Climbing the Spitball Wall - An Unsullied's Take on A Song of Ice and Fire - Reading Complete! Now onto Rewatching the Show and Anticipating Season 6!

[ambi76]

Oh yes, Triskan, the plot, it thickens. *gleefully rubs hands together*

[stillshimpy]

Hehehe, oh jeez.   Well hi....Alayne Stone.    Boy, would it bother you if I called you A. Stone, by the way? 

[polyhymnia]

I am reading D & E right now (I stopped my reread when it came in) and would love a thread for it.

[nksarmi]

shimpy - where are you right now in the read?  I want to go review chapter summaries. :)

[Alayne Stone]

 feverfew: I think I will wait to comment on what I think makes book Cersei such a compelling character when Shimpy gets to more relevant reading where that is concerned. I still consider her inclusion amongst all the other female characters in the series as feminist precisely because the character is not a feminist character but is actually a female character with internalized misogyny. GRRM writes a wide breadth of female characters, no two of them being alike, including a female character who is sociopathic. George is still using book Cersei to commentate on certain things intrinsically wrong with the patriarchal society that has help to create a character such as herself. I have come to sympathize with some of the things that happened in her past while fully understanding that it absolutely 100% does not excuse her behavior. But it's the same with book Tyrion, who you can empathize with while also recognizing he is a much darker character who has done some very inexcusable things. But again … I will wait to further elaborate on this until it becomes more relevant.

 

And book Cersei has absolutely been projected onto show Margaery, precisely where the whole using her sexuality to manipulate other people comes in (Margaery with Renly in season 2, Maegery with Tommen in seasons 4 and 5).

I should probably spoiler tag this because Shimpy hasn't been exposed to book Margaery all that much yet, not that there is much to be exposed to given she is really just a periphery character. Which she will eventually come to learn! Muhahaha! This is something entirely non-existent in the books where Margaery is concerned and something that has not been used at all with Cersei in the show after Lancel in season 2. It is by no means a 100% personality projection. Show Margaery is no where near as sociopathic or unreasonably paranoid as book Cersei is. But the sexual manipulation thing has definitely been completely stripped of Cersei post-season 2 and given to Margaery.

 

I’m glad you find show Cersei a compelling character. I don’t, but different strokes for different folks. Several people find her show character compelling and I admit that for me it a 100% biased thing simply because I am more entertained by her book counterpart. But like I said, that’s just me. I will also note that Cersei was like a fine wine for me and definitely ended up being an acquired taste. I absolutely loathed her the first time around. I still loathe her, I just … have come to enjoy how much I loathe her if that makes any sense. ;)

 

But again, I won’t go any further into this. It’ll become more relevant when Shimpy’s reading aligns more with the events of season 5.

 

Reader of Books I am completely with you where Catelyn is concerned. And my opinion of her has changed significantly with each read. The very first time I read her I was unsympathetic. The second time I was utterly ambivalent from generally being bored by her chapters. It has really been a new phenomenon for me where I am actually enjoying her chapters now and looking forward to them. You just end up paying attention to new things on subsequent read throughs with this series which makes sense because there is just so much to soak in, so new details pop out every time you read.

 

Re the blue rose

I remember when that blue rose appeared alongside the other three flowers, everyone was trying to figure out if they were supposed to represent Dany’s “three mounts” on the Westeros.org forums. It made for a good laugh, and it was a nice little easter egg for us book readers, but I think it was mostly just that.

 

Hi Shimpy! A. Stone or simply Alayne would work as well. I don’t think I’ve noticed anyone else here with that name?

 

I’m definitely in when you guys start doing the D&E novels. It definitely should be its own thread as I’m sure there are many people in the book fandom who have not read them. I kind of hope Shimpy continues with the books in A Song of Ice and Fire though, just because the next couple of books are really where the fun really begins in regards to changes made.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Alayne Stone

[stillshimpy]

I don’t think I’ve noticed anyone else here with that name?

 

No, you likely wouldn't.  Alane is my real first name.   One of the funnier things the show dropped on my head was "Uh....did the show just say my name?"  "Pretty sure."  Particularly considering it was for Sansa....I got a little freaked out by it at the time. 

