Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[VinceW]

Q. You think Beckett actually thinks/views things differently after the episode? Are lessons learned?

A. Oh, she learns her lesson. She tells him that if nothing else, she's realized even more how much she needs Castle.

 

It is all about Beckett keeping secrets which explains the whole purpose of the separation. IMO. In this case, maybe Castle nearly gets killed because she keeps details from him. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by VinceW

[Chado]

Putting in spoiler tags because it is beyond mere speculation or hints from cast/crew.

 

I got the impression from the Twitter spoiler person (name escapes me) who compared the Castle reunion scene to one from "Say Anything," that somebody getting hurt acts as a catalyst to bring "Caskett" closer. I'm not sure if I should be taking the comparison so literally, but I'm wondering. What would make Beckett change her mind? It would have to be something significant.  My guesses are either that Vikram turns out to be a "bad" or somebody gets hurt, perhaps Castle and via being surprised about something where knowing the facts would have protected him.

The video is a reference/tease to how we should expect Castle to react to Beckett and all her lies/poor behavior. The impression I'm getting (without watching) is that Castle just accepts that this is who she is, which depending on your view point, will be received in different ways.

 

@ VinceW You could be right, given all of the characters in the episode, I'm interested in how they manage to approach all of this and not rush important elements.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Chado

[VinceW]

The video is a reference/tease to how we should expect Castle to react to Beckett and all her lies/poor behavior. The impression I'm getting (without watching) is that Castle just accepts that this is who she is, which depending on your view point, will be received in different ways.

 

It is all about Beckett keeping secrets which explains the whole purpose of the separation. IMO. In this case, maybe Castle nearly gets killed because she keeps details from him.

 

@ VinceW You could be right, given all of the characters in the episode, I'm interested in how they manage to approach all of this and not rush important elements.

 

I think that the TPWinter comment in his early season interview about waiting for this episode to explain the path chosen for the arc seems to confirm that as well.

Edited November 21, 2015 by VinceW

[verdana]

I think that the TPWinter comment in his early season interview about waiting for this episode to explain the path chosen for the arc confirms that as well.

This bemuses me, the idea that what we discover the point to what they were doing and fans would hopefully appreciate it afterwards. I can't think what scenario is going to make me look back and be satisfied with this story in hindsight and that it does justice to the characters and is worth the long wait.  If for example Castle almost gets hurt as a result of something to do with Locksat that Kate has kept from him, we've been there and done that already back in 8.01.

Edited November 21, 2015 by verdana

[TWP]

TWP if you are referring to Rob K's prop tweet that was not for the fall finale but for 8.09.

Right.  I was wondering if there's some continuity between what happens in 8.08 and 8.09

Edited November 21, 2015 by TWP

[CastleSeason8]

This bemuses me, the idea that what we discover the point to what they were doing and fans would hopefully appreciate it afterwards. I can't think what scenario is going to make me look back and be satisfied with this story in hindsight and that it does justice to the characters and is worth the long wait. If for example Castle almost gets hurt as a result of something to do with Locksat that Kate has kept from him, we've been there and done that already back in 8.01.

There is no story, especially one that can be told in 42 minutes, that will make me look back and appreciate what has happened so far in S8. Not going to happen.

[TWP]

Joy's 8.08 spoiler/slight screening tease.  Oh wow, I didn't even think of the "ship" pun.  It's "shut the front door" 2.0.  (Hello, Always).  SMH on the subtle and not-so-subtle subtext ;-). 

 

I think Joy was doubtful about if the 8.08 payoff is worth all the pain.  However, she doesn't seem as frustrated as usual...

Edited November 21, 2015 by TWP

[westwingfan]

Q. You think Beckett actually thinks/views things differently after the episode? Are lessons learned?

A. Oh, she learns her lesson. She tells him that if nothing else, she's realized even more how much she needs Castle.

 

It is all about Beckett keeping secrets which explains the whole purpose of the separation. IMO. In this case, maybe Castle nearly gets killed because she keeps details from him. 

Remember this from Watershed

 

BECKETT

I’m sorry. (she sighs) I shouldn’t have kept secrets.

CASTLE

It’s who you are. You don’t let people in. I’ve had to scratch and claw for every inch.

