Jennifer Jareau: Pennsylvania Petite

[feverfew]

Sounds like they're trying to convince us why we should all like her?  Probably because there's so much hate out there for JJ right now.  JJ is actually driving fans away from the show because of how she's in every scene, doing everyone's job, and acting like she runs the team.  

 

I agree -- it sounds like it was written by Erica Messer herself, and considering it is posted on an official site, I wouldn't be at all surprised. 

While it's true that Criminal Minds are losing viewers, I would be careful with placing the blame squarely on JJ's shoulders. As a fan who does not think of herself as a teen bopper (? What was that derogatory expression someone used on this thread to describe JJ/AJ's fans?) I know that she has her detractors, but lumping us all together and claiming she is single-handledly destroying the show for everybody...well, it's not true. I still like her. Does her characterization sometimes defy sense? Yes, but so does the rest of the team's. I don't look to Criminal Minds for its in-depth skewering of the human mind.

[Old Dog]

 I don't look to Criminal Minds for its in-depth skewering of the human mind.

 

And therein lies part of the problem. Criminal Minds' USP originally was precisely that - a perspective through profiling into the motivations of the criminal mind and its effect on victims. The show is gradually dumbing down into a kind of action/drama/romcom mix aimed primarily at a younger audience  and its essence has become diluted. I still watch for favourite characters and because sometimes, very occasionally,  there are moments of the intelligent show it should be. I don't lay all the blame on JJ but on the writers and showrunner who seem hell bent on turning the show into a half baked cross between some teen drama and an Avengers style movie and JJ is always at the forefront of all this. .

 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Old Dog

[Cobalt Stargazer]

While it's true that Criminal Minds are losing viewers, I would be careful with placing the blame squarely on JJ's shoulders.

 

I think perhaps much of the blame settling on JJ is because she seems to be the only one benefiting from the radical change in the show's tone. Sure, Morgan and Garcia are getting complained about as well, but Derek and Penelope aren't the ones getting these gushing, overweening "Why She's Awesomer Than Awesome" lists on the official website. It's like they're trying to sell viewers (and when I say viewers, I mean me) on her, and I can't think of a single time in all of my years of watching television that that's worked.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[normasm]

feverfew, while the writers and show runner have ruined the JJ character, upset the balance of the ensemble cast, screwed with canon to the extent that there almost is none, and made CM into a different show, no, they have not driven me off. As long as Matthew is there, I'll try to watch. So, no, JJ and all the other unpleasant (for me and others) factors have not driven me away. But I am on pins and needles (relatively speaking, this is just a TV show) about MGG's status, and when he's gone, so am i. 

 

I don't blame AJC for trying to take advantage of whatever she can while it lasts, and I certainly won't blame JJ or Kate or any other character I dislike for ruining the show. i will, however, hold Erica Messer responsible for ruining the show if things continue in the direction they are going, and for myriad reasons stated above.

[feverfew]

And therein lies part of the problem. Criminal Minds' USP originally was precisely that - a perspective through profiling into the motivations of the criminal mind and its effect on victims. The show is gradually dumbing down into a kind of action/drama/romcom mix aimed primarily at a younger audience  and its essence has become diluted. I still watch for favourite characters and because sometimes, very occasionally,  there are moments of the intelligent show it should be. I don't lay all the blame on JJ but on the writers and showrunner who seem hell bent on turning the show into a half baked cross between some teen drama and an Avengers style movie and JJ is always at the forefront of all this. .

True; I loved the first two seasons of the show for its clever writing and its clever characters. It lost a lot for me with the exit of Gideon and the forefronting of Hotch, who I find one-note (and the actor gives me the heebie-jeebies after the catfish scandal) - so I completely understand if someone has issues with a specific character/actor. I realise we can't all like they same characters, but I just wanted to point out that there are fans of JJ out there who's not in the teen demographic. 

 

Do I agree with everything they've tried to do with the character? No, I don't think superwoman worked, and I much prefered the earlier JJ, but I think they've toned that part down enough this season. For some viewers it's too little too late, which is perfectly alright. I too have characters that's too damaged in my view to ever liking them again. But it seems to me that most Criminal Minds-threads gets bogged down in vitriol against one specific character, which makes conversation very difficult for those of us who don't feel as strongly. And I'm sorry for that, for I used to love lurking on this board, because you all have some very clever and funny insights.

 

I think perhaps much of the blame settling on JJ is because she seems to be the only one benefiting from the radical change in the show's tone. Sure, Morgan and Garcia are getting complained about as well, but Derek and Penelope aren't the ones getting these gushing, overweening "Why She's Awesomer Than Awesome" lists on the official website. It's like they're trying to sell viewers (and when I say viewers, I mean me) on her, and I can't think of a single time in all of my years of watching television that that's worked.

That was a definite misfire. In general, I think showrunners/producers should stay away from such subjctive issues, but it's been going on for a while: ship-baiting, fan-baiting etc. It didn't work as intended for us, but I think it's just another form of marketing, and I can't really blame the actress/character for that. 

 

I miss a more balanced focus on the characters as well. And more cleverness both in storytelling and characterization. I just don't hate the character of JJ.

[AuntieL]

You're not alone, feverfew .I like JJ and I haven't been a "teen" anything in close to 40 years. And I'm pretty sure I've never "bopped". Different strokes and all that.  I do wish they had brought her back as media liaison because they realized how important that job was but I could see why the character would change her mind and go for profiling. The characterization for all of them has been wonky but I still enjoy all of the characters.