 

It's actually a fairly unusual name in the United States.  It's not a version of Elaine or anything.   I'm told it is a fairly common name in Australia, so if I ever emigrate I will be less unusual. 

 

So, it would feel a little odd for me simply because I'd feel a bit like I was talking to myself.  More so than is usual, even for me.   So... A. Stone is what I'll stick with if that's okay.  Or...if you prefer....Stone?   

Edited October 14, 2015 by stillshimpy

[WindyNights]

Wait people thought that

Cersei's lesbian adventure was supposed to be tittilating???

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be really fucking disturbing

because Cersei's trying to imitate her rapist(Robert) and pretends like she's goring and killing Taena and possibly pretending Taena's Robert as well to get off

[Alayne Stone]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. Okay, well that makes sense! lol

 

A. Stone is totally fine. ;)

 

I've come to find that I much prefer the spelling of it with an A. I didn't not realize it was common anywhere, but it's definitely a really pretty name. :)

 

Oh, I have no doubt some people found the Cersei/Taena scenes titillating. I found them very disturbing myself, especially given her assault history with Robert. It just really gives you an idea of just how screwed up her mental state is if her way of coping with assault is by reenacting it with herself as the assailant.

[stillshimpy]

I've come to find that I much prefer the spelling of it with an A.

 

Thanks.  It's actually an entirely different name from Elaine though.  It's the female version of Alan as opposed to a different version of Elaine.  

 

Sorry, just been the bane of my entire life trying to get people to understand, "No, it's not a version of...you know what? Skip it."  But to continue with the off-topic topic here for a moment:  About two weeks ago I went to a garden art sale and the woman running it introduce herself as "Alaine" and her husband.  I replied "I'm Alane too, nice to meet you" and I found out apparently the pain-in-the-ass that is the whole "different name" thing is universal when she immediately asked, "But how do you spell it?"  Since she thought i was yet another person who could not differentiate between Elaine and ....you get the drift.  

 

The lady flipped out upon learning that my name also started with an A.  She's older than I am, never met someone with even close to the same name before.  I've met one other person.  Anyway artist lady starts to tell me, "It's a long story, but it's a family name and...." "your parents were going to name you Alan if you were a boy, by any chance?"  I felt so bad for her, because ...yes, that was it.  Only, she's also an art teacher, so clearly this is the story she has to tell over and over and over.  I think the poor thing really did think it was unique to her, but no....pretty much universally, "my parents picked out a boy's name and a girl's...."  Best reaction I ever personally got was from a doctor who looked at my chart, looked at me and declared, "You are not a small French man!"  Skilled diagnostician that one.  

 

 

Onwards, where am I in the book?  I'm on an Arya chapter that starts when the first Mummer to die tumbles bonelessly down the roof.  Page 550.  Sorry about my slow pace this week guys.  Long story, I'll spare you.  I'm about to start reading it here in a moment.  

Edited October 14, 2015 by stillshimpy

[nksarmi]

For what it's worth, I named my daughter an odd name and she gets to enjoy the "No it's this, not that..." game too.  But at least she can identify the literary character she is named after (which is a female) rather than it being a "if I were a boy, my name would have been x" type of thing.

[jellyroll2]

Try having your name be a combination of your parents' names and everyone assuming you're named after a country or are of that heritage when it's got nothing at all to do with it. Plus I get it constantly being mispronounced when it sounds exactly as it's spelled. So I totally get the "having to tell a story to explain your name" bit.

[DigitalCount]

My name is rather common, but my SISTER'S name on the other hand is not, far from it, and she constantly had to explain how it was spelled and pronounced, especially since most people pronounce it differently. She now just goes by a much easier nickname. Imagine my surprise when her name made it, completely unedited, into both the books and show.

I have to confess I don't really remember the point shimpy is at. A lot of the brutality starts to run together, to be honest. /polliver

[Haleth]

Even fairly common names can be a problem.  I didn't think my son would need to spend his life spelling his name for people, but he does: Sean.  And it drives him nuts when people pronounce is "seen."  Yeah.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Haleth

[DigitalCount]

Lol, blame the Shawns and Shauns of the world for that.

