Rory and Logan

[Breezy]

I personally think that Logan has been unfairly judged bc he has money. I also think that considering the family he comes from, he is a very well-adjusted young adult/adult. Yeah he was doing LBD stuff, but he was still in college/fresh out of college. I think it's perfectly normal-especially considering the pressure he is under- to want to blow off some steam. I also thought he was very mature and grown up when he handled the whole leaving his father's company and making it on his own situation. Yes, going to Vegas with Finn and Colin right after his mistake and avoiding his dad's calls weren't the best, but he was freaking out. And how old was he? 23-5? How do you expect a 23-5 to react to something like that? And shortly after that, he picked himself up and left the company bc he knew that staying with the company would not be healthy for him in the long run.

[Breezy]

I also think that people forget that Logan (as well as Lorelai, Paris, and Luke but that's obvious and separate) were against Rory dropping out of Yale (the episode when LBD threw that party for her after the dropout and the Balaikas episode) but Logan was not in a position to really tell her what to do bc a) he's taken time off from school before so he would be hypocritical b) their relationship was too new for him to really criticize her c) like Lorelai, he knew that she had to figure it out herself (however, like I said, their relationship was too new for him to go to Lorelai/Paris/luke behind Rory's back or for him to take as strong of a stand that Lorelai took).

Damn, those gifs almost converted me!!!

MUST. STEP. AWAY. FROM. BUZZFEED.

What photos???

[Breezy]

And he was a jerk to Jess, but I think he was in a very uncomfortable situation: here he comes to see his gf and some guy is there who happens to be Rory's ex and not only that, Rory didn't mention right away that they dated- it's like she kept it from him (or at least that's how it appeared) and Jess kind of gives off this james dean wannabe first impression, so I think Logan was responding to that attitude that Jess was giving him (and he totally regressed to where he was back in high school with his 'I don't like anyone else' crap).

Edited March 8, 2016 by Breezy

[brightside]

I agree. I don't view the LDB stuff/the stealing of the lighter style things that different than Jess stealing baseballs, garden gnomes, and the save the bridge money. I always thought Logan and Jess were more similar than everyone else seems to. 

 

I actually loved that Logan's regression in season 7 was tied to a business failure. He was so happy and proud that he was doing well, that Rory was proud of him and that his dad had a good opinion of him--and when he saw all of that going away he slipped right back into his old habits. I thought it was a really interesting storyline that he got his act together when Rory finally yelled at him and said she just wanted him to take responsibility for his actions. Honestly, each of the Rory/Logan fights in season 7 were kinda great--I thought they were realistic conflicts that they handled maturely. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by brightside

[Breezy]

Although I can perfectly understand how Rory could have judged his immature behavior re: sleeping with the bridesmaids and using L&DB to escape from his responsibilities as reasons to refuse him, I can also see that those things could be forgiven and they could have forged a strong permanent relationship.

The actual reason she gave of wanting to live with ambiguity and the writers' insistence on yet another useless ultimatum (San Jose now or never) was weaker.

I think they made a killer couple, with fewer issues to mature through than Rory/Jess would have had.

I personally think ppl are too hard on him for the bridesmaid thing- he's never really been in a serious relationship (I think his mom was more serious abt that Fallon girl thing than he was) and he hasn't had many good role models in the relationship department (honor and josh are his only role models for relationships) so I could see how he could think that they were legitimately broken up.

Although I can perfectly understand how Rory could have judged his immature behavior re: sleeping with the bridesmaids and using L&DB to escape from his responsibilities as reasons to refuse him, I can also see that those things could be forgiven and they could have forged a strong permanent relationship.

The actual reason she gave of wanting to live with ambiguity and the writers' insistence on yet another useless ultimatum (San Jose now or never) was weaker.

I think they made a killer couple, with fewer issues to mature through than Rory/Jess would have had.

I personally think ppl are too hard on him for the bridesmaid thing- he's never really been in a serious relationship (I think his mom was more serious abt that Fallon girl thing than he was) and he hasn't had many good role models in the relationship department (honor and josh are his only role models for relationships) so I could see how he could think that they were legitimately broken up.

[Breezy]

I have a question: how the hell did Shira marry into the family that has such high expectations for anyone who marries the heir to the huntzberger fortune if she was a cocktail waitress (or something) when she met Mitchum, as Emily pointed out?

[takalotti]

Maybe a "now you have to marry me" pregnancy?

[dustylil]

how the hell did Shira marry into the family that has such high expectations for anyone who marries the heir to the huntzberger fortune if she was a cocktail waitress (or something) when she met Mitchum, as Emily pointed out

 

Well, she did qualify for membership in the DAR. And we all know how important that particular attribute is in their rarified little world.

[brightside]

Well, she did qualify for membership in the DAR. And we all know how important that particular attribute is in their rarified little world.