 

This doesn't exonerate the way the current showrunners have written this arc, but Castle was willing to accept her flaws when he asked her to marry him, but I guess he believed, or hoped, that marriage would bring about a change in her mentality, which the showrunners decided wasn't the case.

[VinceW]

There is no story, especially one that can be told in 42 minutes, that will make me look back and appreciate what has happened so far in S8. Not going to happen.

The network turned the show over to amateurs; Writing stories in a circle has ruined the show history.

[VinceW]

Remember this from Watershed

 

BECKETT

I’m sorry. (she sighs) I shouldn’t have kept secrets.

CASTLE

It’s who you are. You don’t let people in. I’ve had to scratch and claw for every inch.

 

This doesn't exonerate the way the current show runners have written this arc, but Castle was willing to accept her flaws when he asked her to marry him, but I guess he believed, or hoped, that marriage would bring about a change in her mentality, which the show runners decided wasn't the case.

Great point. Also, remember the phrase from Valkyrie, "I got the job" rather than "I took the job" was used to explain away her odd behavior as well.

[Bubbi63]

What I remember of the numerous interviews from the show runners was that if fans are patient that the fall finale would give us an idea of where this story arc was going and of course they thought we would all love it and find it "Fun".

They also said this arc was for the better part of S8.  There was never an expectation of an end to the separation by the fall finale.

A change in plans? To stop the bleeding?  More important--will it work?

 

 

[verdana]

Joy's 8.08 spoiler/slight screening tease.  Oh wow, I didn't even think of the "ship" pun.  It's "shut the front door" 2.0.  (Hello, Always).  SMH on the subtle and not-so-subtle subtext ;-).

Considering Hawley is keen to revisit the earlier seasons, if 8.08 ends up looking like a rehash of Always that would be entirely appropriate.   Secret revealed > argument > Castle walk out > Beckett apology > Castle acceptance > BED.

This is what Winter said in one interview, this is the one I recall but obviously there could be others.

"It's going to be a great episode. For the fans who right now are going, 'What the heck and Terence and Alexi [Hawley] doing?!,' when they see that episode they'll understand and see what we're going for," he said. (Winter) TV Line interview

 

They also said this arc was for the better part of S8.

 

I got the idea from the early interview Stana did that this case will carry on all season with different "shifts" occurring so this may be the conclusion of the first one. Next one looks like being where they start to merge Castle's mythology into the Locksat business. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by verdana

[VinceW]

What I remember of the numerous interviews from the show runners was that if fans are patient that the fall finale would give us an idea of where this story arc was going and of course they thought we would all love it and find it "Fun".

They also said this arc was for the better part of S8.  There was never an expectation of an end to the separation by the fall finale.

A change in plans? To stop the bleeding?  More important--will it work?

A lot of blather upfront from them for sure, but I wonder how early the network stepped in and forced a change in plans.

[humean316]

What if the show flashes back to episode 2, when Beckett is talking to Castle's mother-in-law, and we see her conversation with the woman. Castle's mom then leaves and Castle appears from behind a corner and walks up to Beckett. They have a conversation about why she ran out that morning and she tells Castle that his mother-in-law isn't wrong. This case could get him killed. He tells her that this case almost got her killed already. She says she isn't quite sure she wants to fight anymore and Castle tells her that she cannot quit, that what makes her extraordinary is that she never quits, and they hatch a plan there.

 

It's all been a ruse and Castle was in on it from the beginning. They know that Vikram is simply trying to keep them apart and so anytime they are around each other they have to pretend that they are not together so that Vikram will think he is succeeding. They also know that Castle's disappearance is related to locksat because, wait for it, Castle's mother-in-law is the one who took him at the end of season 6. The reason Vikram was able to escape the deathsquad that killed McCord and her teammates was because he was in on it, and her and vikram are working together to both keep castle from uncovering the real reason of his disappearance and protect whomever locksat is on his order. They are both dirty.

[VinceW]

What if the show flashes back to episode 2, when Beckett is talking to Castle's mother-in-law, and we see her conversation with the woman. Castle's mom then leaves and Castle appears from behind a corner and walks up to Beckett. They have a conversation about why she ran out that morning and she tells Castle that his mother-in-law isn't wrong. This case could get him killed. He tells her that this case almost got her killed already. She says she isn't quite sure she wants to fight anymore and Castle tells her that she cannot quit, that what makes her extraordinary is that she never quits, and they hatch a plan there.

