Small Talk: The Quiver

[lemotomato]

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it? :)

There are only a handful of couples on the list that I seriously shipped (Mulder/Scully, Logan/Veronica, Syd/Vaughn, Nathan/Haley) and all of them went through at least one full season of stalling/breakup after getting together. That's pretty much why even though I don't like what's been done to Olicity in 4B and this season, I'm not too worried about endgame. And we got really good stuff (sex scene! cozy domesticity! proposal!) while they were together, which is more than I can say for a lot of the couples on that list.

[Mellowyellow]

I didn't realise Syd/Vaughn had such a rough time! I read up on it and they had a lovely ending with kids and all but I must have missed all the coming back from the dead bits! 

[lemotomato]

Syd and Vaughn got together mid-season 2, were together for half a season, stalled during all of season 3, spent season 4 more or less together, and then spent the 5th and final season mostly apart because of what I suspect were BTS reasons. It was a bit of a roller coaster, to say the least.

[LeighAn]

Rumor has it Ben Affleck wasn't comfortable with Vartan given his and Jens past relationship- true or not I can't say.

[thegirlsleuth]

Although she's positioned as America's sweetheart, I have heard some unpleasant stories about Jennifer Garner through some friends who are in the television industry.  In particular, she dumped Vartan once she had Affleck in her sights, and then she pushed Vartan off the show once pregnant. Vartan was heartbroken.  I only watched the first season, so I don't know how it came across on screen, and this is all second hand. 

[lemotomato]

I felt really sorry for Vartan, who had to on-screen propose to Garner after she dumped him for Affleck. And after he took a break from the show either voluntarily or not, as soon as he came back he had to do a scene where Vaughn and Syd are in bed cooing over their new baby, right after Garner had her baby. I remember thinking that he was either a much better actor than I gave him credit for or he was still in love with her, because his heart eyes in those scenes were intense. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

Omg!!!!! That sounds terrible!!!!

Haha you're making me appreciate Arrow! SA and EBR remind me of Thea and Ollie as portrayed in fanfic which I suppose is a good thing! No BTS shenanigans.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Although she's positioned as America's sweetheart, I have heard some unpleasant stories about Jennifer Garner through some friends who are in the television industry.  In particular, she dumped Vartan once she had Affleck in her sights, and then she pushed Vartan off the show once pregnant. Vartan was heartbroken.  I only watched the first season, so I don't know how it came across on screen, and this is all second hand. 

Season two when they were dating and their characters got together wasn't a problem.  I really didn't think too much about the BTS stuff and everything was great ( until SPOILER the season ended with Sydney waking up with amnesia to find that two years had passed and everyone had thought she'd been dead and oops, the love of her life got married -talk about worst case fear for Arrow) I don't recall too much bugging me in season three but by season four when Jen and Ben were EVERYWHERE, I couldn't enjoy anything that happened with my ship because of what I knew.  Every time we got a good moment, my mind started drifting to real life.  Nearly ruined the show for me.   

I have since then rewatched the series with a friend that didn't know any of this stuff.  Time gave me the distance to enjoy it and she didn't pick up on anything in their acting that felt off.  Sydney and Vaughn are a great ship.  In the final season where he was only there at the end, yeah, the heart eyes in the baby scene were blinding but by then she and Ben were married and had a kid so I don't think they were anything but him channeling his character, but still, Alias is the story I tell to discourage anyone from ever shipping in real life.  It can ruin everything both behind the scenes and on screen like nothing else can.  

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

SA and EBR remind me of Thea and Ollie as portrayed in fanfic which I suppose is a good thing! 

I keep scrolling past Queencest fics even now.  So not sure that's the best comparison, lol.  ;)

Edited March 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

I keep scrolling past Queencest fics even now.  So not sure that's the best comparison, lol.  ;)

Deary me nooooooo!!! That's NOT what I meant! I am a strictly Olicity fic girl and they remind me of the young chirpy Thea and Big Brother Oliver (or stupid big brother Ollie) sibling interactions!!!!! Nothing sketchy!!!!!!

