Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[verdana]

It's the nature of the secret he may be keeping that's more important to me not necessarily the fact he hasn't told Beckett. If we discover for example he was involved in CIA secret agent spook activities whilst also juggling being a single parent that's about as ridiculous to me as the Rogan story.

 

As for her being married to Rogan and not knowing that didn't make me dislike Beckett at all. However, it did make me scathing of the writers for creating such an idiotic story and insulting my intelligence (and making the character look silly) by expecting me to swallow it. Just because that's what the story is doesn't make it okay. It's a cumulative build of history the writers create for the characters of nonsensical behaviour or illogical events that end up weighing them down to the point I end up either disliking them or feeling apathetic about their story, they become like puppets, at the whim of the writers from week to week nothing more. 
 
mad maverick. I don't think it's being overly cynical to wonder why they've suddenly decided to focus on Castle after so many years of avoidance and your theories sound perfectly plausible to me.

Edited September 22, 2014 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

It's the nature of the secret he may be keeping that's more important to me not necessarily the fact he hasn't told Beckett. If we discover for example he was involved in CIA secret agent spook activities whilst also juggling being a single parent that's about as ridiculous to me as the Rogan story.

 

Him being a secret agent is obviously beyond believable, but it wouldn't be so unbelievable that when he was shadowing Sophia he witnessed something or learned some classified info.  He was a single parent, but that doesn't mean Meredith never spent any time with Alexis and he never had the opportunity to leave town occasionally.  He must have been going on book tours at times. And I don't even think it's bad if he didn't mention the details to Beckett because it's classified or it just never came up.  She does know that he worked with Sophia, but I doubt she asked about every single case.  Castle's hung around a lot of shady people for "research" any of them could come back to haunt him.  That's not keeping secrets to me. I'm going to wait and see how this plays out before getting annoyed about it.

 

Now, if he was part of something in the last year, then I don't get how Beckett wouldn't have known about it.  I don't believe he'd keep something from her, but more importantly I don't get when he'd have physically had time to do anything.  In the months leading up to the wedding Castle and Beckett were secretly investigating Vulcan/Bracken and actually planning the wedding.  They hadn't set a date in Belly of the Beast, and in Veritas (6 weeks later) it was 2 weeks until the wedding..  People on TV are so good at time management.

 

It actually reminds me a lot of the last season of Alias when they tried to convince us that Vaughn had been secretly investigating something throughout the whole series.  I don't even remember what he was investigating but it was unbelievable and kind of damaged the relationship.  But then he "died" so we never got to see any impact of that.  Even after he was alive again.

[S55]

So today, the writing staff revealed their brand new Castle Writers Twitter account. And Marlowe and Amann are doing an AMA on Monday at 1 p.m. ET. Hmmm. Interesting. I have to wonder why, after all these seasons, the writers came up with a Twitter account now. It does appear to be the "in" thing with TV shows, so maybe they decided to jump on the bandwagon? The AMA should be fascinating to watch too. If it's done in the spirit of the medium, they undoubtedly will get a wide range of fan questions (from the happy to the extremely unhappy). Stay tuned I suppose. ;) 

[S55]

Today, 705 writer Jim Adler revealed that TPW is writing 707 and it starts filming tomorrow. Finally time for a TPW ep! Do we think this is the cowboy/Western-themed one or could that be down the road still? 

[oberon55]

 

Because she didn't KEEP it from Castle she really thought it wasn't real. As STUPID as that is on paper, it's what the story was.

 

That is exactly what the story was & the story sucked with a great hissing sound. The thing that boggles the mind is that all of these professionals looked at the script & said "This is great. Let's make it the season finale."

[S55]

Stana and Nathan were a question on tonight (Monday)'s episode of Jeopardy (a trivia TV gameshow in the US for those who haven't heard of it). 

[McManda]

So now I need a picture of Nathan in full Highland dress.

 

Not full Highland dress, but Nathan wore a kilt to see Craig Ferguson once. (Ignore the Russian subtitles.) Enjoy.

 

Outlander is based on the novels by Diana Garbaldon. So they came in with a solid fanbase who had been posting pictures of men in kilts on their Pinterest pages for yonks.

 

I've also heard from people that have read the books that the series is - so far - much better. There's a pretty big complaint that the books are a good, interesting idea that ends up poorly written and often edges a bit too far into lady-porn land. (And considering it's a cable series, I have to wonder if that's all going to translate into the series later, but I also hear the series is pretty violent and bloody.) That said, I haven't read the books but have been told I would like the series, so I might check it out sometime. It's in my wheelhouse.

