lot of sense considering that for me the vast majority of GG's minor characters became notably more shrill, over-the-top and just generally less pleasant to hang out with in S5.  

 

What do we know about Marty's family other than that it seemed to be amusingly dysfunctional?! If the elder Gilmores were appalled by Dean's middle class but seemingly idyllic Leave it to Beaver-ish upbringing, I shudder to think of how they might have reacted to Marty. And by "shudder," I actually kind of mean that I need you guys to explore this scenario in a fanfic, okay?! ;) (takalotti, I would love so much to read any and all fanfic that you're willing to share!) Marty having to deal with those facets of Rory's world would have offered a very organic conflict for them to deal with, which nicely addresses the criticism that Marty and Rory would have been too dully compatible and harmonious a duo to make for interesting fiction despite being two characters you could most likely see getting together in 'real life.' 

 

I was really surprised to see just how few S4-S5 episodes Marty appeared in. (Anyone want to take a guess at how many times he popped up without looking it up?!) I wonder whether they initially planned to make him a bigger part of the show and Rory's life...? Was he there to pick up the pieces in S5 if Logan turned out to be a one night stand rather than the latest guy to decide he simply must have a committed relationship with Rory?! 

[blueray]

I liked Marty and wish that he got to at least go on a date with Rory. They then can decide to just be friends. I felt really bad for him, in the episode where Rory (and him) get invited to go with Logan's friends. I feel like Rory should have said sorry we have plans, she wasn't dating Logan at that point.

 

As for him in season 7, I honestly forgot about that. But I only saw it once (when it airs) and now I generally pretend it doesn't exist.

[dustylil]

now I generally pretend it doesn't exist

 

Like Marty did with Rory!

[Taryn74]

Unlike many college students, he has a marketable skill - bartending - that would  make getting part-time  and summer jobs considerably easier for him than most. Bars, hotels, inns, catered dinner parties, campus events in and around New Haven and Hartford all seem likely sources of employment. 

 

...despite his dislike for and unease with the children of the elites, he elects to tend bar  for the likes of the Life and Death Brigade set and  deal with their real or perceived condescension.

 

My daughter (who is sitting here reading over my shoulder, heh) brought up a good point though -- would he have been able to legally work in any of those places, being under 21?  Maybe he bartended for Logan and his ilk "under the table"?

 

(I don't know if the law is the same in all states, but I know here you can't serve or sell alcohol until legal drinking age.)

[Katherine]

I always wondered what the writers' intentions were with the character of Marty. Was the plan always for him to have an unrequited crush on Rory? Or was he just supposed to be a college friend for her? Was there any potential for him becoming a serious love interest--maybe even endgame potential, depending on fan response?

[takalotti]

My daughter (who is sitting here reading over my shoulder, heh) brought up a good point though -- would he have been able to legally work in any of those places, being under 21?  Maybe he bartended for Logan and his ilk "under the table"?

 

(I don't know if the law is the same in all states, but I know here you can't serve or sell alcohol until legal drinking age.)

Good question! I hadn't thought about it before. According to a website I googled, the states range from 18-21 for the minimum age. Connecticut's minimum is 18. However, that's just now. It's possible that wasn't the case in 2004, but who knows.

For reference: http://www.usabartendingschool.com/bartending_age.php

[dustylil]

That is a good point about Marty and his employment, Taryn. And daughter of Taryn! To be sure, unless I am misremembering, we did not know his age. But if it the legal age at the time was 18 for serving liquor in Connecticut,  he appears to have been covered.

 

However,  I  wonder if he was indeed working  illegally or under the table, why he would do so publicly in the presence of other Yalies. An unhappy customer with an unsatisfactory martini (Colin or Finn come to mind) could have resulted in an anonymous telephone call and a  lot of problems, if not legal issues, for him. Even more of a reason to avoid undergraduate social functions.

[Nostariel]

Good question! I hadn't thought about it before. According to a website I googled, the states range from 18-21 for the minimum age. Connecticut's minimum is 18. However, that's just now. It's possible that wasn't the case in 2004, but who knows.

For reference: http://www.usabartendingschool.com/bartending_age.php

My best friend is from Connecticut and was tending bar way back in 1999 when she was an 18 year old freshman in college.