[Old Dog]

It's a tricky thing all this discussion about JJ. I can see how those who still like her character get fed up with the constant JJ bashing here and on other forums. For me, every week she seems to dominate the screentime, and every week it riles me enough to make me want to comment yet again in hopes that TPTB see my view. And yet paradoxically I am almost annoyed at this volte face they are trying in softening her character this season. After being told by AJC very firmly that fans like me don't like new JJ because we cannot accept any change, I actually get irritated that they don't have the courage of their convictions!! And that makes no sense whatsoever.

For me, the damage has been done and I simply cannot stand the character however much they try to pull back from the SuperBarbie persona they have given her. I loved her as media liaison and although it went against what she had said in canon of course I would have accepted her move to profiler had it been done believably. I don't rate AJ as an actress and JJ was always meant to be a supporting role which she did well. I personally think she does not carry the bigger tougher role at all credibly.  And add up her new overnight super agent status, her over exposure on screen and the complete nonsense of the 200 debacle and there is no chance of recovery for me. Sadly I am one of the many who FF her scenes and am hanging in by my fingertips to see Reid and Hotch on the few occasions they are allowed to appear. It saddens me and I will continue to put this point across if only to counterbalance the JJ crazies, And apologies to AuntiL and feverfew but JJ does have a big gang of teen fans who respond really viciously to any criticism. They of course are entitled to their views although a little respect to others would go a long way and I am entitled to mine. .

Edited November 16, 2014 by Old Dog

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Do I agree with everything they've tried to do with the character? No, I don't think superwoman worked, and I much prefered the earlier JJ, but I think they've toned that part down enough this season. For some viewers it's too little too late, which is perfectly alright. I too have characters that's too damaged in my view to ever liking them again. But it seems to me that most Criminal Minds-threads gets bogged down in vitriol against one specific character, which makes conversation very difficult for those of us who don't feel as strongly. And I'm sorry for that, for I used to love lurking on this board, because you all have some very clever and funny insights.

 

I'm usually the first one to be fair, or at least try to be. And as a long-time fan of Xander Harris I can sympathize with the feeling that what some people (meant generally, not specifically) want is to take unlimited shots at a character without anyone gainsaying them or taking an opposing viewpoint. But to me, whatever character is being talked about, it isn't really a discussion without someone saying "I don't agree, and here's why" or even "To be fair."

 

As for JJ, it isn't that I hate her, If it wasn't for her being ever-present, I wouldn't even resent her. I'm easy to please, and as others have said I'm hanging on for the occasional glimpses of Reid I get. If MGG leaves, so will I.

[alexvillage]

JJ is, currently, omnipresent and omniscient.

Wait, isn't this a GOD thing? 

OMG! JJ is GOD!

Or maybe I should say OMJJ!

[JMO]

 

But it seems to me that most Criminal Minds-threads gets bogged down in vitriol against one specific character, which makes conversation very difficult for those of us who don't feel as strongly. And I'm sorry for that, for I used to love lurking on this board, because you all have some very clever and funny insights.

 

I'm with you on this, feverfew.  Although we do manage to have good conversations most of the time, every so often this board reminds me of why I stopped eating lunch in the lunchroom.  I still like my coworkers, but the concentrated negativity gave me indigestion.

[missmycat]

 

I think perhaps much of the blame settling on JJ is because she seems to be the only one benefiting from the radical change in the show's tone. Sure, Morgan and Garcia are getting complained about as well, but Derek and Penelope aren't the ones getting these gushing, overweening "Why She's Awesomer Than Awesome" lists on the official website. It's like they're trying to sell viewers (and when I say viewers, I mean me) on her, and I can't think of a single time in all of my years of watching television that that's worked.

CoStar I agree with this for the most part. However, I will say that CM's official social media does seem to do a lot of gushing over Garcia and Morgan. With Morgan it's usually more superfluous having to do with his looks: I guess I can kind of understand this though. sarcasm on Because after all, as far as the men on that show, he is really the only eye candy CM has. sarcasm off 

 

And then there is Garcia. She is the one who is more or less promoted as the show's genius not Reid.Ever time she opens her stupid mouth and brags that she too is a genius the CM people feel compelled to highlight it on their social media pages. They currently have this one post about how the things Garcia says are just so gosh darn awesome they need to be written down. *feeling the need to hurl*

 

Meanwhile, For Reid we get stuff about his hair. But I honestly don't remember the last time his genius was promoted by CM's social media. And I don't ever remember them mentioning his other amazing abilities like his eidetic memory or his ability to read 20,000 words per minute. 

Edited November 16, 2014 by missmycat

[ForeverAlone]

Reid did get a nice post about why he was the man of your dreams. Though I seriously disagree with #7, as I personally consider that a serious detractor. :) :) :) 

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/criminal_minds/insider_blog/1003338/

 

But yeah, since last season, as a viewer, I've personally been very sensitive to so much JJ, since she is everywhere on the screen. So while her characterization has swung back to something more balanced, at this point it's just the fact that she seems to be all over the place in the episodes, at the expense of other characters. 

