Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[McManda]

As dumb as it sounds (and probably what they wanted), I'm somewhat comforted by the soundbites from tptb. It doesn't sound like they're taking "reboot" mode super seriously, which is nice. It's also a nice reinforcement that TPW and Hawley are still aboard with the idea that the show has been centered around Castle and Beckett's love story and to mess with that now, after everything, would be show suicide at this point. If Ausiello's blind item is Castle (I'm honestly still on the fence, but I see how a lot of people are crying foul about it) I don't think it's going to as world-shattering as he made it out to be.

 

First, we all knew the chance of Beckett actually trying her chances at being a senator was about 0.0000005%, right? No surprises there.

 

Second, in terms of Castle investigating with Haley, it might be an interesting angle for him to be the one that's advocating the straight and narrow path, considering he's spent 7 years with Beckett and now has this reputation of being married to an NYPD captain. It might be fun if she's the one wanting to do things her own way (like Castle used to) and Castle having to be the voice of reason.

 

Third, yes to seeing more of Ryan's family. I'd go for some screen time from Sarah Grace.

 

Fourth, it's nice to know that Gates didn't suffer the same fate of Montgomery and has also moved up in the NYPD world. I'd totally be open for her making guest spots.

 

I think this is the first time I've been excited about S8 instead of annoyed with the speculation, so I guess those media bites did their jobs.

[Gant]

Second, in terms of Castle investigating with Haley, it might be an interesting angle for him to be the one that's advocating the straight and narrow path, considering he's spent 7 years with Beckett and now has this reputation of being married to an NYPD captain. It might be fun if she's the one wanting to do things her own way (like Castle used to) and Castle having to be the voice of reason.

Agreed, this could be fun (in a good way) if handled right. I'm also not against separate storylines for Castle and Beckett if they'll help to deepen and broaden these characters. Most of my indifference to Caskett (settled in the seasons 3-4) had to do with the feeling that the characters individually were becoming less engaging, interesting, deep and believable. I can't ship two characters if I don't believe in them as real people, if it doesn't feel like two people coming together, but rather as two flat constructs coming together for the purpose of mechanically calculated "RST". I still could enjoy them separately from time to time (because I didn't really take them seriously), but almost everything about the romance part looked forced to me. More than that, I saw (or imagined that I saw) how they both were flattened and mutilated just to fit them into this RST mould, among other ones. So it only added to my Caskett fatigue. IMO of course.

 

So in the best case scenario (for me) they deepen and further develop both characters, rid them of trite tropes and TV standards, and then I might even start to believe again in their romantic connection.

 

Daydreaming, don't mind me.

[KaveDweller]

Second, in terms of Castle investigating with Haley, it might be an interesting angle for him to be the one that's advocating the straight and narrow path, considering he's spent 7 years with Beckett and now has this reputation of being married to an NYPD captain. It might be fun if she's the one wanting to do things her own way (like Castle used to) and Castle having to be the voice of reason.

 

I was thinking the same thing, it could show a lot of growth for him.

 

Don't assume their can't be both. 

 

Well, I guess it can be both, but then aren't we talking about two different shows? Beckett and the precinct and Castle with Haley and they never have reason to intersect?  That would suck.  I can deal with reduced interaction between them as long as there is still some and as long as a personal split doesn't last all season.

[Castle89]

Another article, this one from TVGuide, giving us info on what Vikram Singh's, new tech guy, roll will be. http://www.tvguide.com/news/castle-season-8-captain-beckett/?ftag=soshare

 

Nathan's interview reminds me of the one he did about 6x23 calling it "a light" episode. He just sealed the deal for me. I'm now 100% sure they'll be split professionally, and personally. Now which part of the relationship is fixed first? That's the one I'm not sure about, but Stana seemed to have possibly given us a clue when she said 20 eps. So I'm preparing myself for Castle to sit in my DVR for days before I watch, if that's the case. 

 

As for the false hope Nathan and this Reporter gave fans, oh man I feel sorry for them both.

[Castle89]

Glamour has an small quote form Tamala.

 

[Although stars Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic were not in attendance, their co-star Tamala Jones filled us in on how Castle will change in the upcoming season. "It's a very different type of a Castle season. It's amazing, it's more fun, more mysterious." She also went on to add that "Castle is revamping and remodeling his private investigation office with secret passageways and gadgets."]

 

Seems the word of the season is "fun." 6x23 was "fun" for writers, not so much most viewers. http://www.glamour.com/entertainment/blogs/obsessed/2015/08/tv-scoop-on-scandal-greys-anat

[McManda]

To be fair to Nathan, most of 6x23 was light. Dumb, but light. IMO, it wasn't until the end that it all went downhill, and even then I'd argue that it wasn't in a heavy way because everyone knew Castle wasn't dead even if they tried to tease that he might be.

 

I'm of the same opinion of a potential personal split: if it happens, it's not because Castle and Beckett want it to be so. It's an outside force thing, which is a totally different ballgame than Castle or Beckett deciding to actually ask for a separation/divorce, and it's also not something permanent. Everyone (except Ausiello, if his blind item is Castle/Beckett) seems to be pretty adamant that Castle and Beckett are endgame.

 

Now which part of the relationship is fixed first? That's the one I'm not sure about, but Stana seemed to have possibly given us a clue when she said 20 eps.

 

I think I missed this soundbite ... can you link? I'd like some context.

[madmaverick]

Despite being unsure about some of the spoilers for next season, I have to say I'm still feeling more upbeat than I was last hiatus when I was just so annoyed by what Milmar did with the ex-husband from nowhere and aborted wedding, which felt like the ultimate joke on us, after a season of stale wedding planning and a horrible wedding dress.  And I wasn't convinced by Marlowe/Amann's abilities to write a good story out of Castle's disappearance.  Maybe it's a reservoir of faith in TPW's writing abilities and what fresh eyes can bring, but I'm keeping an open mind about changes till we see it on screen.  Or maybe I need a break from the negative speculation. ;)

 

That said, I'll be wanting a good dose of Caskett together on screen after the hiatus and it doesn't look like we'll be getting it in the first 2 episodes.  Let's hope they'll be more engaging than the first 2 episodes last season from Marlowe and Amann, which weren't very good imo.  The new team will want people invested in the mystery of the 2 perspectives and whatever they are setting up from the get go.  They've resolved the mystery of Beckett's career dilemma so there needs to be more to keep people hooked in the premiere.  And fingers and toes crossed that they've put a pin in Beckett's would be political career for good!  Never made sense to me for the character or for the show, other than that Milmar wanted it. ;)  To go in that direction would just indulge their "vision" of the future rather than build it based on the characters.