 

Did she? We know she attended the DAR event, but was she a member? I don't know that we ever heard of her attending a meeting/being a member? 

[Breezy]

Fff

Well, she did qualify for membership in the DAR. And we all know how important that particular attribute is in their rarified little world.

Well I think she technically could have if she had a patriot ancestor- I mean just bc she's poor doesn't mean that she's not Paul revere's great etc granddaughter. She may have also been able to get Mitchum to use his connections to get her in.

Also- all she did was show up to a charity event that anyone with the means to pay for it was invited to. Like she didn't have to be a member to attend it.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Breezy

[Melancholy]

Yes, I didn't get the impression that Shira was a member of the DAR. Although, I could be missing something. My impression was that she showed up to the WWI-esque benefit but that DAR event seemed open to the public. 

[Breezy]

Fff

Well I think she technically could have if she had a patriot ancestor- I mean just bc she's poor doesn't mean that she's not Paul revere's great etc granddaughter. She may have also been able to get Mitchum to use his connections to get her in.

Also- all she did was show up to a charity event that anyone with the means to pay for it was invited to. Like she didn't have to be a member to attend it.

But anyways- back to the question- how did she get in the huntzberger family?

[dustylil]

She may have also been able to get Mitchum to use his connections to get her in.

 

It doesn't work that way. She would have to qualify for membership on her own merits and prove an authentic connection to someone on the winning side of the American Revolution.

 

I think there was reasonable evidence to believe that Shira belonged to the DAR. She had been specifically invited to the function but had not bothered to RSVP. At no time when Rory and the others were scrambling to accommodate her and her entourage and muttering about the effrontery of Shira just turning up, did anyone comment even privately that she wasn't even a member. Even when Emily was giving her venomous little speech to Mrs. Huntzberger, there was no caustic remark about  attending DAR functions in order to mix with her betters.

But anyways- back to the question- how did she get in the huntzberger family

 

Maybe the same way the unwanted Emily gained membership to the Gilmore  clan. Her husband-to-be fell in love with her and disregarded family objections.

[Breezy]

Maybe a "now you have to marry me" pregnancy?

I thought about that, but since it's so important to have someone who's been 'born and raised to handle the duties' as the wife of the heir(a blueblood like Rory didn't even make the cut in their eyes; someone who was of Shira's social standing sans Mitchum that Emily eluded to that was confirmed by Shira's reaction) wouldn't it be easier to just put Shira and the baby up in a nice apartment/house, pay her money to support the child and herself and stay away? I mean if it's a serious as they make it out to be in that meeting of the parents scene at the huntzberger mansion, then I think Rory would be considered to be more suitable to marry in the family than Shira.

It doesn't work that way. She would have to qualify for membership on her own merits and prove an authentic connection to someone on the winning side of the American Revolution.

I think there was reasonable evidence to believe that Shira belonged to the DAR. She had been specifically invited to the function but had not bothered to RSVP. At no time when Rory and the others were scrambling to accommodate her and her entourage and muttering about the effrontery of Shira just turning up, did anyone comment even privately that she wasn't even a member. Even when Emily was giving her venomous little speech to Mrs. Huntzberger, there was no caustic remark about attending DAR functions in order to mix with her betters.

Maybe the same way the unwanted Emily gained membership to the Gilmore clan. Her husband-to-be fell in love with her and disregarded family objections.

Yes but I believe Emily was of better financial standing, or else she would not have made that gold digger comment.

I also never got the feeling that Shira and Mitchum had a happy marriage.

[Breezy]

I am so pathetically suggestible when it comes to these two! I'll find myself agreeing when people say Logan is too smarmy and that Rory was never truly relaxed and "herself" around him. And I do think their raw chemistry/passion was somewhat lacking compared to Jess/Rory which, again, is most likely attributable to MV and AB being in love in real life. (For what it's worth, I do think Rory and Logan had far more chemistry than Rory/Dean!)

And then I'll read posts like the one pawneerangers wrote and agree just as sincerely and adamantly that they're an awesome blend of complementary differences and 'truly GET each other' similarities and that he met Rory at a time when he was willing and eager to make positive changes anyway (and that she met him at a time when she was ready to 'rebel' anyway) rather than the two of them ever actually seeking to change each other. As is sadly typical of GG, they were given a few too many flaws and obstacles that made them seem a little more dysfunctional than the writers probably wanted them to. But one happy surprise of rewatching the later seasons is that they were allowed to have some happiness and stretches where they really did seem 'healthy', highly compatible and in love---arguably more of those times than any of the show's other pairings did.

Pawneerangers, as a shipper, are you disappointed that they broke up at the end? I think even many of us who are a little more iffy on Logan and/or them as a couple felt it was pretty out of character for him to be all 'commit to marrying me now or we're totally over!', especially when just a few episodes earlier in Hay Bale Maze he had been eagerly flexible, accommodating etc. And the show seemed to have somewhat outdated ideas about modern day couples marrying at very young ages anyway (Lindsay/Dean, Lane/Zack) The people I know in real life who are most demographically similar to Rory and Logan tended not to marry until their late twenties, early-to-mid thirties etc for various reasons.