[Droogie]

True; I loved the first two seasons of the show for its clever writing and its clever characters. It lost a lot for me with the exit of Gideon and the forefronting of Hotch, who I find one-note (and the actor gives me the heebie-jeebies after the catfish scandal) - so I completely understand if someone has issues with a specific character/actor. I realise we can't all like they same characters, but I just wanted to point out that there are fans of JJ out there who's not in the teen demographic. 

 

Do I agree with everything they've tried to do with the character? No, I don't think superwoman worked, and I much prefered the earlier JJ, but I think they've toned that part down enough this season. For some viewers it's too little too late, which is perfectly alright. I too have characters that's too damaged in my view to ever liking them again. But it seems to me that most Criminal Minds-threads gets bogged down in vitriol against one specific character, which makes conversation very difficult for those of us who don't feel as strongly. And I'm sorry for that, for I used to love lurking on this board, because you all have some very clever and funny insights.

 

I miss a more balanced focus on the characters as well. And more cleverness both in storytelling and characterization. I just don't hate the character of JJ.

I hope you continue posting. I am pretty new myself and so am hardly the welcome wagon, but there is room for allllll opinions here, I think. Myself, I get annoyed at JJ because her characterization seems to have been at the expense of my personal favorite character, which is Spencer Reid. But I can certainly appreciate and tolerate that others may not feel the same.

[feverfew]

I'm usually the first one to be fair, or at least try to be. And as a long-time fan of Xander Harris I can sympathize with the feeling that what some people (meant generally, not specifically) want is to take unlimited shots at a character without anyone gainsaying them or taking an opposing viewpoint. But to me, whatever character is being talked about, it isn't really a discussion without someone saying "I don't agree, and here's why" or even "To be fair."

 

As for JJ, it isn't that I hate her, If it wasn't for her being ever-present, I wouldn't even resent her. I'm easy to please, and as others have said I'm hanging on for the occasional glimpses of Reid I get. If MGG leaves, so will I.

Of course; This is not a fanboard, and nobody is required to like the same characters as me. And I like a good, constructive discussion as much as the next person. But as JustMyOpinion said, sometimes the negativity seems a little over the top. Last episode, for instance, didn't feel very JJ-centric to me, but the conversation made it sound that way. And made it into a point of too much JJ ruining the show. I rewatched the episode with that in mind, and I don't think she had more lines or reaction shots than Reid, Garcia, Rossi or Kate. (It was a Morgan-centric episode, so obviously he had the most screen time). One could make a case for Hotch being in some way absent, but that's the way it works. Sometime the focus shifts slightly from character to character. The problem is of course if any JJ-scenes makes you (general you) want to stab your eyes out ;)

 

 

Reid did get a nice post about why he was the man of your dreams. Though I seriously disagree with #7, as I personally consider that a serious detractor. :) :) :) 

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/criminal_minds/insider_blog/1003338/

 

But yeah, since last season, as a viewer, I've personally been very sensitive to so much JJ, since she is everywhere on the screen. So while her characterization has swung back to something more balanced, at this point it's just the fact that she seems to be all over the place in the episodes, at the expense of other characters. 

 

I don't really follow the marketing of Criminal Minds, so I had no idea that the whole "n-reasons you should like x-character" was a normal strategy for CBS. As far as I can tell, nobody here felt that they were trying to forcefully make us believe that Reid is "the man of our dreams" (which he obviously is), or thought that CBS was trying to force-feed us a particular mindset. Of course I'm being a little facetious here, but I really think it will be difficult to satisfy some people, unless JJ goes away completely. But I remain ever hopeful that they will fix everything and the show will be what it once was. #eternaloptimistme.Not.

 

(I also just wanted to say thank you for the civility on this board. I love the fact that we can discuss this without it turning into a battlefield).

 

Edited to say: Thank you for the welcome, Droogie. Reid's my favourite too. And I guess now is the wrong time to say that I'm a tiny bit of a Reid/JJ-shipper? *grins* (Tinytinytiny, mind. Or: I didn't hate the thought of them in the earlier seasons.)

Edited November 17, 2014 by feverfew

[Droogie]

Of course; This is not a fanboard, and nobody is required to like the same characters as me. And I like a good, constructive discussion as much as the next person. But as JustMyOpinion said, sometimes the negativity seems a little over the top. Last episode, for instance, didn't feel very JJ-centric to me, but the conversation made it sound that way. And made it into a point of too much JJ ruining the show. I rewatched the episode with that in mind, and I don't think she had more lines or reaction shots than Reid, Garcia, Rossi or Kate. (It was a Morgan-centric episode, so obviously he had the most screen time). One could make a case for Hotch being in some way absent, but that's the way it works. Sometime the focus shifts slightly from character to character. The problem is of course if any JJ-scenes makes you (general you) want to stab your eyes out ;)

 

Edited to say: Thank you for the welcome, Droogie. Reid's my favourite too. And I guess now is the wrong time to say that I'm a tiny bit of a Reid/JJ-shipper? *grins* (Tinytinytiny, mind. Or: I didn't hate the thought of them in the earlier seasons.)

Would this be an ok time to say that maybe they could kill Will off Wednesday and that by the end of the season, JJ realizes she's in love with Reid? 'Cause I'd be fine with that.

[feverfew]

Would this be an ok time to say that maybe they could kill Will off Wednesday and that by the end of the season, JJ realizes she's in love with Reid? 'Cause I'd be fine with that.

Fine with me! And then JJ could spend the next season worshipping at the feet of Dr Reid and his magnificent wizard hair...