[Delta1212]

Thanks. It's actually an entirely different name from Elaine though. It's the female version of Alan as opposed to a different version of Elaine.

Sorry, just been the bane of my entire life trying to get people to understand, "No, it's not a version of...you know what? Skip it." But to continue with the off-topic topic here for a moment: About two weeks ago I went to a garden art sale and the woman running it introduce herself as "Alaine" and her husband. I replied "I'm Alane too, nice to meet you" and I found out apparently the pain-in-the-ass that is the whole "different name" thing is universal when she immediately asked, "But how do you spell it?" Since she thought i was yet another person who could not differentiate between Elaine and ....you get the drift.

The lady flipped out upon learning that my name also started with an A. She's older than I am, never met someone with even close to the same name before. I've met one other person. Anyway artist lady starts to tell me, "It's a long story, but it's a family name and...." "your parents were going to name you Alan if you were a boy, by any chance?" I felt so bad for her, because ...yes, that was it. Only, she's also an art teacher, so clearly this is the story she has to tell over and over and over. I think the poor thing really did think it was unique to her, but no....pretty much universally, "my parents picked out a boy's name and a girl's...." Best reaction I ever personally got was from a doctor who looked at my chart, looked at me and declared, "You are not a small French man!" Skilled diagnostician that one.

Onwards, where am I in the book? I'm on an Arya chapter that starts when the first Mummer to die tumbles bonelessly down the roof. Page 550. Sorry about my slow pace this week guys. Long story, I'll spare you. I'm about to start reading it here in a moment.

This cracked me up because we had a project manager at my office for awhile who was a small French man named Alain.

[Delta1212]

And while we're playing "My name problems":

The name I go by, and have gone by pretty much since birth, is not my first name. At a stretch, it's sort of a nickname for my middle name, but not exactly.

So I've had to go through two distinct interactions over and over again. The first is with people who have known me for a while, but know me by my name and not by my legal name. That one goes something along the lines of "What? That's not your name? Oh my god! Is it your middle name?" And the other one was generally the first day of school for every classroom from first grade all the way through college, which consisted of the teacher calling roll and asking what each person went by/if they had a nickname.

So I'd get to say "Yes, that's me, but I go by a completely different name." "Oh, is that your middle name." "No, but it's almost a nickname for my actual middle name" and then explain how pretty much every decent variation of both names was already taken by my father, grandfathers or uncles.

[Avaleigh]

I have a "normal" name that's off from the main way of it being spelled by one letter. Not super different, and I've actually seen the spelling of my name pop up in the works of Charles Dickens among other things but if I tell people the proper spelling, they typically act like they hear me and then go right along spelling it the way they normally would when they hear the name. Any beverage where your name is written on the cup--they'll spell my name wrong even when I spell it out. Occasionally somebody gets it right and every so often I'll even get a story about how X person's sister or whoever used to spell their name the way I spell mine. 

 

Meanwhile my last name is a very simple and straightforward noun but because it isn't a common name and is close to two other common words by one letter, people constantly think it's a misprint. The people who do get it right tend to ask if it is indeed the way they're saying it so I have to assure them that they have it right even though it's shockingly simple. I've dealt with the same questions and reactions since the age of six, I swear.

 

Lately there is a celebrity that I can reference and point out and say that my first name is spelled like her name but that only works with a certain crowd.  

[Triskan]

Since we're on talking names, here's my two cents on the conversation : 

 

My name (Aman - spelled like the capital of Jordan) is quite unusual, and it's a Berber (Amazigh to be precise) name (you know, those tribes who lived in Northern Africa before the Arab invasions, my father is from there and my mother is French). And it means "water", which is a thing I've always loved ! ^^

 

Oh, and back to the books : looking forward for you to reach the Bran and Jon chapters that come after the Arya you're reading now ! ;)

Edited October 14, 2015 by Triskan

[Holmbo]

One positive thing with a unique name is that one is easy to find on the internet. At least I consider that a plus. I'm the only person in the world with my first and last name, as far as I can tell. It's my last name that is unusual though. I can imagine the cons outweighing the pros when it comes to a first name.

