All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Mrsmaul2021]

 

Quote

 

Then, when she ran off to grab her brother when Gamma died; she stood there, hand out, waiting for Carter to hand her the prescriptions she had demanded and probably a credit card, too and seemed utterly stunned that Carter didn't want to go on her wild goose chase with her; instead wanting to be with his grieving family.

 

 

 

No, she got the call from her mentally ill brother whom she hasn't heard from in months, yes she asked Carter for the prescripts but she did not ask him to join her.  It was the  contrary, he was upset because she went to get her brother instead of staying and holding his hand.  She didn't ask him for money either 

 

Quote

 

Carter also paid for her last year of med school because Abby, unlike every other med student ever, had such poor credit that she couldn't get a student loan.  What a prize she was!

 

 

 

Carter went behind her back and paid the BALANCE of her medical tuition off, he did not pay the entire year. She was back in med school before he even came back to Chicago, Carter was still in Africa.  she had a loan co signed by Richard and was paying the balance off herself.  Just FYI

 

 

 

I get people do not like characters but a complete history revision is not needed 

Edited May 8 by Mrsmaul2021

[Notabug]

8 minutes ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

No, she got the call from her mentally ill brother whom she hasn't heard from in months, yes she asked Carter for the prescripts but she did not ask him to join her.  It was the  contrary, he was upset because she went to get her brother instead of staying and holding his hand.  She didn't ask him for money either 

 

Carter went behind her back and paid the BALANCE of her medical tuition off, he did not pay the entire year. She was back in med school before he even came back to Chicago, Carter was still in Africa.  she had a loan co signed by Richard and was paying the balance off herself.  Just FYI

 

 

 

I get people do not like characters but a complete history revision is not needed 

We all see the show through our own eyes.  When Carter told Abby his grandmother had died, she basically ignored him; because her problems were always the priority in their relationship.  She immediately changed the subject to talk about flights to BFE so she could drag her brother back to Chicago (an incredibly stupid idea for a medical professional, especially one like Abby who'd already nearly killed her mother trying to do the same thing a couple years earlier).  Abby looked genuinely shocked when Carter showed no interest in going with her; instead telling her his father was coming and he would be with him.  I believe Carter even sarcastically commented that Gamma would still be dead whenever Abby got back in response to her complete lack of empathy for his grief. How dare he not drop everything to come with her!   Considering Abby's constant whining and complaining about her lack of funds and her complete lack of objection whenever Carter or Luka stepped in and paid her way; I don't think it was all on Carter that he paid her way; she seemed to think it was her due.  We never saw her object or try to pay him back or otherwise treat her boytoys as financial equals.  I also seem to recall that Abby grabbed some of Carter's clothes to take to her brother, I certainly do not recall a scene where she asked Carter if it was ok.  Sorry if I missed it.  

Carter paid whatever it was that Abby owed for med school and we certainly never saw her refuse the gift or tell the med school to send it back.  Also, if she had student loans, those were meant to pay tuition.  If she wasn't using her loan money to pay for school, she was defrauding the lenders.  That's a crime and her butt would've been in jail had that been the case. She also would've had to pay the money back immediately upon dropping out.  No way she had student loan money at that point.  The real question is what the heck she did with the loan money instead of paying her tuition if she was indeed still getting it.  For some reason, I think she'd been unable to get further loan money and was going to drop out of med school because of it.  Which calls into question how terrible her credit must've been at that point.  No wonder she needed Carter to pay for everything always.

I also understand that people like characters and want to defend them no matter what; but all we can go by is what we saw on screen.  And what I saw onscreen was Abby stepping aside and expecting the men in her life to pick up the tab for her, always.

[Mrsmaul2021]

29 minutes ago, Notabug said:

We all see the show through our own eyes.  When Carter told Abby his grandmother had died, she basically ignored him; because her problems were always the priority in their relationship.  She immediately changed the subject to talk about flights to BFE so she could drag her brother back to Chicago (an incredibly stupid idea for a medical professional, especially one like Abby who'd already nearly killed her mother trying to do the same thing a couple years earlier).  Abby looked genuinely shocked when Carter showed no interest in going with her; instead telling her his father was coming and he would be with him.  I believe Carter even sarcastically commented that Gamma would still be dead whenever Abby got back in response to her complete lack of empathy for his grief. How dare he not drop everything to come with her!   Considering Abby's constant whining and complaining about her lack of funds and her complete lack of objection whenever Carter or Luka stepped in and paid her way; I don't think it was all on Carter that he paid her way; she seemed to think it was her due.  We never saw her object or try to pay him back or otherwise treat her boytoys as financial equals.  I also seem to recall that Abby grabbed some of Carter's clothes to take to her brother, I certainly do not recall a scene where she asked Carter if it was ok.  Sorry if I missed it.  