[ForeverAlone]

I can definitely say with certainty that if the show did anything to deliberately feed the JJ/Reid ship, I would stop watching the show permanently. Though thankfully that will never happen. I can't imagine the show breaking up Super Ninja JJ's marriage, plus the show has never written JJ as displaying the slightest bit of interest in Reid or even viewing him as a man or a sexual person (Penelope either for that matter as she was deliberately pointed out to him "Hit"). Hell, JJ seemed shocked that Reid was able to find a girlfriend. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I really think it will be difficult to satisfy some people, unless JJ goes away completely. But I remain ever hopeful that they will fix everything and the show will be what it once was. #eternaloptimistme.Not.

 

IMO, I don't think any show can make all viewers happy. I'm torn as to whether or not they should try, since all that usually leads to is the writers pussy-footing around trying to make everyone happy, which makes no one happy. The worst thing a showrunner can do is string along all of the fanbases because you don't want any of them to stop watching out of pique. Joss Whedon did that for the entire final season of BTVS, and I still haven't forgiven it after over ten years.

 

As for JJ, I don't necessarily want her to leave. I would like for Erica Messer to get a grip on what I see as either infatuation or over-identification with her. Or both. If I'm right about her having written that press release thing, then perhaps EM sees JJ as a self-insert, which is more than a little obnoxious to me.

 

Re: Her and Reid - in the past, before Will, before Henry, it might have worked. OTOH, she seemed to have pretty firmly told him that she wasn't interested and wasn't going to be interested. She told him she wasn't ever going to go to ComicCon with him, despite the fact that he never mentioned such a thing, and although they did go to that football game when Gideon gave Reid tickets to the Redskins, we never heard what happened there. Reid told Morgan that it was "classified information" or something, and nothing came of it after that. Which is fair. I don't know if a re-visit is a desirable option at this point.

[Droogie]

Oh, I agree -- I think what I would love is just for *someone* to acknowledge Reid as desirable. Because he is. And I'm so tired of him being dismissed.

[normasm]

I love this conversation, guys! I love that many of us disagree, but we're not screaming at each other!!!! Feverfew, I agree with droogie that I think we all welcome the different takes on the show and the characters. While I love it when people agree with me, I really like it when someone can explain their disagreement without bashing anybody.

[missmycat]

Okay this is a bit off the topic, But, Feverfew I have been meaning to mention to you that I think your avatar is freaking adorable.

Edited November 17, 2014 by missmycat

[JMO]

 

they did go to that football game when Gideon gave Reid tickets to the Redskins, we never heard what happened there. Reid told Morgan that it was "classified information" or something,

 

This is what happened:  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9730611/4/Prelude 

But don't tell anyone.  It's classified.

 

[zannej]

I think its possible for them to redeem JJ if they don't insist on injecting her into almost every scene with different team members and have her always being right. My beef with her now is that they seem to be giving her lines that sound like they were written for other characters and I truly think that the writers are being forced/compelled to use her more- to the detriment of other characters.

 

I don't want any one single character to take over the show. That said, thus far this season it hasn't been quite as bad. The sister's suicide drama thing turned out to not be what I expected and actually made sense to me. It showed JJ actually being human and not knowing how to react rationally and actually having to take guidance from Reid.

 

I admit that my irritation with her from last season left me a bit resentful of the character. When this season started, every time I saw her on the screen, I was irritated. That has died down a bit at least. 

 

I really wish we could see what her character would be like now if CBS hadn't axed her in the first place.

[Droogie]

I think its possible for them to redeem JJ if they don't insist on injecting her into almost every scene with different team members and have her always being right. My beef with her now is that they seem to be giving her lines that sound like they were written for other characters and I truly think that the writers are being forced/compelled to use her more- to the detriment of other characters.

I don't want any one single character to take over the show. That said, thus far this season it hasn't been quite as bad. The sister's suicide drama thing turned out to not be what I expected and actually made sense to me. It showed JJ actually being human and not knowing how to react rationally and actually having to take guidance from Reid.

I admit that my irritation with her from last season left me a bit resentful of the character. When this season started, every time I saw her on the screen, I was irritated. That has died down a bit at least.

I really wish we could see what her character would be like now if CBS hadn't axed her in the first place.

I agree with all of this. I definitely don't hate JJ. I just wish it wasn't the "JJ show with some other people." I don't think it should've been JJ understanding that the UnSub had a Cinderella thing, and I don't think it should've been JJ in "Hashtag" discerning clues on the (later proven innocent) suspect's wall. That would've been something Reid did. Edited November 18, 2014 by Droogie

[feverfew]

I think when it comes to shipping on this show, I prefer it to stay in fandom, actually. Otherwise it can turn real ugly real soon. I love a good relationship as much as the next person, but on a show that's nominally about a group of people, a ship can easily take over the whole show. But I like those small beats, like last episode, where JJ and Reid spoke at the same time and then smiled to each other - I can run wild with it in fandom if I chose, while people who don't ship them can ignore it. Also I don't want to lose ForeverAlone :)

 

IMO, I don't think any show can make all viewers happy. I'm torn as to whether or not they should try, since all that usually leads to is the writers pussy-footing around trying to make everyone happy, which makes no one happy. The worst thing a showrunner can do is string along all of the fanbases because you don't want any of them to stop watching out of pique. Joss Whedon did that for the entire final season of BTVS, and I still haven't forgiven it after over ten years.