Edited March 1, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[dtissagirl]

The BTS shit on Alias was TOP NOTCH. Garner and Vartan started making eyes at each other while she was still married to Scott Foley. I've read gossip articles saying to this day Foley refuses to talk to her, so it was BAD.

And then history repeated itself for Vartan. LOL.

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

The BTS shit on Alias was TOP NOTCH. Garner and Vartan started making eyes at each other while she was still married to Scott Foley. I've read gossip articles saying to this day Foley refuses to talk to her, so it was BAD.

And then history repeated itself for Vartan. LOL.

And didn't she start dating Scott Foley when she was working on "Felicity" with him?  On set romances seem to be her thing.  

[Mellowyellow]

I saw a video of her once talking about Ben Affleck after she worked with him on Daredevil and she totally had heart eyes. This was when he was still part of Bennifer.

I was kinda sad when they called it quits! I always got the impression she was REALLY into him and wanted it to work out well for her.

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

And didn't she start dating Scott Foley when she was working on "Felicity" with him?  On set romances seem to be her thing.  

Yes.

I've always wondered how awkward were things for Greg Grunberg and JJ Abrams through the Alias years, after they'd been there for the Felicity years.

[LeighAn]

Well I mean I guess what goes around comes around considering how Jennifer and Ben ended...

That being said something about Ben just makes me think deadbeat.

[Mellowyellow]

I have a knack for shipping these real life couples and then feeling so sad when they inevitably break up!

Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds are a favourite as well! I will probably howl when they break up!

[dtissagirl]

Batfleck and Matt Damon spent A LOT OF MONEYS this Oscar season to ~protect~ Casey Affleck from the sexual assault charges. Not just putting money into the best actor campaign, but also actively trying to get the women who accused him blacklisted. Garbage men are garbage.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

I have a knack for shipping these real life couples and then feeling so sad when they inevitably break up!

Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds are a favourite as well! I will probably howl when they break up!

The only couples I real life ship are the old fogies that already have years and years under their belt.  Think Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson or Pierce Brosnan and Keely Shaye Smith.  Even Mark Hamon and Pam Dawber.  

[bijoux]

I had no idea that Mark Harmon and Pam Dawber are husband and wife. That's cool.

[LeighAn]

I'll be devastated if I hear Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell are breaking up. Overboard to this day is on my classic film list.

[Bort]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson

Except that Tom Hanks had to dump his previous wife first. That one isn't without tears being shed either. Although he and Rita Wilson do seem to have some staying power.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Except that Tom Hanks had to dump his previous wife first. That one isn't without tears being shed either. Although he and Rita Wilson do seem to have some staying power.

That's not great (ignorance for me on that was bliss), but after twenty years, I'd be bummed if they broke up.  

 

7 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I'll be devastated if I hear Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell are breaking up. Overboard to this day is on my classic film list.

Yes, their on my list as well.  :D

[kismet]

20 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I didn't realise Syd/Vaughn had such a rough time! I read up on it and they had a lovely ending with kids and all but I must have missed all the coming back from the dead bits! 

OMG, it was horrible. The safe house in Hong Kong in the s2 finale, literally had me balling with the ring, they didn't explain until the premiere. And then the Santa Barbara car accident that still makes me jump. Nearly every season was torture for them and by proxy their fans. Although s3 was the worst I would say with the Lauren. It was TV magic, all the little and big moments, almost and hot damn moments. It was just amazing. Always edge of your seat.

That being said, I will love that couple probably forever because I felt them from the beginning to the end. And even in their furthest ends of their break-ups, I knew they still cared deeply about each other. The writers wrote just about every romantic relationship TV trope into this couple and they wrote it so well. On top of great writing, there was also amazing chemistry. It was a beautifully written relationship.

I highly recommend watching it.... Just youtube some greatest hits, for starters.

And that's only the beginning, the sexual tension of s1, the fights of s3. The pure joy of them getting together in s2. You almost forget that she chose to start her mission because her fiancee died in the pilot.

All I can say, is they will go up there in the hall of fame of how to write & stall a couple that is narratively appetizing, does not compromise character journeys and overcomes insane BTS drama.

Seriously, you will not regret watching Alias. Besides the addicting S/V, there were many other badass characters, relationships, journeys, and some solid storytelling.