[jellyroll2]

Even fairly common names can be a problem.  I didn't think my son would need to spend his life spelling his name for people, but he does: Sean.  And it drives him nuts when people pronounce is "seen."  Yeah.

I had a female friend in college and her name was Chaun (pronounced just like Sean/Shawn/Shaun) so she got a ton of crap too. LOL And Delta, that's pretty much like Kit Harington. He didn't know his name was Christopher until he was 11 because he's always been called Kit. His teacher was calling out attendance in a new school year and when she said Christopher Harington he was like "who the hell is that?" LOL

 

I admit I did a bit of a jig when I saw my name pop up in the series (not the show). It was my last name though, not my first name.

Edited October 14, 2015 by jellyroll2

[Delta1212]

I had a female friend in college and her name was Chaun (pronounced just like Sean/Shawn/Shaun) so she got a ton of crap too. LOL And Delta, that's pretty much like Kit Harington. He didn't know his name was Christopher until he was 11 because he's always been called Kit. His teacher was calling out attendance in a new school year and when she said Christopher Harington he was like "who the hell is that?" LOL

I admit I did a bit of a jig when I saw my name pop up in the series (not the show). It was my last name though, not my first name.

I learned how to spell my "name" early on but not my legal name, so for the first couple of years in grade school, if the teacher held up a name tag on the first day of school and nobody responded to it after a minute, I knew that must be mine.

[nksarmi]

Delta - oh my gosh that is funny.  I go - and have for as long as I can remember - by my middle name.  So I answer my phone with "middle name speaking" all the time and get to occasionally do the "yea, yea that's me" when someone asks for the person by my first and last name.  I also have to constantly do the thing where I can't remember if someone has my legal first name on an account or the name I go by (my middle name). 

 

It was worse in grade school because my mother had me going by - but not officially adopted by - my step dad's name.  So I was supposed to literally ask the teachers to call me by a different first and last name than what was on their rosters.  I put a stop to that in high school because it just felt ridiculous. 

 

I encountered my daughter's first name when I was a Freshman in high school.  It comes from a book series (and if people have read it - they know what it's from instantly).  But while it is very simple to pronounce and spell - it's unusual enough that I was going to give her a rather simply middle name just in case she wanted a "normal" name at some point.  But then we ended up taking a rather unique name from her father's side for her middle name and the end result is beautiful but certainly not "normal" by any sense of the word.  She might like how that works out with "Google" someday though.

[ElizaD]

I just realized something:

stillshimpy will read about Balon's death before seeing it on the show.

 

Even fairly common names can be a problem.  I didn't think my son would need to spend his life spelling his name for people, but he does: Sean.  And it drives him nuts when people pronounce is "seen."  Yeah.

 

I found out about Sean when I watched the LOTR DVD extras starring Sean Bean; before that, I had no idea it wasn't pronounced the way it's spelled. Like Gloucester (which becomes Gloster), it's one of those names you aren't likely to get right if you haven't heard it before (I'm sure there are historical reasons why you're supposed to ignore the -ce in the middle, but when you just see the word you don't know that). My name has tons of different spellings and variations in different countries, so it's about as far from unique as you can get.

[stillshimpy]

I have very, very clearly found my people here :-)  Okay, so the last part of my saga?  To up the pain, my middle name is actually my father's first name (because my parents apparently had it in for me)....and when it came time to name my son I very carefully selected the coolest family name in our family tree for his first name , but having experienced the giddy joy that has been having the DMV clerk look at you like you might be an identity thief (a real dim one that just stole some dude's name) ...I carefully selected an extremely common family name, spelled very traditionally.  So that when he got older, if he hated the "I have kind of a funky name" thing....he could just go by his middle name, problem solved.  

