Kol Mikaelson: It's all topsy turvy over here, darling.

[slayer2]

A place to discuss the most...adventurous of Mikaelsons.

Is there ANY chance we can just have Nate back instead of this new dude. I mean new dude is good and all and I'm sure I'd be happy to accept him as another character but the chance of Nate is the only reason I'm sticking with this godforsaken show. I mean they've taken Rebekah and her Klaus-loathing and turned Elijah into a little bitch. NB's Kol is all I have left. (Well, Marcel but his odds against the Klaus are kind of like Damon's).

[bluebonnet]

It's pretty amazing that I love both of these characters.  I can see Kol in Kaleb, but I want original Kol back so that we can have both him and Kaleb.  Sure, the real Kaleb might be a completely different person but I think the actor is strong enough to keep around.  Plus, Finn talked about Cami being a vessel as though some parts of her might bleed through if Rebekah takes over her.  Maybe we've some of the real Kaleb.  

 

tl;dr, i want them both!

[slayer2]

I feel like among Julie Plec's many tragic flaws, one is her useless, pointless vendetta against Nate Buzolic. There isn't a reason on the planet why he shouldn't be a permanent staple of a show called The Originals. He's one of the strongest actors I've ever seen on TVD and The Originals. He has humour, presence and is an affable, likeable presence with the fans. I'm so bitter. This new guy Daniel is a pretty good actor himself but I just miss my NB  Kol so much, my true Kol. I've been waiting for his return since he left

[bluebonnet]

What is this vendetta?  I've seen it discussed before but I've never found anything that supports she actually has a vendetta against NB.  

[driedfruit]

I thought it was insane how she killed him off in season four, knowing that they were gonna have the spin off. It made no sense. She must really hate NB. But I'd like more details on this too.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree...I mean, NB appeared in flashbacks this season. Appeared on TVD last season. He was attached to that Supernatural spinoff pilot for The CW for this season, which is presumably why they went with Sharman. I personally prefer DS as an actor, but I like both of their portrayals of Kol, and would be happy to have Nate back.

[slayer2]

But NB would be recurring as Daniel Gillies was first season, if Daniel Gillies can do two series at once, why on earth couldn't they work something out for NB? Every time I see this new guy it's like a knife in my chest. It's not as if he doesn't have the talent (NewKol) but Plec knew how many fans wanted NB back and that there was an active campaign to bring him back. Hell, in season 5 the writer of the episode even states through Kol's own mouth "When I was pointlessly killed by Jeremy." For me it feels as though she is purposely not committing to Nate. She knows how much the fans clamour for him and how well he does at Comicon and other conventions and she chooses to bring back the character but not the actor? Imagine she had done that to Elijah and Daniel Gillies? The fanbase is similar, people have really connected with both actors. Outrage I say, Outrage.

[Carrie Ann]

But NB would be recurring as Daniel Gillies was first season, if Daniel Gillies can do two series at once, why on earth couldn't they work something out for NB? Every time I see this new guy it's like a knife in my chest. It's not as if he doesn't have the talent (NewKol) but Plec knew how many fans wanted NB back and that there was an active campaign to bring him back. Hell, in season 5 the writer of the episode even states through Kol's own mouth "When I was pointlessly killed by Jeremy." For me it feels as though she is purposely not committing to Nate. She knows how much the fans clamour for him and how well he does at Comicon and other conventions and she chooses to bring back the character but not the actor? Imagine she had done that to Elijah and Daniel Gillies? The fanbase is similar, people have really connected with both actors. Outrage I say, Outrage.

 

Daniel Gillies was a series regular in S1, and still is in S2, so I'm not sure what you mean by him being recurring. Also, his other series only airs in Canada now, IIRC, and the shooting schedules must line up properly for this to work.

 

Had Nate's series made it to air, it would have been on The CW and he would have been the lead. It would have been impossible for him to also play Kol. Period. There is a huge difference between those two situations.