Edited March 2, 2017 by kismet

[kismet]

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And didn't she start dating Scott Foley when she was working on "Felicity" with him?  On set romances seem to be her thing.  

Well, she was young and spent most of her days on sets. I do think its inevitable that the dating pool might be on set. And she has had a slew of attractive co-stars who seem really fun to hang out with.

15 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I saw a video of her once talking about Ben Affleck after she worked with him on Daredevil and she totally had heart eyes. This was when he was still part of Bennifer.

I was kinda sad when they called it quits! I always got the impression she was REALLY into him and wanted it to work out well for her.

Ben & Jen had been circling each other since their time on Pearl Harbor, which predates Bennifer. I do believe that they have always had a thing for each other, they just didn't get the timing right for a long time. She mentioned she didn't realize the depth of her feelings until she did Elektra, and Ben was not there. I'm willing to believe her that she was slow to realize what she had with Ben, and perhaps got into other relationships along the way that maybe she should have avoided if she was listening to her heart. Then again, Ben had issues, so maybe she was just trying to avoid having her heart broken and really thought she could make it work with SF & MV, who seem like nice guys.

I think Bennifer was a try-on relationship for Ben & JLo, both of them trying on people with similar paths, but completely different journeys. It was doomed to failure, plus it felt a little too polished. Anyone else remember that 2 part interview?? Even my Mom called bullshit on the relationship lasting, and she barely dabbles in celebrity gossip.

I was heartbroken when Ben & Jen broke just because 1. the children and 2. I think they really love each other, I just think Ben lives an incompatible lifestyle to a young family. She seems all Americana family and he seems slightly broken either obsessed with his projects or gambling.

15 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

I've always wondered how awkward were things for Greg Grunberg and JJ Abrams through the Alias years, after they'd been there for the Felicity years.

She was on Felicity for a hot second. A few guest gigs. I don't even think her & GG's characters spent time together on Felicity. And who's to say they cared about JG & SF's coupling & break-up? I truly believe SF & JG were just young people that got married too fast and never really processed what marriage meant. They met on the show, but it was not connected to Felicity. Plus by the time the Alias BTS drama was really heating up, I think JJ had moved on to another project. Regardless of the BTS stuff, JG & MV always delivered an awesome performance, which is probably all JJ cared about.

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Season two when they were dating and their characters got together wasn't a problem.  I really didn't think too much about the BTS stuff and everything was great ( until SPOILER the season ended with Sydney waking up with amnesia to find that two years had passed and everyone had thought she'd been dead and oops, the love of her life got married -talk about worst case fear for Arrow) I don't recall too much bugging me in season three but by season four when Jen and Ben were EVERYWHERE, I couldn't enjoy anything that happened with my ship because of what I knew.  Every time we got a good moment, my mind started drifting to real life.  Nearly ruined the show for me.   

I have since then rewatched the series with a friend that didn't know any of this stuff.  Time gave me the distance to enjoy it and she didn't pick up on anything in their acting that felt off.  Sydney and Vaughn are a great ship.  In the final season where he was only there at the end, yeah, the heart eyes in the baby scene were blinding but by then she and Ben were married and had a kid so I don't think they were anything but him channeling his character, but still, Alias is the story I tell to discourage anyone from ever shipping in real life.  It can ruin everything both behind the scenes and on screen like nothing else can. 

I watched it both ways. I followed Alias live, followed the gossip live, as well as have binged it more than a few times. I will say I never saw their personal relationship ever interfere with the professional relationship. For most of the series, I was able to see a distinct difference between the two couples. It also probably helps that I love Jen G, but I never saw her as Sydney. They were two distinct people for me. I think she shares a part of her personality with Sydney, but she always seemed more like her character in Felicity. The only time, I definitely could blame J/M's outside relationship was MV being written out of s5. I do think he had reached his breaking point there. So I do respect that the actors and the writers found a way to let him out of the show that did not destroy the couple. And even up to and beyond the final episodes when he was back, I never detected a change in MV's acting or MV the character. So either he really still loved JG or he was just that good/devoted of an actor. Probably a combination.