[amensisterfriend]

I always wondered what the writers' intentions were with the character of Marty. Was the plan always for him to have an unrequited crush on Rory? Or was he just supposed to be a college friend for her? Was there any potential for him becoming a serious love interest--maybe even endgame potential, depending on fan response?

 

Exactly! I asked pretty much the same thing above:

 

I was really surprised to see just how few S4-S5 episodes Marty appeared in. (Anyone want to take a guess at how many times he popped up without looking it up?!) I wonder whether they initially planned to make him a bigger part of the show and Rory's life...? Was he there to pick up the pieces in S5 if Logan turned out to be a one night stand rather than the latest guy to decide he simply must have a committed relationship with Rory?!

 

I'd love to hear people's speculations. 

 

I'd also still love to read takalotti's fanfic :) 

[takalotti]

I'd love to hear people's speculations.

 

I'd also still love to read takalotti's fanfic :)

Legend has it that ASP met WW when he was her waiter somewhere. She really liked him and just stuck him into the story as he was available.

Based on that, I think he was initially brought on just as another student who could be a friend. I think around TKBNO, there might have been a "Let's see where this goes" on whether or not they'd ever date. But then actor availability cut that short.

Then he was available again in S5. Since word on the street is that MC was only signed on short term, I'm guessing the writers went, "Love triangle!" without a set plan for which boy would end up with Rory until later. (Again, maybe actor availability and contract stuff played a role in how it went down).

I don't know how much audience reaction drove the decision for Logan since they write and film episodes decently far in advance of airing, so I don't know now much feedback they could really get. So I'm guessing it had more to do with who the writers thought had more chemistry with Rory, or who had more potential for fun writing down the road.

Aw, that's nice. It's considered poor form to promote your own fanfic, and you don't have messaging enabled, so all I'll say is that I'm also Takalotti on fanfic.net ;)

[Katherine]

Exactly! I asked pretty much the same thing above:

 

Sorry! I did read your post - mine was meant in agreement with yours :)

 

As for how many times Marty pops up...I would guess maybe a dozen?

[amensisterfriend]

Marty popped up in only three episodes in S4---three! For some reason I'd have thought he was in at least five or so.

 

And then he was only in four S5 episodes.

 

This is all according to Gilmore Girls wikia, which also included this amusing generalization of fan reaction to him: 

 

 

 

What Fans Love about Him

 

He's the naked guy.
He's shy.
He loved Rory and brought her food (the fastest way to a Gilmore Girl heart).
He understands Rory and they have obvious chemistry.

 

What Fans Hate about Him
He was uninteresting in general.
He isn't Jess.

If it weren't for him, Rory wouldn't have met the Life and Death Brigade (and most of all, Logan).

(The above re. general fan reaction to Marty should all be quoted, as it's wikia's words rather than mine, but for some reason this site isn't allowing me to!)

Edited June 18, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Taryn74]

He isn't Jess.

 

 

>.<

[takalotti]

Haha, yeah, I read that wikia portion before. The thing is, though, Marty wasn't responsible for Rory meeting Logan and the LDB.

Yes, he introduced her to Logan, but if he hadn't she still would have met Logan at the paper. And she still would have interviewed music download guy and bumped into gorilla girl. So Rory meeting Logan wasn't Marty's fault ;)

One thing I sometimes wonder, though, is if Rory dating Logan WAS Marty's fault. Hear me out.

When does Rory actually become interested in Logan?

She doesn't like him at first and chews him out. Then at the paper his old timey reporter bit make her chuckle (inexplicably IMO). But I wouldn't say she was romantically interested in him, even at the LDB event or the meat market. Then Logan and friends do their skit thing in class and she chews Logan out before losing Anna.

So up to this point, Rory seems to either be cool hanging out with him (but no romantic hang ups) or really pissed at him.

It seems like it's not until Marty tells her to stop being so annoyingly naive, Logan likes her, that Rory seems to be interested in Logan. That's when she's all, "Oh, I can help him write an article. I mean, if someone has to, I guess I'll take one for the team."