I think that they wrote the proposal in bc they were caving to the 'you don't need a man' thing and wanted show Rory rejecting that and the idea of settling down, which I think is too bad bc I personally I don't think the white picket fence and a career woman are mutually exclusive. And would it be so bad if Rory choose her children and family over her career(at least for a time being) if she decided that it would make her happy? Edited March 9, 2016 by Breezy

[Breezy]

My eternal Rory/Logan question that makes a surprising bit of difference in how I feel about them at any given time (and, no, this one isn't about pilfering trinkets, swigging from flasks or sleeping with bridesmaids!): Are Logan's smiles *supposed* to be cocky, smarmy smirks or just genuine smiles? Because when I view them as the former, I find myself struggling to believe in his sincerity even when the writing would indicate that we're supposed to. I just can't quite trust him or the depth of his feelings for Rory when we see that self-impressed smirk flashing at odd moments---it feels like he's playing a game to amuse himself and that getting the heretofore 'innocent' Rory to fall for him is yet another thing that he's "won." But then when I view those aforementioned smirks as just the way the actor happens to smile, my whole view of him and of them shifts.

I've recently fallen in love with Castle, who's a fellow smirker and actually quite similar to Logan in many ways---a wealthy, witty, playful semi-reformed party boy, extroverted risk taker and ladies' man who nonetheless has a good heart underneath, etc. But somehow with Castle I see more genuine charm than smarm, more genuine boyish enthusiasm (which is ironic given that Castle is older!) than obnoxious acting out, and more sincere feeling for the serious brunette he falls for. With Logan I vacillate quite a bit and am never quite sure how I feel about him---and I have a sneaking suspicion that the writers were just as uncertain as to how to depict him :) Castle, by contrast, is pretty clearly supposed to be a genuinely good guy from the beginning and someone we want Beckett to be with---while with Rory/Logan it's sometimes hard to shake the feeling that we were supposed to want Rory to 'wake up' and be with a different type of guy.

If only they had cast a less smirk--prone actor, I have a feeling I'd have a clearer and more consistent opinion about the Rory/Logan pairing :)

Oh, and to (finally!) answer Jay's question: I find Logan proposing in public and at an extravagant event to be very in character, as was Rory's initial uncertainty and need to deliberate about it privately before making a decision. Having said that, I think him proposing just as she was graduating was pretty out of character---nearly all of the modern day Rorys and Logans I've known in real life didn't marry until their late twenties or early thirties, and Logan, who's far more comfortable with risks, uncertainty and ambiguity than most people suddenly needing Rory to either commit to marrying him at such a young age or no longer date him at all felt really off to me. It goes with the sort of erratic pacing of S7, though---Logan was a totally responsible adult determined to make it on his own and then flaked out and regressed completely by responding to adversity with booze and idiocy and spontaneous trips he can no longer afford. Rather than having them break up then, the writers hastily stuck them back in a good place for just a couple of episodes before Logan suddenly decides he needs Rory to be his spouse and then breaks up with her, thus clearing the way for Rory to end the series single like the writers probably planned all along but didn't know how to execute. (I think the Lorelai/Christopher stuff was similarly erratically paced and just weirdly inconsistent, but this isn't the thread to ramble about that!)

Sans what actually happened regarding the proposal, I could actually see Logan proposing in a couple different ways: I could see a big public proposal like the show did, but I could also see something more private but elaborate and personal (like maybe he could take her to the site of YJ,IJJ LBD event with the scaffolds or something; or maybe on a trip to Europe).

[dustylil]

Yes but I believe Emily was of better financial standing, or else she would not have made that gold digger comment

 

I would well imagine that  Emily - who had never worked outside the home -  was at the time of her marriage  likely more well-to-do than Shira. Although at the time of the series, Huntzbergers were considerably better off than the Gilmores.

 

It is also quite possible the duties and responsibilities of the Huntzberger  family had expanded mightily since the Mitchum and Shira married - say, about thirty years ago? What might be expected of Logan and his wife might be quite different from that of his parents which might in he early days been limited to business entertaining and charitable work.

I also never got the feeling that Shira and Mitchum had a happy marriage

 

At least they didn't separate for several months! But I admit some prejudice. I never thought the marriage of Richard and Emily was all that happy.

I don't think the white picket fence and a career woman are mutually exclusive. And would it be so bad if Rory choose her children and family over her career(at least for a time being) if she decided that it would make her happy

 

With all of the money both Logan and Rory would have at their disposal to deal with the mundane aspects of family living, Rory should be able to at the very least work part-time without breaking a sweat.