The relationship that really blurred the line for me was the father/daughter relationship between JG & VG, they became incredibly close. And it became hard to separate the tangled lines. Like, I want to call VG and ask him how JG is handling the filing of the divorce papers. It just seems like a lot of the Alias people just got really close, so maybe it's all worked itself out, kinda like those groups in high school where everyone dates each other and nobody really seems to have residual hard feelings years later. MV says he's up for a reunion, and I'm game.

Lastly, as much as I feel bad for MV that JG broke his heart. She was also married and then going through a divorce when they started their heart eyes &/or fling with each other. He had to know he was playing with fire. Or at least not be surprised when he got burnt. I do think they both entered the relationship with no malicious intentions. But anyone could have predicted it was going to end badly for them. That's all my friends & I could say at the time, doesn't he know he's probably going to get hurt. It's never good to be the rebound romance, especially off a divorce that you may have unwittingly helped along. DANGER! DANGER!

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

I do think he had reached his breaking point there. So I do respect that the actors and the writers found a way to let him out of the show

Except everything I've ever read said he was forced out, not that he wanted to go.  I still resent how real life got in the way of what otherwise might have been my favorite show ever.  

 

Quote

And that's only the beginning, the sexual tension of s1, the fights of s3. The pure joy of them getting together in s2. You almost forget that she chose to start her mission because her fiancee died in

The pilot was so good too.  In one episode they got me to like the fiancee to the point where him dying really bothered me.  But by the end of the season (ok, looooong before that) I was shipping her and Vaughn hard.  I remember this almost random montage of them dressed up in punk outfits undercover and I don't even remember exactly what happened, someone bumped into her or something and he pushed a guy away on the dance floor and they keep walking and it was like the hottest/shippiest thing I'd ever seen.  Can't quite explain it.  And they had such good about to die talks.  Just the kind of dialogue I would kill for on Arrow.  Oh the FEELS!

Edited March 2, 2017 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

30 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Except everything I've ever read said he was forced out, not that he wanted to go.  I still resent how real life got in the way of what otherwise might have been my favorite show ever. 

I don't recall the specifics.... Either way, I think he was done. You could right. I heard those stories too. The real life actually probably helped me, because I could blame the break-up on it. Same way I can blame breaking Mindy & Danny on Mindy Project because Chris Messina reducing his hours. It doesn't make me happy, because I love those couples (on different levels of course), but it's not contrived bullshit for plot or stall like a lot of other shows. It was making the sad reality work into the fantasy. I also wonder if Alias had gone on for more seasons and I never got my reunion, if I would have been more upset. I love Alias, but I do wonder if s5 was the perfect timing to end it all things considered. I loved it, but it never got that rusty feeling or imploded on itself like Castle.

Quote

The pilot was so good too.  In one episode they got me to like the fiancee to the point where him dying really bothered me.  But by the end of the season (ok, looooong before that) I was shipping her and Vaughn hard.  I remember this almost random montage of them dressed up in punk outfits undercover and I don't even remember exactly what happened, someone bumped into her or something and he pushed a guy away and it was like the hottest thing I'd ever seen.  Can't quite explain it.  And they had such good about to die talks.  Just the kind of dialogue I would kill for on Arrow.  Oh the FEELS!

OOH, I loved the Pilot!! Danny just broke my heart. And Jack so cold. And her changing the answering machine which I think was a few episodes in. Tears.

I remember that episode. S1 finale eps. That look he gave & her giggle. If you didn't ship them before, you had to after that. Also that Blue wig slayed, and that is saying a lot on a show of fabulous wigs. But then the running fail :(

Remember their cage, where they would chat. I loved them together s2b, but I did miss that cage. Or their random meet-ups. Joey's Pizza.

The dialogue was phenomenal. If Arrow could manage to muster a 10th of what Alias delivered, I don't think I would be this disengaged & disappointed with the show. I don't really get how Arrow has fumbled it so badly, they had the mojo in s 1/2. Alias never lost it, even in the Lauren and the newbie years.

Edited March 2, 2017 by kismet

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

Alias never lost it, even in the Lauren and the newbie years.

I was probably one of the few that liked the newbie year, haha. But ugh, the Lauren year. When the show spent half the season trying to convince us she wasn't eeeeeevil, even though everyone knew she totally was. And Syd hooked up with Will! Uggggh.