 

Having put careful and deliberate thought into making sure he didn't have to stick with the unusual if he didn't want to....he is the only person I've ever known who LOVES his name.  Just....thinks it's super cool....which I thought was sort of nice when he was telling someone else in front of me about loving his name, and added, "No one ever forgets it.  People always remember it, women always remember it and it actually helps me start conversations with them...." 

 

This sort of relates to the whole Game of Thrones gig, where your house and your family means so much, carry so much weight and announce who someone is expected to be:  I accidentally gave my son a name that totally helps him score.  *facepalm* 

 

Okay, so I've read Arya's chapter where The Hound finds them again and Gendry joins the brotherhood (for however long that lasts) , and am now at least a little afraid that everyone in the Brotherhood, including Gendry dies when they happen whatever hideous thing happens to, since Robb won't be at Riverrun and Arya never sees her family again.   That's one of the more difficult aspects of this story though.  Already knowing that Arya won't see any of them again, at least as far as I know. 

 

Whereas it must have come as a blow to people who had invested in this for years, since I already know the gruesome "oh crap, yeah....none of the Stark kids ever see each other again, do they?"  (Bran didn't even see Jon at The Gift, except through Summer, presumably).  

 

Am I supposed to know who that poor old man was?  I think I actually liked the interpretation of events on the show's part, by the way.  Whereas I'm glad that Ygritte doesn't shoot Jon Snow as he says things like, "You always knew" and "You won't kill me" and other such "Even though you know I'm going to get a whole bunch of your people killed, I'm counting on you to let me go, because you love me....and you know I have to get a whole bunch of your people killed to save my own...."  I am glad that she shoots him and he realizes it was likely her. 

 

Some fun with Xenophobic folklore to be had there in the gap between the stories Jon was told and the ones Ygritte learned.  Bran warging Hodor for just a moment was also nice.  I do miss Bran's dreams at least a bit, where Jojen would be trying to instruct him on how to be a seer also.  It's just, he actually got to see his family again in them. 

 

 

 

you know, those tribes who lived in Northern Africa before the Arab invasions, my father is from there and my mother is French). And it means "water", which is a thing I've always loved ! ^^

 

What an entirely awesome name and has to be considered a very lucky one in Berber, wouldn't it?  

 

I knew a woman, who did speak Spanish, who named her daughter Triste.  Apparently she thought it would be like some kind of blessing, warding away sadness, rather than "Uh....you named your daughter....Sad?"   

Edited October 14, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Skywarpgold]

I've got a bit of an interesting name as well. My first name is just two letters, no periods or spaces, just two capital letters. I got it because my parents couldn't decide which grandfather to name me after, so they split the difference, and took the first letter from their two names, and slapped them together. At the very least, I was the first one in class to be able to write my name out, but over the years, I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain it to people, or show my license, because they just can't comprehend a name with simply two letters. And then, my middle name, is my father's name with "-son" added at the end.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my name, but it sure has been an eventful ride with it all these years. The funniest bit is that my friends in school actually shortened it to the first letter only, since two syllables is just too much to say, lol!

Edited October 14, 2015 by Skywarpgold

[Triskan]

What an entirely awesome name and has to be considered a very lucky one in Berber, wouldn't it?

 

 

I dont know about luck, but I cant go to my father's hometown in Morroco without getting the "Aman awid Aman" jokes (which would litteraly translate as "Water, bring me water !" ^^)

 

Sooo, you've read the Bran chapter at Queenscrown... I know the show couldnt have done the tower in the middle of a lake and the "under water" bridge visual, but I loved it in the books !

Edited October 14, 2015 by Triskan

[Haleth]

I've got a bit of an interesting name as well. My first name is just two letters, no periods or spaces, just two capital letters. I got it because my parents couldn't decide which grandfather to name me after, so they split the difference, and took the first letter from their two names, and slapped them together.

Ah, but which grandfather got the first letter? Just curious, is it pronounceable (for example, AL) or do you have to pronounce each letter (for example JR)? Just wondering.

Ok, getting back on topic, I don't think we are meant to know who the old man was that Ygritte killed. He was an unfortunate wanderer who became collateral damage.