 

And Marlowe and Amann are doing an AMA on Monday at 1 p.m. ET. Hmmm. Interesting.

 

That's ... interesting. I wonder how many Castle fans will be interested in a Reddit AMA. (I wonder how many Castle fans know what Reddit is, actually.)

 

Stana and Nathan were a question on tonight (Monday)'s episode of Jeopardy (a trivia TV gameshow in the US for those who haven't heard of it).

 

He got Stana's name right, but his pronunciation of Fillion made me laugh a bit.

Edited September 23, 2014 by McManda

[371012]

Maybe this should be the Castle NOT in the Media thread -- one week to Season Premiere, watched Forever which debuted in Castle's normal spot, and no promos at all...just a little voice over at the end, literally, "Where's Castle?  Season premiere next Monday at 10."

 

And yes, the Outlander books by Diana Gabaldon are pretty racy, sometimes sexy but sometimes a few steps past that into porn at times tinged with violence.  Crazy premise but the books are very readable, thie comments here make me want to subscribe to Starz...

 

Finally, as the mom of grown sons, yup, I know what Reddit is!!!  But I don't really see Marlowe and Ammann answering much, hard to believe they'll be worthy of the AMA concept.

[McManda]

Finally, as the mom of grown sons, yup, I know what Reddit is!!!  But I don't really see Marlowe and Ammann answering much, hard to believe they'll be worthy of the AMA concept.

 

I only know what Reddit is because Nathan did an AMA once. An AMA that, instead of ending up in the right subreddit, randomly ended up in the Dallas subreddit. But really it's a pretty neat place to go for info or just to pass some time - it's literally got a subreddit for everything. (Yes, there's a Castle subreddit, but it's been a long time since I even looked at it. I don't' remember it being very active.)

 

Maybe this should be the Castle NOT in the Media thread -- one week to Season Premiere, watched Forever which debuted in Castle's normal spot, and no promos at all...just a little voice over at the end, literally, "Where's Castle?  Season premiere next Monday at 10."

 

Eh, I'll give ABC a pass on that one. By that time it's unlikely that they'd garner any new viewers. It's doubtful that anyone that isn't already aware of Castle (and it's return next week) is going to be watching at 11PM (and after the slot Castle has had for the last 7 years).

[KaveDweller]

Maybe this should be the Castle NOT in the Media thread -- one week to Season Premiere, watched Forever which debuted in Castle's normal spot, and no promos at all...just a little voice over at the end, literally, "Where's Castle?  Season premiere next Monday at 10."

 

I watched Forever and they did show a promo, at least in NYC.  It was a really short one, with Beckett announcing he's not in the car, but it was still a promo.  They also did that annoying thing where they put the Castle logo on the bottom of the screen and disrupt what you're supposed to be seeing to remind you to watch next week.  They did that at least twice.  Once they even included a picture of Nathan and Stana and really disrupted what you were supposed to be seeing. It's not super-great promotion, but it is at least some promotion.

 

The last scene of Forever also had the female detective say, "Are you coming, or what?" to Not-Erik Vaughn. But I don't think that was an intentional reference.

[turnitwayup]

I watched Forever and they did show a promo, at least in NYC. It was a really short one, with Beckett announcing he's not in the car, but it was still a promo.

I got the same promo here in CO. Be curious how long Forever lasts following Shield since ABC track record of shows in that time slot last season was horrible. At least it kept me interested than any of last season's shows. I did like the relationship reveal between Henry and Abe.

[cappuccino]

Today, 705 writer Jim Adler revealed that TPW is writing 707 and it starts filming tomorrow. Finally time for a TPW ep! Do we think this is the cowboy/Western-themed one or could that be down the road still?

Isn't Terri's episode the western themed one with the alternate universe where caskett never met? Or do I mix the spoilers up?

[verdana]

cappuccino. Terri's episode is the AU (#7.05) and the Western is #7.07, here is the link describing the episode on TV Line. Finally a TPW episode that's great news! But I'm a little worried because that one feels kind of weak and gimmicky to me but we shall see but if any one can make something of it then TPW will.

If I get to see some BTS pictures of Nathan dressed as a cowboy soon it will make my week.