I think Rory has a history of liking boys who like her first. While Logan was the closest she got to having to put herself out there first (rather than having the guy make the first move), someone still put it in her head that he liked her before she did anything about it.

So, if Marty had kept his mouth shut, would Rory ever have started being interested in Logan? Or would he have remained a butt-faced miscreant in her eyes? And then would Marty have had a chance?

[Taryn74]

Hmm, interesting perspective!!

[dustylil]

Given the interest that Rory had in journalism and the family friendship with the Huntzbergers, I think Emily and Richard might have tried to push Rory and Logan together. As in their eyes the Gilmores and the Huntzbergers were social equals. (In what universe I continue to ask)

[txhorns79]

So, if Marty had kept his mouth shut, would Rory ever have started being interested in Logan? Or would he have remained a butt-faced miscreant in her eyes? And then would Marty have had a chance?

 

I don't think Marty would have had a chance with her.  I never got the impression Rory had any interest in him like that, or that they would have been compatible as a couple. 

[amensisterfriend]

txhorns, I'd love to hear why you don't think Rory and Marty have been compatible as a couple! I ask only because, despite my own relative meh-ness on Marty, I felt Rory definitely had more in common with Marty than with Dean, Jess or Logan. (Granted, commonality and compatibility are not necessarily the same thing!)

 

I do think Rory was kind of relaxed and low key around Marty compared to how she was around either Jess or Logan, which could be interpreted as either that she felt naturally comfortable and 'herself' with him OR that he didn't excite and animate her like the guys she really likes tend to do. 

 

...and now for some reason you've got me thinking of what a Marty pairing with Paris would have been like. (And whether Rory would have been jealous without even realizing it since she was usually the 'first choice': for Tristan, for valedictorian, for the YDN editorship, etc.) I ask about Marty and Paris primarily because I amuse myself by thinking of what pretty much everyone would have been like with Paris...and usually I end up pitying the male in question :) 

[takalotti]

There are a couple Marty/Paris fanfics out there. There were a few on BWR, I think, not that that's helpful anymore.

Of the three on fanfic.net, one has horrid grammar that makes it too difficult to read. The other two were decent.

[dustylil]

I tend to agree about the mehness of Marty. I do however think it would have been good if Rory had established and maintained a platonic relationship with him - based on similar interests  and a general commonality in background. Fellows should not just be past,  current,  or future romantic partners which pretty much seemed to be the case for Rory. Particularly so given the complicated relationships she had with the males in her own family. 

I also think Paris would have made mincemeat out of Marty (but then I have long believed that Paris and Jess would have made the most interesting couple of the younger set in the series - so am clearly biased in my views of romantic pairings).

[amensisterfriend]

(but then I have long believed that Paris and Jess would have made the most interesting couple of the younger set in the series - so am clearly biased in my views of romantic pairings).

 

Mine too...whenever we talk about our dream GG 'ships, Paris/Jess is at the top of my list. It's often the only item on that list! 

 

For those of us relatively meh on Marty---do you attribute it to the writing? The fact that he wasn't around often enough for us to get attached to him or even much of a sense of who he is? The acting? The general chemistry with Rory/Alexis Bleldel? 

 

On paper, Marty is among the very few GG males who I'd actually like and connect with in real life, and in theory I'd have really loved to see Rory with a Marty-ish type of person, so I'm always surprised all over again that I don't love the guy.  Maybe it's because he did give off a negative kind of energy...and, let's face it, there were enough dour, negative GG males on the canvas as it was :) Of course, what I'm interpreting as sad sack negativity may well have been endearing shyness...clearly I need to rewatch the relatively few S4-S5 episodes in which he makes an appearance! 

Edited June 18, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[txhorns79]

txhorns, I'd love to hear why you don't think Rory and Marty have been compatible as a couple! I ask only because, despite my own relative meh-ness on Marty, I felt Rory definitely had more in common with Marty than with Dean, Jess or Logan. (Granted, commonality and compatibility are not necessarily the same thing!)

 

I think I just found Marty kind of boring.  He seemed perfectly nice, and Rory seemed to enjoy his company, but I never felt like there was anything there besides friendship. 