 

It's all been a ruse and Castle was in on it from the beginning. They know that Vikram is simply trying to keep them apart and so anytime they are around each other they have to pretend that they are not together so that Vikram will think he is succeeding. They also know that Castle's disappearance is related to locksat because, wait for it, Castle's mother-in-law is the one who took him at the end of season 6. The reason Vikram was able to escape the deathsquad that killed McCord and her teammates was because he was in on it, and her and vikram are working together to both keep castle from uncovering the real reason of his disappearance and protect whomever locksat is on his order. They are both dirty.

That would be much better than using a dream to explain away everything. Rita(stepmother) is a recurring character.

Edited November 21, 2015 by VinceW

[WendyCR72]

Allow me to be completely anal retentive for a sec: Rita is Castle's stepmother. Dead Johanna is his mother-in-law. Carry on!  :-)

[VinceW]

Secret revealed > argument > Castle walk out > Beckett apology > Castle acceptance > BED.

One of the screener reports said that the last ten minutes were intense.  When I read that, I immediately thought of  "Always" and Castle walking out of her apartment after the argument. Another screener report said that the whole episode had an "Always" feel to it.

Edited November 21, 2015 by VinceW

[verdana]

More important--will it work?

 

I'm not sure if it's going to make that much difference TBH. I can see the show will continue to slowly bleed viewers irrespective of the storyline, Castle is an ageing show running low on juice.

 

It's all been a ruse and Castle was in on it from the beginning.

 

The problem I have with that suggestion is it taints the emotional moments we did get between them, it feels like a cheap writing ploy used to try and fix something.

[verdana]

One of the screener reports said that the last ten minutes were intense.  When I read that, I immediately thought of  "Always" and Castle walking out of her apartment after the argument. Another screener report said that the whole episode had an "Always" feel to it.

I'd be surprised if we get a repeat of the shut the front door moment though, two sex scenes for Caskett in the space of a fortnight? Things really would be getting desperate lol.

Edited November 21, 2015 by verdana

[westwingfan]

That would be much better than using a dream to explain away everything. Rita(stepmother) is a recurring character.

From Entertainment Weekly Oct 5

 

Will we get to see more of Castle’s stepmom?

HAWLEY: We will definitely get to her but spoiler alert: we’re not going to get to her in the near future.

 

I think one of the key pre season interviews that was open to interpretation was Stana's to Deadline that came out on Jul 27

 

Katic called Episodes 1 and 2 of Season 8 “brother and sister.” Each reflects Castle and Beckett’s perspective on “an event that shifts the entire season into a higher velocity” and “is part of what will set everything up for the next 20 episodes.”

 

At the time we didn't know what "event" was going to happen in the two-parter, but I think a lot of people took this comment after the episodes aired as suggesting that the break up could last all season, however, there were other signs that it was more about the case lasting all season and perhaps the break up was never intended to last that long. Keeping Beckett investigating without Castle all season was probably untenable as his inability to figure out what she was really up to would have gotten old pretty fast, as it has. So starting the investigation into Loksat with Beckett thinking she needs to go it alone for his safety would seem a way to take up a few episodes but now we need them joining forces in another shift to make some progress over the next few episodes (8x08 to 8x12) and then it looks like around 8x13 or 8x14 there's another shift when they apparently find a connection to Castle's disappearance, and then presumably things come to a head over the final three or four episodes of the season.

Edited November 21, 2015 by westwingfan

[TWP]

I think people on this forum expected the breakup to last past winter hiatus because Hal-the-mysteriously-disappearing-"insider" convinced us of it. He/she may have been privy to scripts, but fooled by the insertion of 8.08-Cool Boys before the last two episodes?  I also think Matt at TVLINE was working to convince people that the breakup wouldn't end soon. We'll never know, but judging by what looked like minor panic from show crew on Twitter last week, I'm going to speculate  along with the (other) tin foil hatters that any reunion that may or may not happen in 8x08 was unplanned when the season started.... On the other hand, the "ship(per)" pun maybe says they planned a reunion all along. I doubt you can shoot on the Queen Mary without some notice. Maybe Hal was floating a trial balloon over here about keeping the breakup going beyond hiatus and the reaction made them veto it. Who know, but it's **fun** to speculate. (I'll never look at that word the same way again ;-))

 

Nathan knew the breakup was a horrible idea. Showrunners seem to always listen to him when he's wrong (I suspect Castle's buffoon behavior is greatly Nathan's idea.), but maybe less often when he's right.