 

Here is the list originally obtained from Fred @FredBC77 which I've now updated:

#Castle #Writers #Directors #S7

Ep1~>Amann/Bowman

Ep2~>AWM/Riley

Ep3~>Creaseys/Woods

Ep4~>Hanning/Bowman

Ep5~>Adler/Roe

Ep6~>Terri/Holahan

Ep7~>TPW/?

#Castle #Titles

Ep1~> Driven

Ep2~>Montreal

Ep3~> Clear and Present Danger

Ep4~> Child's Play

Ep5~> Meme Is Murder

Ep6~> Time Of Our Lives

Ep7~> TBA (cowboy episode)

Edited September 23, 2014 by verdana

[verdana]

Him being a secret agent is obviously beyond believable, but it wouldn't be so unbelievable that when he was shadowing Sophia he witnessed something or learned some classified info.  He was a single parent, but that doesn't mean Meredith never spent any time with Alexis and he never had the opportunity to leave town occasionally.  He must have been going on book tours at times. And I don't even think it's bad if he didn't mention the details to Beckett because it's classified or it just never came up.  She does know that he worked with Sophia, but I doubt she asked about every single case.  Castle's hung around a lot of shady people for "research" any of them could come back to haunt him.  That's not keeping secrets to me. I'm going to wait and see how this plays out before getting annoyed about it.

Oh I agree with you if that's scenario, sorry I should have clarified that. Castle being linked to the CIA as a spy or agent (if that's the story we don't know obviously) I say is silly given the character they've established frankly but It's about degrees of believability for me and how far they might push it if they go there. Finding out he held some highly classified information in the past either unknowingly or not which then causes an issue to pop up is far more believable than the idea he was an active agent going on missions or he's some super spy.

 

As for the keeping secrets aspect which does get some of us riled (and with good reason IMO given previous events), once again it depends on how everything pans out as to how I'll react to that one. When you're with someone you don't necessarily know everything about that person's life and vice versa. After twenty odd years I'm sure there are things I don't know about my partner but whenever I've found out something new that's surprised me a little I don't look at it as him thinking he's deliberately hiding things from me. You're not keeping a secret or misleading your partner if what happened was so long ago you've either genuinely forgotten about or the act doesn't seem remotely relevant or important to your life now and your existing relationship.  

 

However, they are on much more shaky ground with me if this comes up whilst Castle was with Beckett but I've always assumed it's something far back in his past which makes more sense and gives them a wider scope for storytelling since it would be totally new. 

 

I can't get angry about a story when I don't know what it is yet but I can be very wary and suspicious of the writers given I share the same misgivings as mad maverick about what this story might bring for not only Castle but Beckett. 

[Nadine]

Terri's AU ep is 7.06 not 7.05. It was just filmed first that's why people confused it originally.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Nadine

[verdana]

So today, the writing staff revealed their brand new Castle Writers Twitter account. (snipped) 

Are they nuts? That's asking for the crazies to come out the closest! They're either brave or foolish I can't decide which.  

Edited September 23, 2014 by verdana

[verdana]

I've also heard from people that have read the books that the series is - so far - much better. There's a pretty big complaint that the books are a good, interesting idea that ends up poorly written and often edges a bit too far into lady-porn land. (And considering it's a cable series, I have to wonder if that's all going to translate into the series later, but I also hear the series is pretty violent and bloody.) That said, I haven't read the books but have been told I would like the series, so I might check it out sometime. It's in my wheelhouse.

Luciana Mangas loves Outlander, I was checking her twitter out today and thought it was funny that mad maverick brought it up and now I keep seeing it mentioned, there was also a picture of the couple (I think from the tag) on my dash this morning in a state of undress. Heh. I heard the same thing from another fan that the series is better than the books.  I checked it out after it was mentioned on here, looks interesting.

That's ... interesting. I wonder how many Castle fans will be interested in a Reddit AMA. (I wonder how many Castle fans know what Reddit is, actually.)

Not this one, I have heard the name mentioned now and then but I don't have a clue really. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by verdana

[verdana]

Nadine. Sorry yes you're absolutely right about the Terri episode I got mixed up because of the switch around. 

[halaciHU]

That said, I haven't read the books but have been told I would like the series, so I might check it out sometime.

 

I also hear the series is pretty violent and bloody.