[stillshimpy]

Sooo, you've read the Bran chapter at Queenscrown... I know the show couldnt have done the tower in the middle of a lake and the "under water" bridge visual, but I loved it in the books !

 

It was so much better in the books.  Particularly since in the show Bran takes that moment -- when they are in the creepy, derelict pile -- to tell a creepy story about a man being fed his sons in a pie.  I know it was the show's way of incorporating the "whoever harms a guest after offering them shelter and food will bring the wrath of gods and demons down upon themselves" stuff prior to the Red Wedding.   The books have sort of carefully covered that from multiple angles , already shown the Roose Bolton will break that rule and defy the legends by being willing to give Brienne to Hoat when Bolton has to know the Saphire ransom thing is a bunch of bunk.  There were several other points in the story where that note was hit in the books. 

 

In the show, they have poor Bran choosing, perhaps the worst possible moment to tell everybody a creepy ghost story.  Part of what always bothered me about that is that Hodor only says, "Hodor" but understands enough of what he hears that it seemed a very creepy choice to make. 

 

I much preferred learning the story of Good Queen Alysanne (oh the tortured spellings of one George R. R. Martin .....that one cracked me up quite a bit) from both Jon and Bran.  

 

I like how Old Nan and Maester Luwin and there stories seem to aid the various Stark relatives wandering around the North. 

 

I also feel like both Bran and Arya are being written a little more realistically for their ages this book.  Arya's abandonment issues are really very realistic for a girl her age.   I love Show Arya, but she's older and her transition from "likes to play at swords with Miccah" to "becomes a single-minded, revenge seeking assassin"  sort of happened without that stage of her just feeling so hurt and frightened all the time and having to hide it.  That for her it's just been a big long road on the "not safe to feel anything" way of life.  

 

I think the show did a reasonably good job of it, although that hideous scene outside of the Red Wedding when she sees Rob's body just seems to snap her like a wet carrot and she never goes back, so it's just very abrupt.   By the way, I'm at least a little glad that the show took that terrible scene from Dany's visions in the Palace of Dust rather than what is meant to be done to Robb.  

 

But mostly, I'm just freaking glad that isn't the only glimpse of her family Arya ever gets again....which was so incredibly upsetting in the show.  So that her transition was almost closer to a full-on psychotic break brought on by extreme trauma.  Book Arya is absolutely developing her own PTSD....but it's somehow less upsetting when I have access to her emotional process on it.  Like when she regrets ruining the dress and apologizes, because it had belonged to the woman's daughter.  

 

Sure, she's practically feral at this stage, but there's still that part of her that is believably a Lord's daughter losing that identity out of necessity as much as anything. 

[WindyNights]

I'm not sure how Ygritte caught up to him on the show considering they didn't bring horses over the Wall and Jon stole the last horse the old man had.

[Delta1212]

"By the way, I'm at least a little glad that the show took that terrible scene from Dany's visions in the Palace of Dust rather than what is meant to be done to Robb."

Oh dear.

[Which Tyler]

frey pie, Frey pie, FREY PIE!!!

Edited October 14, 2015 by Which Tyler

[Delta1212]

frey pie, Frey pie, FREY PIE!!!

Also my first thought.

Would you like Freys with that?

Oh, and shimpy, they actually moved the Rat Cook story to after the Red Wedding on the show. Bran told it right before they ran into Samwell at the Wall.

[Mya Stone]

"By the way, I'm at least a little glad that the show took that terrible scene from Dany's visions in the Palace of Dust rather than what is meant to be done to Robb."

Oh dear.

At least they don't show it...they just, like, talk about it. In detail. Passing detail.

[nksarmi]

Oh have you read the Dany chapter that follow's Jon's? And Ayra's next chapter is interesting.

 

I love that Summer saved Jon.

Oh have you read the Dany chapter that follow's Jon's? And Ayra's next chapter is interesting.

 

I love that Summer saved Jon.

[Haleth]

Would you like Freys with that?

Ok, that had me laughing out loud.

 

Another name observation, I've know women who spell their name Alys, so Alysanne doesn't faze me.