 

Mary McDonnell's lead Captain character on Major Crimes does everything from being on the crime scene to getting in on the action in interrogation, the bullpen, tech room, morgue, politics with her supervisor etc., so I wouldn't be worried about Beckett not being in on the action.  I'm actually more interested to see her doing the different kind of work a Captain does, at least for starters, so that we can see how she deals with new challenges, rather than just see her back as Detective Beckett straight away except with a different title.  And exploring the new relationship between her and Esposito and Ryan and others that comes with her new promotion and authority should be interesting, and not just played for laughs, I hope.  The awkwardness and adjustment period is a real thing.  I wouldn't mind seeing Esposito and Ryan and others competing for Beckett's previous lead detective position.  And I want to see Beckett unleash the Beckett glare on some green newbie heh.  

 

I can see them having Castle dragged into the precinct on a regular basis like a naughty school boy with Beckett painted as the nagging wife. Yeesh.

 

Hopefully not.  But I fear that's one dynamic along with Castle having an Alexis freakout that is never going away.  Balance is key.  They can't make it ridiculous. Balance it with some charm and sweetness and sexy and maturity.
 

Sounds like Hayley is going to the alpha in this partnership as Castle gets steamrollered.

 

 

Because they don't seem to write anything but alpha females on Castle, and write alpha males at the same time!  It doesn't have to be an either/or.  Strong women love strong men, not steamrollered men.  Hayley may be the new Castle (but dressed like Beckett of course!) in terms of being the rule breaker, while Castle may be the new Beckett?  But I think he's more fun when he's not the put upon character.

 

George is the "Eyewitness News Entertainment Guru" apparently.

 

 

You mean the ENEG? :P  Heh.  I'm just imagining Ann Cusack's character swooping in, dressed in all mysterious black of course ;), and saying, "Do you know who I am? I'm from [insert secret org acronym of your choice]. Or S.H.I.E.L.D. for more ABC crossover promotion. ;)

 

During the PI arc, Castle was talking about writing a new series, I guess about a PI. It would be nice if they had him write something that was actually creative fiction and not just his life with slightly different names.

 

 

That does make sense for any writer, but in the realm of the Castle universe, I like that the Nikki Heat books relates to his life with Beckett and I hope he doesn't stop writing them even if he explores new creative avenues.  And I still don't want anyone to be his muse but Beckett.  It was bad enough that Marlowe decided he had another one previously.  As bad an idea as his Senate idea.

 

I deleted the set stuff from yesterday I posted to avoid confusion. Basically they've redecorated both Castle's PI office and also the Captain's office in the Precinct for Beckett.

I missed your posts from yesterday.  So, if you or anyone don't mind clarifying, are they building a new (permanent?) set at all as I thought they were?  I'm hoping Beckett will still be staying at the loft.

 

And I hope Castle's chair by Beckett's desk will be relocated to her new office and not gone for good.  Will make me sad if it's gone for good.

 

Thanks for all the Bones info.  Can't say it makes me want to watch that show. :P

[Castle89]

To be fair to Nathan, most of 6x23 was light. Dumb, but light. IMO, it wasn't until the end that it all went downhill, and even then I'd argue that it wasn't in a heavy way because everyone knew Castle wasn't dead even if they tried to tease that he might be.

 

I'm of the same opinion of a potential personal split: if it happens, it's not because Castle and Beckett want it to be so. It's an outside force thing, which is a totally different ballgame than Castle or Beckett deciding to actually ask for a separation/divorce, and it's also not something permanent. Everyone (except Ausiello, if his blind item is Castle/Beckett) seems to be pretty adamant that Castle and Beckett are endgame.

 

 

I think I missed this soundbite ... can you link? I'd like some context.

http://deadline.com/2015/07/castle-stana-katic-season-8-abc-1201485528/

 

[Katic called Episodes 1 and 2 of Season 8 “brother and sister.” Each reflects Castle and Beckett’s perspective on “an event that shifts the entire season into a higher velocity” and “is part of what will set everything up for the next 20 episodes.”] 

 

I'm not sure it's that exactly, but she tends to give us clues at times. 

Also I'm sorry if I'm posting the articles in the wrong board, let me know if I need to move them or not.  Thank you.

[metaphor]

TVGuide's take on what's coming up has quotes from TPW. We learn a wee bit more about Vikram as well (which kinda makes me wonder what Lanie will be doing). 

[madmaverick]

Castle will also be adding two new players this season: security specialist Hayley Shipton (Toks Olagundoye), and tech analyst Vikram Singh (Sunkrish Bala), who will become Beckett's "conifdant" in the precinct Hawley says.

 

Have to admit my instinctive reaction is to not like Beckett having any other confidant than Castle, just as I don't want him to have any other muse than Beckett.  Even if Castle isn't at the precinct, I'd like to see them have scenes at home where Beckett confides in him about her new challenges as Captain, rather to some new employee at the precinct, which doesn't make a lot of sense for someone like Beckett.  They are probably going to have Beckett getting close to Vikram because her new position changes things between her and the boys.  Until he's revealed to be "high strung" and with a secret agenda of course. ;)   Ha, but maybe better Vikram than Esposito being her confidante if we really have to go there. ;)

 

Shipton instead of Vargas.  To make her sound more British?  Wasn't there a British mass murderer by that name?  No offence to any Shiptons here!  Is she going to keep throwing Scotland Yard at Castle?  And bringing back our bad memories of Hunt ugh.  

