S08.E21: Live Top 8 Performances

[Padma]

The phrase WGWG always seems negative to me because it comes from Idol and is used to indicate "same old, same old" and be dismissive of singers just because they happen to also play guitar.

 

I know people got tired of those guys advancing farther than some (without guitars) whose singing they liked better, but it always seemed like an unpleasant phrase (esp. the "white" part, because most of Idol's guys were white anyway. So...big deal.)

 

Maybe I'm lucky to have missed so many seasons of "Idol", but I'm still -glad- when I see a singer with his (or her) guitar.  It makes watching them a lot more interesting to me most of the time--plus, seems really, really smart since (on either show) it gives them an option of avoiding any other accompaniment or arrangement that the show wants to stick them with.

 

Imo, Sawyer and Joshua would be -more- boring without their guitars, not less. I wish more women did the same thing--either piano or guitar, it wouldn't matter to me but I think people who dislike singers with guitars (Why?) would be even more bored by WGWP .

[mercfan3]

Oh, WGWG is definitely negative on Idol. 

 

Because the problem with a great majority of the WGWG's on Idol is they can't sing. And when they "Change up" a song, they do it because they can't sing half of the notes of the actual melody. 

 

That's just not the case with The Voice WGWGs. (probably because blind auditions exist). No one would ever say that Will Champlain, James Wolpert etc..can't sing. Joshua is more limited, but he still stays on pitch..which again is different from the Idol WGWG. 

 

Now, I would hate to see The Voice go down the same road as Idol, where that contestant wins every year. But I don't think it will. Matt was the strongest one they've ever had, and he still didn't win because Craig was a better singer, IMO. (Chris was too, but song choice..) 

 

edit: I want to touch on The White part. First of all..they were all white (and if they weren't, they weren't given that same benefit.) But personally, the whole thing irked me because it legit turned into "white male privilege" on idol. Everyone else had to be 10X better to have about a five percent chance of beating that contestant. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by mercfan3

[FormerMod-a1]

Sorry, I was being facetious.  I know what WGWG stands for.  It just seems like people are being selective when using this term.  Like Sawyer is somehow not a WGWG and Joshua and Corey are?  

 

I grouped them all together in my previous post.   

[photo fox]

I think it's worth noting that this isn't Idol, and many people here (including myself) have never seen that show.

 

It's probably also worth noting that there's a Voice vs. idol topic in this very forum.  ;-)

Edited April 29, 2015 by photo fox
added link

[mercfan3]

That's true, but it's where the WGWG name comes from, and that type of thing is going to be carried from one show to another. 

 

I think it's not really a problem for The Voice, like it became a problem for Idol. But when people bring up the term, and why it's negative, the explanation starts with Idol. 

[Noreaster]

I grouped them all together in my previous post.   

I wasn't trying to single out any post. More noticing a general uptick in the WGWG usage. My impression is it was becoming shorthand for "white males that I don't like".  Especially when some are selectively applying it.

[viajero]

If there is any trend on The Voice, it´s that if a guy wins, he's inevitably a bland inoffensive older experienced contestant with cute kids who's struggled for years to make it in the business.  Sawyer would break this pattern.

[MaryPatShelby]

Can anyone tell me what the first group song was, before they segued into "Wake Me Up"? I really liked it, didn't recognize it, and Shazam was not helpful.

[rollerblade]

Wiki has it listed as Avicii's Hey Brother.

[viajero]

I always found it curious that a Swedish DJ known for his electronic dance tunes would write that particular song and produce this Vietnam era video to go with it

 

[PhD-Purgatory15]

Also, Hey Brother's uncredited (most places) vocal is from Dan Tyminski of O Brother Where Art Thou fame, and he's the guitarist for Allison Kraus & Union Station...IMO it's one of the more interesting "fusion" songs of the last couple of years.

[TheGreenKnight]

edit: I want to touch on The White part. First of all..they were all white (and if they weren't, they weren't given that same benefit.) But personally, the whole thing irked me because it legit turned into "white male privilege" on idol. Everyone else had to be 10X better to have about a five percent chance of beating that contestant. 