 

The show is the rare occasion when they manage to top the book. I started the first one and cancelled about at the wedding part - IMHO it's not bad, but not my style. The show on the other hand profit greatly that they divert from the first person POV storytelling, show things what the heroine only tells, using flashbacks and out of timeline scenes to keep it vivid. (Like in the weddig episode, which was very good indeed.) The visuals are stunning - it's Scotland, so that's the least :) - the cast IMHO is very good and unlike Starz other shows it is very tasteful and classy with nudity - both male and female. (Funny thing with such a smut-rumored book.) Being bloody - it's a medieval drama, there were some very brutal scene, but up till now it isn't about gore and lightyears away from Starz previous shows, like Spartacus.

 

Regarding Forever in place of Castle, somebody should tell the PR guys at ABC what "fandom" means. They put on a Forever promo on the Castle FB site, asking the fans to watch it till they have their own show - the reactions were the expected...

 

Otherwise I liked the pilot, though have a feeling that somebody tried to mix Body of Evidence and Castle, plus a little New Amsterdam. The end result was good (especially liked how they explained the past of Abe at the end - though that part was a straight copy from Highlander), I wonder how they will follow. If in it's own place it brings acceptable (around 2.0) ratings, I can imagine that from next season it will go into Castle's place, the show oozes from the effort to find the right substitute for Castle. ("Are you coming, or what?" - please!)

Edited September 23, 2014 by halaciHU

[madmaverick]

But I don't really see Marlowe and Ammann answering much, hard to believe they'll be worthy of the AMA concept.

 

My thoughts exactly.  It's Ask Me Anything but I definitely don't see them answering everything, possibly not even the most critically interesting questions.  They don't respond to criticism (of the polite, legit, constructive kind) on twitter, why would they on reddit?  

 

Yes, Nathan did an AMA a while ago.  He even answered a question about Stana for those interested. ;)

 

Interesting that they are answering questions before the premiere.  Don't people usually choose to do it after an episode has aired?  Are they afraid of the possible additional pitchforks that may be forthcoming in response to the premiere? ;)  I think there is possibly a sense of concern about ratings dropping for the premiere after what they did in FBFW (I don't really see that happening; I think they'll be similar to the past, steady not spectacular) and hence they are trying to communicate more reassurance to the fans in interviews etc. Don't know if it's working or if anyone cares though.

 

As for the Castle writers getting a twitter account, they are a few seasons too late with that compared to other shows.  Remains to be seen if there's any interesting content.  If it's like Marlowe's twitter account... yawn.

[S55]

Here is the list originally obtained from Fred @FredBC77 which I've now updated:

#Castle #Writers #Directors #S7

Ep1~>Amann/Bowman

Ep2~>AWM/Riley

Ep3~>Creaseys/Woods

Ep4~>Hanning/Bowman

Ep5~>Adler/Roe

Ep6~>Terri/Holahan

Ep7~>TPW/?

#Castle #Titles

Ep1~> Driven

Ep2~>Montreal

Ep3~> Clear and Present Danger

Ep4~> Child's Play

Ep5~> Meme Is Murder

Ep6~> Time Of Our Lives

Ep7~> TBA (cowboy episode)

 

One of the new S7 writers (Amanda Johns) told someone on Twitter that Alrick Riley was directing 707 (he also directed Marlowe's 702 and is a new director this season). But she's since deleted the tweet. I'm presuming that's because she wasn't supposed to share the info? ;) Nadine, can you confirm this from Studio System?

 

And verdana, I'm with you on the BTS pics of Nathan. ;) 

[Elysium1973]

I'm going to check out Forever based on what you guys are saying. I loved Body of Proof (there needs to be another Dana Delaney vehicle bc she's awesome). I'll watch it in demand. Really enjoyed the premieres of Good Wife and Blacklist. It's good to know there's still excellent television out there. I'll probably talk more about this in the other TV shows thread.

[verdana]

And verdana, I'm with you on the BTS pics of Nathan. ;) 

I want the works including the cowboy hat. If they're heading off to this ranch as spoilers suggest then lets do this properly and if they can get Nathan even near a horse (as I doubt he'll get on one) that would be even better. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by verdana

[madmaverick]

Wasn't there an interview or something from ages ago where either Nathan or Jon mentioned that there was a scene of them riding horses in Central Park chasing after a criminal?  Not sure if this was something they wanted to do or something that was actually filmed.  But I do remember a mention of horses.  Or perhaps I'm confusing this with Castle stealing a police horse and riding it in the nude because it was spring, of course.

 

If TPW is writing the western episode, then it shouldn't be too bad.  May even be good.