 

which kinda makes me wonder what Lanie will be doing

 

The usual 'lividity', if she's lucky?  Maybe it's the actress who plays tech Tory who should be worried.  But I think she's got a new job as a lead in another project.

Edited August 5, 2015 by madmaverick

[McManda]

[Katic called Episodes 1 and 2 of Season 8 “brother and sister.” Each reflects Castle and Beckett’s perspective on “an event that shifts the entire season into a higher velocity” and “is part of what will set everything up for the next 20 episodes.”]

 

I'm not sure it's that exactly, but she tends to give us clues at times.

 

Thanks!

 

Honestly, to me that sounds like she just means that the two-part premiere sets up the next twenty episodes of the season. (Their full season order was 22 episodes, so the two-part premiere + 20 other episodes = season 8 [but I wouldn't be surprised to hear there was a 23rd episode added in, just like it's happened every other season]). Kind of like Castle's disappearance set their season long arc for S7, or finding out Bracken was behind her mom's killer set up S5. 

 

Mostly I think TPW and Hawley (I'm going to start calling him AH, just to fit the theme of initials with TPW) know better than to separate Castle and Beckett for an entire season. They can't be that dumb to what sort of outrage that would case in the fanbase.

[KaveDweller]

Have to admit my instinctive reaction is to not like Beckett having any other confidant than Castle, just as I don't want him to have any other muse than Beckett.  Even if Castle isn't at the precinct, I'd like to see them have scenes at home where Beckett confides in him about her new challenges as Captain, rather to some new employee at the precinct, which doesn't make a lot of sense for someone like Beckett.  They are probably going to have Beckett getting close to Vikram because her new position changes things between her and the boys.  Until he's revealed to be "high strung" and with a secret agenda of course. ;)   Ha, but maybe better Vikram than Esposito being her confidante if we really have to go there. ;)

 

 

I took that to mean he filled her in on stuff that was going on in the precinct, which Castle wouldn't really be privy too.  Otherwise I agree, I don't like Castle and Beckett getting close with other people.

[madmaverick]

English version of the Italian article above from the reporter herself:

http://www.beatricebelli.it/2015/08/exclusive-spoilers-on-castle-season-8-premiere/

 

So it sounds like Nathan was only talking about Caskett being a couple in 801/802, or that only the first 2 episodes were discussed.

 

So what comes up that is so big and mysterious that Beckett can't tell Castle about it (and/or vice versa, not entirely sure about the structure of the 2 parter)?  And presumably, eventually leads to them being at odds with one another.  A bit much if Beckett gets a mysterious phone call from Bracken day 1 on the job as Capt.

 

I hope they don't split because they feel personally betrayed or distrust the other after whatever incident that blows up their relationship, if any. That would be a real blow to a marriage.  Still hoping for a forced separation due to uncontrollable events, but that could be wishful thinking.

Edited August 5, 2015 by madmaverick

[madmaverick]

Enjoy the feeling, Hal. :P

 

It's bumming me out that we can't think of something that the writers whom we've criticised for being tropey and uncreative have thought of.  C'mon, peeps!  

 

You make it sound like it's something obvious rather than some wild theory.

[KaveDweller]

Who said they would never interact? I wouldn't assume that either.   I'm just saying if people are sighing in relief thinking it's only a work split, then they will be disappointed. 

 

It's also another assumption that because they "split" professionally that means they won't actually work together solving cases.  Come on, I get being upset but think about the formula of the show. Think about what you have already seen. 

 

I just can't think of why two people who split personally and don't work together would spend time together. I'm sure they'll do some cases like in the PI arc where there's overlap, but like I said then, I'm not sure how long that can work for.

 

Well if Marlowe was still around I'd use the history of the show as a basis for what to expect, but with new show runners I don't know what to expect.

 

It's bumming me out that we can't think of something that the writers whom we've criticised for being tropey and uncreative have thought of.  C'mon, peeps!

 

Someone called me creative at work today, and all I could think was how I'm not creative enough to guess what's going on with Castle S8.....

Edited August 5, 2015 by KaveDweller

[FlickerToAFlame]

If they have to split up due to an outside force, maybe they sneak meetings in? That could make up for the breakup if they do it right.

[BellyLaughter]

I just can't think of why two people who split personally and don't work together would spend time together......

That's the bit that stumps me! we accuse the writers of being lazy and unimaginative yet none of us can come up with a good guess on what's happening -- that's kind of hilarious!!

[McManda]

I've gotta go with the fairly obvious and unoriginal idea that they split personally, not because they want to, but because they feel they have to. That can either me in actuality, or just for show, and then they have to figure out ways to be together without compromising whatever reason they split for. Most obvious and unoriginal is Bracken is back and threatening, so they split (again, not because they want to, and it can be "real" (ie: Beckett leaves the loft) or just for show (ie: they pretend to be broken up but everyone that matters knows otherwise and plays along), and then they sneak around and find ways to work and be together without blowing their story. It has the potential of the failed "don't let our friends know we're together" arc they tried in the beginning of S5 but that failed to materialize on screen. Either way, it's a split without being a split; it's a split in name only.

 

Also ... completely unrelated, but I kind of hate that the new tech guy's name is Vikrum. All I can think of is the episode of Friends where Ross tells Mike that Phoebe had never been in a serious relationship and then to try to cover his faux pas he invents a former fiancee named Vikrum that he defends with "what? it's a real name!". I cannot think of anything else at this point.

Edited August 5, 2015 by McManda

[tessaray]

I suppose if Rick were on trial or under suspicion then they might have to split to not tank Kate's career but could still work together trying to solve the case.

ETA: Castle has several failed marriages. I suppose that the show could make it look like he reverted to his old ways for reasons. Trial separation and attempts at reconciliation ensue?

Edited August 5, 2015 by tessaray

[madmaverick]

That's the bit that stumps me! we accuse the writers of being lazy and unimaginative yet none of us can come up with a good guess on what's happening -- that's kind of hilarious!!

And ironic! 

 

If they have to split up due to an outside force, maybe they sneak meetings in? That could make up for the breakup if they do it right.