[takalotti]

I tend to agree about the mehness of Marty. I do however think it would have been good if Rory had established and maintained a platonic relationship with him - based on similar interests  and a general commonality in background. Fellows should not just be past,  current,  or future romantic partners which pretty much seemed to be the case for Rory. Particularly so given the complicated relationships she had with the males in her own family. 

I have a very similar opinion about them being platonic friends. From another thread...

In my ideal fantasy version of GG coupling, I have a weird, conflicting preference.

I either want Rory and Marty to be a couple (full blown OTP deal), or I want them to have NO interest in each other and be truly platonic. I'm just so tired of yet another boy falling for Rory and pining for her endlessly.

...

But if it couldn't be [OTP coupledom] either because of actor availability or that wouldn't be exciting enough for tv, then I just wanted Rory to have a truly platonic male friend, not just a male acquaintance like Brian or Zack. This show was all about different relationship dynamics, so why not include that one? I'd even accept having it play a part in relationship drama with Rory and a boyfriend (Logan or otherwise).

Here's something weird about my Marty fixation.

As I've established, S4 Marty is my favorite, S5 is an aggravating doormat, and S7 is an alien. But I didn't think about Marty as a good partner for Rory until S5. The moment I fell for Marty (on Rory's behalf) was when she fell asleep on his bed.

I know that to some that is just a perfect example of how much Rory does NOT see him that way. But to me it's a perfect example of how comfortable she is with him and how much she trusts him.

I think it's because up to that point in S5, Marty wasn't THAT bad. He helped with Asher's wake (just the mild beginnings of doormattery with the "Anything for you" comment) and kinda sorta tried to find out what Rory's deal was, but he wasn't yet pouty about Rory not being able to read his mind. So at this point I could look back at S4 Marty to validate falling for him.

Kind of like how style-wise the 80s didn't end right at 1989; they bled into the 90s a bit until you're a little ways in and realize styles have changed.

It's only once the whole series was over that I was able to see the difference between the S4 and S5 Martys and retroactively decide he was best for her in S4.

[dustylil]

I thought a major difficulty with Marty was that we knew so little about him except in relation to his fellow Yalies. Problematic relationships between parents and children were endemic to the show.  Yet the whole issue of his newly discovered parentage was covered in just  a couple of lines of dialogue. Frankly, I would have found it a good deal more interesting to learn how he now felt about  and interacted with his mother and father as a young adult rather than listen to Logan endlessly whine about the hardships of the over-privileged.

[Taryn74]

For those of us relatively meh on Marty---do you attribute it to the writing? The fact that he wasn't around often enough for us to get attached to him or even much of a sense of who he is? The acting? The general chemistry with Rory/Alexis Bleldel?

 

I think it was just that he wasn't around enough for us to get to know him.  To me it was clear even from the beginning that his character was never going to be an important part of the show.  His role was kind of like that of Madeline and Louise -- he popped up enough that we remembered he existed, and he had some funny lines and was a part of some decent B-plots, but that was the extent of it.  So, because he had such a chill, laid-back attitude, since his character never went anywhere it made him as a whole rather forgettable.

[Aloeonatable]

I think Marty was introduced to show that Rory wasn't completely without any friends at Yale; just a filler until Rory found a new love interest. I wish he had been more than that. 

[readster]

I think it was just that he wasn't around enough for us to get to know him.  To me it was clear even from the beginning that his character was never going to be an important part of the show.  His role was kind of like that of Madeline and Louise -- he popped up enough that we remembered he existed, and he had some funny lines and was a part of some decent B-plots, but that was the extent of it.  So, because he had such a chill, laid-back attitude, since his character never went anywhere it made him as a whole rather forgettable.

It also didn't help that the actor was also busy doing a show on broadway too and the only reason he showed up in season 7 was because he was available for a while between his next show. I can't fault that on the actor but I can on the writers who go: "Oh look, so and so is free, let's use him, because we love him not because the story will make sense." 