 

I wonder how much of a reunion we'll actually get. I wouldn't mind being spoiled on that if anyone knows (via PM).

[FlickerToAFlame]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hal said they were still separated after the fall finale. I guessed that the Mr. and Mrs. Smith title might mean renewing their vows and Hal responded something like, "No, but you will be happy."

[KaveDweller]

 I also think Matt at TVLINE was working to convince people that the breakup wouldn't end soon. 

 

In the comments section TV Line, a person referred to Matt making it clear that the breakup would last a long time. And Matt responded to that person that didn't think he had done that. 

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hal said they were still separated after the fall finale. I guessed that the Mr. and Mrs. Smith title might mean renewing their vows and Hal responded something like, "No, but you will be happy."

 

I thought there was also a post about how people guessing the episode would include a reunion and a baby would be disappointed on both counts. But I may be misremembering that.  I do remember Hal saying there was plot movement though.

[S55]

If there is going to be another "Always" parallel in this fall finale, I want it to be an argument between Castle & Beckett where this time Castle is angry at Beckett for keeping him in the dark about something that affects him too. But I'm not getting my hopes up that such a scene occurs. 

 

As for Vikram going on fans' hate list, I saw that coming during the last episode. When he questioned Beckett about her dinner with Castle? That wasn't who his character was before. He was always the blind follower who went along with whatever she thought was best and knew her objective was to get back to her husband. I found it odd and that moment stood out to me. I can't help but wonder if they decided to change his character and his purpose between 803 and 808. 

[TWP]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hal said they were still separated after the fall finale. I guessed that the Mr. and Mrs. Smith title might mean renewing their vows and Hal responded something like, "No, but you will be happy."

I didn't really read everything Hal wrote, but gathered second hand that he said they wouldn't be together yet by hiatus.

 

I'm not 100% convinced they get all the way back together...they'll talk and then the relationship changes from being completely separate to being separately together.... maybe as secret lovers like Rita and Castle's dad. But I've read too many spoilers and now feel a little befuddled. I'll see one thing that instills confidence and then another that takes it away.... 

 

And I wish Castle were one of those shows that takes us for a ride for a minute but hits the right notes when it needs to, so we feel like we're on an adventure rather than a wild goose chase. But as many of us have covered so many times in so many ways, it's not. I figure we'll all be eagerly seeking out the baking show (in Castle's timeslot) during winter break, LOL. Carbo load!. And the big question is if they reconcile, can we trust the showrunners to not mess it up again? I have my doubts. Trust in the story is really lost for me.

 

Update:  I found this info graphic and love it. It covers the characteristics of a good story. Each point really addresses why many of us like and sometimes hate Castle. Front and center is the notion of trust in the storyteller.  Sheesh, and I thought I'd invented the notion, LOL.

 

Link: http://www.abccopywriting.com/2013/12/10/what-really-makes-a-good-story 

Edited November 22, 2015 by TWP

[KaveDweller]

As for Vikram going on fans' hate list, I saw that coming during the last episode. When he questioned Beckett about her dinner with Castle? That wasn't who his character was before. He was always the blind follower who went along with whatever she thought was best and knew her objective was to get back to her husband. I found it odd and that moment stood out to me. 

 

I don't think Vikram had a huge fan base before the last episode anyway. But that moment was a red flag to me, he purposely interrupted Castle/Beckett and then tried to talk Beckett out of what she wanted. Maybe he's working for Rita, who is the one who talked Beckett into leaving Castle in the first place. 

 

It could be interesting if Vikram does turn out to be a bad guy and Caskett figures that out and reunites, but pretends to still be split.

 

As to whether whatever happens was planned from the beginning or not.....we'll find that out whenever we find out what the hell happened between Nathan/Stana.  