 

And we could finally get the hot and sexy secret sneaking around together that we never really got during the secret 'honeymoon' period.  Except it could be even better because it'd be mixed with yearning and passion due to the serious circumstances that forced the separation.  Maybe the writers have been thinking it's been hard to bring the spark of the UST from the WTWT days to a happily married couple, hence their plans.

 

Also ... completely unrelated, but I kind of hate that the new tech guy's name is Vikrum

 

There are lots of Indian people named Vikram so that's fine with me.  But it is making me think of Bkiram yoga and my Vibrams heh.  And I'm thinking of Hawley every time Hayley comes up.  Should stick to calling him AH.  I know a lot of you hate combined names, but typing out TPW and AH is a handful!

 

Also wanted to laugh when one of the articles said TPW or AH were asked about Ryan's family life.  Am I the only one who couldn't care less about his and Esposito's personal lives at this point?  That ship has kind of sailed for me.  Sorry, but I don't really care about Jenny and baby, because they never really made me care.  

[BellyLaughter]

 

Also wanted to laugh when one of the articles said TPW or AH were asked about Ryan's family life.  Am I the only one who couldn't care less about his and Esposito's personal lives at this point?  That ship has kind of sailed for me.  Sorry, but I don't really care about Jenny and baby, because they never really made me care.  

 

I was gonna ask the same question......7 seasons and I still don't care about Ryan and Esposito outside of their roles as fellow detectives....even saying they are close friends is a stretch thanks to the criminally neglected way those 2 characters have been written.  I will say I can't wait to see how they play the new dynamic at the precinct now Beckett is their Captain!  Lots of comedy to be mined there......surely??

Edited August 6, 2015 by BellyLaughter

[WendyCR72]

I will say I can't wait to see how they play the new dynamic at the precinct now Beckett is their Captain!  Lots of comedy to be mined there......surely??

 

I'd think a good dose of drama would be mined, too. Beckett goes from almost-but-not-quite equal (as she always seemed "above" Esposito and Ryan, yet all were under Montgomery and then Gates) and friend to boss. That can't be easy. I could even see some irrational resentment or whatever.

[FlickerToAFlame]

AH keeps promising "romance," this season. Did you get that from what you've been privy to, Hal?

[verdana]

Why does Beckett need a confident at the precinct? I hate that idea irrational though it may be even if it's just someone to cosy up to at work because Espo and Ryan are being difficult. She's not the confiding type for starters, it took her ages to trust Castle and feel relaxed enough so to have her suddenly spilling stuff to this guy she's only known for a short time seems off to me and what about poor old Lanie? Wasn't she her best pal years ago? Clearly not any more.  I'd much rather see her confiding in Castle first and foremost about what's bothering her not some highly strung tech bloke. 

 

"Castle is revamping and remodeling his private investigation office with secret passageways and gadgets."

 

Secret passageways WTF!  What is this show turning into exactly?  The more I hear the crazier it sounds. 

 

Shipton instead of Vargas.  To make her sound more British?  Wasn't there a British mass murderer by that name?

 

 

Close but not quite, it was Harold Shipman a doctor he murdered 15 patients. 

 

Having fun Hal? We'll get there eventually. 

 

 

 

 

[KaveDweller]

And also you are asking WHY they would spend time together? Um because that's why you break a couple up. So they audience can watch them come back together...

That's why the writers would make them spend time together. But in theory people on a show should do things for reasons other than what the writers want. So there should be a real reason, like the split is all fake to begin with.

But if it's fake they shouldn't be working together because that gives it away. But if it's played as they need to be apart for safety, but keep being drawn together and can't help themselves, it could be fun.

[McManda]

Fingers crossed I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp. But really, if someone here has inadvertently touched on whatever they have planned, then I think I'll be okay.

 

I'm going to expand my guess and say something happens to Castle and Beckett "leaves". (I will continue to put that in quotation marks because it's either faked or not genuine. If she really leaves, my guess is it lasts all of the first episode (well, I'll say episode 3 because 1 and 2 are the same story but from different sides) before Castle figures it out and they decide to deal with it together instead of being Beckett and sacrificing her happiness for the "greater good".)

 

So XY is Castle's version of things, ending with Beckett leaving and he doesn't know why. XX is Beckett's version of things, where we figure out why she left and we're less mad about it. And then in episode 3 they're on the same page about whatever outside threat made Beckett make the decision she did, and we (hopefully) get to see some of that unrequited tension of them wanting to be together without actually being together, but it'll be better (hopefully) because they can be together in secret. And then I have no doubt that it'll be resolved eventually, it's just a matter of how long they want to draw that out, and I'd guess that'll depend largely on audience reactions. November sweeps? Christmas? February sweeps? The finale? Or will it be resolved quietly, like Pi?

 

That sounds stupid and confusing typed out. I swear it makes more sense in my head.

 

Secret passageways WTF!

 

Beckett's gotta get in and out of his PI office without being seen somehow. ;)

Edited August 6, 2015 by McManda

[verdana]

I was gonna ask the same question......7 seasons and I still don't care about Ryan and Esposito outside of their roles as fellow detectives....even saying they are close friends is a stretch thanks to the criminally neglected way those 2 characters have been written.

 

 

I could write what I know about the secondary cast and their private lives on the back of a fag packet and have room left over that's how badly they've been neglected and the writers wonder why many fans are so indifferent even hostile about episodes concentrating on them for an hour. Why should they care?  They need to give fans a reason to be invested in these people and they really haven't. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by verdana

[metaphor]

It's not fake. People really need to let that go.  That will probably help move this along or else I might have to ban myself from the board because I can't take anymore of that. 

 

The only reasons characters do anything is because the writers make them do it, based on who the characters are is how the motivations and choices come about, so I'm not sure how to respond to the "there needs to be another reason". 

 

It think you and others are getting hung up because everyone is assuming this split is a mutual decision. Not sure where that came from. 

He becomes the confident due to WHY he is there. As I typed this I realize that won't make you like it more ha!

 

I was initially thinking it wasn't a mutual decision and most likely Beckett's decision. But when you mentioned that they weren't "at odds," I figured it might be mutual after all. 