 

But anyway, NB's series not getting picked up wasn't decided by the time S1 wrapped, and I'm not sure it was decided by June/July when the show started filming again. But even if it was, they'd already signed Daniel Sharman, because NB was unavailable, so I'm just not getting the outrage. They came up with this clever storyline so that they could bring back three Original family members with different actors. If they recast Rebekah, I won't be surprised or outraged either. (If DG left and they recast Elijah, I wouldn't be outraged. I'd just drop the show.)

 

Anyway, now they decide how to proceed for the rest of this season or next, depending on the contract with DS and whether NB is actively booking new projects, or if the TO people have communicated some plan to him and his team.

[slayer2]

He was recurring in the beginning of season 1 or at least I considered him that since Elijah was stolen and Daniel was missing for a good few episodes and didn't start becoming a mainstay until at least 5 episodes into season 1. I remember fan outcry because we were starting to believe that even DG wouldn't be a series regular and it all seemed so pointless.

Also to your point Daniel Gillies is also a lead on this show, and even though the show he's on only airs in Canada (where I'm from) doesn't make it any less amount of work, he's playing leads on two shows is my point. NB's show hadn't even been picked up for a few episodes nevermind a season all he had was a backdoor pilot so I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to work something out. They had decided not to pick up Bloodlines (?) rather quickly after the disappointing pilot (I believe in a matter of weeks).

 

Furthermore he was never approached as per any indication pertaining to interviews he has given regarding this. He has gone on record many times to say that he would be happy to come back and had not been invited for The Originals, when pressed on the subject he advised that he didn't know what would happen there but he would be happy to reprise his role. Of season 1 I could stretch to believe possible scheduling conflicts but not for season 2.

 

Julie Plec has gone on record to say that she thought that NB played the role of Kol wrong and has publicly shamed Kol/NB fans for pushing their ship (Bonnie/Kol) and trying to bring NB back to the show. She claimed she would only do it if the storyline is right and that she wouldn't sacrifice a story to please fans. This from the one who brought us Klaus (who technically should have died season 3) and rendered him unkillable and also the woman who brought us Delena. I can see what you're trying to say but I'm just not buying it. Plec knows how big the Kol/NB fanbase is and how long we've lobbied to get him back and how open NB was to joining The Originals and how much we wanted him here and instead she chose to recast. She found a way to bring Jeremy and Alaric back from the dead in the same body yet Kol was recasted. This is a hot button for me because it represents the way Plec views the shows fans and how she regularly degrades them. I have no doubt in my mind that NB was available for The Originals season 2 but Plec chose to cast someone new instead.

Edited November 26, 2014 by slayer2

[driedfruit]

But anyway, NB's series not getting picked up wasn't decided by the time S1 wrapped, and I'm not sure it was decided by June/July when the show started filming again. But even if it was, they'd already signed Daniel Sharman, because NB was unavailable, so I'm just not getting the outrage. They came up with this clever storyline so that they could bring back three Original family members with different actors. If they recast Rebekah, I won't be surprised or outraged either. (If DG left and they recast Elijah, I wouldn't be outraged. I'd just drop the show.)

 

 

The problem is, they knew Claire wouldn't be staying on The Originals as early as season four of TVD. And yet, instead of including NB in The Originals to make up for this loss, they pointlessly killed off his character. Only to bring the character back after the actor stopped being available. It's pretty fishy.

[slayer2]

The problem is, they knew Claire wouldn't be staying on The Originals as early as season four of TVD. And yet, instead of including NB in The Originals to make up for this loss, they pointlessly killed off his character. Only to bring the character back after the actor stopped being available. It's pretty fishy.

I agree. If you know you are doing a spinoff of The Original vampires and only have 2 originals basically cast then what kind of sense does that make. The episode that sold me on the spinoff in the first place was the one where they were all dressing for their mother's party.