 

That's the scary thing about fandom. In a sense the we do hold a lot of power - if the showrunners give it to us. And I agree; it almost never, ever makes for a good show if the show panders to the fans. Pretty Little Liars, which started out as an interesting take on a teenage whodunnit, has completely gone down in the drain in the showrunners attempt to appease its shipper-base. Ick. On the other hand, course-correction has made for a better show sometimes.

 

I think its possible for them to redeem JJ if they don't insist on injecting her into almost every scene with different team members and have her always being right. My beef with her now is that they seem to be giving her lines that sound like they were written for other characters and I truly think that the writers are being forced/compelled to use her more- to the detriment of other characters.

 

I don't want any one single character to take over the show. That said, thus far this season it hasn't been quite as bad. The sister's suicide drama thing turned out to not be what I expected and actually made sense to me. It showed JJ actually being human and not knowing how to react rationally and actually having to take guidance from Reid.

 

I admit that my irritation with her from last season left me a bit resentful of the character. When this season started, every time I saw her on the screen, I was irritated. That has died down a bit at least. 

 

I really wish we could see what her character would be like now if CBS hadn't axed her in the first place.

 

This. I think maybe this season is a bit of the course-correction thingy? The JJ of last two seasons didn't really work for people, me included, so they are trying something new. As I said earlier in this thread, it might be too late for some viewers, but I'm happy it's working just a little bit. Criminal Minds is a show about a bunch of profilers, and therefore it should be about these people equally. It's funny; we actually had a bit of the same conversation over on The Walking Dead thread, where the showrunners, in an attempt to service all of their many characters, had three bottle episodes in a row. I loved it, but if you dislike a specific set of characters, those sort of episodes becomes your worst nightmare. I think it's a balancing act, and sometimes the showrunners hit the ball out of the park, and sometimes...not so much.

 

missmycat, I'm guessing you're a fellow feline lover? :)

[zannej]

feverfew, I know I'm not missmycat, but high five to the cat lovers! I had 7 of my cats on my bed last night and probably had about 10 or 11 of them in my room.

 

Apparently Paget and Joe are cat people. Thomas and Matthew like dogs.

 

Now to make this back on topic, I wonder if JJ ever had pets growing up and whether or not she likes animals. I don't think she's ever mentioned pets and hasn't ever shown interest in dogs or cats (although I don't think she's ever been near them). 

[Droogie]

Maybe this should be in the bullpen thread but I think it's applicable here. It's why I think EM is a hypocrite, saying if everyone can't have a personal story, then no one can. Show me where that's been the case the past few seasons. And I don't want a soap opera -- but they gave us these characters 10 years ago, and we grew to love them. Explore them, for Pete's sake. It's the writers' fault that we want more.

It's the source of my JJ irritation, and I don't want to be irritated with her. I used to love her. I'm liking her more this season, though.

http://tinyurl.com/mchczy8

[Droogie]

I think perhaps much of the blame settling on JJ is because she seems to be the only one benefiting from the radical change in the show's tone. Sure, Morgan and Garcia are getting complained about as well, but Derek and Penelope aren't the ones getting these gushing, overweening "Why She's Awesomer Than Awesome" lists on the official website. It's like they're trying to sell viewers (and when I say viewers, I mean me) on her, and I can't think of a single time in all of my years of watching television that that's worked.

To be fair, which is hard for me because I am soooo biased about it, there was a similar article about Dr. Reid a few weeks prior on the same site.

[missmycat]

missmycat, I'm guessing you're a fellow feline lover? :)

Indeed I am.

Although I currently don't have any pets since losing my beautiful little girl tabby in 2011.

It was shortly after that when I joined my first CM forum, hence my username.

[amensisterfriend]

I have a question for those of us who dislike JJ: Do you find that your current opinion of her decreases the degree to which you like (or not dislike) her even in early seasons, or does the current incarnation of JJ make you appreciate JJ 1.0 more by contrast? Personally, I always thought she was bland, one-dimensional and kind of snotty, self-superior and dismissive. Admittedly, though, she's now harder to take, if only because now she has more screen time yet somehow even less dimension and personality. 

[Old Dog]

I have a question for those of us who dislike JJ: Do you find that your current opinion of her decreases the degree to which you like (or not dislike) her even in early seasons, or does the current incarnation of JJ make you appreciate JJ 1.0 more by contrast? Personally, I always thought she was bland, one-dimensional and kind of snotty, self-superior and dismissive. Admittedly, though, she's now harder to take, if only because now she has more screen time yet somehow even less dimension and personality. 

I liked her as media liaison because she played a supporting role in which she had to be detached and a little snarky in handling the press. She always had a hint of the "mean girl" vibe but it suited the role she played and she also meshed better with the team, occasionally showing a vulnerable side. I don't rate the actress all that highly but she carried that role well and I missed her. The different being that returned not only pushed that "mean girl" vibe to the max but also for me exposed the actresses' limitations. Suddenly JJ is everywhere and doing everything. She out-profiles her seniors, out deduces a genius, out-leads her unit chief, out-fights all comers and then ends up knocking back the drinks in the bar. Then we had the 200 nonsense where it seems an FBI media liaison was headhunted to join the search for Bin Laden ahead of probably hundreds of more logical and suitably qualified candidates! What???  It all seems like a character from a comic book - Avengers Assemble! She has the most screentime pushing out the actors I view as the stars and watch to see. The over exposure and change to the character for me means that she just plain irritates the hell out of me and even her hair annoys me now. I think back to the JJ of earlier seasons as a fond memory. She even looks different now - from a pretty and believable liaison she has been honed into this whip thin sharp edged Hollywood stereotype.