 

Gosh. I go back and forth with all this spec and the many ways the show can go. Thanks for the little tidbits you throw in, anyway, halwideman. They're appreciated!

[McManda]

Take out some of the wishful thinking and ladies and gentleman tell her what she's won.

 

I was just spitballing. I honestly don't know if you're being facetious or not. I think yes? You don't really have to answer (I know things get taken out of context and spread around the interwebz), I just don't know how to take that comment. :/

Edited August 6, 2015 by McManda

[FlickerToAFlame]

So Nathan's interviews today where he supposedly said the breakup is only professional were flat out lies (or misdirect)? Not saying I'm mad at him, he can't give everything away. I just worry for the safety of the craziest fans who now have their hopes up and are going to be sucker punched when the shows air.

[madmaverick]

Congrats, McManda?  

 

OK, so the break up is real, and not a mutual decision.  Something dangerous happened to Castle (clue from that pic AH tweeted of Caskett) and Beckett leaves him to keep him safe.  Read some fics which went with this storyline post S3 shooting.  Not sure if it'll feel like it makes sense now that they are a till death do us part married couple, but we'll see.  I am also hoping it doesn't get stretched out for too many episodes, or at least it doesn't take too long for Castle to figure it out even if they disagree about her choice because I don't want to be written as clueless, and also, always better together.

 

Is the wishful thinking part about how long this arc will take?  

 

Thanks for the hints and the answers, Hal.

 

"Castle is revamping and remodeling his private investigation office with secret passageways and gadgets."

 

I'm up for this since I'm a geek like that.  Would love it if his PI office was a homage to all fictional PI greats & Bond.  Of course Beckett's gifts to him have to have a place of honour.  I'd like to see something representing their other half in each of their new offices. 

 

Flicker, who knows if something was lost in translation or lost in context.  It's the reporter's interpretation of whatever he said.  Nathan may or may not be able to give the ending of the 2 parter away, or maybe he meant that they were still a couple in that Castle didn't agree with any break up decision, that they were still a couple in his mind.  He gets flack for saying 623 was a lighter episode, but again, I think it depends on how you perceive it.  It did aspire to have a more comedic tone until the final few melodramatic seconds.  But yeah, I foresee bashing either way. ;)

[McManda]

Now I'm laughing because even when someone flat out tells you that you figured it out you guys miss it and or second guess it.

 

Oh man, please don't take this the wrong way, because I know and respect why you do it, but you're not the most direct person. The biggest downfall of this board is tone is so subjective ... and I clearly suck at it. (If you need/want me to edit all this, too, let me know. I don't want to be fandom famous if someone is trawling this board for ideas.)

 

So Nathan's interviews today where he supposedly said the breakup is only professional were flat out lies (or misdirect)?

 

It's not really a lie or misdirect if they're separated in name only, is it? Not together in public, but no one (but us?, and maybe the people they trust: Alexis, Martha, Espo, Ryan, Lanie) sees what goes on behind closed doors (figuratively, of course. Or not).

Edited August 6, 2015 by McManda

[McManda]

No offense taken but I'm always direct when I tell someone they are wrong, you know that first hand. So why would I be less direct telling someone they are right?

 

Fair point. :)

 

But let's be honest, this isn't going to stop the questions or the speculation, you have to know that, right? LOL.

 

For example, my idea is a vague skeleton. So ... how long before Castle figures it out? How hard does he fight her on it? (I can deal with the first two episodes. Much more than that and the writers are heading into shaky territory.) When and how do they work things out? Are they really going to sneak around? (I think that could be fun.) How do you feel about these developments? (Also, most of these questions are merely examples and are also facetious.) Is the secret passage to smuggle Beckett in and out?! Is Vikrum the security guy ... Castle's security? A liaison between Castle and Beckett while they're "separated"?

 

Okay, I'll be done now. :) :)

 

But I will say I wouldn't look for Caskett to be sneaking around and to secretly be together. There is no angst or pay off in that. That's more comedic and I don't believe that is the intention. However it doesn't mean there won't be good moments along the way.

 

That's not super reassuring, but I don't think it necessarily has to be comedic. I think there can be angst (if that's what they're trying for) or tension letting them be together without fully being together. Because I'm still a little on the fence about what could happen that could be so bad that Beckett feels like they can't tackle it together. I mean, Castle's already died ... how many times? He was shot at close range, for goodness sake. I mean, it's gotta be something very literal like "hey, divorce him now or he dies tonight" and not some misguided Beckett honor thing to try and keep him safe.

 

And again, angst is good, but only for a little while. After that it's tired and frustrating, especially if people don't see the end. I don't think it's sustainable for a whole season, definitely.

Edited August 6, 2015 by McManda

[madmaverick]

I think you will forgive me but I'm going to pull back on details now. But I will say I wouldn't look for Caskett to be sneaking around and to secretly be together. There is no angst or pay off in that. That's more comedic and I don't believe that is the intention. However it doesn't mean there won't be good moments along the way.

Ah I feel so much better now.

 

Glad you're feeling better. ;)   Hopefully we're all feeling better now that one level of frustration (speculation) has ended, and another one can begin, heh.

 

In that case, I'll be hoping for lots of yearning and pining, because I have missed that element of the relationship since the WT/WT days.  Maybe Castle will even wage a romantic campaign to win Beckett over again to his side of seeing things.  Persistence when it comes to Beckett has always been his trait.  And one can dream of romance even amidst the angst, right? ;)

 

If it were Marlowe crafting an angst arc, I'd be feeling much more pessimistic, because to me, their track record has shown they can't write one well.  Well done angst can be a very strong dramatic engine, but I will say that it's a delicate line between angst that makes you frustrated in a bad way with the characters and angst that makes you want to keep rooting for them, hard.  Let's hope the new team come down on the right side of that and hits all the right emotional notes. 

 

Also because of the way things are on set (another things fans are in denial about) I was concerned with how the writer's would handle things. Not going to say anymore on that because it's been discussed to death. However I'm now no longer concerned.

