Climbing the Spitball Wall - An Unsullied's Take on A Song of Ice and Fire - Reading Complete! Now onto Rewatching the Show and Anticipating Season 6!

[Delta1212]

Could 't agree more. I've long seen Sansa as the Disney princess who got dropped in a story where the handsome prince turns out to be a monster, rather than the monster turning out to be a handsome prince.

Even though Sansa isn't among the characters I'm most interested in (especially in this first book), she's one of the one's I'm most looking forward to seeing your reaction to on the page vs screen, in part because I do remember your Sansa defenses and she is such a polarizing figure.

[Protar]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Un-Unsullied reactions to pretty much all the major characters :P. As I'm sure you're seeing already, some of the show versions are pretty much faithful to the books, others are literally polar opposites of their characters in the books, some are idealised or vilified cartoons of their book counterparts. Some characters are purely invented for the show. And very rarely the show expands upon book characters and actually makes them a bit better. 

 

I hope speaking broadly like this isn't considered spoiling. I know what the Unsullied are like with spoilers, so I'm trying not to break any rules, but nor can I contain my excitement. There's so much I can't wait for you guys to see. 

[stillshimpy]

By the way, thank you, Triskan, it's so freaking fun to be able to talk to you guys at long last.  Don't get me wrong, throughout the years I've gotten the occasional PM from Bookwalkers and they were always nice ones.  It's just nice to be able to actually talk about the story and get feedback on things too. 

 

Could 't agree more. I've long seen Sansa as the Disney princess who got dropped in a story where the handsome prince turns out to be a monster, rather than the monster turning out to be a handsome prince.

 

I like the way you put that, Delta.  It sums it up very nicely.  

 

I'm also prepared for the whole, "Well and we'll see whether or not I end up feeling like she betrays her family at any point."  So that's part of the reason i wanted to just flesh out why I have felt they way I do, that I get it may be subject to change and that I also get that there's always going to be something inherently irksome about a character that wants to fulfill a role that is deemed prissy for good reason.   That the role itself is actual evidence of the subjugation of women is not the fault of people or characters who just want validation, love and success on societal terms.  

I don't know that I like Sansa as much as I feel pretty deeply for her.  

 

And keeping in mind Protar's words, I guess I'll see how well that holds up to what goes on.  

[Delta1212]

I'm in the process of catching up to you again, and reading the scene where Drogo gives Dany the horse reminded of another bit of behind-the-scenes trivia.

The show hired a linguist named David Peterson to flesh out the little snippets of Dothraki and Valyrian in the books into actual languages that they could use on the show. At one point, they asked him if there was anything interesting about Dothraki, and among other things he mentioned the lack of a word for "thank you" (because he hadn't invented one yet). They liked that, so they threw in that line for Jorah "There is no word for thank you in Dothraki."

I think he did ultimately end up creating a phrase that has essentially the same function down the line, though. Can't remember what it is at the moment, but you can, in fact, show gratitude in Dothraki.

[Meredith Quill]

I've been following the Unsullied for years, since the TWOP days. And I'm glad to see that some of you guys are finally checking out the books after a disappointing fifth season (to be honest I've been disappointed at the changes the show has made since season 2 - but looking back now we had it so good back then.). So I thought I'd make an account here to finally be able to chip in and interact with you guys. I'm really excited for your reaction to some of the big changes coming later on. Stillshimpy your thoughts have been really interesting so far :)

 

Welcome to the forum, we're always happy to see a new poster! :)

[stillshimpy]

Well and I just read the Eddard chapter when Robert has Ned shaken awake and off they go on an expository ride.  One of my favorite scenes from the first season and I can understand the reason they changed it to taking place at a picnic table instead of on horseback.  Practical and budgetary reasons.  It answered a lot of long-time questions for me and I've clearly always been wrong about two things: One that Robert had any problem with killing the Targaryen children.  

 

I liked Robert -- which isn't just down to liking Mark Addy at this point in the book -- people here mentioned not noticing the names of various characters, not realizing that Royce shouted "For Robert!" because Robert was his King, in whose service he took an Oath.  The upside of the order I've done things in is that I know the majority of names.  Every time I see Ser Meryn's name I practically want to hurl, because it's not like I liked the guy when I thought he was just Syrio's murderer and a killer of actual infants (still one of the most disturbing things ever -- that Knight walking by with a baby dangling upside down, like a person might hold a dead chicken; by its feet) , but now I've got even more reason to think of him as Trout (as in , hey-could-someone-gut-him-like-one ) .  

Seeing Jory's name reminds me over and over again of my Jaime grudge, too.   So part of what is making this a rich read right off the bat is that I already know a lot of these characters, but Robert -- a character I already liked -- is pleasantly surprising me so far by having a fair amount of page-charisma.  Maybe it's easy to achieve that with characters who are just prone to dynamic action.  That Robert seems like a person where everything is super-sized.  Big loves, huge tempers, warmth or chilling cold in proportion to his size.  Plus, it's a little easy for me to forgive him for some things I might have found a little off-putting if this was my first introduction to him.  Specifically the "Oh forget my shrewish wife, let's go get some, right now!  Women of the world beware, here I come with appetites that match the rest of me, needing to devour some more of life, to truly feel alive..."  attitude that might not have been so forgivable if I didn't already know Cersei a bit. 

 

Or it likely still would have been forgivable, because even if I was brand new to the story, I did just read about her affair with own brother that has already resulted in a kid being shoved to what was intended to be his demise.  Then here's Robert, talking about handing a region over to him?  

 

So Jaime isn't really in the Kingsguard in this story, or rather, the Kingsguard isn't like the Wall.  The Oath isn't binding for life, just for the length of service?  Interesting that the one thing I thought the show was pretty clear on is pretty much instantly muddied in the book whereas things the show has never been clear on, or took years to address are pretty freaking quickly defined and explained in the book. 

 

Whereas exposition is always a difficult thing to pull off organically on the screen, I have to imagine that the books made sure to provide the history fairly early on because it's important to the overall structure of the tale to understand things.   So the books pretty much always had a flashing neon sign over Jon's head that said, "Almost certainly Lyanna's son".  Good to know.  Particularly when for half a damned decade I would argue that I hope he was Ned's son for a bunch of reasons.  

 

One being that everyone deserves to fall in actual love at some point in their life and to not feel like the person who was good enough to fill a void left by another, but that was all. So that is part of the reason I have always wanted Wylla to have been real.  I guess she wasn't though, because it turned out Robert hadn't ever laid eyes on her.  Okay.   

 

So...that's not actually the funnest thing to have confirmed following this season's finale that already featured me giving my dog a good drenching in tears as it was.   Because Jon never really resonated for me as a tragic character until the final moments of season five, but he was from the first pages of the book, clearly.  The story took some pains to make sure how fully I understood, "No really, it sucked to not have a name in that world, and doing that to someone and then making sure they'd dwell in social circles where they'd always be made to feel like the person of lesser worth does actually SUCK to do to a person on purpose."  You know, that's not actually from history, so that's part of the reason I was a little surprised.  Also, Catelyn insisting that Jon couldn't stay at Winterfell when Ned said he could not go to the capital puts a different spin on Jon going to the Wall as a teen.  