[Melancholy]

I think there was reasonable evidence to believe that Shira belonged to the DAR. She had been specifically invited to the function but had not bothered to RSVP. At no time when Rory and the others were scrambling to accommodate her and her entourage and muttering about the effrontery of Shira just turning up, did anyone comment even privately that she wasn't even a member. Even when Emily was giving her venomous little speech to Mrs. Huntzberger, there was no caustic remark about  attending DAR functions in order to mix with her betters.

I don't think the event's guest list was just limited to the DAR. Rory publicized the event with an online campaign. Men were in attendance. They could have been the husbands of the DAR, but it really didn't seem confined to just the Daughters of the American Revolution.

And I don't think the fact that Rory and Emily didn't mention Shira as not belonging to the DAR means that it's prove that Shira is a DAR member. They were probably focused on the better material at hand- for Rory that Shira didn't RSVP but still rudely demanded a table for Emily that Shira was a cocktail waitress who was still looking down her nose at Rory as Logan's potential wife.

[Breezy]

I would well imagine that Emily - who had never worked outside the home - was at the time of her marriage likely more well-to-do than Shira. Although at the time of the series, Huntzbergers were considerably better off than the Gilmores.

It is also quite possible the duties and responsibilities of the Huntzberger family had expanded mightily since the Mitchum and Shira married - say, about thirty years ago? What might be expected of Logan and his wife might be quite different from that of his parents which might in he early days been limited to business entertaining and charitable work.

At least they didn't separate for several months! But I admit some prejudice. I never thought the marriage of Richard and Emily was all that happy.

With all of the money both Logan and Rory would have at their disposal to deal with the mundane aspects of family living, Rory should be able to at the very least work part-time without breaking a sweat.

Ik. Like all the more reason why it wouldn't hold her back.

[dustylil]

And I don't think the fact that Rory and Emily didn't mention Shira as not belonging to the DAR means that it's prove that Shira is a DAR member

 

But as I posted earlier, it wasn't just the two of them.There were others who were assisting with/coordinating the function as well - including a recently Bolshie Paris! - who could have commented on the brazenness of her demands.

 

I guess what convinced me to think Shira must be a member (and given there was no evidence suggesting she wasn't)  was asking myself why else would she bother to attend an event of this sort? As a Huntzberger, she socialized at pretty high social levels. And while it looked like a pleasant little fund-raising party, it didn't strike me as all that original. Why on earth would she attend a local function of this sort in Hartford unless she had an actual connection to the organization.

[brightside]

I guess what convinced me to think Shira must be a member (and given there was no evidence suggesting she wasn't)  was asking myself why else would she bother to attend an event of this sort? As a Huntzberger, she socialized at pretty high social levels. And while it looked like a pleasant little fund-raising party, it didn't strike me as all that original. Why on earth would she attend a local function of this sort in Hartford unless she had an actual connection to the organization.

 

I thought it was implied (or even directly said) that this was a "must be at event", hence her appearance. 

[dustylil]

I thought it was implied (or even directly said) that this was a "must be at event", hence her appearance.

 

Probably it was a "must be" for local members. But why would it be for Shira, if she was not one? It is not as if she lives in Hartford full-time.

It's too bad we didn't see more of Shira in the sixth and seventh seasons. Did she change her mind about Logan and Rory? Or simply resign herself to a lack of control over her son's choice of marital partner? Perhaps she was planning on writing him a letter close to his wedding day expressing her concerns ;)

[brightside]

Probably it was a "must be" for local members. But why would it be for Shira, if she was not one? It is not as if she lives in Hartford full-time.

It's too bad we didn't see more of Shira in the sixth and seventh seasons. Did she change her mind about Logan and Rory? Or simply resign herself to a lack of control over her son's choice of marital partner? Perhaps she was planning on writing him a letter close to his wedding day expressing her concerns ;)

 

...do the Huntzbergers not live in Hartford? I don't think we ever learned exactly where they lived. 

 

I honestly think the Huntzberger dynamic is really interesting and the differences with the Gilmores are fascinating. It always seemed to be the Lorelai's issue with her parents was almost that they gave her too much attention, they were too interested and controlling of her life, while it seemed to me that the Hunzbergers were very hands off with Honor and Logan and didn't give them control. 

[Melancholy]

But as I posted earlier, it wasn't just the two of them.There were others who were assisting with/coordinating the function as well - including a recently Bolshie Paris! - who could have commented on the brazenness of her demands.

 

I guess what convinced me to think Shira must be a member (and given there was no evidence suggesting she wasn't)  was asking myself why else would she bother to attend an event of this sort? As a Huntzberger, she socialized at pretty high social levels. And while it looked like a pleasant little fund-raising party, it didn't strike me as all that original. Why on earth would she attend a local function of this sort in Hartford unless she had an actual connection to the organization.