Whoa! You provoked one of my rants with your question! I need to go for a cup of English tea and a lie down!

[Chaos Theory]

That'll up her ante come contract negotiation time. The Brass are very big on Q scores. It's one of the reasons they hired JLH.

Q scores are likeabililty scores. People (who aren't on this board) like JJ and AJ Cooke which explains why she is a top player on the show and the contovercy when she was written out.

[alexvillage]

I didn't care about JJ in the earlier seasons because she was in the background. That suited me because I don't like the actress, so I think it was a good place for her. 

Then she became the super-ninja-x-man-omnipresent-omniscient JJ. I still don't like the acting (and since there is so much of it, you can imagine the cringing fest while I watch), and I really dislike what the character has become. This combination makes it very hard for me to even have the good will to look at positive aspects of the character. Add to that the bad writing - probably bad directing too - and the whole thing is hopeless, as far as I am concerned.

I mostly FF through her scenes

[normasm]

I've said it before, but i liked original recipe JJ because her character had a logical function and fulfilled it in balance with the other characters, many of whom were more important in the show canon. This is also true of the way Garcia used to be written, a minor but important character who complimented the team and balanced out the overly serious subject matter.

 

I frequently see old episodes - written by different people, mind you - where JJ or Garcia is essential and helps make the episode complete. Now, the writing is all over the place with the characters and JJ is overused because her character has become standard-issue youngtoughfemalecop (read: easy to write), plus, she's a mom! Tack on some compassion cliches!

[amensisterfriend]

I always adored the theory that Early JJ was deliberately a bit of a haughty mean girl whose cultivated detachment enabled her to cope with her job and maybe some interesting personal issues we didn't yet know about. I watch early episodes with that fanwank in mind, and it makes the character more interesting and understandable to me. Unfortunately, I sometimes feel like that's giving the writers too much credit---I think they always intended (and still do?!) for JJ to be the sweet, endlessly compassionate 'heart' of the team but made the mistake of casting the part with a weirdly cold, eyeroll-prone actress who, IMO, usually exudes about as much genuine warmth as a doorknob :) 

[normasm]

Well, To Be Fair©2014CobaltStargazer , Early JJ was written by an almost entirely different team of writers. And I do think they had JJ as a self-protective woman who was brittle around the edges, but not a vulnerable cupcake at all.

Edited November 20, 2014 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Well, To Be Fair©2014CobaltStargazer , Early JJ was written by an almost entirely different team of writers. And I do think they had JJ as a self-protective woman who was brittle around the edges, but not a vulnerable cupcake at all.

 

Wow. Does this mean I'm a brand now? :-P

 

I can't remember the episode title right now, but there was a point where Reid even asked JJ if she'd been one of the mean girls in high school. She denied it, said that she was nice, but I'm not sure she was being entirely truthful. Cutting someone off at the pass by saying "I am never going to ComicCon with you" when the subject never came up isn't a learned skill, it's almost a talent. I'll leave it open to interpretation as to whether or not she thought he wasn't good enough for her, or maybe not "cool" enough.

[normasm]

CoStar, that was season 7, one or two episodes after their big tiff and makeup-at-Rossi's. JJ actually said, "No, I was not a mean girl I was nice, even to guys like you."

 

*mean girl*

[amensisterfriend]

"I am never going to ComicCon with you" when the subject never came up isn't a learned skill, it's almost a talent.

 

If I had to use one quote to illustrate why I could never 'ship JJ/Reid, even if she weren't a married mother, I think this is the one I'd pick! How snotty, self-superior and dismissive is that?!  I would so much rather Reid find the kind of woman who genuinely WANTS to go to Comic Con with him or, at the very least, is supportive of the fact that he's into that stuff. Meanwhile, JJ can hang out at the cool kids' table in the cafeteria and mock all the 'dorks' ;) And this scene occurred back when JJ was supposedly 'the sweet one', by the way.

 

In a weird way, I see JJ as a reverse Elle: Elle (for me!) is abrasive and snarky on the outside but with a surprisingly soft center, whileas JJ is seemingly the 'nice', small town, down-to-earth, good-at-everything-she-does All-American girl who inside is actually kind of a cold, detached, snotty jerk. 

 

 

 

I can't remember the episode title right now, but there was a point where Reid even asked JJ if she'd been one of the mean girls in high school. She denied it, said that she was nice,

 

I remember that scene really well. It was such a bizarre one to me, because JJ was so wholly unconvincing there in her 'mean girl' denial---I'm thinking it was an ever-so-magical combination of both poor writing and flat, lousy acting. She also added something to the effect of, "I was even nice to kids like YOU," like being tolerant of 'geeks' like Reid was deserving of praise...

 

Okay, maybe THAT'S the scene I'd use to cite why I could never 'ship JJ and Reid ;)

ETA: normasm, jinx!

Edited November 20, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[ForeverAlone]

The episode Reid called JJ out as a potential mean girl in high school was "Painless."