 

That one is one I've had to learn to accept and then Buzzfeed did their damnedest to make sure I couldn't keep cruising any Egyptian rivers.  Well....poo on more than one level.  

Book Robert is as likable to me as Mark Addy made him, I think.  At least so far and his blinding Targ rage was something Addy really brought to life...but I also had a hard time believing he'd have killed Lyanna's child.  It's actually a little painful to see that he comes sort of close to trusting Jaime, by the way. 

 

Oh and I have just realized, another invented scene:  So the Catelyn and Cersei scene was an invented one?  I admit, I wasn't going to catch that one as being one thrown in to add clarity to anything.  That had a ring of authenticity to me for the character and the setting , but we're past the point in the story were it could have occurred.  Well...well done, show.  Some invented scenes seem kind of easy to spot (Cersei and Jaime by Jon's dead body) without having to read the books prior to this. 

 

Interesting that yet another character moment that made me dislike Jaime is apparently wholly invented too.  I hated the "Jaime takes time out of his night to bully a kid about wanting to join the Wall and does that ridiculous 'let me shake your hand and put too much muscle into it, because apparently I'm just that insecure' male-posturing thing."  

 

Aerys throat was cut as opposed to being stabbed from behind.   

 

Boy, the series wanted to make good and sure I didn't accidentally like some of these characters.  Or at least it feels that way.  Maybe they wanted to have good guys vs. bad guys as a more relatable and recognizable narrative structure, because it would emphasize the tragedy of Ned's eventual death?  

 

I like book Ned, by the way.  He's far more guarded and careful than I would have given screen Ned credit for being.  He's also decidedly not dim-witted or even simply average.  Nice to find out he has the ability to actually read a room.   

 

Makes me wonder how the shit with Littlefinger is going to play out, because that was the series neon sign of "Uh....dude?  He's actually straight-up telling you things like 'don't trust me...' and that he would rather a different king on the throne, but you're still counting on him to come through....why exactly?"  

 

So a more perceptive Ned with a less bullish devotion to what seemed willful blindness is more likable...and I already liked him plenty.  One who is clearly making decisions to lie and making such a point of "no one ever gets to ask about Jon's mother" because it cuts down on the number of times he'll have to actively lying, rather than passively lying is a character who makes a bit more sense. 

 

I did get a little chuckle out of his reaction to Jorah Mormont's name.  "Oh yeah, that unpleasant thing I stepped in?  Him.  What about him?"  it made me remember all the times Jorah would say to Dany, "Ned Stark wants my head" like it was somehow Ned's fault that Jorah sold slaves in a land where it was against the law and punishable by death.  But Robert's near "whatevs, he gives good spying" type of acceptance of Jorah looking for a pardon actually did make it seem like...No, seriously, that seemed to mostly be Ned in high dudgeon as opposed to 'dude, he was fulfilling his duty as Warden, but it doesn't seem like he had any personal motivation there other than enforcing the law.   Maybe he did just not like Jorah and it had only been five years?  Good to know too. 

 

Also nice to know that Ned didn't have to spend an hour loosening his clothing to compensate for the shock to his system every time he made a joke.  Book Ned seems serious, but capable of having fun without having to limber up first.  

Edited June 17, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Delta1212]

Yeah, there are a couple of invented scenes that were shot at the end of production just because they needed to add a couple of minutes to a few episodes where they were running short. The Cat and Cersei scene was one of them, I believe.

Another is actually one of my favorite scenes in the first season, but we're not there yet.

And man, this chapter really shows off again how much Mark Addy nailed it. I hadn't re-read enough of Robert's dialogue on the page since the show aired to notice before, but his voice has definitely taken over the way that Conleth Hill's has for Varys in my mind. I can hear Mark Addy saying even the lines he didn't actually say in the show.

[Skywarpgold]

Oh man, shimpy, I'm sorry you were spoiled (had your vision clouded?) the way you were, but I have to say, as others have, I'm extremely excited to see your unsullied views of the books. Welcome to the other side of the wall!

[stillshimpy]

Thank you, Skywaprgold :-)  You, Silver, Mya ....well, you're all held in the highest esteem by all members of the Spitball Wall, by me in particular,  because you guys did an amazing job for us and are still doing an amazing job for everyone who remains.   

 

I wasn't being as careful as I needed to be, that's a big part of it.  The person who started the big spoiling was a friend on Facebook I'd friended within the last year and I didn't realize he was a GoT reader, so I hadn't unfollowed him.  I should have been more careful and it's on me for not sticking with the stuff I knew worked. 

 

Funny story though, particularly since it relates to a famous movie quotes about Walls.  I had  aTom Cruise/Jack Nicholson Danny vs. Jessup moment about midway through the season, when I realized, "Some of this stuff can't be from the books...." I follow -- or followed -- threads in the habitat and so I'd get an alert every time someone posted whether or not I'd see the post and just like the "I'm wonder why he hadn't packed..." for Santiago it suddenly dawned on me "Whoa...why isn't anyone trying to spoil us?"  

 

So the irony of that is pretty amusing, I think.   I was so busy wandering around wondering "Hey, why isn't anyone lobbing book grenades at us this year?"  that I friggin' stepped on a land mine because I wasn't watching where I was going.  

 

 

 

The Cat and Cersei scene was one of them, I believe.

 

It's funny, because I really like that for the character development it offered for Cersei.  I thought it was a well-written scene too.  Also, one other thing, at least from the first episode, they must have really felt like they needed to flesh out Jaime and Cersei pretty quickly, because three of the scenes that were apparently invented for the pilot feature one or the other.  Unlike the Jaime ones, if anything, that scene made me like Cersei.  

 

Cersei has always been difficult for me to take and for the oddest reason:  I love Lena Headey.  She's wonderful and she's a really good actress, but she played Sarah Connor in the Sarah Connor chronicles and whereas her Sarah was an emotionally inaccessible type of character by design, she was also one of the best people ever depicted onscreen.  Someone who would sacrifice their entire life to trying to save a world full of people, so that her son would stand a chance of saving them all. 

 

So maybe that's why I liked that scene so much.  She was closest to being Sarah Connor again in that scene.  It never would have occurred to me that she played it more like SC and that the emotional beats in it actually reminded me of Sarah without knowing it was invented for the pilot.  

Edited June 17, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Delta1212]

That one's actually in episode 2 (what with Bran already having been defenestrated by that point) but your point stands.

And I loved Lena Headey as Sarah Connor. I was definitely excited to see her as Cersei, and she's done a great job with it. The fact that I like her so much is the only reason I wasn't more disappointed that we didn't get to see another actress in the part who is apparently a huge fan of the books and also auditioned for the role: Tricia Helfer.