 

I will take Nathan in wardrobe as a real (or space) cowboy over him as Elvis any day.  I wouldn't object to him as a Canadian Mountie in the Montreal episode either heh.  Might spark some actual interest in the mythology. ;)

Edited September 23, 2014 by madmaverick

[halaciHU]

ABC put out a new poster onto Castle's FB page, with the promise that at 300K like they will release a new extended sneak peak. Reading the comments is ... edifying. I was surprised on the number of the angry/grumpy/f**ck off reactions, saying that they haven't gave out anything yet, don't blackmail the fandom. (Not to mention that the most popular posts on the site reached around 80K likes, so 300K is a bit ambitious.)

[whack-a-mole]

I guess that's one way to go, but it doesn't seem a good one. How to prove you don't have social media mojo 101.

[halaciHU]

How to prove you don't have social media mojo 101.

Yes, they have more than 4M followers, so on paper 300K like should come easily. I'm pretty sure they will reach it (Castle fandom is definitely a vote-crazy one), the question is the time. Plus, this week is the big premiere week. As much as fans would hate it, before the weekend there are very slim chance that another SP would reach the start pages of the big portals. They would need as much fan spread as soon as possible, mainly after the weakness of DWTS. (It's not a lead in anymore.)

[Nadine]

Studio System haven't added the 7.07 credits yet - usually they would have listed them last week. But I'd be confident if Amanda tweeted it that Riley is directing. Plus we know Jeannot is back directing 7.08 as per Andy B's tweet at the start of the season.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Nadine

[MaryM47]

The last scene of Forever also had the female detective say, "Are you coming, or what?" to Not-Erik Vaughn. But I don't think that was an intentional reference.

 

Caught another possible Castle homage in Forever:  When the never-dying-doc is talking to Abe about the terrible ways he has died before, he mentions getting hanged and how he's never forgotten that, with the aside, "Hang me once, shame on you. Hang me twice...."

[madmaverick]

I guess that's one way to go, but it doesn't seem a good one. How to prove you don't have social media mojo 101.

Agreed.  How I dislike the holding something hostage till you give me x number of likes strategy.  So tiresome and it doesn't engender goodwill in my book.  I can definitely live without a SP so they can keep it for all I care, especially if it was like that terribly cheesy one they released.  The closer they get to the premiere, the more they need people to get the word out, likes or not.  They've done such a crappy job of promoting (not to mention writing) the show lately, I'm not even sure I should reward them with my viewership.

 

ETA:  This promo from The Mindy Project actually does a better job of promoting Castle than much of what we've seen from ABC.  Funny, charming, smart.  Makes me want to watch that show. ;)  Sometimes I think the mentions of Castle on other shows are cooler than the actual show.  And I don't think any likes were required. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uck0Jp-B80Y

 

And a bit of trivia, the old costume designer from Castle (S1/2) who I wish we still had moved onto The Mindy Project.

Edited September 23, 2014 by madmaverick

[halaciHU]

"This promo from The Mindy Project actually does a better job of promoting Castle than much of what we've seen from ABC."

 

thanks madmaverick, it was nice! 

Edited September 23, 2014 by halaciHU

[MaryM47]

And another slight Castle-y moment on Forever:  The two leads talk at the wrap up of a crime scene, he asks her out (but, no, unlike Castle, he didn't mean it that way), then he whispers in her ear just before he walks away.

[WendyCR72]

Forever tanked as I expected. I'm interested to see how it does tonight.

As I have said many times, I don't put a lot of stock in what fans think because fans (myself included) can be volatile. But giving a new show someone else's premiere spot because you want the DWTS  lead in to launch it in hopes that people will watch it in it's real time slot (what I call the death slot) is pure bullshit. It is also a cynical move and shows that ABC doesn't really believe in Forever. 

 

To be fair, Forever had its final ratings adjusted up to 1.7, which was almost on par with Castle. Like it or hate it, Castle barely reached a 2 last spring itself.

 

The time slot is just competitive.

 

I think tonight will be the real test of whether Forever will be a keeper or not.

[whack-a-mole]

So, 170K and probably not getting there. They aimed big, but didn't look at their history.

[KaveDweller]

I'm going to check out Forever based on what you guys are saying.

 

I actually thought it was kind of boring.  It was the pilot, so maybe it will get better, but you'd think they could come up with a better case to start off with.  I'm giving it another chance based on the reveal about Abe at the end and because nothing else is on Tuesday nights.   And the lead is pretty hot.