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

And Syd hooked up with Will! Uggggh.

Ah Will.  Back when I liked Bradley Cooper.  

[Bort]

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I was probably one of the few that liked the newbie year, haha. 

I loved the season 5 newbie year. They did a good job casting for people to do the heavy lifting while Garner was pregnant. Rachel Nichols! Amy Acker! Actually, I remember an interview Amy Acker gave once about her audition for Alias -- she was on a break from filming during the last season of Angel and in her full Illyria costume.

[kismet]

I did like the Newbie year, there were some stumbles but overall I liked it. Casting was good. I actually think it was the first time I ever was exposed to Amy Acker. I even got misty eyed when Baltazar Getty's character sacrificed himself. I mean they could heroically kill the entire Newbie TA, and I'm not sure I would blink an eye.

And minority opinion, I did actually like the Will hook-up I think it made sense where they were in their lives. I know I would not have been on board with an actual relationship. But I think a night of passion seemed overdue. Will always loved Sydney - so I get it, especially considering how vulnerable they had both become.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, kismet said:

I did like the Newbie year, there were some stumbles but overall I liked it. Casting was good. I actually think it was the first time I ever was exposed to Amy Acker. I even got misty eyed when Baltazar Getty's character sacrificed himself. I mean they could heroically kill the entire Newbie TA, and I'm not sure I would blink an eye.

And minority opinion, I did actually like the Will hook-up I think it made sense where they were in their lives. I know I would not have been on board with an actual relationship. But I think a night of passion seemed overdue. Will always loved Sydney - so I get it, especially considering how vulnerable they had both become.

I've only watched the season five episodes with Vaughn in them but I did buy the DVD and my friend told me the newbies were good.

I didn't mind her hook up with Will.  It made sense for when it happened and it gave Will the closure he needed and gave me a scene later where Sydney told Vaughn and he looked like he wanted to throw up even though he was still officially married.  It hurts so good.  

[Mellowyellow]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I've only watched the season five episodes with Vaughn in them but I did buy the DVD and my friend told me the newbies were good.

I didn't mind her hook up with Will.  It made sense for when it happened and it gave Will the closure he needed and gave me a scene later where Sydney told Vaughn and he looked like he wanted to throw up even though he was still officially married.  It hurts so good.  

So it is possible to write decent ship stalls....if you actually know how to write!

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

So it is possible to write decent ship stalls....if you actually know how to write!

If it makes you feel better, plenty of fans were losing their minds over the stall since at first they tried to push in the interviews that she (the wife) really was a good person.  Still not sure if they were lying or if they pivoted to make the fans happy.  Don't care.  It made me happy.  Lol.  

[LeighAn]

I will never ever forgive the Mindy Project writers for character assassinating Danny and Danny/Mindy. They rest in a special place in hell along with the That 70 show writers for ruining Hyde and Jackie. 

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I will never ever forgive the Mindy Project writers for character assassinating Danny and Danny/Mindy. They rest in a special place in hell along with the That 70 show writers for ruining Hyde and Jackie. 

La,la,lalalalalalal.  It never happened.  You can't make me believe otherwise!!!

[kismet]

I have forgiven The Mindy Project Writers, but I think it definitely helped to binge it. There was no time to stay angry, because I knew Danny would be back in a few hours. Otherwise those weeks would have been horrible. And I just blame Chris Messina, who honestly just wants more. And since he is so talented, I can understand wanting to do more than a sitcom. If that was not the case, and TMP were just evolving the couple - I would be pissed.

I wasn't a huge fan of her relationship with the new Southern MD. But I just blame that on TMP falling on bad habits of needing Mindy to have romantic workplace drama. Hopefully it self-resolves in the next season.

I did love that there were so many returning faves, from the brothers, Adam Pally & Ander Holms.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

If it makes you feel better, plenty of fans were losing their minds over the stall since at first they tried to push in the interviews that she (the wife) really was a good person.  Still not sure if they were lying or if they pivoted to make the fans happy.  Don't care.  It made me happy.  Lol.  