[Lady S.]

Oh wow, this is really exciting. I used to lurk on the other side of the Wall too but the doom and gloom of the second half of s5 kinda ruined it. Someone insightful diving into the book for the first time should be a much better experience.

I already like your comments on Ned, I really could not get a feel for this character before getting inside his head. One of my UOs is that I feel like Sean Bean was just hired to bring in fans of the LotR movies and for the value of his overall name recognition, but he didn't really add much to the role. The actor who played Benjen matched book Ned's description better and I wonder what Joseph Mawle could have done with a more prominent role.

[stillshimpy]

The fact that I like her so much is the only reason I wasn't more disappointed that we didn't get to see another actress in the part who is apparently a huge fan of the books and also auditioned for the role: Tricia Helfer.

 

Ooof.  Seriously?  We almost had Tricia Helfer in this role? That's almost difficult to know, because she could have seriously rocked the hell out of that role and she has that icy-beauty-barely-concealing-vulnerability thing down so incredibly to an art form.  I'll have to tell my husband that one, because he's always referred to Tricia Helfer (as Six) as being someone you could absolutely believe was that dangerously beautiful: where she could get almost anyone to do almost anything.   On the other hand, she does have a very modern sort of beauty and I've always sort of appreciated that they went for an actress who is beautiful, but the kind of beautiful that seems to exist in real life.  Not exactly perfect teeth.  Not built like a super-model.  But Tricia Helfter could have been so beautifully regal.  

 

What a tough call on preference that would be for me.  Now that's something I'm super glad I didn't know for years and year, because if anyone knew me from any fandom before this, it would have been BSG.  Just my fandom loyalty world's would have collided.   You know, I'm going to admit that in terms of appearance only, I think Tricia Helfer looks one hell of a lot more like Nikolaj Coster-Walda's twin than Lena Headey does.  Like startlingly.  

 

There's something to mull, but I'm assuming they must have really wanted Headey for the role, because she was fairly obviously pregnant, and whereas I admit, it made certain moments cuter than they might have been otherwise (there's a great moment where she has to rise from a chair and you can spot how whacked out her center-of-gravity is at that particular time even beneath the giant "Made these from the curtains at Tara" type gowns they had Lena Headey in.  

 

One of my UOs is that I feel like Sean Bean was just hired to bring in fans of the LotR movies and for the value of his overall name recognition, but he didn't really add much to the role. The actor who played Benjen matched book Ned's description better and I wonder what Joseph Mawle could have done with a more prominent role.

 

I have to admit, he's a better match to Ned in the book, but I do think bringing in a big name for Ned was necessary, not just to appeal to a fandom but because the characters fate.  I was able to cling to denial that Ned was so gonna freaking perish for so much longer than I might have otherwise because he was played by a recognizable actor.  I just couldn't believe they were going to kill the name recognition-factor-actor like that.  Plus, for me. not having read the books...I loved Ned. I adored him.  Somewhere on the internet's permanent record are about a thousand words I wrote about my love for Ned.  That's when I thought, "despite being a bit of dunderhead" ...so I think I always would have loved Sean Bean's Ned, I just would have been far more confused by his acting choices prior to this.  As it is, I have retroactive confusion.   Plus, the age thing becomes sort of important for Cat's arc with Littlefinger.  

 

It also might be worth mentioning that if you were looking for the person who doesn't associate Sean Bean with The Lord of the Rings, you have found me :-)  I am not Rings fan and whereas I've seen the movies, I don't actually associate Sean Bean with them.  He's been in a lot of things and I blush to admit that things like National Treasure and The Island (yeah, yeah, you found the one person who sort of likes that movie...and might actually own it) are what I associate him with before I think Rings.  I do think you're right and that fairly obviously fantasy fans likely do associate him with the trilogy.  My husband does.  

 

But I adored Joseph Mawle as Benjen.  After I finally convinced my husband that he was not, in fact, Timothy Dalton. Totally felt like the series went out of its way on Sunday to sucker punch me with that one too, which in a lot of ways, I have to hand it to them.  

 

Okay, I've managed to resist reading again for a bit.  

 

So it occurs to me that I get to ask some questions, if you'll let me, about things I've always wondered about.   For how long did fans of the books know that the series had been picked up for TV?  Were your hearing casting news throughout?  Was this hotly debated thing?  Because whereas it's extremely obvious that I really like Mark Addy, loved his work, and think the guy has got serious acting game....I don't think I would have guessed that he was a good pick if I'd known what Robert was supposed to be like.  Addy was great in that role, but prior to playing Robert, I associated him with the good, kind of unassuming guy, if that makes sense.  

Like I wouldn't have said, "Oh, for a character known for his lust for life, verve and commanding presence, as well as the heart of a lion...but gone to seed....a womanizer, hard-drinking, big-loving, equally hot-tempered man who is....also supposed to be kind of a giant...what a perfect pick!"  If the BBC had announced a miniseries for The Wars of the Roses and announced Mark Addy as Edward IV, I'd have said "I love Mark Addy...but what a weird pick...wtf?" 

 

ETA: That's totally weird.  I can't get the quote tags to work.  

Edited June 17, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Delta1212]

That's a hilariously timed question, because I literally spent this afternoon digging up Mark Addy's casting announcement on one of the old fan sites because that was in 2009 back before I started reading and I was curious about the initial reaction. It came out at the same time as Sean Bean was announced for Ned and Kit Harrington, Harry Lloyd and Jack Gleeson were revealed for Jon Snow, Viserys and Joffrey.

Frankly, I was expecting more skepticism than there actually was about Mark Addy. Most people who commented said about what you did, but acknowledged he was a great performer and could probably pull it off.

It's actually hilarious to read some of the comments now, but I can't link it here because it contains some speculation about the casting of other characters and brings up a pretty major spoiler that so far has been cut from the show but that you'll probably want to read without knowing about ahead of time.

There has been a ton of casting speculation throughout the whole process, though. GRRM has a blog and would post casting clues in the form of riddles about the character and actor that would be playing it. It continued even past the premiere of the show as each season introduced new characters, although George stopped dropping hints after, I think, the second or third season.

Re: Tricia Helfer looking like NCW, I know right? Physically, I think she's perfect for the role, and I would have liked to see how she played it, but after five seasons I can't really imagine anyone other than Lena as the show's Cersei. I'd mourn the loss of her drunken act in Blackwater alone too much to see her swapped out with another actress, even one I adore.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Delta1212

[Haleth]

Shimpy, I hope you realize all of us (if I may say so) are waiting for you to reach certain places in the books for your "wait, what??" reactions. Not just GoT but the other 4 also.

Tricia Helfer? My love for her has no bounds, but no. She's not Cersei.