Well, if the event was open to moneyed elegant people, whether they were a DAR member or not, Shira's demands wouldn't be outrageous on the basis that she wasn't part of the DAR.

As brightside said, Rory turned this into a "Must attend" event and I didn't hear anyone define the scope of the people taking interest in Rory's event to just DAR members. I actually thought this theme WAS original and it'd capture the zeitgeist in 2005 when people were really concerned with the increasing danger of Operation Iraqi Freedom but the post 9/11 rah rah patriotism levels were still high. At any rate, this DAR event seems cooler than a lot of the fundraisers featured on Real Housewives as a typical event for the rich. If it still seems lame compared to the highest profile events attended by presidents and kings and titans of industry, that could be so and why Shira didn't RSVP and just waltzed and demanded a table. The event was hip and momentarily famous in Hartford to merit the Huntzburgers showing up randomly on a night where they had no plans or fancier plans fell through- but it's wasn't important or perhaps baked into Shira's schedule as a DAR commitment of hers because she's not a member for Shira to plan on attending for more than an hour before the event.

[Breezy]

But as I posted earlier, it wasn't just the two of them.There were others who were assisting with/coordinating the function as well - including a recently Bolshie Paris! - who could have commented on the brazenness of her demands.

I guess what convinced me to think Shira must be a member (and given there was no evidence suggesting she wasn't) was asking myself why else would she bother to attend an event of this sort? As a Huntzberger, she socialized at pretty high social levels. And while it looked like a pleasant little fund-raising party, it didn't strike me as all that original. Why on earth would she attend a local function of this sort in Hartford unless she had an actual connection to the organization.

Ok my answer for why she would go is bc Rory was planning it: maybe Logan mentioned it in attempts to play her up to his mom and all that and maybe Logan thought it would help get his mom to like her so things btwn his mom and Rory would be more bearable for Rory. But I think Shira took that information and went to the event with the hope of making life hard for Rory (but Emily got ahold of Shira with her little badass speech before she could really cause that big of a problem).

[Breezy]

...do the Huntzbergers not live in Hartford? I don't think we ever learned exactly where they lived.

I honestly think the Huntzberger dynamic is really interesting and the differences with the Gilmores are fascinating. It always seemed to be the Lorelai's issue with her parents was almost that they gave her too much attention, they were too interested and controlling of her life, while it seemed to me that the Hunzbergers were very hands off with Honor and Logan and didn't give them control.

Yeah I think with Lorelai it was partly bc she was a rebellious teenager and her parents had (and have) their hearts in the right place but sometimes are too controlling and condescending (but they mean well)- but in Richard and Emily's defense, it all comes from a place of love. With the huntzbergers, they gave no parental attn or love and affection unlike the gilmores- rather they focus (at least with Logan) on him being the heir and it does not come from a place of love. It comes from a place of taking interest in ones investments- and that is all Logan is to his parents and grandfather- an investment.

[dustylil]

With the huntzbergers, they gave no parental attn or love and affection unlike the gilmores- rather they focus (at least with Logan) on him being the heir and it does not come from a place of love. It comes from a place of taking interest in ones investments- and that is all Logan is to his parents and grandfather- an investment

 

That may well be the case. However,  we saw  little of Shira and Mitchum  as a couple or as individuals and knew less of the family history. We were pretty much just given Logan's view of them and what they expected of him. But to me that would be comparable to judging Richard and Emily based only on Lorelai's comments about them  and the knowledge that she had left their home at age seventeen.  As  result, I am unable to view  them as unloving, uncaring and incapable of giving their children parental attention without further information.

We also had Emily's opinion of them as a couple, of course. But she was scarcely an objective observer if she thought her own interests or plans were threatened. She did after all describe Luke as a "hirsute lout".

[brightside]

That may well be the case. However,  we saw  little of Shira and Mitchum  as a couple or as individuals and knew less of the family history. We were pretty much just given Logan's view of them and what they expected of him. But to me that would be comparable to judging Richard and Emily based only on Lorelai's comments about them  and the knowledge that she had left their home at age seventeen.  As  result, I am unable to view  them as unloving, uncaring and incapable of giving their children parental attention without further information.

We also had Emily's opinion of them as a couple, of course. But she was scarcely an objective observer if she thought her own interests or plans were threatened. She did after all describe Luke as a "hirsute lout".

 

I mean, I just keep remembering Honor's "I'm sure Logan isn't expecting him". It's heartbreaking to me that a father wouldn't come and see his son in the hospital (until he's shamed by his son's girlfriend). While I think you're right that we don't know a lot/enough about the Huntzberger family, that alone tells me a lot.

[Melancholy]

I mean, I just keep remembering Honor's "I'm sure Logan isn't expecting him". It's heartbreaking to me that a father wouldn't come and see his son in the hospital (until he's shamed by his son's girlfriend). While I think you're right that we don't know a lot/enough about the Huntzberger family, that alone tells me a lot.