[stillshimpy]

Oh, and shimpy, they actually moved the Rat Cook story to after the Red Wedding on the show. Bran told it right before they ran into Samwell at the Wall.

 

Oh God, that's right.  I have a lot of Post Traumatic Show syndrome from that damned wedding.  

[bobbybuilderton]

Oh God, that's right. I have a lot of Post Traumatic Show syndrome from that damned wedding.

the more you block out post season 3, the happier you will be. It really does go down hill from there.

You noted how arya's transition is much less sudden than in the show. As a fan of Arya I agree. In the show, she's one of the characters that I feel the producers have only a surface level understanding of. Recently they madecertain comments about a certain object representing a certain thing despite text from the series and basic reading comprehension skulls (ETA:I'm going to leave this typo here because it's amusing to me)indicating the opposite.

Edited October 15, 2015 by bobbybuilderton

[Lavignac]

LOL ! 

Basic reading skulls? ;-) Sorry but that's priceless!

[Alayne Stone]

My name is completely and totally boring (though I love it). It's Rachel. The only thing I occasionally get is the fact that it's common so other people will occasionally have it too, and also the fact that it can be spelled differently. My response is generally "it's spelled the easy way."

 

Good Queen Alysanne! AKA: one of my favorite Targaryens from Westorsi history. I know it's supposed to be a weird spelling of "Alison" but I always kind of pronounce it "Alice-sane" in my head and I love the name so much I've actually contemplated naming my kid it if I ever have kids. Which of course means I am probably dooming that potential future to the same fate as some of you. Oops.

 

I was pretty happy with the way Queenscrown was rendered on the screen. The only thing for me was that the book made it kind of feel like peril was more imminent. I also love the description of Queenscrown which is another one of those locations that is very much underscored in the show. But I thought it was cool that the steps leading to the little mini island are underwater and the fact that Bran & co. had to carefully feel their way across without falling in the water.

 

I love that shimpy is so paranoid that something horrible happens to Gendry and the Brotherhood because they just up and disappear from the show. I can't wait for her to get to the epilogue ... and the next book. She's going to quickly learn that the show just kind of abandons plotlines for no reason at all and see that there are several storylines with major plotlines that have simply been left out.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Alayne Stone

[Lady S.]

I just realized something:

stillshimpy will read about Balon's death before seeing it on the show.

 

Yes, that should be coming up soon,

the first really big deviation in Storm, laying the groundwork for the other big changes in s4-s5.

[Triskan]

Yeah, we first got that news when

Cat and Rob arrive at the Twins, which shimpy is reaching fast !

[jellyroll2]

"By the way, I'm at least a little glad that the show took that terrible scene from Dany's visions in the Palace of Dust rather than what is meant to be done to Robb."

Oh dear.

Yeah I chuckled at that. Along with her talking about Bran's Rat Cook story. Like, well....

[jellyroll2]

Alayne, I pronounce it Alice-sane too.

You know they had an in depth, really interesting debate about Jon not killing the old man on westeros.org just recently. Was he justified in not doing it knowing the fate of the NW, and thus the realm, depended on him getting to CB and warning them. But to refuse to kill the old man left a good chance the wildlings would kill him, defeating the mission he was on. He had no way to know Summer would save the day. So the debate was about was sparing that old man's life, who was gonna die no matter what Jon did, worth risking the potential fall of the NE and then the realm. It was an interesting discussion.

Edited October 15, 2015 by jellyroll2

[WindyNights]

Well no it's not worth it. But would you say that's weakness of character or strength of character? Jon like Robb is too kind and while that makes him a great person it also makes him liable to making bad decisions.

[Dev F]

the more you block out post season 3, the happier you will be. It really does go down hill from there.

 

Definitely disagree. Season 4 is probably tied with season 1 for my favorite season of the show, largely because I think those are the only two seasons that work on their own terms rather than as a greatest-hits version of the books and/or as half-baked setup for stuff that only makes sense once we get into the following season.