I had been tempted to read the books for years but hearing that they were so depressing, nothing good ever happened to anyone made me put them back on the shelf time after time. Once I heard Sean Bean (repeat, dreamy) was cast as the lead (HA! fooled me!) I made the leap. I later learned he only agreed to star since it wasn't a long term commitment. (Yeah, got that right). The only other actor I was familiar with was NCW (who is pretty high on the dreamy scale too).

[Mya Stone]

Ooh ooh! I can answer these, shimp! 

 

We (the smaller fandom) heard whispers of a television show in early 2006. We immediately started "casting" in different threads. Peter Dinklage has always been the fandom's choice Tyrion, as Sean Bean as Ned. Those were in our dreams...so in 2009, when it became a reality, we were SO excited. We were...confused...by the casting of Mark Addy. I honestly forgot who we had dream cast in the role - the one thing that was very difficult to do was try and picture HUGE people (height and girth wise), because George's descriptions are so fantastical. Mark Addy was not who we pictured, at all. But...when photos first came out, excitement grew. And it grew even more after hearing George stating that Addy was perfection in the role. And then, when we finally saw him, it all made sense. :) 

I was a big Tricia Helfer as Cersei supporter, but Lena has completely and utterly won me over, so much so, that I see her now that I'm reading. Which is interesting. When NCW was cast, he was not who I pictured at all, but as the one fan of New Amsterdam, I knew the actor and could picture it. Sadly, as you've noted...the character is much different on the page than he is in the show, but I still think he has that "Jaime" swagger. (Speaking of Season 1 only, here.) 

At any rate, we knew the kids would all be unknowns. They have all been revelations, to me. We got really, really lucky.

The biggest difference, to me, was when they recast Cat. They had originally cast Jennifer Ehle as Cat, and I couldn't believe how perfect she matched my head-canon. I had a hard time with Michelle Fairley's recast, at first, but she did amazing work with what she was given. (Jennifer Ehle left the show because she had just given birth to a little girl, and didn't want to be far from her...how Cat like, amirite? :p) 

Also, an interesting first casting blip - they had originally cast Tamzin Merchant as Dany; she was perceived, eh, oddly, by some. I was not one of them. I always thought the Targaryen look should stand out, and thought she had an odd beauty to her. Alas, Emilia has wiped that clean out of my head, so much so that I had to google "Original Dany actress" to figure out her name, heh. I think the issue with her was that she worked when they didn't age Dany, but when they decided to play her older, the actress didn't fit. They've never actually said why they recast her. 

Anyway, I digress. Tl;dr - we had always dream cast the roles as movies (from the time I joined the fandom in 2000, it was something we did when we got bored discussing the books, haha). There were lots of people we didn't think of for the roles, but once we saw them, were thrilled with. :) 

[Triskan]

Were your hearing casting news throughout?  Was this hotly debated thing?

 

 

Oh my sweet summer child, if you knew how much fire and passion ink has been spilled on casting speculation and wishes ! :)

 

There are many funny stories to be told on the subject but I will leave just that one : Cillian Murphy's been one of the fan favourite choices for Ramsay during a long time ! ^^

[Avaleigh]

Since we're talking about original casting choices from when we first read the books I remember crossing my fingers hoping somehow that Diane Kruger would be cast as Cersei. I kind of imagined a green eyed Naomi Watts type but knew they wouldn't be able to get a name like that. 

 

I had Paul Bettany as Jaime Lannister. When I first heard about the casting of Lena Headey as Cersei I thought to myself that she'd make a better Catelyn. It took me a full season to warm up to her but now that I have I love her in the role. Polly Walker is another name I thought would be god for Catelyn early on. 

 

I think Holliday Grainger would have made a great Margaery. (Not knocking Natalie Dormer.)

[Mya Stone]

Oh my sweet summer child, if you knew how much fire and passion ink has been spilled on casting speculation and wishes ! :)

 

There are many funny stories to be told on the subject but I will leave just that one : Cillian Murphy's been one of the fan favourite choices for Ramsay during a long time ! ^^

 

Yes! And I was a staunch Rufus Sewell as Roose supporter, as well. 

Shimp, I'm caught up with you now; I may even be past you. Can't wait to hear more thoughts. :) 

[Avaleigh]

Yes! And I was a staunch Rufus Sewell as Roose supporter, as well. 

Shimp, I'm caught up with you now; I may even be past you. Can't wait to hear more thoughts. :) 

Fingers crossed over here for Rufus being cast as

Euron.

[Triskan]

Team Mads here ! =D

 

But let's not speak of that here, dangerous territory ! ^^

[Delta1212]

Don't worry, Mya, there were at least two fans of New Amsterdam!

Actually, I was familiar with a surprising amount of the cast before I saw them in Game of Thrones. Sean Bean, obviously. Peter Dinklage I discovered in The Station Agent, which is great. Lena Headey and Nicolaj Coster-Waldau I've already mentioned liking in Sarah Connor Chronicles and New Amsterdam respectively.

Jason Momoa I knew from Stargate: Atlantis, although I liked his performance a lot better as Khal Drogo. Harry Lloyd I'd seen before but didn't realize it at first.

Aidan Gillen I'd seen as Tommy Carcetti on The Wire, which I like him in even better even if Littlefinger and Varys have been jockeying for the position of my favorite character pretty consistently since book 1. Pycelle I knew from Star Wars, of course.

And Charles Dance is Charles Dance (who, by the way, talk about knocking it out of the park).

[Avaleigh]

 

Dance as Tywin, McElhatton as Roose, and Dillane as Stannis were all inspired bits of casting IMO.

 

And just to yank my post back on topic:

 

I did get a little chuckle out of his reaction to Jorah Mormont's name.  "Oh yeah, that unpleasant thing I stepped in?  Him.  What about him?"  it made me remember all the times Jorah would say to Dany, "Ned Stark wants my head" like it was somehow Ned's fault that Jorah sold slaves in a land where it was against the law and punishable by death.

Jorah is inclined to sometimes blame other people for his fuck ups. Just in this lastest episode on the show he was trying to blame Tyrion for why he's on the outs with Dany and it's like "I'm sorry, what? You maybe want to re-think that statement?" I was glad that Tyrion checked him.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Avaleigh

[magdalene]

Shimpy, good to see you here. I always wondered  how you managed to hang on unsullied for so long and I can totally understand your frustrations with the TV show. My favorite books character is Jaime Lannister, one of Martin's most fascinating creations. Not the actors fault but the show writing  for Jaime has been atrociously bad and beyond frustrating. When NCW was cast fandom did not consider him "pretty" enough and threw a hissy fit over his nose being too crooked for Jaime. Nikolaj  as Jaime is popular now even though the writing has sabotaged the character at every turn. I'll be curious to read what you will think of Jaime's POVS and some others too.  Happy reading!

Edited June 18, 2015 by magdalene

[Delta1212]

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are a lot of characters with very passionate fanbases, and that inevitably makes for some controversy over exactly how well the show has done adapting them. Whether a particular actor is pretty enough, or occasionally too pretty, to play a character was a common theme pretty much every time a new person was cast, and sometimes you had both positions being argued about the same person.