Carter paid whatever it was that Abby owed for med school and we certainly never saw her refuse the gift or tell the med school to send it back.  Also, if she had student loans, those were meant to pay tuition.  If she wasn't using her loan money to pay for school, she was defrauding the lenders.  That's a crime and her butt would've been in jail had that been the case. She also would've had to pay the money back immediately upon dropping out.  No way she had student loan money at that point.  The real question is what the heck she did with the loan money instead of paying her tuition if she was indeed still getting it.  For some reason, I think she'd been unable to get further loan money and was going to drop out of med school because of it.  Which calls into question how terrible her credit must've been at that point.  No wonder she needed Carter to pay for everything always.

I also understand that people like characters and want to defend them no matter what; but all we can go by is what we saw on screen.  And what I saw onscreen was Abby stepping aside and expecting the men in her life to pick up the tab for her, always.

 

No, No. I base my opinion on what I have SEEN. I've binged the show too much.  And what do you mean she didn't refuse Carter paying off her balance? She didn't know until AFTER the fact. It was done. Things like that is unfair to say Abby asked for it. True some thing are subjective but the incidents you mentioned, they were cut and dry and not even up for interpretation.  No shade, no disrespect 

 

 

Edited May 8 by Mrsmaul2021

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

No, No. I base my opinion on what I have SEEN. I've binged the show too much.  And what do you mean she didn't refuse Carter paying off her balance? She didn't know until AFTER the fact. It was done. Things like that is unfair to say Abby asked for it. True some thing are subjective but the incidents you mentioned, they were cut and dry and not even up for interpretation.  No shade, no disrespect 

 

 

Abby didn't find out until after it was done, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have either paid him back or withdrawn from med school and gotten a refund on tuition if she didn't want to accept his gift.  She did neither.  Carter paying her tuition was not an irreversible act that she couldn't have altered had she been so inclined.  Just because she knew Carter had plenty of money and wouldn't miss the dough doesn't mean she had no choice but to accept it.

I base my opinions on what I've seen, too.  We just see things through different lenses.

[Mrsmaul2021]

14 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Abby didn't find out until after it was done, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have either paid him back or withdrawn from med school and gotten a refund on tuition if she didn't want to accept his gift.  She did neither.  Carter paying her tuition was not an irreversible act that she couldn't have altered had she been so inclined.  Just because she knew Carter had plenty of money and wouldn't miss the dough doesn't mean she had no choice but to accept it.

I base my opinions on what I've seen, too.  We just see things through different lenses.

 

 

He paid off the BALANCE, that balance could have been $1000. You know she had busted credit, who says she didn't pay him back subsequently? 

Edited May 8 by Mrsmaul2021

[Notabug]

47 minutes ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

 

He paid off the BALANCE, that balance could have been $1000. You know she had busted credit, who says she didn't pay him back subsequently? 

Because, if she had, the show would've told us.  There was no other character with nearly as much screentime or more detail and attention paid to the minutiae of their daily life than Abby.  Just like every patient/coworker/passerby had to comment on how beautiful, sexy, smart, wonderful Abby was; had Abby actually paid Carter back, the show would've devoted multiple scenes to people praising Abby for doing so.

[Mrsmaul2021]

4 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Because, if she had, the show would've told us.  There was no other character with nearly as much screentime or more detail and attention paid to the minutiae of their daily life than Abby.  Just like every patient/coworker/passerby had to comment on how beautiful, sexy, smart, wonderful Abby was; had Abby actually paid Carter back, the show would've devoted multiple scenes to people praising Abby for doing so.

 

 

Meh, not necessarily,  she could have paid him back after she became an attending, she could have donated to the Carter center, anything.  It seems after their breakup the show barely had them associate. 

[Ceindreadh]

Back in the day I wrote a fanfic with the plot that Abby was after Carter's money.  I got so many flames from Abby fans.  It was glorious! 

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Ceindreadh said:

Back in the day I wrote a fanfic with the plot that Abby was after Carter's money.  I got so many flames from Abby fans.  It was glorious! 

I'm almost afraid to say how much I loved Carol but not that afraid.

[Olis93]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm almost afraid to say how much I loved Carol but not that afraid.

I loved Carol too. She was one of my favorites of the original cast and the seasons with her were the shows best IMO.

[andidante]

4 hours ago, Olis93 said:

I loved Carol too. She was one of my favorites of the original cast and the seasons with her were the shows best IMO.