[verdana]

TWP.Thanks for the link really interesting read. 

 

If there is going to be another "Always" parallel in this fall finale, I want it to be an argument between Castle & Beckett where this time Castle is angry at Beckett for keeping him in the dark about something that affects him too. But I'm not getting my hopes up that such a scene occurs.

 

I don't want to raise my expectations about anything to do with this story because I doubt I will get closure on it in any truly satisfying way, the show prefers to deal in superficialities and goes for fan service more than anything else as appeasement, I do expect closure to end with them heading to the bedroom, it rarely delves into any serious issues between a couple that should be discussed and examined properly. True love will always conquer everything with these two that's how it's written no matter what the writers put them through emotionally so I need to keep suspending disbelief increasingly as the show ages and they hit yet another contrived obstacle that would finish most relationships.  

 

However, I would hope to see Castle allowed to finally get angry with her about what's happened at being kept in the dark. I also want for the writers to somehow convey with Beckett's reaction to that anger that she's truly understands what she did was foolish and wrong and that marriage is a partnership. If they can give me something like that then I'll take it and be relatively satisfied. 

[verdana]

 

I thought there was also a post about how people guessing the episode would include a reunion and a baby would be disappointed on both counts. But I may be misremembering that.  I do remember Hal saying there was plot movement though.

That's what I remember too no baby or reunion but the episode would be enjoyable. 

 

As to whether whatever happens was planned from the beginning or not.....we'll find that out whenever we find out what the hell happened between Nathan/Stana.

 

Heh, yeah I'm be interested when this show is done what leaks out but if they do reconcile this episode I'm sure a lot of discussion will get taken up in the aftermath about how TPTB must have panicked or how the network forced them into a reconciliation but I'm not convinced about that.  I don't see these showrunners changing much if only because it's hard to make fundamental alterations in a season long story arc once you're fully into the swing of weekly filming there are so many factors to consider. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by verdana

[westwingfan]

That's what I remember too no baby or reunion but the episode would be enjoyable. 

 

Heh, yeah I'm be interested when this show is done what leaks out but if they do reconcile this episode I'm sure a lot of discussion will get taken up in the aftermath about how TPTB must have panicked or how the network forced them into a reconciliation but I'm not convinced about that.  I don't see these showrunners changing much if only because it's hard to make fundamental alterations in a season long story arc once you're fully into the swing of weekly filming there are so many factors to consider. 

They filmed Mr & Mrs Castle from Oct 7 to Oct 16 so they would have little time to consider any fall out from the break up initially, and the audience only dipped significantly in Cool Boys, up until then the ratings had only slipped slightly from the premier, hardly enough to warrant a major rethink you would have thought. However, even though it must be difficult to find time and money to redo scenes after they've moved on to the next episode, we do know that they film more scenes than actually make it into the show from the deleted scenes that turn up on the DVDs, so maybe they'd hedged their bets and had a few up their sleeves that could be switched to alter the speed of the reconciliation. With The Last Seduction and Mr & Mrs Castle being filmed as the sixth and eigth episodes but airing as the seventh and eigth, plus the two week hiatus they would have a bit more time for editing to take into account the amount of reaction they would have been aware of by then if they'd wanted to.

[verdana]

Castle Preview: 6 Things You Need to Know About The Winter Finale (Plus Photos) at Tell Tale TV 

[verdana]

Castle - Mr. & Mrs. Castle - Winter Finale Advance Preview: "Some Good Progress" at Spoiler TV 

 

 

In all,

I think those who are somewhat disgruntled with the format new showrunners Alexi Hawley and Terence Paul Winter have taken this season will come away feeling a bit better about things in this winter finale.

 

Given the way the title is phrased and where he says "a bit" seems telling, I wonder if they go down the road of pretending they're still separated to the outside world but Castle now knows what is going on and they agree to track down Locksat together.  In that way you move things forward without actually resolving things completely, it kind of ties in with the idea of a "shift" which doesn't equate to a resolution but it is positive forward step for Caskett (which is what the writers promised) although for some it will not be enough. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by verdana

[Sonik Tooth]

Link: http://www.abccopywriting.com/2013/12/10/what-really-makes-a-good-story 

Indeed, nice read. For the evaluation of the ongoing storylines and to manage conflicting goals (e.g. demands of the network), I would additionally suggest a structured approach to review the story itself and the enablers of a good story: Determine the required results, plan and develop approaches, deploy the approaches in a systematic way and finally assess the impact and (if necessary) refine to ensure you received the desired results.