 

I guess that's one way to go, but it doesn't seem a good one. How to prove you don't have social media mojo 101.

 

Pretty Little Liars actually did something similar in its season finale.  X number of Tweets and they'd release a video with the reaction of the actress who just got killed off.  It seemed to work for them (although the video was lame).  Not that I watch Pretty Little Liars or anything....

 

A brand new show coming off an extremely high rated lead in

 

Dancing With the Stars only got a 2.2, it's not the greatest lead-in anymore.  However, I agree Forever probably won't last very long.  Tuesday at 10 is a show-killer time slot. Castle already is at syndication, so I think they have more leeway than a new show when their ratings are looked at.

[WendyCR72]

That further proves my point.

Castle is in it's 7th year. The audience is what is it.

A brand new show coming off an extremely high rated lead in should have done way better.

It didn't.

 

I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if it does wonders tonight.

 

True, but then you also have to take into account diminishing returns with every new TV season. Ratings get lower, and so does the bar. Do I think Forever will ever do gangbusters? No. But, comparatively speaking, even 5 years ago when Castle debuted, broadcast ratings were higher. It's just erosion.

 

Had Castle premiered now, I'm not sure it would ever do so well, either.

 

The only shows to get good to great ratings last night are The Big Bang Theory (which seems to be a miraculous anomaly), The Blacklist (the power of Spader?), and the premieres of Gotham and Scorpion. Admittedly, Scorpion, I can't explain unless it was the usual new series curiosity, but Gotham has the Batman/comics allure - and I've seen many who love Donal Logue who were going to tune in.

 

Will the latter two hold? Who knows.

 

But to get back to Forever/Castle, they both had/will have the same handicap even though one was new and one is not: DWTS. It skews old, so the lead in will be older. Just the way it goes.

 

Castle may do well for the premiere to see the aftermath, but will it hold? DWTS may hurt it again. For all of its young fans online, its core demo has been slipping, too. Forever will be following Agents of SHIELD, so it could grow in the demo. Castle, though, is 5 years old now. Does it suck the show was pushed back for its fans? Sure. But I don't fault ABC for doing what it did. The network needs to start thinking ahead, especially if Nathan Fillion is not just doing a negotiating ploy and is done after this year.

[KaveDweller]

The thing that boggles the mind is that all of these professionals looked at the script & said "This is great. Let's make it the season finale."

Well, Marlowe may have.  Maybe everyone else thought it was dumb but didn't want to contradict the boss?  What I can't believe is that the network was okay with it.

[KaveDweller]

Admittedly, Scorpion, I can't explain unless it was the usual new series curiosity

 

Big Bang Theory lead in.  I think it was pretty smart of CBS to move it.  The Voice went down from last year.

[WendyCR72]

Big Bang Theory lead in.  I think it was pretty smart of CBS to move it.  The Voice went down from last year.

 

Ah, true. But then, CBS had no choice since football took Thursday for 8 weeks. (Then BBT is going back there.)

[WendyCR72]

The trouble is the almighty demo rules all, screw overall viewership. It's that way everywhere. And it stymies me that DWTS is still kicking because it really DOES skew old. Not that older viewers shouldn't count, they should. But from that demo mindset? DWTS is doing ABC no favors.

[McManda]

I don't think Castle will have great ratings for the first couple episodes. I think it'll premiere lower than expected and then stay low or maybe go a point or two lower, just because of the competition and the softness of DWTS as a lead in. If it doesn't alienate the fans I can see if rebounding after TBBT and The Blacklist move back to their Thursday slots and I can see if going head to head with NCIS: LA and whatever NBC has slotted.

 

But I haven't heard good things about Forever - the reviews are mixed at best - and between that and the lower than anticipated ratings, I'll be surprised if it makes it the season.

 

I tend to agree with halwideman - between it being a new show, a premiere, and having the ad campaign that ABC put behind it - ABC expected it to do better than it did. But I also agree that the real test is tonight, where it's a new episode (the premiere has been streaming for at least a week) and it's permanent time slot.

 

The trouble is the almighty demo rules all, screw overall viewership. It's that way everywhere. And it stymies me that DWTS is still kicking because it really DOES skew old. Not that older viewers shouldn't count, they should. But from that demo mindset? DWTS is doing ABC no favors.