Some grievances about the adaptation process are more understandable than others.

At the extreme end, there was a minor uproar over the fact that a particular character wasn't eating a peach during a certain scene, and no, I am not making that up.

So I'm sure you were probably expecting it already anyway, but be prepared for lots of opinions. For my own part, I'm going to try to hold off on giving too many of mine until you've read enough for me to justify them one way or another.

[Protar]

If you haven't figured it out by now, there are a lot of characters with very passionate fanbases, and that inevitably makes for some controversy over exactly how well the show has done adapting them. Whether a particular actor is pretty enough, or occasionally too pretty, to play a character was a common theme pretty much every time a new person was cast, and sometimes you had both positions being argued about the same person.

Some grievances about the adaptation process are more understandable than others.

At the extreme end, there was a minor uproar over the fact that a particular character wasn't eating a peach during a certain scene, and no, I am not making that up.

So I'm sure you were probably expecting it already anyway, but be prepared for lots of opinions. For my own part, I'm going to try to hold off on giving too many of mine until you've read enough for me to justify them one way or another.

In defence of the peach: The complaint was that that, along with several other things, served as little memes in the fandom. They would have been so easy to include, so when they weren't it kind of felt like there was a disconnect. You could tell by watching that Benioff and Weiss weren't part of the ASOIAF fandom.

Lines and small moments

like The Peach

, which where unanimously considered iconic by everyone else, apparently weren't considered iconic by the showrunners.

[Avaleigh]

Peachgate was interesting. I didn't have strong feelings about it at the time but feel inclined to agree with those who felt that it would have been so easy to include because, come on, it really would have been.

A tiny one for me that bothers me no end for the same reason is the way that the full title on the show

doesn't include a reference to the Rhoynish people. It's such an easy thing to include and they make this BFD about Dorne so why not include it?

Petty, I know, but it annoys me.

The only thing that annoys me more is

Shireen's hair color.

Things like this might seem small but collectively I think they make a big difference.

[Delta1212]

In defence of the peach: The complaint was that that, along with several other things, served as little memes in the fandom. They would have been so easy to include, so when they weren't it kind of felt like there was a disconnect. You could tell by watching that Benioff and Weiss weren't part of the ASOIAF fandom.

Lines and small moments

like The Peach

, which where unanimously considered iconic by everyone else, apparently weren't considered iconic by the showrunners.

Fair enough point to raise, but even though I was aware of that, I still found the outrage over some of the smaller details a little ridiculous. That said, I'll admit to having far fewer years invested in the source material than most of the fandom at that point since, although I'd been hearing about the series for years, it was finding out about the existence of an upcoming HBO adaptation that finally got me to go out and buy the books (or stay in and buy them, I suppose, since I got the Kindle editions). So while I'm technically a "book first" fan, I came quite late to the fandom and didn't have time to invest myself quite so much in a lot of things.

Frankly, I think I might have been in the optimal viewing position. I knew enough to appreciate all the little details that were included without explanation or comment, but wasn't involved enough yet to really miss the details that got cut. I've had my own disappointments, but since so many of my favorites are secondary ood tertiary characters at best, I was sort of resigned to them being the most likely to get axed or changed in the name of time and budget.

I also tend not to expect very high fidelity to the source material in adaptations, because I've seen enough of them to know that's very rare, so in that respect the show was actually a pleasant surprise, especially in the first season where the level of direct book to screen translation is just absolutely nuts. I've said it before, but every adaptation tends to accumulate some changes to the source material as it goes, yet where we're at right now in the show is where a lot of adaptations start. And frequently, the first season/movie will stay true to the book and then it'll take off in a completely different direction with the second, which absolutely did not happen here.

In many respects, we've been exceedingly lucky with this show, but I don't mean to rehash every single -gate right now. I'll leave the rest until they come up in the text.

[Protar]

Well to quote Tyrion on the faithfulness of adaptations: "There's a difference between what is, and what aught to be." Lots of adaptations are incredibly unfaithful, far worse than Game of Thrones. But that doesn't mean they have to be, or that GoT gets a pass because of the flaws of other adaptations. I do try to judge GoT both as an adaptation, and just as quality television in it's own right. And sadly both those things have been declining together over the years to the point that some of the stuff in Season 5 is some of the worst television I've ever seen (I'm looking at you Dorne - which as a huge Martell fan absolutely crushes me). But yes, with Season 1 at least we got incredibly lucky. And yes this is getting rather ahead of things. So let's leave it at that.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Protar

[Avaleigh]

Fair enough point to raise, but even though I was aware of that, I still found the outrage over some of the smaller details a little ridiculous. That said, I'll admit to having far fewer years invested in the source material than most of the fandom at that point since, although I'd been hearing about the series for years, it was finding out about the existence of an upcoming HBO adaptation that finally got me to go out and buy the books (or stay in and buy them, I suppose, since I got the Kindle editions). So while I'm technically a "book first" fan, I came quite late to the fandom and didn't have time to invest myself quite so much in a lot of things.

Frankly, I think I might have been in the optimal viewing position. I knew enough to appreciate all the little details that were included without explanation or comment, but wasn't involved enough yet to really miss the details that got cut. I've had my own disappointments, but since so many of my favorites are secondary ood tertiary characters at best, I was sort of resigned to them being the most likely to get axed or changed in the name of time and budget.

I also tend not to expect very high fidelity to the source material in adaptations, because I've seen enough of them to know that's very rare, so in that respect the show was actually a pleasant surprise, especially in the first season where the level of direct book to screen translation is just absolutely nuts. I've said it before, but every adaptation tends to accumulate some changes to the source material as it goes, yet where we're at right now in the show is where a lot of adaptations start. And frequently, the first season/movie will stay true to the book and then it'll take off in a completely different direction with the second, which absolutely did not happen here.

In many respects, we've been exceedingly lucky with this show, but I don't mean to rehash every single -gate right now. I'll leave the rest until they come up in the text.

Delta1212, it seems that we started reading roughly around the same time. I read the series sometime in 2009 so I only had a two year wait for the fifth book and was one of those readers who was surprised at how passionate people were not just about what made it into the show but in how they felt about how long it was taking GRRM to complete the series. I've noticed that a lot of people who started reading around the announcement of the show and afterward seem like they're more inclined to be forgiving of the small stuff like

Peachgate -

not to mention the wait for the other books. Meanwhile there are some people who have been reading since the 90s or at least over a decade who are simply happy to get an ending and they really aren't sweating the small stuff. Then there are the people from both sides who object to the vast majority of the changes and think that the showrunners are basically hacks who lucked into a good thing.

I feel like I fall somewhere in the middle. I've bristled at some of the things that have been done on the show when the showrunners "go into business for themselves" but I've also appreciated some of the changes that other viewers have objected to. I've also never been able to get on board with the idea that the showrunners are somehow more disturbing when it comes to depicting rape and violent sexual acts than the source material is.