 

Heh, yeah I'm be interested when this show is done what leaks out but if they do reconcile this episode I'm sure a lot of discussion will get taken up in the aftermath about how TPTB must have panicked or how the network forced them into a reconciliation but I'm not convinced about that.  I don't see these showrunners changing much if only because it's hard to make fundamental alterations in a season long story arc once you're fully into the swing of weekly filming there are so many factors to consider. 

I agree. I think they planned to show “Beckett’s mythology” first, have their “dramatic split”, somewhat reconcile again, maybe have a few nice episodes (or workplace drama for Beckett) and dive into “Castle’s mythology” to amp things up again.

 

Personally I would have favoured a story where the two big events were introduced at the beginning. Meaning that Beckett’s research into LokSat also included a name or a place that could establish a connection to Castle’s disappearance. Knowing Castle’s reluctance to dig deeper (seemed like he couldn’t care less even after Sleeper) combined with lingering doubts Beckett showed during the beginning of last season (till their wedding), it would have explained the time out a little bit better. But I’m repeating myself :-)

[Sonik Tooth]

Castle - Mr. & Mrs. Castle - Winter Finale Advance Preview: "Some Good Progress" at Spoiler TV 

 

 

Given the way the title is phrased and where he says "a bit" seems telling, I wonder if they go down the road of pretending they're still separated to the outside world but Castle now knows what is going on and they agree to track down Locksat together.

Going that way they would contradict their narrative again, as everybody around Beckett and Castle either don’t know about their separation (“Aren’t you married to”) or doesn’t take it too seriously (family members and colleagues). The key would be to convince everybody that Beckett doesn’t care about Castle at all/ no ties to him at all. So if she discovers something to bring LokSat down he wouldn’t be used as either leverage or captured/ killed as someone who might be privy to all the information. I would suggest moving to another city, laying low for at least half a year…

[Chado]

My guess is that something will happen with Vikram and Beckett and Castle will have to remain separated (but be on the same page) because of something he does and/or something they expect him being. I still won't be surprised if they are physically 'separated' for the entire of this season still.

 

I assume the not so subtle attempt by him to keep Beckett away from Castle last episode is going to become even less so in this episode.

 

...The ultimate 'fu' to fans would be if he somehow cancels their marriage certificate or does something serious along those lines to screw with Castle. I'm half expecting something angst related from him at the very least.

 

This is all just pure speculation by the way, I never asked about Vikram to those who had seen the screener.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Chado

[CastleSeason8]

If there is going to be another "Always" parallel in this fall finale, I want it to be an argument between Castle & Beckett where this time Castle is angry at Beckett for keeping him in the dark about something that affects him too. But I'm not getting my hopes up that such a scene occurs.

They really dont have an original thought do they?

Edited November 22, 2015 by CastleSeason8

[verdana]

They really dont have an original thought do they?

Not by the looks of it, Hawley seems to think if he cherry picks bits out of old episodes and put a supposed "fresh" spin on them it's great storytelling and the fans will lap it up but seems fairly transparent to me what he's up to, he's a showrunner with very few new ideas going around in circles. May be he should head off to that new show of his ABC have planned for him sooner rather than later and leave Winter to go it alone or God forbid get some genuine fresh blood in that's prepared to look forward not back. 

[VinceW]

Not by the looks of it, Hawley seems to think if he cherry picks bits out of old episodes and put a supposed "fresh" spin on them it's great storytelling and the fans will lap it up but seems fairly transparent to me what he's up to, he's a show runner with very few new ideas going around in circles. May be he should head off to that new show of his ABC have planned for him sooner rather than later and leave Winter to go it alone or God forbid get some genuine fresh blood in that's prepared to look forward not back. 