That is true. I get that we didn't see the Huntzbergers as often as the Gilmores. But I just know that if Lorelai was in critical condition in the hospital because she pulled some stupid stunt, Richard and Emily would high-tail it over full of concern and committed to throw whatever money and power to make sure she got top-shelf care. Yes, brimming with inappropriate and annoying lectures but based in love. See Emily's attitude when 16-year old Lorelai left a note and went the hospital to deliver Rory alone.

I actually did think Michum loved Logan. His choice of "Logan, you're not living up to your potential" as the standard-lecture feels like a dad-like word choice as opposed to Logan's grandfather's use of "Being in this family is serious business!" I also really take him at his word that he hired Rory as an intern because he felt badly about how Shira and the grandfather treated her- and I get the feeling that guilt was based in love for Logan more than concern from some stranger Yale-sophomore girl. However, yeah, I think I'd still feel comfortable guessing that Mitchum didn't love Logan as much as E/R loved Lorelai. It was a very conditional, distant love on Mitchum's part. E/R's *approval* was VERY conditional and that's troubling parenting, but their *love* for Lorelai and Rory was completely unconditional.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

If Logan had been injured in an incident where his own recklessness had not been a significant factor or if he been hurt delivering  emergency supplies to  some hurricane-damaged Central American community, then I too would have appalled at Mitchum's apparent coldness. But that wasn't the situation. Once again Logan - then in his early twenties - was taking time away from his studies at Yale to perform another asinine, self indulgent Life and Death Brigade stunt.

Since Mitchum  apparently couldn't cut off Logan's financial resources, perhaps he saw  the only meaningful way he had to get his son's attention and again express his anger and disapproval was to not rush to the hospital.

It is not as if Mitchum had  cut off Logan's health care coverage and he had been left to fend for himself in a local hospital. He  was airlifted back to the US, presumably courtesy of  Huntzberger funds and was being cared for in one of the NYC's finest hospitals.

And of course he soon did visit his son. Probably due in equal measure  to the shaming by the saintly Rory and his  own exasperated affection for Logan.

[brightside]

I don't know, I don't think the cause of the injury matters. If you have emergency surgery and your parents don't show up--that's cold. They could be rude and judgmental while they're there but at least they'd be there. And while yes, Logan was being reckless and he was stupid to be drunk before doing such a thing--it's not like base jumping is such a wild idea. People do it all the time. Just because you kid did a stupid thing doesn't mean to don't visit them when they were in the ICU. 

[txhorns79]

If you have emergency surgery and your parents don't show up--that's cold. They could be rude and judgmental while they're there but at least they'd be there. And while yes, Logan was being reckless and he was stupid to be drunk before doing such a thing--it's not like base jumping is such a wild idea.

 

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to meet the parents who ignore their son's serious, potentially life threatening injuries as part of some misguided strategy to teach him a lesson.  That would just be bizarre and somewhat petty behavior.  Besides, did either of them ever claim that they were purposefully ignoring Logan to teach him any kind of lesson?       

[brightside]

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to meet the parents who ignore their son's serious, potentially life threatening injuries as part of some misguided strategy to teach him a lesson.  That would just be bizarre and somewhat petty behavior.  Besides, did either of them ever claim that they were purposefully ignoring Logan to teach him any kind of lesson?       

 

Yeah, they don't really claim to be teaching a lesson. Honor says Mitchum is very against the LDB because he thinks "he knew when to grow up and Logan doesn't", but that's it.

Edited March 10, 2016 by brightside

[Melancholy]

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to meet the parents who ignore their son's serious, potentially life threatening injuries as part of some misguided strategy to teach him a lesson.  That would just be bizarre and somewhat petty behavior.  Besides, did either of them ever claim that they were purposefully ignoring Logan to teach him any kind of lesson?       

 

Yup. Moreover, Honor's unsurprised "Logan knows to not expect Mitchum" line just screams that Mitchum WASN'T boycotting Logan in some extreme last ditch tough love move to teach Logan a badly needed lesson. It was just typical of how Mitchum raised Logan- to generally withhold attention and love, especially when Mitchum felt Logan wasn't measuring up. 

 

By the way, it seems like Shira just couldn't be bothered to participate at all in Logan's recovery. What was she doing? Wasn't there some line that she was at a spa? 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

Yes, she seemingly was at a spa. Or perhaps drying out.

Frankly, I was kind of surprised at all the criticism of Mitchum - who had a business empire to run but presumably could readily keep in touch with the hospital concerning Logan - in the last several posts - but little of Shira.

In this situation she was kind of reminding me of Liz Danes just after Jess moved to Stars Hollow.

Edited March 10, 2016 by dustylil

[brightside]

Yes, she seemingly was at a spa. Or perhaps drying out.

Frankly, I was kind of surprised at all the criticism of Mitchum - who had a business empire to run but presumably could readily keep in touch with the hospital concerning Logan - in the last several posts - but none of Shira.