[Protar]

I have a lot to say on the topic of how the show and the books treats sexual violence and really just female characters in general differently. But that's for the future. I'll just say it doesn't fall in the show's favour. 

 

Anyway, an unrelated question for Stillshimpy or any other Un-unsullied - Have you taken a good look at the maps yet? I know that the Unsullied never took on any material not from within the opening and closing credits, so your experience of Westeros' (and Essos') geography was pretty much brief fly overs. I'll be interested to see how being able to flip back to that map of Westeros at the start of the book helps contextualise the plot.

[Mya Stone]

Hey guys...let's keep this to just things that stillshimpy has read up to. What you're referring to doesn't even happen in this book! ;) Thank you!

[Delta1212]

Hey guys...let's keep this to just things that stillshimpy has read up to. What you're referring to doesn't even happen in this book! ;) Thank you!

Sorry, didn't expect to spin off so much discussion, which was silly of me since I was literally just posting about the act that you could ask a pair of book readers a yes or no question and we'd give you five different answers.

[stillshimpy]

Heh, so I read the spoiler tagged fruit thing (which that has to be vague enough that it doesn't really matter if I just refer to produce openly) and I'll continue with something under spoiler tags, but since I have no flapping clue to what it refers, this could be hilarious wrong-footed:

Rather famously, Stonewall Jackson -- who might have been a bit of a friggin' psycho -- actually, there's little doubt that he was and I apologize to Southerners who might hold him in high esteem, but ...yeah -- anyway, he was famously eating a peach at the end of a battle as he surveyed a field filled with dead men.  His soldiers, Union soldiers, just death and mayhem splayed out before him and the dude was enjoying a fucking peach as he proclaimed it a "glorious day" for the cause.  

 

So until I know otherwise, I guess I'm going to assume that the fruit incident was drawn from history and I'm going to go a bit farther and guess that it had to be

Tywin

, because if that's the source material on that?  Then that's what would make the most sense.  

 

Now you know part of how I resisted reading the books for a long time, magdalene, a lot of things from this show are actually appear to be drawn from history, so I felt like I had a reasonable "okay, if I had to guess, that's from ....." Like the Targaryen practice of almost required incest that had Dany referring to thinking she was always meant to be married to Viserys.  That ought to come from Egyptian history.  Caused all sorts of "oops, genetic traits are a funky-dunky things, and rather than preserving a link to an alleged god....your royalty is club-footed, cleft-palate'd and a variety of other 'expand that gene pool' things".  Sounds like Martin went with the "they were all rendered mad as hatters by the practice eventually" and I'm awaiting an answer on why Rhaegar wasn't married off to a sibling.  

 

Anyway, an unrelated question for Stillshimpy or any other Un-unsullied - Have you taken a good look at the maps yet?

 

Well, almost as soon as I said I'd read the books, someone was kind enough to simply give them to me in the electronic version, so no I haven't actually looked at the maps.  I think I'm probably still the only really vocal member of the Unsullied in here at the moment -- I think we'll see if anyone else is likely to join in after the finale has been fully dissected and people decide whether or not they want to read the books next -- and sadly, you're stuck with the least geographically minded of the lot of them.   I just always assumed that the geography pretty much had to make something resembling sense or else the fans would really raise hell and didn't pay a great deal of attention to it all.  

 

Do you guys think the maps are important to a better understanding of the story?  

 

Mya, I am freaking in mourning that we didn't get Jennifer Ehle as Cat.  I liked the actress who played Cat, but I think Jennifer Ehle would have been amazing and from the description of Cat would have been a better fit.  However, Michelle Fairley did really good work in the part.  

 

And I realized last night I'm currently missing a character from the character pool.  Roz's scene at Winterfell with Tyrion was a no show, so she's a King's Landing character...which makes a ton more freaking sense than what we saw (where it seemed like Roz damn well teleported to King's Landing to become a big city working girl) .   

 

The only geography question that ever bugged the hell out of me was that Winterfell had to be, if not proximate to some body of water, not that damned far from it because some characters leave Winterfell on the King's road and take a long time to get where they are bound, whereas others just get there in the blink of an eye.  So that's something I'm looking forward to seeing cleared up in some capacity, even if it consists of "yeah, they borrow a character for that scene".  

 

I also admit, I'm truly startled that NCW wasn't considered good-looking enough to play Jaime.  He always looked like he was the grown lead-singer of Danish boyband or something.  He's just super pretty and a crooked nose (which I never noticed) would actually make sense on someone who fought a bunch.  

 

Okay, well, I'm going to go read until I have some thoughts about things. 

 

Shimpy, I hope you realize all of us (if I may say so) are waiting for you to reach certain places in the books for your "wait, what??" reactions. Not just GoT but the other 4 also.

 

You know, I kind of figured that there are going to be moments of "WTF?" 

Triskan, I can only imagine the debates, but I am sure they were incredibly spirited.  Here's a piece of speculation from me and we see how it bears out:  I figure the villains in the book pretty much HAVE to have more to them than the ones on the show.   I've complained at such length about them elsewhere, so I'm assuming everyone knows, one of my chief complaints is that the monsters in the tale are very repetitive and don't really read as human beings, or interesting characters.   You just can't populate a bunch of novels with one-note boogeymen and sustain interest.  

 

I have one question that involves the future and I'm bracing myself for the answer:  Is this next book expected to be the final book in the series (god, please say "yes", please say "yes") because although I stated this a long time ago, I'm sure no one but me remembers it:  A big part of the reason that I refused to read an ongoing series is I used to date a guy who was SUPER into the Wheel of Time series by Jordan.  I didn't date him for long, but it was right around one the book releases and I got to know a bunch of Jordan fans.  So I've very leery of fantasy series that are unfinished.   

 

If there is a soul in here who doesn't get the reference:  I try not to touch a book series until the end is nigh for it, because Robert Jordan died before he completed that series and another author continued it.  This led to complaining at such length, and such volume, that if you pause on a clear day and listen to the stillness, you can hear the murmur of it just below the wind:  The Winds of Whinging Endlessly.  

And sixty seven Jordan fans just geared up to Kick.My.Ass but please, I actually don't mean anything against fantasy fans.  The poor series is like a case study in narrative bloat and "wrap it up, wordsmith, wrap it up already" life lessons. 

[Delta1212]

Heh, the Robert Jordan comparison has the potential to open up a whole can of worms, because don't think that hasn't come up for years. I actually feel bad for GRRM both because he has people actively telling him they hope he doesn't die before finishing like Robert Jordan, and because he and Jordan were apparently friends.

In answer to your question, there is supposed to be one more book after this next one. So not quite meeting your highest hopes, but the next closest thing to it, I guess.