 

I always want to believe that things are happier on set because while bts has been speculated upon, it's still a mystery that hasn't really been solved, definitively?  And I always want to believe things can change for the better in time.  But maybe that is the real wishful thinking here.

 

Just watched an interview with Kermit the Frog where he discusses his breakup with Miss Piggy and he's asked about how it's like working with an ex on a TV show and staying professional... ;)

Edited August 6, 2015 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

It's not fake. People really need to let that go. That will probably help move this along or else I might have to ban myself from the board because I can't take anymore of that.

The only reasons characters do anything is because the writers make them do it, based on who the characters are is how the motivations and choices come about, so I'm not sure how to respond to the "there needs to be another reason".

It think you and others are getting hung up because everyone is assuming this split is a mutual decision. Not sure where that came from.

He becomes the confident due to WHY he is there. As I typed this I realize that won't make you like it more ha!

I wasn't assuming it was a mutual decision, I was hoping it was a mutual decision. I've been saying that for awhile.

But now I know its not, so thanks for confirming. A lot of variations on The same basic theory have been batted around in the past few days and it honestly wasn't clear what you were confirming/denying. I mean that in the nicest way possible, I really appreciate your info. I just wasn't sure what you meant before.

Regarding there needs to be a reason, I just mean characters need to have motivation for what they do. A writer should never just say Castle and Beckett work on the same case because we need a reason for them to be together. There should be organic reasons for how each of them ended up on the case.

[BellyLaughter]

 

And again, angst is good, but only for a little while. After that it's tired and frustrating, especially if people don't see the end. I don't think it's sustainable for a whole season, definitely.

 

I guess angst is "borrowed time" in TV land and just how much "time" the audience in prepared to give you boils down to how well executed said angst is.....from what little we do know this sounds like it has the potential to be interesting but as Hal said some people will hate it and some will be cautiously optimistic.  It will be interesting to see which way the pendulum swings.  Will there be more outcry or more "lets see where this takes us"  I guess that will play a part in determining if we will have to endure this all season or it will all be over by November sweeps??  

 

One thing I am looking forward to is watching the smug fans who are currently admonishing anyone who dares suggest that Ausiello's blind item is Caskett looking a little less smug when the break up happens.  Is is sad that that is at the top of my list of things to look forward too come Sep 21st????  Maybe it's a little childish but after being called a conspiracy theorist for simply putting 2 and 2 together I feel entitled to a moment of childishness!

[FlickerToAFlame]

At first I was really upset about this season because full disclosure, I thought they were bringing in Hayley to replace Beckett incase Stana doesn't want to sign next year. But I was wrong about that one, as I don't always get the whole picture and at the end of the day, I'm a fan too. Also because of the way things are on set (another things fans are in denial about) I was concerned with how the writer's would handle things. Not going to say anymore on that because it's been discussed to death.

Not to beat a dead horse, but which fans are in denial, the ones who want Stana/Nathan to be in love in real life or the ones who think they don't like each other?

[BellyLaughter]

I would never expect to stop speculation. That's not my goal. But I was the kid that told her mom what she bought her for Christmas over the summer. I have a terrible time sitting on big things. It gets even more terrible when I read things that are absolutely wrong. Case in point I never felt so vindicated in my life when Stana did that deadline interview and told EVERYONE that it was never a big deal about her resigning. Score for me. Because that drove me crazy too. However I know it's not all about me. But this is pretty small board and I think we have all gotten to know each other and we sort of accept the posters for how they are. 

 

All that being said I can't answer any story questions beyond this. But you did ask how I felt so I will tell you that. I like it. But that doesn't mean anything because everyone knows I have liked everything in the entire series except for two things. So you can't go by me. I also tend to enjoy angst, while others don't. I am well aware that there is no reason why they couldn't write a happy in love couple solving cases. However I think this is a good reboot of sorts because it kind of starts everything from the beginning except this time the "will they or won't they" is already in love from day one.  To me that's a little bit different then just breaking up a couple because you are bored or can't think of a better story. 

 

At first I was really upset about this season because full disclosure, I thought they were bringing in Hayley to replace Beckett incase Stana doesn't want to sign next year. But I was wrong about that one, as I don't always get the whole picture and at the end of the day, I'm a fan too. Also because of the way things are on set (another things fans are in denial about) I was concerned with how the writer's would handle things. Not going to say anymore on that because it's been discussed to death. However I'm now no longer concerned.  My only gripe with this season is that towards the end we will be in the same place it was last year,  and I want this show to have a really great send off, but you can't do that unless you know the end is coming. Other than that I am good. Now I'm shutting up, sitting on my hands or maybe cutting them off. 

 

Sadly we are relying on ego, money and more money when it comes to making decisions.  I sadly have given up on Castle having it's really good send off.  If only we lived in a perfect world and everyone at the network, studio, cast and crew agreed on this being the final season to give it the send off it deserves and the story the ending it deserves but I know the industry never works that way.  I kind of get the impression that ABC would turn this show upsidedown and inside out to keep it on air for lack of a better alternative and that's where the ego and money ruins things....as a TV fan you can't avoid it.  You just have to brace for the impact.

[KaveDweller]

That's not super reassuring, but I don't think it necessarily has to be comedic. I think there can be angst (if that's what they're trying for) or tension letting them be together without fully being together. Because I'm still a little on the fence about what could happen that could be so bad that Beckett feels like they can't tackle it together. I mean, Castle's already died ... how many times? He was shot at close range, for goodness sake. I mean, it's gotta be something very literal like "hey, divorce him now or he dies tonight" and not some misguided Beckett honor thing to try and keep him safe.

And again, angst is good, but only for a little while. After that it's tired and frustrating, especially if people don't see the end. I don't think it's sustainable for a season, definitely.

Yeah in a battle of angst versus comedy, I don't think angst should always win. If this split actually lasts all season it will get really frustrating. A few episodes, fine. But I want to get more if Caskett as a happy couple before the end of next season, especially if it is the last one.

Because if they are apart all season and get a rushed reunion, why should we believe it's going to be solid moving forward. It reminds me of how Ross and Rachel got together and we were supposed to buy it would be smooth sailing that time.