 

I mean, I think Shira totally deserves the same criticism, but I'm pretty sure this sparked from my reaction to the "I'm sure Logan isn't expecting him" line, and that line just happens to be all about Mitchum. Shira ran off to a spa in Arizona ("When the going gets though the though get hot rock massages" hee) because she was apparently upset? In denial? Beside herself? Who knows. She should have come to the hospital. Logan's parents suck. 

 

And I don't really think running his empire has anything to do with it--or he would have claimed as such. And even if he did all that means is his job is more important to him than his son. Being in the ICU (particularly after an accident) is very serious business and both of Logan's parents should have been there. 

[Melancholy]

Yes, Shira sucks too. But I think the ep focused on Mitchum because primarily, Rory thought she could reach Mitchum since he was firmly on the grid what with his conversation with Honor while Shira was more AWOL. And frankly secondarily, I think Rory got a kick out of turning the tables on Mitchum and getting on her high horse to lecture him. That line about the sycophants surrounding Mitchum to praise him and never point out of his faults just screamed about Rory's sour grapes on her failed internship and it was a bit of a deviation from Logan's issues. I think Rory was mainly trying to get Mitchum there to give Logan his family when he was recovering, but another definite motive is that Rory really liked having the moral superiority/excuse to yell at Mitchum here. 

[Breezy]

Yes, Shira sucks too. But I think the ep focused on Mitchum because primarily, Rory thought she could reach Mitchum since he was firmly on the grid what with his conversation with Honor while Shira was more AWOL. And frankly secondarily, I think Rory got a kick out of turning the tables on Mitchum and getting on her high horse to lecture him. That line about the sycophants surrounding Mitchum to praise him and never point out of his faults just screamed about Rory's sour grapes on her failed internship and it was a bit of a deviation from Logan's issues. I think Rory was mainly trying to get Mitchum there to give Logan his family when he was recovering, but another definite motive is that Rory really liked having the moral superiority/excuse to yell at Mitchum here.

And although he grows up tremendously to the point where he is capable of standing up to Mitchum, I think that Rory feels that it's her job to chew Mitchum out to defend/stick up for Logan bc she can do so without repercussions.

If Logan had been injured in an incident where his own recklessness had not been a significant factor or if he been hurt delivering emergency supplies to some hurricane-damaged Central American community, then I too would have appalled at Mitchum's apparent coldness. But that wasn't the situation. Once again Logan - then in his early twenties - was taking time away from his studies at Yale to perform another asinine, self indulgent Life and Death Brigade stunt.

Since Mitchum apparently couldn't cut off Logan's financial resources, perhaps he saw the only meaningful way he had to get his son's attention and again express his anger and disapproval was to not rush to the hospital.

It is not as if Mitchum had cut off Logan's health care coverage and he had been left to fend for himself in a local hospital. He was airlifted back to the US, presumably courtesy of Huntzberger funds and was being cared for in one of the NYC's finest hospitals.

And of course he soon did visit his son. Probably due in equal measure to the shaming by the saintly Rory and his own exasperated affection for Logan.

Yes but how can a parent not care if their kid is in the hospital? My parents would come and say vigil by my bedside and than kicked my ass once I had healed.

But as far as the stunts go, he's young. Also I think that a lot of that is a retaliation against his parents and grandfather- esp his grandfather and dad.

If Logan had been injured in an incident where his own recklessness had not been a significant factor or if he been hurt delivering emergency supplies to some hurricane-damaged Central American community, then I too would have appalled at Mitchum's apparent coldness. But that wasn't the situation. Once again Logan - then in his early twenties - was taking time away from his studies at Yale to perform another asinine, self indulgent Life and Death Brigade stunt.

Since Mitchum apparently couldn't cut off Logan's financial resources, perhaps he saw the only meaningful way he had to get his son's attention and again express his anger and disapproval was to not rush to the hospital.

It is not as if Mitchum had cut off Logan's health care coverage and he had been left to fend for himself in a local hospital. He was airlifted back to the US, presumably courtesy of Huntzberger funds and was being cared for in one of the NYC's finest hospitals.

And of course he soon did visit his son. Probably due in equal measure to the shaming by the saintly Rory and his own exasperated affection for Logan.

Yes but how can a parent not care if their kid is in the hospital? My parents would come and say vigil by my bedside and than kicked my ass once I had healed.

But as far as the stunts go, he's young. Also I think that a lot of that is a retaliation against his parents and grandfather- esp his grandfather and dad.

If Mitchum was so against LBD than why didn't he cut Logan off financially until he quit? Or at least refuse to allow Logan to pay dues or something?