The chemistry between all of them is phenomenal and the character of Kol had ions left of story to tell. To randomly kill him off and in the most offensive of deaths, killed by a baby vampire and an amateur hunter then lit on fire and left to rot for days, it just implies malice.

Perhaps Plec was bitter about the onslaught of Kol fans over Klaus fans or the Kennet shippers. I can't help but recall the time she berated us by saying that it was crazy to want a moral and upstanding Bonnie with a serial killer whilst she pushed the Klaroline and Delena agenda.

It's all so frustrating and with this recast and Rebekah likely being recast with Cami of all people it only makes me more angry.

Edited November 26, 2014 by slayer2

[bluebonnet]

Hmm, this seems more like it's a vendetta the fans have against Plec for the choices she made on her own shows.  I see no implication of malice towards NB just because his character was killed...on a shower where dozens of characters each season are killed.  Kol is still one of those who has been brought back.  He even has his own webisode series.  *shrug* This just seems like making mountains out of a speck of dust.  

 

The webisodes are pretty fun to watch, btw.  Kol is just one of those enjoyable caricature villains.  He takes such pleasure and delight in his devilry.  It's great.  

[GraceAnne]

 

This is a hot button for me because it represents the way Plec views the shows fans and how she regularly degrades them.

I always found this amusing about Julie Plec.

She constantly goes on about organic stories and not letting the fans decide where a character goes.... That is until she needs ratings or it benefits her.

To be clear I'm not criticizing "fan servicing" or writing to the popularity of an actor, but I'm aware this show is on The CW and it's par for the course with this type of show. Whereas I have different standards when I watch Homeland compared to let's say Hart of Dixie. 

 

Back on topic- While I enjoy the current portrayal of Kol, I do miss Nate Buzolic in the role.  I felt there was more a brothers vibe with Klaus, Elijah, and the old Kol.

One of my favorite scenes from TVD was the 3 of them going to confront Esther ( and Finn) in the snow.

 

[driedfruit]

Hmm, this seems more like it's a vendetta the fans have against Plec for the choices she made on her own shows.  I see no implication of malice towards NB just because his character was killed...on a shower where dozens of characters each season are killed. 

It's more about their confusion than a vendetta. It was surprising that she killed off one of the most interesting elements left to the family for the barest of reasons (and she had to stretch her own rules of vampire strength to oblivion to do it too). It was sloppy and senseless, so it makes sense that people question her choices and wonder if there's more to the story.

 

I love DS in the role, but we're gonna hit problems with flashbacks, which are some of my favorite elements of the show. They already have to make stupid excuses for Claire and there's only so much back story they can tell with just Elijah and Klaus.

Edited November 26, 2014 by driedfruit

[slayer2]

It's more about their confusion than a vendetta. It was surprising that she killed off one of the most interesting elements left to the family for the barest of reasons (and she had to stretch her own rules of vampire strength to oblivion to do it too). It was sloppy and senseless, so it makes sense that people question her choices and wonder if there's more to the story.

I love DS in the role, but we're gonna hit problems with flashbacks, which are some of my favorite elements of the show. They already have to make stupid excuses for Claire and there's only so much back story they can tell with just Elijah and Klaus.

Agreed. Someone had tweeted Plec saying that if she wanted the Kol fans to stop requesting his return then all she had to do was kill him in the most violent way possible that guaranteed he wouldn't return. Plec tweeted back "did that."

If this is not a vendetta against the fans of NB's Kol or Kol himself then I know not what is. To refuse to pair him with a love interest because "he's a murderous vampire?" Whilst Klaroline and Delena roam free? It's like she's not even trying.

Constant tweets shaming the Kol fanbase and telling us that she only writes for herself and the story have proved baseless in the face of other ships and pets that she favours. Klaus over Elijah or Kol, Damon over Stefan, Caroline over Bonnie, her biases are overwhelming to me and frustrating as hell but it just so happens NB's Kol is my favourite character of the Vampire Diaries universe and Bonnie second to that so naturally I'm always being shit on.