Editing this in above the below disclaimer so the shimpy-safe stuff is all in one section: I don't think the maps are absolutely essential, but they can be helpful. I rarely look at maps, and I spent pretty much the entirety of the first book or two with my mental image of the 7 Kingdoms almost perfectly reversed from East to West. A bunch of things did make a bit more sense once I actually looked at a map, but it wasn't anything I ever worried about up to that point.

For non-shimpy eyes only:

Let's not spoil Roz's non-existence quite yet, right?

Edited June 18, 2015 by Delta1212

[Protar]

There are supposed to be two more books after Dance with Dragons which is currently the latest one. Hopefully Martin gets out book 6 - The Winds of Winter, early 2016. And then hopefully the ending to the series will be a lot quicker to write so we can get this all wrapped up by 2018/19. 

 

On maps: I wouldn't say it's vital to look at them. But it's certainly helpful when the War of Five Kings starts and people are talking about sending armies to this region, and calling in forces from that. And as you're supposed to have the maps with you, I wouldn't consider it a spoiler. So I'd look up some maps if I were you. I could link some here if you don't want to trawl out into the internet (which is dark and full of spoilers). 

[Delta1212]

I didn't think there were, but I just rewatched it to make sure there were no spoilers, and there aren't. I figured this would be a good opportunity to link this particular video:

[Haleth]

^  Awesome.

For non-shimpy eyes only:

Let's not spoil Roz's non-existence quite yet, right?

Yeah, that's what I mean by a "wait, what??" revelation.

 

There are supposed to be two more books after Dance with Dragons which is currently the latest one. Hopefully Martin gets out book 6 - The Winds of Winter, early 2016. And then hopefully the ending to the series will be a lot quicker to write so we can get this all wrapped up by 2018/19. 

2018?  HAHAHA!  Good one!

Edited June 18, 2015 by Haleth

[Protar]

2018?  HAHAHA!  Good one!

 

I'm going to remain optimistic. He managed to get Clash out two years after AGoT, and Storm two years after Clash. Maybe once he gets to the climax, he'll be able to get back to that sort of pace. I think 2020 is probably a more reasonable guess. But I think 2018/19 is possible.

[stillshimpy]

Heh, the Robert Jordan comparison has the potential to open up a whole can of worms, because don't think that hasn't come up for years. I actually feel bad for GRRM both because he has people actively telling him they hope he doesn't die before finishing like Robert Jordan, and because he and Jordan were apparently friends.

 

Oh man, that actually has to suck wildly.  Great Youtube video and I even got one of the references.  I am a Neil Gaiman fan so I've long been familiar with his great blog post (and entirely agree with it) "Look, George R. R. Martin is not your bitch."  Hehehe.  I liked NG even more after that post.  

 

So please understand, I'm not actually aiming at Martin on that, and I had braced myself because if an author goes for 6 books, then they are far more likely to end on 7 than 6.   It was more that whenever I'm anywhere near a Jordan fan and someone brings up waiting for any kind of book, I do the brave (and warranted ) thing and boogey the hell in the other direction. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Delta1212]

Oh man, that actually hast to suck wildly. Great Youtube video and even got one of the references. I am a Neil Gaiman fan so I've long been familiar with his great blog post (and entirely agree with it) "Look, George R. R. Martin is not your bitch." Hehehe. I liked NG even more after that post.

So please understand, I'm not actually aiming at Martin on that, and I had braced myself because if an author goes for 6 books, then they are far more likely to end on 7 than 6.

Hee, George's original idea was to write a trilogy with the first book ending at the Red Wedding, which, yeah, clearly that didn't happen.

I'm thinking he'll try to stick to the 7 books though, because he's expressed his liking for that number in a series about the 7 Kingdoms, with the faith of the Seven, and so on.

And even though he's expressed frustration with the attitude of some fans toward his writing pace/likelihood of being able to finish the story, he seems to have a sense of humor about that particular video, since he did a bit with the group where they were performing the song live and he came out on stage at the end and smashed their guitar in "anger."

[Triskan]

2018 is quite optimistic... at best we'll get "A Dream of Spring" in 2021, I'd say.

 

And Shimpy, I really encourage you to take a good look at the maps ! ;)

(Well, I'm a map lover myself, so maybe that's not the most objective opinion out there).

 

Here are the most beautiful ones : The Lands of Ice and Fire collection... beautiful work !  http://www.fantasticmaps.com/the-lands-of-ice-and-fire/

 

EDIT : Just do not take a close look at the "Journeys" one... it's spoilery ! (yeah, even after you've seen the season 5 finale, cause there are still some surprises left for you on that map).

Edited June 18, 2015 by Triskan

[Protar]

The Journey Map is right at the bottom on that page so you can avoid it easily Shimpy. Those maps are pretty but the writing is pretty small. Here are some somewhat plainer ones, that are clearer:

 

The North: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/c/cd/The_North2.jpg

The South: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/9/93/The_south_AGOT_map.png/400px-The_south_AGOT_map.png

 

ETA:

 

The Free Cities: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/f/f1/The_free_cities_Adwd_map.jpg/400px-The_free_cities_Adwd_map.jpg

Slaver's Bay: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/e/e5/Valyria_ASOS_map.png/400px-Valyria_ASOS_map.png

Edited June 18, 2015 by Protar

[Avaleigh]

I think the maps are helpful if for no other reason to at least to get a better sense of time and traveling. 

[benteen]

2018 is quite optimistic... at best we'll get "A Dream of Spring" in 2021, I'd say.

 

And Shimpy, I really encourage you to take a good look at the maps ! ;)

(Well, I'm a map lover myself, so maybe that's not the most objective opinion out there).

 

Here are the most beautiful ones : The Lands of Ice and Fire collection... beautiful work !  http://www.fantasticmaps.com/the-lands-of-ice-and-fire/

 

EDIT : Just do not take a close look at the "Journeys" one... it's spoilery ! (yeah, even after you've seen the season 5 finale, cause there are still some surprises left for you on that map).

 

Yeah, I would say at least 2021 for A Dream of Spring.

[benteen]

Another example of a minor book to show change that made no sense to me.  This is from a later book...

 

EDIT: Sorry about that.

Edited June 18, 2015 by benteen

[Delta1212]

Another example of a minor book to show change that made no sense to me. This is from a later book...

In the books, Jon kneels before Tormund, thinking that he is Mance. But we soon find out that Mance is actually the guy in the background playing the lute. On the show, the introduction is much the same except Mance isn't playing a lute. It's a small thing but by not adding that little detail, the show decided to introduce Mance in a generic way. Why not show that he plays the lute? It adds a little dimension to the characters and is an off-beat, unexpected way to introduce him.

I sometimes think the show is too afraid to give these kind of details and quirks to the characters. Show Tormund isn't nearly as funny as Book Tormund for instance.P>

I think we should probably save that for when we get there. Don't want to spoil shimpy on stuff, even if they did do it in the show.

Edit: Ditto vvv

Edited June 18, 2015 by Delta1212

[Protar]

Yep, let's stick to Game of Thrones for now. My instinct is to be a massive tease, but I've got to resist. 