Beckett's secret from Castle is out. Caskett still living apart, but working in harmony with minimum loft scenes keeps the show in Season 4 as long as possible which seems to follow the Hawley plan, but going forward he needs a new obstacle for them in order to keep them separated. Maybe the "shift" is not the reunion but possibly Vikram is the new obstacle because the 'win her back' premise has lost its magic with the audience and it makes no sense as part of Castle's ongoing interaction with his family and friends at the precinct. I just can't imagine the separation lasting until the Feb sweeps given that the January episodes were originally set to air in February unless the network doesn't care about another big drop in viewership similar to what happened with "Cool Boys".

Edited November 22, 2015 by VinceW

[TWP]

They really don't have an original thought do they?

To be fair ;-), none of the shows do.  That's why we have a finite list of TV tropes, all of which are sliced, diced, pared, and combined to make a "new," but highly derivative story.  But yeah, I've rarely seen a show play over the same story lines like Castle does.  I wonder if these plots are licensed.  TPTB don't want to buy a new one, so they **recycle** the old one.  ...another type of **green** economy ;-)...but one that increases rather than decreases carbon emissions (aka full of hot air), LOL.

[TWP]

If Caskett develops a separate but loving/working together relationship, I'll find that interesting and watchable, although I'll probably gravitate first to the shows that I've used to fill in the blanks lately.  For some reason, those don't bug me, which is something that puzzles me.  Either I don't care as much, or they haven't fooled with my trust as much.  As you can see via the link I posted earlier, I've been studying up on TV storylines to help in understanding what it is about Castle that sticks in my craw.  I am one of the 50 million fans world-wide that has looked forward to happily watching pretty much every NCIS(original) episode for 13 years.  What is it that NCIS brings to me that Castle doesn't?  It's an interesting comparison study.

 

Anyway, I'm expecting the true fun to begin in 2016. I am hopeful, at least.  The next dilemma will be how much should I care about a show that may very well get cancelled. If only the real world had such small problems, LOL.

[Bubbi63]

I wish I could remember which interview I read that the show runners gave that suggested the separation would go on past the fall finale but I am certain I read it but now I don't know if it even matters.  We shall see what Monday brings and if it brings an end to the separation I am going to tend to believe it is because of lost viewers and TPTB hit the red panic button. But that is just me..........I have always felt that 3 second wedding we got was Marlow caving to pressure from the network.   Plus a whole season of Locksat is way to much for me--I can not tell you how much I hate this arc with or with out the break up.

 

Maybe I just never paid attention before but does it not seem like the spoilers for this ep are really being pushed? and numerous? Or is this normal?

[verdana]

Maybe I just never paid attention before but does it not seem like the spoilers for this ep are really being pushed? and numerous? Or is this normal?

I would say it's the same as usual whenever they issue a screener at a key juncture, I haven't really noticed anything that different in terms of what we're getting from the usual sources. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by verdana

[CastleSeason8]

I honestly dont know if this possible reunion is a new development due to the fan outcry. Im still not sold on the fact that this is a true reconciliation (will find out soon enough) but cant, for the life of me, figure how fans will be "happy" with anything less. Maybe the plan was a little forward movement but with some rewrites to make it more substantial? Just not convinced there was enough time to do that since this ep was filmed awhile ago. Also, keeping in mind both showrunners and ABC dont seem to really care about backlash. ABC seems to be loving it by the promos and tweets it sends out.

[oberon55]

I am one of the 50 million fans world-wide that has looked forward to happily watching pretty much every NCIS(original) episode for 13 years.  What is it that NCIS brings to me that Castle doesn't?  It's an interesting comparison study.

 

I would say NCIS strength is great characterization. All the characters almost always stay in character & react the way I expect them to. I hardly ever say "Gibbs or Abby would not do that". Whereas on Castle I'm constantly saying "why the hell would (fill in the blank) act this way".

[WendyCR72]

I wonder if being (for the most part) a "serious" procedural versus a "light" procedural correlates to good strong characterization or not. Because the NCIS descriptor, to me, also applied to those on the L&O franchise's three shows. The characters stayed consistent. Maybe it is easier since, on those types of shows, the focus is mainly on the case with character on the periphery (and thus not overloaded with skills and info, so easier to keep straight?).

 

The forerunner '80s "light" shows, Remington Steele, Moonlighting, and Scarecrow & Mrs. King seemed to be able to handle both characters and case well.

 

Alas, it seems like a "one or the other" landscape now.