[zannej]

To answer the question about how JJ 2.0 makes me feel about original JJ-- I appreciate original JJ even more.

 

About the Comic Con thing, don't forget that JJ also sort of rolled her eyes and said "Wow" because Reid was continuing to talk and she interrupted him. I found that pretty rude, but I do wonder if he had tried to convince her to go to comic con in the past. Him having previously asked her was the only reason I could think of for her to bring it up; but it still wasn't nice. That was before it seemed that everyone started rolling their eyes at Reid and treating him like crap.

 

I agree that JJ was not at all convincing with the "guys like you" comment and Reid even got defensive and explained what he was like in high school. Personally, I hated that entire episode because I disagreed with the writer's decision to make them regress to high school behavior just because they were working a case at a high school. It was supposed to be for humor but it pissed me off and was out-of-character for all involved. So, I take that line from JJ with a grain of salt because I feel it was just bad writing.

[JMO]

Regarding the 'ComicCon Incident'---I've actually been surprised to hear so many people were upset by it. I always took it to mean that JJ knew Reid so well by then that she could predict where the conversation was going.  And I'm completely with her on not wanting to go to ComicCon.

 

The 'mean girl'/ 'guys like you' thing was a little bizarre, in both directions.  It was odd that Reid would start the conversation, and a major faux pas on JJ'spart that she would come back with the 'guys like you' remark.  I would have loved for them to have a followup conversation about that. 

 

It was true that the returned JJ was already acting like a bit of a mean girl, so the conversation might have made sense as a way for the writers to explore the character's transformation.  But that would indicate a capability for insight, and ----well, you know.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Regarding the 'ComicCon Incident'---I've actually been surprised to hear so many people were upset by it. I always took it to mean that JJ knew Reid so well by then that she could predict where the conversation was going.  And I'm completely with her on not wanting to go to ComicCon.

 

And the thing is, if JJ's not into ComicCon, then fine. If she's not into Spencer except as a friend, great. She doesn't have to do anything, and I know that there's this tendency to whip out the Nice Guy label if the dude in question pushes the issue or, y'know, expresses an opinion about other romantic choices, no matter how questionable (hi, Xander!). So maybe it's better that she gently but firmly lets him know that she isn't interested in doing X Whatever Thing. The key word there, though, is gently. Unless he'd been picking at her to go to ComicCon for an hour, or longer if he'd done it in the past, there's not very much reason (IMO) to act like she's bored to death with hearing about comic books and all comic-adjacent subjects. If she knows him well enough to know where the conversation is going, she also knows he has the tendency to ramble and tangent. There's no need to come off like she's trying to squash him.

[JMO]

I would agree with you, CoStar, but I didn't hear it that way at all. 

[missmycat]

Maybe this should be in the bullpen thread but I think it's applicable here. It's why I think EM is a hypocrite, saying if everyone can't have a personal story, then no one can. Show me where that's been the case the past few seasons. And I don't want a soap opera -- but they gave us these characters 10 years ago, and we grew to love them. Explore them, for Pete's sake. It's the writers' fault that we want more.

It's the source of my JJ irritation, and I don't want to be irritated with her. I used to love her. I'm liking her more this season, though.

http://tinyurl.com/mchczy8

I had forgotten about this article. I had to laugh at her analogy of liking it to giving children ice cream. Now if this woman really believes that there has been an equal portion of this so called ice cream dished out among the children(team). Well then she is just plain delusional.

[zannej]

for the record, Comic Con is awesome! JJ is missing out. I will find it absolutely hilarious if the show lasts long enough for JJ to complain that Henry wants to go to comic con.

 

Reid probably did babble on about comic books for long periods of time. I tend to do that too. So does my brother. My brother will babble on about things I'm not the least bit interested in, but I sit and listen because I'm not rude. He will interrupt me because he is rude. LOL. So I know how it feels to be in Reid's position with people being dicks and not extending the same courtesy that he extends to them.

 

I had more of an issue with JJ interrupting Reid than with her saying she would never go to comic con with him.

 

MMC, I have to agree that the ice cream distribution has not been at all equal.

[amensisterfriend]

Great points by everyone. I'm wondering if the ComicCon line, while not an exchange I'd be particularly wild about regardless, is an example of when AJ Cook's acting is more of an issue for me than the actual writing. I can picture Elle or Emily delivering that same line in a way that would come across a little more like good-natured teasing for me rather than the snotty, self-superior dismissal that we (IMO) often get from AJ Cook. 

[feverfew]

feverfew, I know I'm not missmycat, but high five to the cat lovers! I had 7 of my cats on my bed last night and probably had about 10 or 11 of them in my room.

 

Apparently Paget and Joe are cat people. Thomas and Matthew like dogs.

 

Now to make this back on topic, I wonder if JJ ever had pets growing up and whether or not she likes animals. I don't think she's ever mentioned pets and hasn't ever shown interest in dogs or cats (although I don't think she's ever been near them). 

It's an interesting idea; I would guess AJ is a dog person (I'm imagining a big dog, like a retriever or a lab). I always thought I was a cat person through and through, but I 'inherited' a dog, and it turned out I'm just as crazy about them. She's sleeping on my legs as we speak (best legwarmers right, zannej? :))

 

Missmycat, I'm so sorry to hear that. It hurts when you lose them.