Mileage varies but I don't think Plec had anything to do with the choice for webisodes and frankly the fact that they even have them speaks volumes for the fan base. If she can give Delena a kiss in the rain based solely on fan request then she can give us Nate Buzolic back as Kol.

[TheHappinessHotel]

I just came in here to weep a little bit.  I miss Nate.  How can she ignore all our pleas to bring him back?  We are relentless.

 

Although, Plec ignored the Klaroline shippers and then set the ship itself on fire.  

 

I don't like her much.

[GraceAnne]

I've given up trying to understand Julie Plec and to a lesser degree her writers.
 

I like Nate as Kol and I liked Klaus/Caroline.... (On these types of shows I'm all about charisma and chemistry. What can I say I'm shallow and easy in regards to my CW shows.) But everytime she gets questioned about either it's like she's sooo burdened and annoyed.
 

While I know some fans are aggressive and overtop, I'm not... I'm just a 30 year old reading an ET weekly article finding your comment abrasive considering I'm a fan and watch your shows weekly.
 

Anyway, I've been under the impression some of her stubbornness has really lead her shows to miss out on some storylines that could have been great. But don't worry Elena ( on TVD)  will be captured for the millionth time this week and THAT I should be so excited about.
 

Go figure.

Edited January 22, 2015 by GraceAnne

[wednesbury]

I've given up trying to understand Julie Plec and to a lesser degree her writers.

 

I like Nate as Kol and I liked Klaus/Caroline.... (On these types of shows I'm all about charisma and chemistry. What can I say I'm shallow and easy in regards to my CW shows.) But everytime she gets questioned about either it's like she's sooo burdened and annoyed.

 

While I know some fans are aggressive and overtop, I'm not... I'm just a 30 year old reading an ET weekly article finding your comment abrasive considering I'm a fan and watch your shows weekly.

 

I'm not trying to be a huge Julie Plec defender or anything...  I think she has her moments and I think she's also made (and continues to make) choices that I would consider... missteps.  Some small (moving Esther from Cassie's body to Lenore's), some I'd consider major (Delena, Steroline, Beremy, the criminally underusing of Matt, Haley, Camille, Delena, the whole baby plot, turning Haley into a hybrid, having Elijah kill Celeste without so much as batting an eyelash, this backwoods werewolf marriage ritual nonsense... honestly the list is quite long).

 

But I can't imagine how un-fun it must be to be her, when it comes to some of the fans of her shows. ALOT of them are extremely aggressive, over the top, and  consistently take her comments, the actors comments, or even a yawn or slight eye roll from an actor caught on camera as the gospel fact that she has no idea what she is doing and that they can make decisions about these shows a hell of a lot better than she can. But who knows, maybe they're right...(shakes head).

 

Also for every time you see her being asked about Kol or Klaroline or maybe even Bamon these days in an interview there are probably 100 more tweets, letters, people stopping her in the streets to ask the same thing. I think you can get why it would be a little annoying. Heaven forbid she read the comment threads of those interviews when they are posted online. 

 

@slayer2 I don't think the recasting of Kol, was a simple as let's piss off the fans.  That they continue to use him in the flashbacks should be proof enough of that.  And despite any comments she might have made about NB being right for the role, his death on TVD had purpose.  I like the new Kol, in fact I like him better than the old Kol, because with Caleb I can see how someone might be charmed or lulled into the idea that he is anything but extremely dangerous.  I never got that from Nate.

 

And now after all that defending of JP, I'll have to go re-watch that last ep of TVD and remind myself why I'm supposed to hate her.

Edited February 1, 2015 by wednesbury

[driedfruit]

And despite any comments she might have made about NB being right for the role, his death on TVD had purpose.

 

I disagree. The only thing that mess accomplished was Jeremy completing his mark in the cheapest way possible. Because why bother giving Jeremy character development by having him face the ugliness of what the marks meant when you can completely retcon the show's mythology? A twist that cheap falls under pointless imo.