I didn't read the interviews. But at least with Lauren you knew she had an agenda. Whether it was to prove she was the best intra-govt official or some shady ass person, everyone knew she had a plan. So if I had read the interviews, I would have called bullshit on her being good, but still I knew something was going to happen with Lauren that was about Lauren. That is not the case with Susan, she is just a walking plot point, no plan, no agenda, nothing. At this point Promethus  could have kidnapped OQ's blow-up doll and that would provide the same dramatic effect. And yet as I type that I feel bad, because Susan is supposed to represent a human being and the writers have reduced her to nothing that I should feel something that she may be killed next episode, instead I feel guilt that I feel nothing.

[Bort]

19 hours ago, kismet said:

I did like the Newbie year, there were some stumbles but overall I liked it. Casting was good. I actually think it was the first time I ever was exposed to Amy Acker.

I watched Angel, so I was familiar with Acker, who was definitely playing a different character on Alias than she (mostly) played on Angel. And I had actually been previously familiar with Rachel Nichols as well. She had just come off a FOX show I had watched called The Inside that had gotten cancelled. I had thought she was really good in it and would have followed her to her next project if said next project hadn't ended up being Alias, a show I already watched. I did tune in to see her in Continuum, which was also awesome.

[Mellowyellow]

Oh hubby and I loved Continuum! That was an awesome show!

Funny because we rolled our eyes so much at Rachel Nichols character on Criminal Minds.

[Bort]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Oh hubby and I loved Continuum! That was an awesome show!

Funny because we rolled our eyes so much at Rachel Nichols character on Criminal Minds.

Yeah, her Criminal Minds character was ill-conceived at best. I still watched her run on it, though. 

[Mellowyellow]

I just found that pink Felicity dress I'm obsessed with! It ain't cheap though! Decisions, decisions 

[kismet]

On 3/3/2017 at 5:47 AM, LeighAn said:

I will never ever forgive the Mindy Project writers for character assassinating Danny and Danny/Mindy.

I hated what they did to Danny. But for me it wasn't character assassination of Danny. It was just the worst possible version of him from s1. I could see him becoming that ultra conservative and regressive, if emotionally tweaked the wrong way. It's hard to say what really did it, the writers were pretty vague on it but it could have been the stress of fatherhood or his father dying. I would have preferred he had volunteered to stay home with Leo, and let Mindy go to work. But then we would have wanted to see cute family shots of them at home which might have been logistically challenging with Chris Messina's limited availability. I didn't want it to happen, but I don't think it was completely out of nowhere for his character.

I do think they did significant damage to Danny/Mindy as a couple, because they had been building to D/M make each other better versions of themselves. And while I did see Mindy maintaining positive motion and direction, Danny took a real nose dive. Then again, Danny had come from a failed marriage, and broken childhood, so him not doing great in a couple does not surprise me. So the premise of the coupling started t fall away. It also made me sad, because it felt very similar to the mean prediction Danny told Mindy in s1 that she was getting old and would wind up alone. I can't remember if that included a kid or not, but I remember it being very harsh, so to see her in that reality was very unpleasant. Ultimately, I don't hate the writers for what they did. I wish they hadn't done it. I'm certainly not a fan of their choices. But I do see them as realistic, even though the episodes were painful and hard to get through as someone who loved Danny & Mindy together.

And as much as I enjoy most of the supporting characters, they are not fleshed out enough to carry the major plot line. So if we push D&M to the backburner as a happy couple, what does the show become about? It's not a workplace drama. It's not a family/friends sitcom. There are no supporting characters I really want to watch go through the dating blunders that Mindy went through in previous seasons. They have had arcs, but they have been very hollow. I feel like I know more about the recurring guest stars, then I do the actually supporting cast. So perhaps the writers were limited in how they were able to write a show without the constant onscreen tete-a-tete of Mindy & Danny. Their tension has been fueling the show since s1. All the other characters orbit around them. It has an ensemble cast, but it is not an ensemble show. They started writing away from the ensemble in s2. Although I do give them props in s4 for letting Mindy have female friends outside of work. For letting the supporting cast have relationships and long term arcs. But again the majority went to the new guest people like the Southern Doc and then they resorted to linking him back to Mindy.