[Athena]

Yes, let's hold off on anymore spoiler taggable information and stick to the discussion of GoT at hand. Shimpy will get to it eventually now she's become one of us. :)

 

What chapters are you on? Do you feel like you want to rush through the book? Do you enjoy the pacing?

[stillshimpy]

Well, I'm reading on a Kindle, so I get percentages of the book more easily than I do pages.  So I'm 30% of the way through and thus far I've actually been struck mainly by how much like the series it actually is.  Now, there was that wonderful passage about Bran's vision/dream that was lot more interesting than Bran's long journey into the crypt to find out things the viewing audience already knew.  

 

I (of course) gasped in dismay when it turned out to be Benjen uttering the series hallmark of doom, "We'll speak when I return..." so Timjen is a goner, I take it.  He'll probably show up as Zomboni looming over Jon at some point in a subsequent book.  

 

I have to admit, I'm digging that White Walkers are called The Others and that "To the Others with you" and the "The Others can have you" or words to that end seem to indicate things like "You're utterly mad" and "Fuuuuuckkkkkk you!"  

 

It's nice that Cat was a little less "I trust Petyr as a brother, Ned" thereby seemingly like she was sealing his doom.  

 

Whereas Jorah description is nothing like Jorah in the series -- I personally think the actor who plays Jorah is really pretty darned handsome, if weathered -- it does help explain why Dany ends up so horrified that he will (presumably still) express some sort of hope for a future with her and her reaction will be beyond horrified.  

 

Yoren being literally lousy, twisted and smelly ...kind of fits with what I thought he'd likely be like anyway, I suppose. Although I hadn't thought to add details like lice when looking at the actor.  I did think, "Bet they all smell just delightful " long before this.  Renly's description was fun to read and he doesn't quite match up with the non-entity I personally found Renly to be in the first season.  

 

I was also really freaking surprised that Stannis had apparently just left for Dragstone, which was the biggest change thus far.  Other than some composite work with combining characters to deliver essentially the same exposition.  

 

I thought the TV series did some interesting (what turned out to be)  foreshadowing (not in the book) when Bran's wolf growled at Theon rather than all three remaining wolves at Winterfell nearly making a Milkbone out of Tyrion (that one really surprised me, although I don't know why it did...since Lannister have a way of doing in Direwolves...even if Tyrion doesn't).  

 

Cersei and Jaime are still complete non-entities other than what the series already told me about them and the biggest "Huh...okay, that explains something..." was Dany's dreams about dragons.  In the first season I wasn't sure why there were (it turned out to be bookwalkers) in the unspoiled spec thread talking about how it was so obvious the eggs would hatch.   From the books? Yes.  Just from the TV series...not quite so much until a bit later.  

 

I can now understand why Sansa and Arya are a bit polarizing.  The way it is depicted seems to really invite choosing one side or the other, and poor Arya is so shattered after Micah's death.  That's the one thing I don't think the series conveyed as plainly as the book did.  That she blamed herself for Micah and also felt guilty about Lady.  Lady's death made me cry, by the way, which it didn't in the series.  Lady was the most trusting eh?  Oh poor Sansa and what that says about her.  It still doesn't render her POV particularly interesting, but right now I'm standing firm on liking all Starks. 

 

I really appreciate that the book made it so plainly obvious how Cat had gotten to King's Landing so quickly. 

 

Viserys pretty quickly stop seeming dangerously nuts as much as he seems delusional and closer to ridiculous once Dany no longer has to fear his "I'm going to have a violent temper tantrum on your person, while babbling about dragons" bullshit.  

 

It's clear that Martin really excels at world-building, which is such a key part of fantasy novels and I've already picked up so more information about the various lands and people.  Nothing that quite made say "Aha! Oh ho!  Now I have new insight" as much as "Now I have more info..."  and I am cracking up over how much the book series has gone to town drumming in the "Lyanna was willful..." "Ned could hear her pleading voice...." "Robert was pro Infanticide for all things Targaryen" ....and Robert's character suffers a little bit , but mostly I've been fairly impressed with how faithful to the books the first season seems to have been. 

 

Except...what the fuck? Hodor is the only word that Walder-great-grandson-of-Nan knows as opposed to his actual name?  I can't tell if I hope that Hodor will turn out to be some key thing, "Hodor! Hodor I say unto thee and may the seven faces of the god smite you!" *pfffftttt  zzzzttt....(*) * go the enemies of the realm* or what, but that was the biggest, "Okay, different..." as was learning that apparently it isn't "the seven" as in "seven different gods, one for every occasion and mood...just check your divinity ring for the god that is needed and pray your arse off" it's "seven faces of THE god" which....I don't know if that will prove key or not.  

 

At present, I'm wondering, "Wait...where the fuck is Sam?!?" but my phone rang just as I was reading, "Jon was...(doing something with a sword, as is his way) when the new recruit arrived..." so expect that ThERE is Sam.  

 

Cool maps, some of those are truly beautiful :-)  It's interesting to get a look at the geography in that it gives me a better sense of scale....and caused me to actually make a real-live hissing sound, like I'd morphed into an ill-tempered cat -- when I saw the fucking Dreadfort on there.  

 

But so far, it's very much -- if not exactly the same -- similar to the tale I've already been told, except that I do feel like the TV series kept the "there be magicks loose int he lands" thing under wraps for a lot longer, because Ice (hell, named sword) was referred to as being made of folded steel and spells.  Apparently dragonbones are black ...and I'm really glad not to be hanging out with the Dothraki (which remains the same from the series...I like beds, showers and I can't even imagine how hungry I'd have to be before I'd be all "oh yes, horse sounds scrumptious, I hope there's enough for seconds..." but I can say with conviction that it is hungrier than I've ever been in this life.  

 

Onwards I ride, presumably towards saying, "Oh! There's Sam.  Try to stay upright, Sam."    

 

And...I was wicked levels of pissed that it was Winterfell's ancient library that was set on fire :-) 

 

Edit:  Also, I do want to just go plowing through the book, but the Wrathful and Ironic Appliance gods aided me in prolonging my reading pleasure by walloping my household with an irony curse.  A fridge that decided it was bored with chilling things, and decided to heat them to the melting point.  Oh how Wildlings must envy me....if not the two pounds of melted butter I had to clean from....oh pretty much everything (and the dogs, who really thought a puddle of melted butter was like...THE BEST THING EVER).  

 

Thanks, gods of irony and fuckery! 

Edited June 18, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Avaleigh]

I felt the same way when reading about the fire in the library. 

 

What did you think of Ned's hard ass parenting telling Catelyn that Rickon is already three so he needs to learn to face his fears and stuff?

 

Are you happy the windowless (?!) wheelhouse didn't make it into the show? ;-)

 

What did you think of Sansa's date with Joffrey? 

 

Any thoughts on how Septa Mordane's favoritism between the girls is toned down for the show?