 

I like the new Kol, in fact I like him better than the old Kol, because with Caleb I can see how someone might be charmed or lulled into the idea that he is anything but extremely dangerous.  I never got that from Nate.

 

I like Kaleb, but he's nothing like Kol. There were comments in the last episode thread about Kaleb being more like a completely new Mikaelson, not Kol in a new body, and I've got to agree. Considering how often Plec retcons, I'm surprised she didn't just cast Daniel as a never heard of Mikaelson brother.

Edited February 2, 2015 by driedfruit

[GraceAnne]

I'm not trying to be a huge Julie Plec defender or anything...  I think she has her moments and I think she's also made (and continues to make) choices that I would consider... missteps.  Some small (moving Esther from Cassie's body to Lenore's), some I'd consider major (Delena, Steroline, Beremy, the criminally underusing of Matt, Haley, Camille, Delena, the whole baby plot, turning Haley into a hybrid, having Elijah kill Celeste without so much as batting an eyelash, this backwoods werewolf marriage ritual nonsense... honestly the list is quite long).

 

But I can't imagine how un-fun it must be to be her, when it comes to some of the fans of her shows. ALOT of them are extremely aggressive, over the top, and  consistently take her comments, the actors comments, or even a yawn or slight eye roll from an actor caught on camera as the gospel fact that she has no idea what she is doing and that they can make decisions about these shows a hell of a lot better than she can. But who knows, maybe they're right...(shakes head).

 

Also for every time you see her being asked about Kol or Klaroline or maybe even Bamon these days in an interview there are probably 100 more tweets, letters, people stopping her in the streets to ask the same thing. I think you can get why it would be a little annoying. Heaven forbid she read the comment threads of those interviews when they are posted online. 

 

And now after all that defending of JP, I'll have to go re-watch that last ep of TVD and remind myself why I'm supposed to hate her.

 

Here's the thing... I agree it probably sucks to be barraged with rabid fans and their comments, complaints, questions, etc. In just about every job you have to deal with an unsatisfied consumer at some point, and that’s exactly what we the viewers are consumers.   My company actually does mandatory training for everyone just on the off chance you have to deal with someone.

And guess what?  While I don’t dislike my job, believe me I ain’t Living the Dream!  These writers and producers are getting to do what thousands of creative people would give their eye teeth to be able to do!

So my empathy level is somewhat low for JP and company.

It also could be that she seems to relish in acting like a 15 year old swooning girl in most interviews and on social media.

Who knows.

 

Dear lord that last TVD episode will definitely help! LOL

[driedfruit]

I agree, there's no excuse for JP's behaviour. She's an adult women who gets paid a ridiculous amount of money to write whatever uninspired drivel her shipper heart desires. Her life is hardly difficult.

[wednesbury]

I disagree. The only thing that mess accomplished was Jeremy completing his mark in the cheapest way possible. Because why bother giving Jeremy character development by having him face the ugliness of what the marks meant when you can completely retcon the show's mythology? A twist that cheap falls under pointless imo.

 

Oh shit, I forgot.  It was Finn getting killed that explained that killing an original would destroy his entire blood line not Kol.  My bad.

[PinkRibbons]

What I never understood about them killing Kol (and his bloodline in a domino effect), was, well, when exactly did the Mystic Falls gang figure out who was their progenitor? I know Klaus said it was him outright, but he's hardly a trustworthy person and saying so was an ironclad way to keep himself alive. We know from a conversation Rebecca had with I think Elijah that Klaus is in fact the start of the bloodline, but I must have missed when the MF people starting being positive.

 

And of course no one ever brings up the irony of killing him when he was completely and utterly right about keeping Silas locked up. That was actually incredibly noble of him, even if his whole arm-choppy thing was a gross idea.