[madmaverick]

If Castle were a cable show, then we might have a better chance of having a well written ending planned in advance.  But Castle has been such a procedural show, maybe it wouldn't make a huge difference to the writers if they didn't have much notice of the end.  I'm not looking for another round of WT/WT contract renewal drama so hopefully we can know definitively one way or another in time.

 

I don't think it's wishful thinking that things can get better on set. It's a work place, shit happens. Look at how the X Files is now? ;)

 

That is a good case in point.  It's like a delayed lovefest.  Although I doubt there will be a Castle revival down the line to allow their paths to cross again professionally.  But never say never.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but which fans are in denial, the ones who want Stana/Nathan to be in love in real life or the ones who think they don't like each other?

 

I'm inclined to believe that they were, then they weren't, and so now they don't. ;)

[BellyLaughter]

If Castle were a cable show, then we might have a better chance of having a well written ending planned in advance.  But Castle has been such a procedural show, maybe it wouldn't make a huge difference to the writers if they didn't have much notice of the end.  I'm not looking for another round of WT/WT contract renewal drama so hopefully we can know definitively one way or another in time.

 

That is a good case in point.  It's like a delayed lovefest.  Although I doubt there will be a Castle revival down the line to allow their paths to cross again professionally.  But never say never.

 

I'm inclined to believe that they were, then they weren't, and so now they don't. ;)

 

Like they say...never shit where you eat??? LOL  I don't know and I don't want to know and I wish more fans would just let it go!! 

Edited August 6, 2015 by BellyLaughter

[McManda]

I like angst to a point. I still think my favorite part of the series (other than the obvious) is the sucker punch feeling I get when Castle sees Beckett kissing Demming at the end of S2. I don't know why, but I think that hurt more than Castle leaving with Gina in the next episode.

 

But at the end of the day, Castle (the show) can't survive on angst. At it's core it's this dramedy, heavier on the witty comedy, centered around a love story. If they carry on this noble-Beckett thing for too long people will get frustrated and tired. That's what scares me the most with what little information we have to go on, at this point. I'd feel much better knowing the end date on that angle. But at the same time, nothing TPW or AH have said in their media round have really pointed to them moving away from the core of Castle ... so I'm cautiously optimistic. (Hal was right?!) There's potential ... if they don't do it right and don't screw it up by dragging it out too long.

 

And no, I'm also not looking forward to the drama surrounding a potential season 9. That was the worst. If this is the end (and I'm not speculating on that, I just know that it will come eventually) I hope ABC and Paul Lee does everyone a favor and decides it well in advance of the finale. It's nice to give everyone some time to plan and say goodbye. (Plus, from a strictly business POV ... it's better ratings if you milk "the last season!" angle instead of just being all "oops ... we're done" after the season ends.)

 

I'm inclined to believe that they were, then they weren't, and so now they don't. ;)

 

I think that's the most obvious answer, but at the same time, based on the creepy tumblr posts she's been with Kris for a long time. Like, he was mentioned in her grandma's obituary as a SO long time. So there's gotta be more to the story and we'll likely never know. It's why I tend to fall into the excited coworkers that drifted apart when things weren't quite so fresh and new. A little less salacious, but not any less plausible.

 

And as far as why Kate makes the decision she does, maybe part of it the problem with wrapping your mind around it is that you aren't supposed to?

 

Isn't that most of Beckett's decisions? I spend a lot of time silently screaming at her for her rather stupid personal decisions.

 

I didn't think you were trying to be Debbie Downer, haha. I know you're the counterpart to my Pollyanna. I don't expect everything will be hiding in closets and sneaking around, that's purely best case scenario wishful thinking on my part. I imagine it's going to be much more messy and frustrating when it actually plays out. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't think the writers were missing a golden opportunity to make up for the missed marks from early S5.

Edited August 6, 2015 by McManda

[metaphor]

Sorry/not sorry?

 

I not trying to be reassuring or a Debbi Downer. I also think you are misunderstanding. I was merely pointing out that it's not going to be "let's pretend to be broke up and have secret sexy meetings in my office because it's safer that way". It seemed like you were going there in your spec so I said "take out some wishful thinking". Because it's heavier than that. I didn't say it would only be angst and no comedy. But to me you were getting at "hide in the closet" moments and that's not heart wrenching, it's funny. 

 

And as far as why Kate makes the decision she does, maybe part of it the problem with wrapping your mind around it is that you aren't supposed to?

Why do people assume we are supposed to agree with character's decisions? Maybe we are supposed to think she is wrong. Maybe she will realize that along the way. 

 

This is what I was saying before, though, that I feel like leaving Castle in the face of this threat would mark a regression of sorts for Kate. It seems like an S4 or end-of-S5 Beckett move and not a married-and-all-in Beckett move. Then again, maybe that's human nature, too.

 

I will say I absolutely adore well-written Caskett angst in fic, and I generally like the work of our two showrunners, so count me among the cautiously optimistic for now. 

[McManda]

Honestly, depends on the book.

 

But really I think it stems from the very real and all too frequent disappointment from television media at the expense of ratings, added to the very real possibility that showrunners won't get to tell the story they want. It's a different medium than a novel, where it's much more likely that the end makes sense. I might feel disappointed or angry or sad with a book, but at the very least it's a cohesive, preplanned story. I'm jaded to television, especially television I've invested in. I want it to be okay and I want to like it and the not knowing if I will ... that's what frustrates me the most.

 

that I feel like leaving Castle in the face of this threat would mark a regression of sorts for Kate. It seems like an S4 or end-of-S5 Beckett move and not a married-and-all-in Beckett move. Then again, maybe that's human nature, too.

 

I think this perfectly sums up why I want a timeline on the angst. I'm willing to go along for the ride ... but I also like to be able to see over the last hill, and if ratings and sweeps have taught me anything it's that sometimes (maybe more often than not) the car is apt to crash before then.

[MaryM47]

I always want to believe that things are happier on set because while bts has been speculated upon, it's still a mystery that hasn't really been solved, definitively?  And I always want to believe things can change for the better in time.  But maybe that is the real wishful thinking here.