Me too! I loved her and Doug together.

[peacheslatour]

4 hours ago, Olis93 said:

I loved Carol too. She was one of my favorites of the original cast and the seasons with her were the shows best IMO.

I also loved her little house under the El. Remember the night she saw the kangaroo?

[Notabug]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I also loved her little house under the El. Remember the night she saw the kangaroo?

That house was adorable once she fixed it up.  

[peacheslatour]

23 minutes ago, Notabug said:

That house was adorable once she fixed it up.  

I loved it when they found the fireplace behind the wall. The place was so cozy.

Edited May 9 by peacheslatour

[Mrsmaul2021]

On 5/8/2025 at 4:17 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm almost afraid to say how much I loved Carol but not that afraid.

 

Why? I thought Carol was popular, I always liked her

4 hours ago, Notabug said:

That house was adorable once she fixed it up.  

 

 

When you see the house in seasons 5 and 6 you see it came a loooong way. LOL!  She mentioned she took out several mortgages and her mom gave her money 

[Dr.OO7]

On 5/9/2025 at 10:47 PM, Mrsmaul2021 said:

Why? I thought Carol was popular, I always liked her

These threads can surprise you. It's like reading an EKG the way peoples opinions about characters/episodes/storyline will vary. It's a relief to read positive posts about her and Doug. 

I thought she was popular too, which is why it absolutely stunned me how much the TWOP recappers loathed her. There was literally nothing she could say or do without them going off on a diatribe about what a bitch she supposedly was--in one scene, she casually said "I'm going home to hug my girls"--something literally billions of people have said at the end of the day, but according to the recapper, is her being smug and condescending to her single/childless coworkers. 

It was awful. It made the recaps very unpleasant to read and I soon stopped. 

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

These threads can surprise you. It's like reading an EKG the way peoples opinions about characters/episodes/storyline will vary. It's a relief to read positive posts about her and Doug. 

I thought she was popular too, which is why it absolutely stunned me how much the TWOP recappers loathed her. There was literally nothing she could say or do without them going off on a diatribe about what a bitch she supposedly was--in one scene, she casually said "I'm going home to hug my girls"--something literally billions of people have said at the end of the day, but according to the recapper, is her being smug and condescending to her single/childless coworkers. 

It was awful. It made the recaps very unpleasant to read and I soon stopped. 

So did I.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

These threads can surprise you. It's like reading an EKG the way peoples opinions about characters/episodes/storyline will vary. It's a relief to read positive posts about her and Doug. 

I thought she was popular too, which is why it absolutely stunned me how much the TWOP recappers loathed her. There was literally nothing she could say or do without them going off on a diatribe about what a bitch she supposedly was--in one scene, she casually said "I'm going home to hug my girls"--something literally billions of people have said at the end of the day, but according to the recapper, is her being smug and condescending to her single/childless coworkers. 

It was awful. It made the recaps very unpleasant to read and I soon stopped. 

I like Carol too.

I was surprised as well by some opinions when I got back into online ER spaces a few years ago. Like all the Carter hate. I still think Carter overall is more good than bad but can now see he has his moments. I’m also surprised Abby is such a beloved and popular character people identify with and see as an inspiration, and that her relationship with Luka is widely considered one of the best on the show.

Even when I get into new shows, it follows me. 🤣 I just started watching The West Wing earlier this year and I feel irrationally annoyed with Danny Concannon (a White House press corps member who is obnoxiously infatuated with CJ), but then I come online and everyone is talking about how wonderful and romantic he is, and all I can think of is how fast I’d be complaining to my boss about his inappropriate behavior if I had to deal with that. (Thank God I don’t.) I’ll save more of my ranting on that for West Wing forums though.

Either I have no taste or I just happen to always have the contrary opinion. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

I can't think of one main character that I vehemently hated on ER. Sam was the closest but even that has subsided.  I don't hate her but she's still not my favorite. I can't think of any tv character I have a long standing hatred for. I watch old soap clips and laugh at how I used to really hate certain characters. 

Edited May 14 by Mrsmaul2021

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I can't think of one main character that I vehemently hated on ER.

I hated Malucci with every fiber of my being.  Pratt I hated most of the time, but he had one great moment when he got over his damn self and helped Chen end her father's suffering.  Same with Frank (who isn't a main character, but he was there a long time) -- I almost always hated him, but he had that great moment when Pratt was dying.  Romano was a horrible person, but I didn't always hate him.

The rest I liked to varying degrees, although I think they all had their moments when they really pissed me off -- you know, like people.