[dustylil]

That line about the sycophants surrounding Mitchum to praise him and never point out of his faults just screamed about Rory's sour grapes on her failed internship

 

And spoke to much of what she and Mitchum had in common :)

[brightside]

And spoke to much of what she and Mitchum had in common :)

 

Definitely it is an issue for Rory. The most I ever liked Dean was "Well too bad Rory, someone doesn't like you for once." I wish learning to deal with criticism/negative reactions from people had been a bigger part of Rory's arc. I think it happened a little in the Yale years but it wasn't developed properly. Could've been great for her and the show. 

 

I do think that regardless of what you think of Logan and his actions, parents not coming to visit their kid when he has life-threatening injuries and emergency surgery is just shitty. And I think it speaks to the fact that Logan had a crappy family life.

[photo fox]

Logan had "six broken ribs, a collapsed lung, a broken ankle, contusions over 1/3 of his body, and a concussion." I'm trying to imagine a circumstance where I would leave my 20-something-year-old nieces to to face injuries like that alone, and I can't. There's nothing they could do that would make me abandon them that way. Yell at them later, sure. Cut them off later, maybe. But at that moment, it takes a special kind of asshole to not show up for their kid.

And that goes for both his parents.

[dustylil]

The most I ever liked Dean was "Well too bad Rory, someone doesn't like you for once." I wish learning to deal with criticism/negative reactions from people had been a bigger part of Rory's arc. I think it happened a little in the Yale years but it wasn't developed properly.

 

Logan - to his credit - also rebuked  Rory for her mocking comments on the gilded lives of trust fund kids, while not recognizing the similar and considerable privileges she herself was enjoying. But it is quite true, criticism of and negative reactions towards her were not much of a part of Rory's life experience. Well, there was Lindsay's mother. And that Judge....

[brightside]

Logan - to his credit - also rebuked  Rory for her mocking comments on the gilded lives of trust fund kids, while not recognizing the similar and considerable privileges she herself was enjoying. But it is quite true, criticism of and negative reactions towards her were not much of a part of Rory's life experience. Well, there was Lindsay's mother. And that Judge....

 

Honestly I love that fight in 7.08. I love it. It might be weird for a shipper to love a fight between the couple but whatever, I think it's great. I like that someone finally calls out Rory for the kind of annoying snobbery she and Lorelai have--while some of it is based on their experiences with rich people, for the most part they just see themselves as "above" that "type" of person while benefiting from considerable privilege. And I also like that when Rory tries to tell Logan he's different from those people he straight up says "No I'm not".

 

And it all ends with a conversation and apology! Not a frequent occurance for this show. 

[Llywela]

That line about the sycophants surrounding Mitchum to praise him and never point out of his faults just screamed about Rory's sour grapes on her failed internship and it was a bit of a deviation from Logan's issues. I think Rory was mainly trying to get Mitchum there to give Logan his family when he was recovering, but another definite motive is that Rory really liked having the moral superiority/excuse to yell at Mitchum here. 

Can I just observe that Logan's accident and hospitalisation happen before Rory's failed internship - I'm re-watching season 5 currently, so it's fresh in my memory. Sour grapes over the internship have nothing to do with Rory's rant at Mitchum because it hasn't happened yet. That rant is 100% about Logan and his injuries.

[brightside]

Can I just observe that Logan's accident and hospitalisation happen before Rory's failed internship - I'm re-watching season 5 currently, so it's fresh in my memory. Sour grapes over the internship have nothing to do with Rory's rant at Mitchum because it hasn't happened yet. That rant is 100% about Logan and his injuries.

 

...that's not true. The internship is in season 5, Logan is injured in season 6 (episode 20).

[Llywela]

Is Logan injured twice, then...? 'Cause I remember seeing it...

 

Oooh, I know why I've got confused. I'm rewatching season five, but my sister is on season six and I've caught a few episodes at her house - one of them must have been Logan's accident, and it's got all conflated with my own rewatch in my head! Confusing!

[junienmomo]

Was watching WITS this morning, because, well, I gotta watch WITS once in a while or the healthy level of GG in my bloodstream gets too low, and I must say how much I LOVED Rory's and Logan's 'cute (second) meet.'

This was the one where she is putting up Paris's posters for Asher's wake and Logan and Finn come by looking for Finn's eternal soulmate. 

The dialog between Rory and Logan is hilarious, tightly delivered and some of Alexis' best acting of the series. Czuchry, a more able actor, was the perfect foil to her irritation. That was a real 30's screwball comedy moment for me, and excellently played by both.

[GreenScreenFX]

What is WITS... I haven't watched enough to get anagrams.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GreenScreenFX

[GreenScreenFX]

I am a Gilmore fan, and I know what happened in what season, but I am pretty clueless when people start abbreviating episode titles. I need to do some homework.

[GreenScreenFX]

I tend to rename episodes in my head ala "friends" episodes..". the One when Asford dies.... " The one when Luke gets a daughter.".The one where Jess gets a back door" etc

Edited April 13, 2016 by GreenScreenFX