[driedfruit]

What I never understood about them killing Kol (and his bloodline in a domino effect), was, well, when exactly did the Mystic Falls gang figure out who was their progenitor? I know Klaus said it was him outright, but he's hardly a trustworthy person and saying so was an ironclad way to keep himself alive.

 

They just took Klaus' word for it, since earlier that season Elena was looking to kill Rebekah. 

 

The worst part of Kol getting killed off like that was how no one even wanted the cure in the end. So all those 1000s of dead vampires were killed for nothing.

[GraceAnne]

They just took Klaus' word for it, since earlier that season Elena was looking to kill Rebekah. 

 

The worst part of Kol getting killed off like that was how no one even wanted the cure in the end. So all those 1000s of dead vampires were killed for nothing.

 

This still bothers me!

I mean, what a bunch of A-holes.... And never once are they like " Guess we killed all those (possibly) innocent and unsuspecting vampires for no good reason.... Whoopsie, our bad."

Such a bunch of self involved idiots over in Mystic Falls.

[driedfruit]

This still bothers me!

I mean, what a bunch of A-holes.... And never once are they like " Guess we killed all those (possibly) innocent and unsuspecting vampires for no good reason.... Whoopsie, our bad."

Such a bunch of self involved idiots over in Mystic Falls.

 

Right? I was done with TVD after that. And I'm never looking back. 

[slayer2]

First, thank goodness someone mentioned that: that Kol was murdered by our 'good guys' for actually trying to do the right thing. For the sake of Elena's precious humanity, thousands of vampires were murdered to risk the resurrection a psychopath in order to restore Elena's humanity to herself. It was the height of evil, selfishness, Protagonist Centred (A)morality and that was literally the last straw for me with Elena Gilbert.

Moving on... Kol/Bonnie (Kennett) was labelled as 'sick, wrong, twisted, how dare you ship strong, beautiful, brave Bonnie with an evil psychopath like Kol Mikaelson!' by Julie Plec.

Now the Originals Season 2 and guess who is being paired with evil psychopath Kol Mikaelson.... strong, beautiful, brave and even younger Davina.

It is indeed curious how Julie Plec can make Kol Mikaelson and any number of so called 'psychopaths' work when the strong, beautiful women in their lives are not Black.

Word to all of this!! Kol killing Jeremy or ripping his arms of would have been dear mercy on him. Still don't get how Bonnie hated Kol so much when Silas MURDERED her father. If you all had listened to him to begin with the garbage of season 3 (4?) never would have happened. Kol was right they were wrong, end of story...oh wait...addendum they're all selfish douchebags.

[ShadowHunter]

Its amazing how Kol has become my favorite Original. It use to be Elijah I still like him but he was better in Season 2 and 3 of TVD.

I can understand why he loves Davina since she cares for him an shows more love then his siblings do. I think they care for him but the core group is Klaus,Elijah,and Rebekah. 

Kol has felt even second to Marcel.

He has died twice now that is enough. 

Echo other posts about him being murdered by the "good guys" lolol. He was right about Silas and everyone he turned also died.

I am glad he is back on the show and in a relationship even though he should have been on since day one.

[Fireball]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2015 at 10:16 PM, driedfruit said:

I like Kaleb, but he's nothing like Kol. There were comments in the last episode thread about Kaleb being more like a completely new Mikaelson, not Kol in a new body, and I've got to agree. Considering how often Plec retcons, I'm surprised she didn't just cast Daniel as a never heard of Mikaelson brother.

Kaleb always felt like a new Mikaelson to me. Even when Nate Buzolic came back; Kol still felt like Kol 2.0 to me. 

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2015 at 0:44 PM, doram said:

Now the Originals Season 2 and guess who is being paired with evil psychopath Kol Mikaelson.... strong, beautiful, brave and even younger Davina. 

Sooo Kol is getting engaged to Davina. I can't bring myself to care. I really have a hard time with Kol being in love with Davina. I was sure when their relationship started that Kol was only playing on Davina's emotions and wasn't really in love with her.