 

Season 5, though, I would agree is pretty dire -- and not just for the ways it deviates from the book, which I don't personally care all that much about as long as the deviations are dramatically satisfying. In fact, there's a particular storyline in the books that I think is irredeemably awful and was happy for the show to reimagine, but the producers miraculously managed to make it even worse. But that's a rant for a much later time.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Dev F

[Reader of Books]

(Arya's) transition was almost closer to a full-on psychotic break brought on by extreme trauma.  Book Arya is absolutely developing her own PTSD....but it's somehow less upsetting when I have access to her emotional process on it.  Like when she regrets ruining the dress and apologizes, because it had belonged to the woman's daughter.  

 

Sure, she's practically feral at this stage, but there's still that part of her that is believably a Lord's daughter losing that identity out of necessity as much as anything. 

 

Nail on the head. In the show she flips from a lovable 'tom-boy' urchin into a BAMF dark angel of vengeance. The book character has a whole lot more going on. She is developing skills but she really is still just a kid trying to get home and fighting her way through the slings and arrows or outrageous fortune. She has an internal struggle going on to keep to her path and her identity is focused on getting home and in particular memories of Jon.

 

The flattening of Arya into a BAMF is part of the reason so many people are so strongly opinionated against Sansa. Show Arya has become a force to be reckoned with. Show Sansa sits in silence holding back tears.

[Haleth]

In my head I pronounce Alysanne as Alice Anne.

 

Yeah, we first got that news when

Cat and Rob arrive at the Twins, which shimpy is reaching fast !

Even before that.  

The tiny old woman the Brotherhood talk to tells them the Kraken king is dead.

[stillshimpy]

I'm just starting the Dany chapter and there's a hilarious typo in the Kindle version that has her name spelled as Dairy.  Damn you, Autocorrect: Game of Thrones style.  

 

I always take a break whenever I need to sort of gird up my loins for a chapter I know I'm likely to find a bit dull.  Dany's stuff tends to be that way for me, but we'll see.  

 

I'd made a couple of notes and forgot to share them.  One of the things I wish the show hadn't changed was turning the Thenns into cannibals instead of the Ice River people being cannibals.  In the book, they interest me the most out of the Wildlings because they are so unlike any of the other "Free Folk" and Jon even notes that they have a commander, that the Thenns are very disciplined and follow orders.  Plus, speaking the Old Tongue, etc. makes me wonder if they are in league with the Children of Craster: White Walker division on some level. 

 

 

Instead, in the show, Thormund says, "Thenns.  I hate Thenns."  or something very like that and there's this big, long, drawn out scene of the least surprising reveal in televised history.   Here was the dialogue in my house: 

 

(Creepy men appear with tribal scars and a sack full o' something sinister that gets a lot of focus from the camera....the Wildlings openly note hating them)

Me:  So, there's a person in that bag. 

My husband:  Yeah, ten bucks it's a person.  Make that twenty. 

Me:  You can't bet me if we both think the same thing.  

My husband:  Technically betting each other is always a little silly, because it's our money vs.....and it's a person. 

Me:  Told you.   But why would anyone roast an arm like that?  They aren't just cannibals, they're bad cooks. 

My husband: Yes, I'm sure that was the show's point. 

 

So the Thenn reveal, far from being some "OMG! The horrors of it!" had us debating culinary technique.  As two people who are pescetarians anyway.  So really, if you can't gross out a non-meat eater with the reveal of "Merciful Zeus and Vengeful Hera! Soylent Green is People!" that goes into the dramatic fail column. 

 

ETA:  I see that the board has taken a pointed dislike to my text breaks.  Edited to fix....hopefully. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Reader of Books]

My spitball theory about the Show Thenns is that they were having a brainstorm session one day abut the Free Folk and when listing them down they wrote, Thenns, cannibals on a whiteboard. When the intern was sent in to write it all down, they wrote it as Thenns = cannibals.

[plurie]

Season 5, though, I would agree is pretty dire -- and not just for the ways it deviates from the book, which I don't personally care all that much about as long as the deviations are dramatically satisfying. In fact, there's a particular storyline in the books that I think is irredeemably awful and was happy for the show to reimagine, but the producers miraculously managed to make it even worse. But that's a rant for a much later time.

Dorne?