Edited June 20, 2015 by readster

[amensisterfriend]

So one advantage to knowing relatively little about Marty is that we can have fun fanwanking :) 

 

What do you guys think he ended up doing for a career? What kind of stuff do you think he was most passionate about, academically and otherwise? What do you think his relationship with his uncle/father ended up being like? And can we all just happily pretend that his appearances in S7 never took place?! :) 

[Guest]

What do you guys think he ended up doing for a career? Did we ever find out his major?  I can't remember it if we did. Since I can't remember, I think he's doing voiceovers for Eeyore in all Winnie the Pooh material.

 

What kind of stuff do you think he was most passionate about, academically and otherwise? He seemed to like to party.  ;)  

 

What do you think his relationship with his uncle/father ended up being like? Dysfunctional. ;)

 

And can we all just happily pretend that his appearances in S7 never took place?! :) ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

[BananaRama]

Oh Marty, Marty, Marty. I wince when I think of him because who hasn't been in love with the perfect person who is also nice and likes you but doesn't like like you in that way? I am guessing that future Marty never entirely gets over Rory and still compares every girl that he loves to her. And though he eventually does marry and have a couple of daughters (I can't imagine Marty having sons!) he still thinks of Rory. I think he becomes a novelist - who is very talented but never writes a great or profitable novel so is teaching English at Chilton. He meets Max Medina and they strike up a friendship and commiserate about their feelings about the Gilmore Girls. He doesn't have a bad life, just maybe a little unfulfilled.

If Rory had just slept with him, Marty's life would have turned out differently. It would have been beneficial for both of them. Marty would have been her transitional man. Marty would have slept with his "perfect" woman and realized that she is just a regular person and moved on, and Rory would have gotten another notch on her bedpost before jumping into bed with sexpert, Logan.

[takalotti]

takalotti, I have a ton of Marty-related stuff I'd love to chat with you about! Can I convince you to visit his thread?! 

I don't knoo-oow. It might take a LOT of convincing ;)

What do you guys think he ended up doing for a career?

Since I imagine him with Rory, and since she starts off her career following a campaign trail, I imagine him having something portable. Like maybe a small writing job (writing one of the recurring pieces in Readers Digest for example) while working on his novel. Which maybe Jess' place ends up publishing.

What kind of stuff do you think he was most passionate about, academically and otherwise?

For me, Marty is a low-key personality (which doesn't equal "boring" to me, but I understand how it does for others) so I have a hard time imagining him being passionate. But in my imaginary back story for him, Marty comes from a blue collar family where 2 year associates degrees and practical job skills are valued over a 4 year liberal arts degree and writing, which would be considered a waste of time and money. So unlike some students who go to college because that's just what you do next after HS, Marty had to really "fight" to go to Yale. He had to work hard in HS to get into Yale, and he had to find the scholarships and loans and jobs to pay for Yale, and he had to do this under a constant barrage of negativity (at least from his "dad"). I guess that would take a low key kind of passion that would match Marty's personality.

As a side note, I once read a fanfic where Marty got into acting. I could see that. Even if you see Marty as a sad sack, there would be some appeal in pretending to be someone with a more exciting life.

What do you think his relationship with his uncle/father ended up being like?

Well, Marty describes his "dad" as sighing with relief at the reveal, and later that they got along better now. Perhaps he was just joking, but I imagine his "dad" was disappointed in Marty for being so different, so when he found out there was a reason, he no longer had expectations for Marty and didn't care about those differences since they weren't his fault. What I actually think about more is what did all the parents do afterward? Did his parents stay married? Did his mom and Uncle Jerry get together? Or is Uncle Jerry mad at the mom for keeping the paternity a secret? For that matter, WAS it a secret from Jerry (where he just suspected due to timing) or did she tell him a long time ago and went along with it as a secret?

And can we all just happily pretend that his appearances in S7 never took place?! :)

Ugh, I wish. Why did it have to be like that? There were so many other ways he could have been incorporated without being secretly hung up on Rory. On the show, he seemed kind of fake with Lucy. I could have accepted that being "rejected" by Rory messed him up a bit, made him think a girl wouldn't like him as is, so he started putting on an act to be someone that would be liked. So he just lets himself get absorbed by Lucy, being whatever kind of Boyfriend she wants him to be. But Rory can tell he's being fake, calls him out on it, he gets defensive and declares that he's happy, but then realizes it's all an act and that this isn't any way to be in a relationship. All of which can be achieved without still pining for Rory.