[MaisyDaisy]

Ok @Mellowyellow, this is what happened re that certain blogger.

i don't know if you have a tumblr? There can sometimes be a real high school mean girls clique in the Olicity fandom there. There are a few blogs that have heaps of followers and I have seen people pushed out and attacked for simply disagreeing with a popular blog.

That particular person we are talking about has been jumping on other peoples meta/posts for a while now, being pretty passive aggressive, saying 'I am not trying to police fandom' then of course straight up policing fandom. She has posted stuff shaming people for being critical of Olicity (the direction/writing of) she made posts about people not being 'real' Olicity fans, the criteria of course being those not toeing the Olicity positivity line. One post likened people angry at the shows direction and questioning if Olicity will happen to being just as bad a LL stans.

Then she called out a particular blogger. That blogger called her out. People had been low down calling her out for a while, but it blew up, and the section of the fandom that had been the target of her ire responded. Unfortunately for her, she pissed of an intellectual part of the fandom. I don't think anyone was as rude as she had been, but they were very articulate.

She had been dishing it out for a while, but when it got returned, she made like she was a victim of a toxic fandom and flounced. All her followers then started posting shaming stuff about how horrible it all was, ignoring of course that she had instigated the whole thing.

[BkWurm1]

Yikes.  Can we request Arrow does a very special episode on anger management?  And soon?

[Mellowyellow]

oooh Thanks for that @MaisyDaisy 

I don't have Tumblr or Twitter and struggle to work out how it works (I'm an oldish fart) but I am incredibly nosey so thank you for the goss!

Every time I click on tumblr I see lots of moving pictures. And then I get confused and stop after a while! I can only navigate the newest post on the Jbuffy site! And after that it confuses me! Felicity would not be my friend! 

[MaisyDaisy]

No worries :)

If you find yourself wanting to dip your toes and need help just let me know.

Tumblr is much easier to navigate once you have an account. But it does seem to create a time vortex and what feels like 5 mins is actually 5 hours, it's easy to get sucked in.

You do find interesting things though. I actually started watching Arrow because so many of the people that I followed in other fandoms posted so much Olicity and I became intruiged. 

I have found lots of other interesting movies, tv shows, books fanfic etc via tumblr. But it's a bit of a crazy place.

[arjumand]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yikes.  Can we request Arrow does a very special episode on anger management?  And soon?

Heh. How about a very very special episode about not getting overly invested in fictional characters who are still actively being written?

I'm so oblivious - I actually am on tumblr, and I had no idea this was going on. To be fair, I don't follow certain bnf Olicity bloggers anymore, I turned off tumblr's recommended blogs/posts feature after being confronted with a truly horrifying image (out of fricking nowhere), I only follow theolicitylibrary and that's gonna end any day now.

1 hour ago, MaisyDaisy said:

I have found lots of other interesting movies, tv shows, books fanfic etc via tumblr. But it's a bit of a crazy place.

There is a lot of great stuff on tumblr, and I'm pretty sure it's what's leading a lot of people to my fic (sometimes I get kudos out of nowhere, for fics which have been complete for a year or so). But the nesting and reblogging is so hard to follow for me. I'm an old, I prefer forums like this one!

[bijoux]

What's bnf?

[arjumand]

16 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What's bnf?

From wikipedia I got this (it was easier than trying to define it!): Big Name Fan (BNF) is a member of a fandom who is particularly well-known and celebrated for their writings in fanzines, semi-professional magazines and (more recently) blogs; or for other contributions such as art and (in some communities) fanfiction.

It used to be mainly for Harry Potter and such - I use it as shorthand for the writers in Arrow fandom, for example, who have hundreds of followers, their every post is obsessively reblogged, etc.

[Mellowyellow]

@MaisyDaisy omg I just noticed our icons for this forum are both daisies except yours is real and mine is made of diamonds  (I do love a fancy yellow diamond).

[MaisyDaisy]

37 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

@MaisyDaisy omg I just noticed our icons for this forum are both daisies except yours is real and mine is made of diamonds  (I do love a fancy yellow diamond).

Awww samesies, your Australian too aren't you?

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Awww samesies, your Australian too aren't you?

Yes!!!! Omg you're Aussie????