 

But it still gets a decent-ish demo AND it's incredibly cheap, compared to a scripted show, so that keeps it above other problematic ABC shows. And when they've already got gaps on the schedule, having something dependable and inexpensive to stick around another season looks appealing. It's part of why Castle got the chance it did and probably part of why it's apt to stick around, as far as ABC is concerned.

[KaveDweller]

I'm pretty sure it still has a bigger audience than The Shield so it would be considered a better lead it. Which is why they debuted it then instead of in it's death time slot.

I guess we'll see how Shield does tonight.  I'm guessing not that great. I think one of the reasons Castle's lasted as long as it has is because they have had so many new shows tank in the past few years.

[VinceW]

After just getting a chance to read all the confusing and different screener reports from the folks watching the same thing, Marlowe and Amann working together as co-show runners looks kind of scary right now as S7 moves forward (secrets, doubts, angst, unromantic, tedious Espo). Marlowe put that “unsettled” word out there early to get the angst started with the audience which he knows stirs up and frustrates the fans. What kind of EP writes scripts that he knows will lose audience? It presents as a deliberate attempt to sabotage the season for other projects. The viewers being exposed to more of Beckett doubting Castle is just pathetic. Anything from the Castle past that would put Kate or his family at risk should have already been discussed between them before the wedding day. That is just common decency. If there is an issue with your past, take steps to keep your family safe. Any “dark” secrets still held between them now is just unrealistic at this point in the relationship. Even the casual viewers won’t hang around very long waiting for a wedding while Marlowe gets his mythology story on track. They will just tune out for good. IMO

Edited September 23, 2014 by VinceW

[GeorgieNY]

I thought that the establishing stock shots of NYC ere exactly like Castle. So much so that I think you could have thought you were watching Castle for the first few minutes. The camera style and directing also seemed very similar. I thought it was pretty silly though. Don't think it will last.

[Samantha84]

CBS no longer goes by overnights and will use Live+7 to judge the success/failure of a show.

 

I've heard CBS is doing this .. can someone be so kind as to break it down to me in layman's terms? 

[whack-a-mole]

They're just under 200K, so not happening. That was a bad experiment. Facebook wasn't good to them.

[FlickerToAFlame]

They've really painted themselves into a corner now. Do they give fans the clip for effort and teach people their rules don't matter or just keep from releasing it altogether and further alienate a very unhappy fanbase?

[McManda]

I've heard CBS is doing this .. can someone be so kind as to break it down to me in layman's terms?

 

Buzzfeed actually had an article about this - though it doesn't mention Castle.

 

Basically, networks are realizing that their model is outmoded and can't compete against the cable model, so they're aiming to readjust how they rate shows. They want to take into account all the people that will watch the show (by using the +7 ratings) and use that to determine how many people see the ads (not just that coveted male 18-49 demo). It's all still a bit fuzzy because advertisers are reluctant to use total viewers, especially over a +7 period (because if they're not watching live where they're forced into watching commercials, who says they're watching them? If you're watching DVR'd the next day, do you sit through commercials?).

 

The whole argument is stupid, since advertisers are stupid to think people were every watching their commercials, IMO. Maybe back in the '50s, but at least in my lifetime, even pre DVR was when you used the commercials to go to the bathroom, get a drink, or talk about your school day with your parents or whatever. Yeah there are the commercials that stick out, but I'd be so bold as to say that 90% of commercials are just background noise (which is why advertisers made they louder and louder until they got obnoxiously loud).

 

Point is, broadcast TV needs to make money somewhere, and I get that. I just think if they want to do that with commercials, advertising companies need to figure out a way to revalue the cost of their time. Because their business model is broken and only going to get worse and worse as DVR/on demand/streaming services/cable networks take over.

 

Anyway, CBS has started the trend, and you can bet ABC/NBC/FOX will be right behind them. It won't hurt the big players - The Voice, TBBT, NCIS - shows like that will only benefit. And steady players like Castle will, too.

[KaveDweller]

Yeah there are the commercials that stick out, but I'd be so bold as to say that 90% of commercials are just background noise (which is why advertisers made they louder and louder until they got obnoxiously loud).

 

Well, I think this is mostly true.  The problem is the only reason they make these shows is so there's somewhere that advertisers can air their messages.  If advertisers think the commercials don't have an impact, they don't pay the networks, and they don't produce anything.  Unless you go to the cable model where the networks get money from viewer subscriptions.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Regarding Forever's similarities to Castle, the main female character also wears a necklace holding the ring of a dead loved one (her husband).