Oh, I should have started with "Hi! I'm Takalotti, and I'm a Marty addict." ("Hi, Takalotti!")

[amensisterfriend]

For me, Marty is a low-key personality (which doesn't equal "boring" to me, but I understand how it does for others) so I have a hard time imagining him being passionate. But in my imaginary back story for him, Marty comes from a blue collar family where 2 year associates degrees and practical job skills are valued over a 4 year liberal arts degree and writing, which would be considered a waste of time and money. So unlike some students who go to college because that's just what you do next after HS, Marty had to really "fight" to go to Yale. He had to work hard in HS to get into Yale, and he had to find the scholarships and loans and jobs to pay for Yale, and he had to do this under a constant barrage of negativity (at least from his "dad")

 

I love your answers! 

 

For me the above scenario would indicate real drive and determination. And I guess this is my own unfair assumption about Marty, but I actually see him as potentially super interested in certain subjects, books, ideas etc. I also see him as emotional and sensitive, albeit hidden beneath a sort of protective even keel detachment and wry sort of sarcasm. That's the fun thing about quieter, more introverted characters---we all get to imagine what does and doesn't actually lurk underneath that exterior :) 

 

If Marty and Rory had been a couple, I wonder what their inevitable drama/conflict would have revolved around? Marty worrying he's not "good enough" for Rory? Rory still having feelings for Jess or Logan? Rory learning to be content in a healthy relationship with a generally good guy (it can be harder than it sounds---fiction often teaches us that such relationships are dull and involve 'settling'!) rather than a more drama filled roller coaster with an edgier and more 'exciting' bad boy? Rory possibly being the more experienced one in the relationship and feeling awkward about it? Both of them being a little shy, introverted, hesitant, unsure of the other one's feelings,  etc.? Marty dealing with 'turning his back' on his roots and alienating his family by becoming the academic they didn't want him to be?  Richard and Emily's amusing amount of horror upon learning about Marty's family background and situation?! 

 

It's a shame that on TV 'opposites attract' who constantly bicker, have nothing in common etc. is such a common trope, often leading to the couples I'd actually find really connected and compatible in a relatable, root-worthy way not getting together anywhere other than in fanfic :) 

 

ITA that I could see Marty as a teacher, by the way. I could see Rory as one as well. 

[Guest]

I know that the Season 7 Marty didn't exist*** but indulge me. Let's theoretically say those episodes actually happened. One reason I hated them was because Marty truly was interested in Lucy (was it Lucy?).  He went to her play multiple times to get her attention. It wasn't like he was pining for Rory until someone else cornered him into a relationship.  But he was willing to throw that all away to have a chance with his unrequited love. Ugh.

 

***I like this alternate universe.

[amensisterfriend]

So someone really, truly had romantic feelings for the inexpressibly annoying Lucy? That's more disbelief than I can suspend ;) And now I'm having horrific flashbacks to that "Boyfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend!" nonsense. 

 

Honestly, I've seen that kind of character assassination before, though it's not usually quite as sloppy and embarrassing as the one poor Marty suffered in S7! It's as if the writers are subconsciously thinking 'Okay, so we have to justify our heroine not picking the nicer guy whom she'd likely have had a healthier relationship with...so how about we suddenly turn him into a guy who actually ISN'T nice (or sane) and with whom she wouldn't have had a healthy relationship after all?" People could argue that they did the same thing to Dean to justify Rory going for Jess (I never thought Dean was a great guy to begin with, but I know many of the fans and writers did!) 

 

***I like this alternate universe.

 

We should start a thread in which we each get to create our ideal GG alt-universe! I have a feeling that most of us would make several changes to what we actually got on screen :)  

[Gilmorefan]

I loved Marty! Count me in on wishing his season seven appearance never happened. He should have come back more grownup, over Rory, and ready to be just her friend again.

I think an alternate universe thread would be great fun, asf, I sort of speculated on that in the UO thread.