This is the main idea I have in mind when I use the term WGWG. Most of the time, a white guy who is an average singer or worse, but goes farther than deserved because he's white and/or attractive (usually to older viewers) and/or country-leaning. For instance, this week when Corey nearly beat India in the vote--in what world is he as talented as she is? He's not even an especially great example of a country singer, but he is a cute, white guy. I thought Josh deserved to win the year he was on, but I didn't see anything special in any of the three white guys that were on this show's finale last year. Sawyer is at least talented, but he gets it easier than other talented contestants because he appeals to white, Southern viewers. He's basically catnip for the audiences that vote for these shows.

[Noreaster]

If there is any trend on The Voice, it´s that if a guy wins, he's inevitably a bland inoffensive older experienced contestant with cute kids who's struggled for years to make it in the business.  Sawyer would break this pattern.

The trend is professionals, male or female, typically win.  Danielle was the exception.  Sawyer would be more like Danielle.

 

Descriptors like bland and inoffensive are subjective of course.  Perhaps a reflection of a preference toward female voices?

[Dee]

I don't mind the term WGWG.

 

If only because it semantically evens the playing field on shows like Idol and The Voice, where "DIVA", has become dismissive shorthand for Black women with big voices.

[mercfan3]

The trend is professionals, male or female, typically win.  Danielle was the exception.  Sawyer would be more like Danielle.

 

Descriptors like bland and inoffensive are subjective of course.  Perhaps a reflection of a preference toward female voices?

 

Of all the contestants, Sawyer reminds me of Danielle. 

 

Clearly extremely talented, but pretty green. (Kind of wide eyed and innocent.) They both are in genres that the voting audiences tend to prefer. He hasn't been amazing, but he's been consistently good every week like she was. Yes, Danielle had a clear pitch perfect voice, and Sawyer has an interesting tone and emotes better than she does, but even still..there's so much potential in both of them.

 

And they have similar stage presence issues (Kind of not knowing what to do with themselves. Sawyer uses the guitar to hide it some, but it's evident that he's uncomfortable with it.) 

 

It's just Sawyer doesn't have two other great contestants in the same genre as he is (like Danielle had in Amber and The Swons) nor does he have a contestant that is performing extremely well every week while simultaneously having his/her personality being showcased in a way that the audience will gravitate too (Michelle)..so he's dominating even more than she did. 

[DeLurker]

I don't mind the term WGWG.

 

If only because it semantically evens the playing field on shows like Idol and The Voice, where "DIVA", has become dismissive shorthand for Black women with big voices.

I've yet to see anyone out diva Christina.  She's been quite restrained this season, but I'm thinking she'd take'em to school.

[Padma]

To me, "WGWG" (because of its origins) is often used on other shows as shorthand for "untalented white guy who advances because of his good/cute looks, while hiding his lack of talent behind a guitar." That really bugs me because we see so many guys on singing competitions (including Idol) who -are- talented, but get marginalized anyway by people who just don't like them as WGWG.

 

Since both Sawyer and Joshua seem to be talented as singers, I think it doesn't make any sense to just "group them together" with each other and with every other "white" guy who's played guitar while singing.  I mean, Elvis Presley, Paul McCartney, James Taylor... yes, all "WGWG". So...?

Edited April 30, 2015 by Padma

[ToxicUnicorn]

I do not like that "Hey Brother" song.  It's like nails on a chalkboard.

 

Kimberly and Hannah most consistently entertain me.  The boys are boring.  India has no restraint, which makes me think she has no taste whatsoever.  Maybe she can't hear herself.  Koryn and Meghan wear me out.  At least when Jacquie Lee poured everything she had in the song, she still seemed as though she could calm down in real life.  Koryn and Meghan - more powerful singers, to be sure, but I would be afraid to be stuck in an elevator with either of them.

[buttersister]

I'm afraid to be stuck with Koryn for another week. Ease up, Pharrell, put it into the coaching not the cheerleading.

[Guest]

This is the main idea I have in mind when I use the term WGWG. Most of the time, a white guy who is an average singer or worse, but goes farther than deserved because he's white and/or attractive (usually to older viewers) and/or country-leaning. For instance, this week when Corey nearly beat India in the vote--in what world is he as talented as she is? He's not even an especially great example of a country singer, but he is a cute, white guy. I thought Josh deserved to win the year he was on, but I didn't see anything special in any of the three white guys that were on this show's finale last year. Sawyer is at least talented, but he gets it easier than other talented contestants because he appeals to white, Southern viewers. He's basically catnip for the audiences that vote for these shows.