 

I've said it before, but i liked original recipe JJ because her character had a logical function and fulfilled it in balance with the other characters, many of whom were more important in the show canon. This is also true of the way Garcia used to be written, a minor but important character who complimented the team and balanced out the overly serious subject matter.

 

I frequently see old episodes - written by different people, mind you - where JJ or Garcia is essential and helps make the episode complete. Now, the writing is all over the place with the characters and JJ is overused because her character has become standard-issue youngtoughfemalecop (read: easy to write), plus, she's a mom! Tack on some compassion cliches!

I think what is lacking in the later episodes are, as you say, the balance of the characters. One can critize Joss Whedon for a lot of things, but one of his strengths are his ability to write an ensemble. One of my favourite shows ever are Firefly, where he managed to fully flesh out his characters, while still maintaining their individual characteristics even though they, at the first glance, could seem like stock characters. But I think it's a very difficult process which demands writerly excellence, and coming from a business that is usually satisfied with a 'if it ain't broke' mentality, it's rare.

 

That doesn't mean we should stop demanding it, though.

 

In a weird way, I see JJ as a reverse Elle: Elle (for me!) is abrasive and snarky on the outside but with a surprisingly soft center, whileas JJ is seemingly the 'nice', small town, down-to-earth, good-at-everything-she-does All-American girl who inside is actually kind of a cold, detached, snotty jerk.

 

It's interesting that you juxaposition JJ and Elle; for me it's the exact opposite! :) I always thought that Elle wanted to give off an air of devil-may-care, but never quite managed it. I actually thought she really carried her heart on her sleeve; and that it was one of the reasons she cracked. JJ on the other hand, had a carefully maintained cold facade which she used to protect herself, and which we seldom saw cracking. The detachment was, for me, her way of dealing with the job. (But then I always pretend that Higher Ground was a precursor to CM; AJ played a deeply hurt character on that show, who hid her feelings behind a cold, bitchy demeanor).

Edited November 25, 2014 by feverfew

[Danielg342]

When it comes to JJ 1.0 vs JJ 2.0 I go back to this: JJ 1.0, like Garcia, had a niche role with the team, and while she would help with interviews, she largely left the investigative and takedown stuff with the rest of the team, much like Garcia did. So when JJ broke the mould every now and then and offered an insight or took down a criminal, I couldn't help but root for her because it was odd. With JJ 2.0, you don't get that “underdog” vibe- she's a profiler like the rest of the team, so she's supposed to help take down suspects and provide insights. Where's the fun in that?

I also believed JJ 1.0 filled a necessary role on the team- considering that serial killers often capture the press by storm, having someone that “controlled” the message was vital. I also believed JJ 1.0 had the professionalism to be able to be the team's “point woman” and take questions from the press or concerned families and the like. It was the way real investigative units worked- normally, the investigators don't talk to the press or deal with other people from the outside, because they need to do the job they're supposed to do- investigate. It was a layer the team needed, and it stinks that the show has decided to essentially forget any of this happens now to make up for the fact they don't have a liaison anymore.

I also believe the well was there for many storylines for a liaison. I find it hard to believe, even with difficult cases, that no one be it a police officer, a mayor, a sheriff or even a concerned citizen, has given the BAU grief for how they've handled a case. Stuff like that should happen quite often, and it would give JJ 1.0 plenty to do. Unfortunately the show was never creative enough to see that and it's a shame.

[Chaos Theory]

I am putting my response in the JJ page because it is probably where it belongs

 

Ok the Episode the "Tomarrow People" and what is going to be JJ and her PTSD is probably going to annoy some people but I think it is going to be a good storyline for her.  I have said this before I like AJ Cooke.  She is one of the big reasons I started watching Criminal Minds in the first place.  I loved her in "Higher Ground"  which I think was so much ahead of its time.   It came out in 2000 but if it came out now....it would probably be a hit on a network like ABC Family.  It would fit in well there.  A story about teenagers on the edge of being the states problem and the adults trying to keep them on the right side the law.  If that doesn't sceam "A new kind of family"  I don't know what does.  AJ Cooke played one of young leads and the most interesting character on the show.  

 

Now I know a lot of people say AJ Cooke cannot act and I disagree completely with that (but you are entitled to your opinion).  I happen to think that people who hate a character let in influence how they view an actor.  I try not to do that myself (although I might have on occasion).  I happen to work in reverse. I follow actors to their next roll even if it is not a show I would normally watch.  How do you think I started watching Sons of Anarchy and Sparactus....hell even Criminal Minds was a bit of a stretch for me but AJ Cooke and Thomas Gibson....and well lets be honest Mandy Patinkin were on it.  

 

As for JJ's PTSD story it will work for many who watch the show and more important It is a story that needs to be told.  How many soldiers fighting overseas come back different?  And for better or worse JJ is a character many people connect with.  She is white. blonde, blue eyed and a mother.  Is it right?  Probably not. But it is true.  It is easy to connect with her on a visceral level and watching her self destruct will be painful to watch for the  core audience of middle America CBS watchers.   

 

I actually am going to enjoy the PTSD storyline and this coming from someone who has more or less stopped watching the show.  I have gotten bored of the show lately for no reason whatsoever.  I am just tired of the show but when I turned on the episode quite by accident I was entertained for the first time in like forever and the last few minutes of the episode I was riveted and that hasn't happened in like forever.  

Edited January 15, 2015 by Chaos Theory