[Emilie01]

There's a Marty thread - yay! I definitely think they had Marty in mind as a love interest in the beginning but then either Wayne Wilcox's schedule or Logan being better received made them move away from that. It's a bummer though, season 4 Marty is someone I could actually see Rory with. In my head their relationship went exactly as Lula Bo wrote it in her FF "Everything Old is New Again". It's such a great read if you haven't checked it out, it's one of my favorites!

[takalotti]

Yay! More Marty lovers! Glad to have you, Emilie01.

Yeah, EOiNA was the first fanfic with a R/M pairing I ever read (recommended by lulu, I believe). That's the one I was referring to when I mentioned Marty being into acting, but couldn't remember the name, so thank you!

[DisneyBoy]

I didn't think much of Marty when he was first introduced, and it didn't help matters that he started to fall for Rory over time and seem to be intimidated by her...but in the end I really liked the character and when he was brought back for season 7 I think that was the first time I tuned in to the show that year. Amy leaving was a deal-breaker for me and the plots from season 6 were so difficult to sit through that I really had to turn away from the show just to keep myself from hating it. Self-preservation!

You can imagine how happy I was to discover Marty was now completely obsessed with Rory in a way that made no sense and felt completely manufactured to undermine whatever appeal he'd had in the first place.

That said, I still wonder what might have been if Amy had permitted Rory to wake up about what an idiot Logan was and date a much more friendly kind-hearted guy like Marty. I understand that Rory was getting caught up in herself as the seasons wore on so this wasn't likely to happen, but I think it would have been really refreshing if, after reconciling with her mother, Rory eventually saw the worth in Marty and gave him a shot and gradually settled back down to earth with a guy who had a lot more to offer than attitude and cash.

I don't love Marty and I don't think he had to be her husband or anything, but he was certainly the kind of guy Rory probably would have benefited from being with at the time. Having HIM think that though was gross. Again, I'm not sure if he was pitching himself to Rory in season 7 because I blocked so much of those episodes out but I do remember that it was gross and weird and made me not want to watch the show anymore.

Like Dean before him, Marty was undermined by his devotion to Rory.

Edited November 22, 2015 by DisneyBoy

[amensisterfriend]

Interesting comments from Wayne Wilcox on Marty! 

 

http://www.gilmorenews.com/2016/02/05/should-marty-return-to-gilmore-girls/comment-page-1/

And more Marty-related musings... 

 

http://www.bustle.com/articles/139829-the-one-gilmore-girls-revival-series-theory-about-rorys-love-life-you-probably-havent-considered

[takalotti]

Ahhhhhhh!!!

I have lots of thoughts but they're coming in too fast to be coherent, so for now, just...

Ahhhhhhh!!!

[amensisterfriend]

I hope to hear more of your thoughts soon, Takalotti :) 

[Breezy]

I personally don't care for Marty. He was ok and a sweet guy but kind of boring (not excessively, but he wasn't that interesting) and depressing in season 4. But he has this chip on his shoulder and he thinks that he is morally superior to Logan and his friends but he proves otherwise in season 7. And maybe Logan should not have said anything at that dinner with Lucy and Marty but I think it was an exceptionally uncomfortable situation for him to be in. Marty should have been truthful with Lucy, but since he wasn't, Rory should have been truthful before Logan was even in that situation. And Logan was right- she asked him a direct question, so at that point he wasn't going to hold up the charade any longer.

[takalotti]

I hope to hear more of your thoughts soon, Takalotti :)

Well, this is by no means soon, but here goes :) Fair warning: my thought process gets rather cyclic.

First, there's just the standard manic excitement a Marty fan like me would have after hearing even the teeniest, tiniest, though highly unlikely, possibility that Marty could be in the revival. Hence all the "Ahhhhh!"ing of my other post. I mean, it's one thing to be thinking to yourself, "They're bringing back so many people. I wonder if Marty will be one of them." It's something else altogether to hear Wayne go on record that he'd be in. Not that it's surprising to hear that - he's not an A-lister who gets to turn down gigs all the time so obviously he'd take an opportunity. But he could just as easily have sat at home on his own thinking, "I'd like to be part of it." Doing an interview, talking people into being TeamMarty? It doesn't just feel like an actor hoping he gets A job. More like he wants THIS job because he's invested in the future of the character, not the paycheck.