[Olis93]

Luka is another beloved character that I can never get behind or find myself caring about. I personally couldn't stand him after season 6 and I would rather have seen him killed off or move back to Croatia lol. 

That's the beauty of fiction though, we all see things differently and have different interpretations/opinions of characters and plots.

[Mrsmaul2021]

One question I wanted to ask you @Notabug but keep forgetting 

 

What are your thoughts on the whole tenure debacle with Carter and Susan in season 11? I know Carter donating 150 million dollars is what got him the tenure spot( he didn't donate to get tenure BTW) but it SEEMS Susan fell way short, especially after her talk with Weaver and Weaver brough up how little money she brought in.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Notabug]

On 5/15/2025 at 9:17 AM, Mrsmaul2021 said:

One question I wanted to ask you @Notabug but keep forgetting 

 

What are your thoughts on the whole tenure debacle with Carter and Susan in season 11? I know Carter donating 150 million dollars is what got him the tenure spot( he didn't donate to get tenure BTW) but it SEEMS Susan fell way short, especially after her talk with Weaver and Weaver brough up how little money she brought in.

 

What are your thoughts?

Susan never appeared to be on a tenure track in the first place, neither did Carter.  It's important to remember that doctors working in academic settings have a role as educators in addition to the practice of clinical medicine.  Most will choose a pathway early in their career and follow it.  Some want more of an academic emphasis, others more clinical; and there are those who combine the two more evenly.

Tenure is for docs who are more into education than clinical practice.  When they are hired, they opt for the tenure track.  They often have postgraduate degrees in public health or healthcare administration.  A significant portion of their workday is spent doing research, teaching residents, students and other professionals or doing administrative work on the residency curriculum, medical student rotations and the like.  Becoming tenured is essentially the same as anyone working primarily in education and requires research and publishing as well as good evaluations as a teacher, leadership roles in various aspects of the educational process, etc.

I work for huge academic medical center that has over 50,000 employees in my large midwestern city as well as branch facilities in Florida, Arizona, and London, Dubai and elsewhere. Most docs, like me, are not on the tenure track because we're primarily in clinical practice.  That doesn't mean we don't have faculty appointments, though, I am a clinical professor of OB/GYN at both med schools here; just not tenured.  Tenure in academic medicine is essentially the same as tenure in any other academic field, mainly providing job security.

In other words, I don't know why Susan wanted tenure in the first place.  She was a strong clinician who worked hard, got along well with patients, colleagues and students; she had plenty of job security on that basis.

[Mrsmaul2021]

Quote

Tenure is for docs who are more into education than clinical practice.  When they are hired, they opt for the tenure track.  They often have postgraduate degrees in public health or healthcare administration.  A significant portion of their workday is spent doing research, teaching residents, students and other professionals or doing administrative work on the residency curriculum, medical student rotations and the like.  Becoming tenured is essentially the same as anyone working primarily in education and requires research and publishing as well as good evaluations as a teacher, leadership roles in various aspects of the educational process, etc.

 

@Notabug

You possibly explained this better than anybody I spoke with. This makes more sense now and no, it doesn't seem Carter nor Susan was on this track, like at all. 

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

In other words, I don't know why Susan wanted tenure in the first place.  She was a strong clinician who worked hard, got along well with patients, colleagues and students; she had plenty of job security on that basis.

To come up with a contrived excuse for her leaving when she didn't get it?

[Notabug]

23 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

To come up with a contrived excuse for her leaving when she didn't get it?

Yep and to set up a little tension between Susan and Carter and to remind the faithful that Carter is really wealthy.  Considering how poorly Chuck was introduced and how minimal his screentime was, they could've just told us the marriage failed and she decided to leave County for a fresh start.  Or that parenting her son when both she and Chuck worked rotating shifts including weekends, nights and holidays was just not working; so Susan took a less strenuous job working at an urgent care until Cosmo was older and childcare wasn't so difficult.  Many doctors, especially women, take a break from the more strenuous aspects of practice when their kids are small.

[Dr.OO7]

In honor of what would have been their 30th anniversary had they gone through with it:

Poor bastard. It really says something for the show's quality that it make you feel sorry for a Disposable Love Interest you aren't supposed to care about. My heart absolutely broke when he described the way he loved her and forced her to admit that she didn't feel the same way. 

On the plus side, May 11 was the 25th anniversary of this moment.  . .

And presumably, Doug and Carol recently celebrated THEIR 25th anniversary. 

 

 

 

[Olis93]

That last scene of "Such Sweet Sorrow" was a perfect conclusion to their story. One of the best scenes of the whole series.