That's speculation and opinion.  A lot of people like the singer they like, and it's not because he's cute or white or has a guitar.  I liked all the AI WGWG's better than their competition and I'm not a racist or a cougar or country leaning.  

[TheGreenKnight]

It's definitely not speculation when you consider how many white guys have won singing competitions compared to any other type of singer. As far as opinion goes, there is a point where things are objective. When someone has a greater vocal range, they are objectively a better singer than someone who is limited, regardless of style or genre.

[Guest]

It's definitely not speculation when you consider how many white guys have won singing competitions compared to any other type of singer. As far as opinion goes, there is a point where things are objective. When someone has a greater vocal range, they are objectively a better singer than someone who is limited, regardless of style or genre.

Do you really think the person with the greatest vocal range is what they're going for as winner?  Why have a show at all?  Software can tell them who has the broadest range.  What about pitch, tone, emotion, their look, their personality, timing, musicality, creativity, delivery, enunciation, genre, style, song choice and all the other factors that go into making people like a singer and buy their music?  

 

If range was our only or even main criteria, we would all just listen to computer generated notes.  Or Mariah Carey from 10 years ago.  

 

I think more WGWGs have won because the music they make is more mainstream in America overall.  And the show has had some good ones.  Maybe if they had some good hip hip or rap artists more black people would win, but they only take bland R&B/gospel/belter type black singers, for the most part.  The show is somewhat designed to appeal to mainstream, middle America and not put anyone off by being 'too ethnic' or having too many songs or genres middle America doesn't usually hear.  In my opinion.  

 

If you look at the top selling artists in recent decades in the US, they're mostly white.  12 of the last 15 years have had white top sellers.  So Idol is more diverse than Billboard, with 4 of 13 winners being black or mixed race.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_by_year_in_the_United_States

Edited May 9, 2015 by Guest

[TheGreenKnight]

In other words, mainstream, middle America = white.

As far as what they're going for, I'd assume since it is a singing contest, being able to sing well would take some priority. Pitch, tone, and musicality are other points where it's easy to rank singers objectively. And this would be assuming most WGWGs have good pitch, musicality, etc., when most of them don't--and those contestants are the ones the name applies to, imo.

[Guest]

In other words, mainstream, middle America = white. As far as what they're going for, I'd assume since it is a singing contest, being able to sing well would take some priority. Pitch, tone, and musicality are other points where it's easy to rank singers objectively. And this would be assuming most WGWGs have good pitch, musicality, etc., when most of them don't--and those contestants are the ones the name applies to, imo.

The majority ethnicity in America right now is white.  In 50 years, it'll be hispanic.  But right now the average AI viewer is white, the average music buyer is white.  

 

Singing well is subjective.  You might like singers who the majority don't prefer but that doesn't make you right and them wrong.  How well anyone sings is kind of beside the point.  Some of the top selling artists don't sing that well at all.  

[TheGreenKnight]

Singing well is subjective.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I really don't think so. Having a larger range, being on key, having good pitch, playing an instrument well, power, maintaining notes, etc. isn't subjective. Personality, likeability, genre, and "emotion" on the other hand comes down to personal feelings and preferences, but it doesn't change how well they can or can't sing. Either way, arguing over it is going nowhere, because my opinion won't change.

Edited May 10, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[Guest]

I just think it's offensive to imply to others that they only liked white male contestants because they're racist cougars with no musical taste.  I'm not trying to change your opinion, just maybe have that particular insult tossed around less in the future.  

[mercfan3]

It's just incredibly frustrating to be on the other side of it. 

 

Yes, people are allowed to like what they like, and assuming it's for cougar reasons isn't fair.

 

But when lesser talented (and that is primarily objective) contestants continuously beat out more talented contestants. And the lesser talented happens to be white and male, and the more talented happens to be either female a minority or both..questioning of what's going on is fair. 

 

Now, that really hasn't been a problem with The Voice. (It was clearly an issue with American Idol.) Kim and Mia's elimination was really unfortunate and they went before they should have. And of course we can talk about a few contestants where that might have been the case with (maybe Judith and Sarah, although personally I wouldn't have had them going much further.) Last season, the three white guys happened to be deserving. This season, Sawyer's a wunderkind in the same way that Danielle was. 

 

But that's not really a pattern, and we've had two black winners, a mixed winner, three women to four men (relatively even) and plenty of gay contestants in the finale. The show has shown itself to be accepting of diversity and until that changes, I won't get nervous.