[westwingfan]

I wish I could remember which interview I read that the show runners gave that suggested the separation would go on past the fall finale but I am certain I read it but now I don't know if it even matters.  We shall see what Monday brings and if it brings an end to the separation I am going to tend to believe it is because of lost viewers and TPTB hit the red panic button. But that is just me..........I have always felt that 3 second wedding we got was Marlow caving to pressure from the network.   Plus a whole season of Locksat is way to much for me--I can not tell you how much I hate this arc with or with out the break up.

 

Maybe I just never paid attention before but does it not seem like the spoilers for this ep are really being pushed? and numerous? Or is this normal?

The closest I can come up with, depending how you interpret moving the ball down the field, is from TV Guide Nov 8

Does that mean a reconciliation is in the cards? After all, the Nov. 23 episode -- the fall finale -- is titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Although executive producer Alexi Hawley notes that's a bit a play off Mr. and Mrs. Smith, he acknowledges that the episode is a big step forward in the relationship. "We definitely move the ball down the field in terms of the conspiracy and the effect it's having on their relationship," he says. "It ends with the promise of what's to come in a way that people will be excited about."

[Bubbi63]

Agreed that TPTB do not care much about the fall out but they do care about money as in AD dollars which they will loose if Castles ratings fall into fraction territory. I do remember the write up from the head of the network at the beginning of the season--his vision was a Castle with many more seasons and the new show runners were tasked to make it happen.

 

If the separation ends Monday I think we will be able to tell from the flow of the episode if that was the plan all along or written in somehow. Either way--fans are not going to be happy with anything less than 100% all in.

Personally, I don't think it will happen--at least not the way many want. Time will tell....

[Bubbi63]

The closest I can come up with, depending how you interpret moving the ball down the field, is from TV Guide Nov 8

Does that mean a reconciliation is in the cards? After all, the Nov. 23 episode -- the fall finale -- is titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Although executive producer Alexi Hawley notes that's a bit a play off Mr. and Mrs. Smith, he acknowledges that the episode is a big step forward in the relationship. "We definitely move the ball down the field in terms of the conspiracy and the effect it's having on their relationship," he says. "It ends with the promise of what's to come in a way that people will be excited about."

Thank You--that sounds pretty close and now that I think about it the title of the Ep was what caused the questions.  It will be really interesting to see how many fans are excited on Tuesday.

[VinceW]

"We definitely move the ball down the field in terms of the conspiracy and the effect it's having on their relationship," he says. "It ends with the promise of what's to come in a way that people will be excited about."

Marlowe speak for the separation will be dragged out as long as possible provided the network hasn't already forced a change since that comment.  If Beckett comes to realize that keeping secrets from Castle almost gets him killed, then there is no reason for them to be living apart any longer. For some strange reason, the new producers seem content on keeping things ambiguous even though the separation arc continues to lose viewers and some media reviews of the episodes now include comments which assume that many fans have stopped watching LIVE as part of their analysis.

Edited November 23, 2015 by VinceW

[tljgator]

From Matt at TV|Line:

 

 

Does anything good happen in the Castle fall finale (airing Monday)? –Barry
Since I just got done watching it, why don’t I give you a taste of what happens and then you can decide/debate what is “good”?
1) We learn the (unconventional) location of where Vikram and Beckett will be conducting their super-secret LokSat snooping from here on.
2) The Case of the Week is handled almost exclusively by Rick and Kate, together.
3) “Lucy” makes a return!
4) Those who have rightfully complained that Rick A) hasn’t taken Kate to task enough for the abrupt “time out” and B) seems poised to forgive and forget should (should!) be somewhat pleased with some of the angry things he gets to say this Monday.
5) Will Rick’s covert investigation of Kate’s mystery text bring them back together, or blow things up in an irreversible way? Possible hint: One of the marrieds at one point frets, “I just hope I didn’t nuke my marriage.”

[verdana]

Well at least that answers the question will Castle get angry but I'm wary that it's going to descend into a scene of him flinging insults at her left, right and centre but their issues are not being properly addressed. 

 

I'd rather have Rick get angry at her at first but then calm down and we hear a serious more nuanced measured exchange taking place but that's probably raising my expectations too far, it sounds unlikely to happen based on that teaser.