Next, I think it's totally adorable that Wayne created a backstory for Marty and made a mixtape - A MIXTAPE!!! - of music he'd like. Seriously, my Marty/Wayne crush continues to grow. I'm not an audiophile by any means, but I wish I knew what was on that tape.

But then the doubts creep in. If they brought Marty back, could the show really make him end game for Rory? Especially after how things ended in S7? I get the point made in the article how his period of douchebaggery doesn't negate who he was up until then (and I came up with a couple acceptable reasons for it long ago), but can he really make a comeback after that? So if he isn't end game, why is he there? Another round of pining for Rory and getting rejected? NO THANK YOU!!!

Then I'm back to my original stance on Marty: If they can't be a couple, can they please be a 100% platonic pair of friends? I just don't see how that's possible with the history on the show, though. Maybe he's married, they reconnect, and as a way to cleanse him of his S7 sins he immediately introduces Rory to his wife with (a less clunky version of), "Honey, this is Rory. I had a crush on her back in college and it took me an oddly long time to get over the fact that she didn't feel the same way, but I did and I'm glad I did or else I never would have met you. Is it cool with you if I keep in touch with her again?"

But in the end, I'm still the Marty lover who brought her S4 GG DVDs to a Broadway play, and waited by the stage door afterwards, and mustered up the courage to call out "Wayne!" as he was about to leave, and excitedly told him "I rooted for Marty the whole time" as I asked for his autograph. So that's what I'll continue to do: Root for Marty and squee every time I hear something that keeps my hopes alive.

Edited March 16, 2016 by takalotti

[takalotti]

Disclaimer: I'm a completely irrational Marty fan. I know this. Now you know this. Proceed to follow me down the rabbit hole at your own risk (of annoyance).

So, I had come to terms with the fact that we wouldn't be seeing Marty in the revival. I don't read the spoiler thread, but I had been reading the non-spoiler one, and would see how this or that actor was being signed on. As far as I know, Wayne Wilcox was never mentioned. (For reference, I just sought out the EW list of 37 returning characters and confirmed he isn't on it).

Then I saw the 7 YouTube clips Netflix put out. The ones that are Sean Gunn narrating a recap of each season in 60 seconds. See that dark spot in the grass over there? That's the rabbit hole...

In the videos for S4, S5, and S7 (all the seasons Marty appeared), Marty gets a mention and a short clip. Hmm, okay. Makes sense. He was in those episodes.

Buuut then I considered the fact that Marty wasn't that significant of a character. Not much more so than Madeline and Louise, or Anna, who weren't mentioned or shown at all in the recaps. Or Tristan, who was shown for a second but not mentioned by name. Or Doyle (who does get mentioned but really not that much in comparison with how much more of a role he was than Marty and the fact that he's in the revival), or Colin and Finn (who  are going to be in the revival and so SHOULD be mentioned in the recaps by name).

So why did the recaps bother covering Marty more than other equally or more worthy characters? Lucy's not coming back, so it's not like they really needed to bring up his back story for that angle. He didn't have any significant role in Rory's love story line the way Jason did for the Lorelai/Luke story line. SO WHY WAS MARTY IN THE RECAPS SO MUCH?!?!?!?! They seriously could have skipped him like they completely skipped other characters, and no one but me would have noticed.

This made me start wondering if maybe he WILL be in the revival. 

But then why hasn't he been announced as being in the revival? Because if he's in the revival, and they're keeping it a secret, then ... MAYBE HE'S RORY'S ENDGAME!!!

<:o 
<:o 
<:o 

Okay, okay, back to reality. We have no idea what powers were behind the 7 videos, so we have no idea how much of a correlation there is between a character's presence in those videos and his/her presence in the revival. This likely doesn't mean anything.

(but what if it does???)

Edited November 14, 2016 by takalotti

[Taryn74]

Ha ha ha, I'm not a rabid Marty fan but I did like him in his first appearance, and that made for a fun read if nothing else.  Way to keep hope alive!

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Ausiello posted an article about this subject. Do you want to know or do you want to just go in with a blank slate. If you want to know I can post it in the spoiler thread.