I don't think it's wishful thinking that things can get better on set. It's a work place, shit happens. Look at how the X Files is now? ;)

 

Put me firmly in the "wanting everything on set to be rainbows and unicorns" camp. And despite the repeated reports of guest stars and set visitors that the cast and crew are nothing but delightful and kind, I'm sure that doesn't tell the whole story, whatever it may be. I realize that the true BTS story is probably not yours to tell, Hal, but as a huge fan I just want to say that 1. Liking all of the cast as much as I do, I hope that their working situation is not so unpleasant that any of them are personally unhappy, and 2. Whatever problems may or may not exist between Stana and Nathan, at least for me I don't see it onscreen. Except for some occasionally awkward kisses, and Stana carrying the burden of most of the lovey-dovey looks, one look at their darling little dance in the SNL spoof episode is proof enough for me that they can put aside whatever differences they may or may not have to portray a loving married couple. YMMV of course. 

[metaphor]

Stana and Molly were photographed filming on location today. No other spoilers except that they were both there. I'm hoping we'll still see some Beckett and Alexis development despite the Caskett split. I recall Molly commenting on a Kate&Alexis fan video at the start of S8 filming and said she wanted to see more (or something to that effect). IIRC, she added #mightbeahint to the tweet. 

 

Also, is this the first picture of we've seen with both Stana and Sunkrish (the captain and her confidant)? 

Edited August 6, 2015 by metaphor

[KaveDweller]

I think that's the most obvious answer, but at the same time, based on the creepy tumblr posts she's been with Kris for a long time. Like, he was mentioned in her grandma's obituary as a SO long time. So there's gotta be more to the story and we'll likely never know. It's why I tend to fall into the excited coworkers that drifted apart when things weren't quite so fresh and new. A little less salacious, but not any less plausible.

Creepy Tumblr posts show Stana's grandmothers's obituary? That is disturbing. But anyway maybe The long term SO was the problem? Who knows with Hollywood. I won't deny that I wish they were still close and gave cute joint interviews, but have accepted that's not the case. I do hope that they stay professional on set and aren't fighting or refusing to work together. I'd like to keep a high opinion of both actors. I'll be examining this year's blooper reel closely.

I'm assuming people won't agree with Beckett's decision, which means it will be another thing for people who hate her character to complain about. That should be fun.

[verdana]

One thing I am looking forward to is watching the smug fans who are currently admonishing anyone who dares suggest that Ausiello's blind item is Caskett looking a little less smug when the break up happens.  Is is sad that that is at the top of my list of things to look forward too come Sep 21st????  Maybe it's a little childish but after being called a conspiracy theorist for simply putting 2 and 2 together I feel entitled to a moment of childishness!

 

Oh I'm right with you there, I'm fed up to the back teeth with seeing various loud mouths and supposed know it alls on twitter and tumblr repeatedly tearing into others telling them to stop talking about it and to "cool their jets" because it's not true and no one knows what's going on only the cast and crew. I feel like saying to them sorry to break it to you but some people do find out things and it is true so would you mind dialing back that anger down a notch and stop being so smug and condescending. 

Castle is a dramedy and leans more to the comedic lighter fare than serious drama, they have the odd darker episode here and there and some serious moments sprinkled about but that's it. Stana said watching Castle was like enjoying a light after dinner dessert although its unfortunately reminded me of two day old stodgy cold rice pudding in the latter seasons. My tolerance level for angst on this show isn't great because it's been written so poorly sometimes. This idea is not so much going back to a WTWT but a WWT (when will they?) because of course they'll get back together again that's a given but if they misjudge the mood, fans will get frustrated very quickly. It would be a real punch in the gut to many if the show ends next May before getting any big pay off.

Edited August 6, 2015 by verdana

[madmaverick]

"We were on a break?" (TM Friends)

 

Workplace romances are always a risk, but sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants (TM Castle) and you'll never know if you never give it a shot.  But for most people, a failed workplace romance doesn't involve having to keep pretending to be lovers with your ex like actors may have to do.  Which can be understandably awkward, even if you're professionals.  I honestly can't imagine what that's like.

 

I'll be examining this year's blooper reel closely.

 

 

I have zero expectations for the blooper reel and haven't had any for the last few seasons.  I think the last time there was some genuinely fun interaction caught on bloopers was S3 or 4?  That time when his pants fell off and she laughed so hard that she slipped to the floor.  And there was some literal skipping hand in hand down a hall heh.  How times have changed.  Makes me sad to think of it.  Everyone else seems to speak highly of both and get along with them great.  I don't think they hate each other, but I miss the easy friendship and platonic playfulness and I think there's no going back to that unless they are like the X Files actors.

 

Sunkrish looks set to be the only actor on Castle allowed to keep his beard!  Can't say his wardrobe excites me, not that I expected it to, being in Luke's menswear department.

 

Stana and Molly on set together.  Interesting.  I really wonder how Caskett are going to explain this break up to all their family and friends.  But they never told their friends till after they'd had their wedding, so I imagine it'll be the same here, followed by a convenient "we don't want to talk about it".  Still, I hope the writers' don't ignore reaction from family and friends, because, c'mon!

 

Molly looks more mature?  Hard to tell.  But I don't think a more womanly makeover for Alexis is necessarily going to be a good thing.  I prefer a fresher, more youthful look.

 

I think Stana should tone down on the eyeliner.  She looks younger with less.  But maybe she and her makeup artist are fond of that look.

[verdana]

I'm assuming people won't agree with Beckett's decision, which means it will be another thing for people who hate her character to complain about. That should be fun.

That's a good point, it does sound as if she makes what appears to be a decision that is going to look silly to some. If Beckett suddenly leaves Castle especially given how she's been the one fighting so hard to be happy and accepting of what they have together the hate is going to start flying fast and furious and it creates such a bad atmosphere that simply adds to the misery for many. There are no winners in the blame game, may be the writers get a kick out of the fans in uproar because they think it's better for them to feel about something very strongly than apathy but I disagree. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by verdana