The Picktatorship Thread: Who Should Actually Be in Charge?

[CletusMusashi]

Rick is a great fighter. He cares about people. And he's willing to take charge and give orders. And he often has ideas. Some are actually good. Most... are not so good. So should someone else be running things maybe?

 

Daryl doesn't want the gig. Also, he tends not to do well against people who do want it. He can lead a small group to safety quite confidently under the right circumstances, but politics is not his thing. When it's "do or don't do," Daryl is a fucking god. But when social expectations get complicated, his self esteem issues cripple him.

 

Carl is stupid. And his hat smells like pudding.

 

Michonne is smart, wise, tough, and charismatic, but probably doesn't want the gig any more than Daryl does. Or, for a better comparison, any more than post-farm Herschel did. It didn't matter that Rick has been wrong a zillion more times than Herschel. Herschel was wrong about The Barn, and just never regained his mojo after that, which was a big part of why he was such a strong supporter of the "Anyone But Me!" party. I fear that MIchonne has similar issues, and Rick would end up being in charge again.

 

Glenn has very little resistance to peer pressure. He'll fight to go find Maggie, but not to explain the cons of sending a live human down a well to draw out a zombie. So they can drink zombie water. However, he is very smart...

 

Maggie isn't a bad option. I think she'd accept the responsibility if she had to, and she wouldn't crumple to stupid people as easily as Glenn. Plus, if there was an angle to the argument that she missed, she would still have constant access to Glenn's thoughts. You know, if they could stop making googly eyes at each other for ten seconds.

 

My own vote is for Carol. First of all, she is willing to make the hard decisions, which is pretty much the only claim Rick has to the job. Secondly, she is willing to pretty much destroy her own soul for the good of the group. Without dragging them along. Some of Churchill's most important decisions would never have gone over if voted on publicly, and he knew it, so he did what his country needed, quietly, and carried the weight of it himself. Has she made mistakes? Of course. Horrible crippling marriage? Well, yeah, but at least it wasn't to Lori. Losing track of her kid? That happens all the time. It's not Carol's fault that Sophia wasn't wearing a big stupid hat that magically bestowed immortality. The killing of Karen and David? Either it was right, and she got exiled for it, or it was wrong, and Rick let her get away with murder, or it was somewhere in the horribly grey area that only Carol is suited to lead. Not realizing how psycho Lizzie was? Nobody caught that! And when it did become apparent, Carol was the one who stepped up and shot Old Yeller.

 

So who would you vote for? Bob? Sascha? Gareth? The only rule for this discussion is that once they die on the show they're no longer an option. Otherwise every single one of our posts is just gonna be "Herschel, Herschel, Herschel..."

Edited October 8, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

Great topic.

I would add that, IMO, Michonne is disqualified because she has RDD-- reverse Daryl disease. She is socially inept in the opposite way to Dixon; he retreats into a shell but she puts on her Tasmanian Devil Face. A group leader shouldn't kiss ass, but you do need a certain amount of ability to politic and win those hearts and minds. Michonne could have the greatest idea in the world, but as Andrea once said to Shane (for similar reasons): "You need to work on your presentation."

 

Sasha has a smallish temper, but it goes off easily. Like a chihuahua that barks every time a squirrel farts in a tree, Sasha dilutes her stature by going straight to Defcon 1 over nothing.

 

Bob-- not until we learn what was in the shoebox. And do you really want to be led by the guy who's always the only one left alive? I mean that's always been one of my problems with Rick Grimes: he's done a few things that scent of Taking Care Of Number One But The Rest Of You Might Get Thrown Under The Bus.

 

Gareth? Lateral move. He's just Rick with kale chips.

 

I notice you didn't even suggest Abraham. You never let me down CM!

 

I like Maggie except she doesn't have a spark of creativity; Glenn does and she supplies the spine/balls he needs. But too much navel-gazing.

 

Carol

We know her strengths.

We know the issue people have with her. (Well, the Karvid issue. If you hate her because of some Daryl fanwank you're on the wrong thread.)

We know quite a few people feel (and have their right to their opinion) that it's different than the several dozen group members who've died by Rick's decisions because he didn't actually get their blood on his hands. (Rick is my nomination for Mark Wahlberg of the Apocalypse--fun to look at, but you do understand there's actual evidence that he's nuts.)

Glenn talked about rescuing people, and how he changed his feelings on that ----"...now there's nobody's life I wouldn't trade for one of ours."

When Glenn says it, no one complains; it's heartwarming and loyal.

What do you think he means by trade?

When the 4 on a run get chased by a herd and see the little cabin, they just bust in. The owner confronts them, and Michonne kills him.

Did the guy have a right to aim a shotgun in self defense against armed home invaders?

(Who also led about 2 dozen walkers to his home) (And don't say the mountain man was crazy--yeah and the others aren't?)

Did Michonne have a right to kill him?

If 4 armed strangers being pursued by some other violent, much larger gang, break in your house while you're sleeping and you have a weapon in the house for self defense...do the intruders have a right to kill you in their self-defense?

When Michonne did it, well, you know...

 

Carol did not do a great thing. It was terrible. But not more terrible than how a lot of other people died because of people ignoring reason or planning or common sense or just freakin consulting others about it first.

I predict Rick will not just forgive but tell Carol he now understands totally and has a new point of view. It will always be an ugly incident. But glass houses and all.

[2KllMckngBrd]

It has to be Carol. I don't want it to be, but she's the only 1 we have seen become more and more centered. Like it or not, to save the tribe, she is very capable of employing a scorched earth policy towards outsiders, and insiders if necessary. She is a big picture gal, whereas Rick, whom I love, is a my family, then who I like today, then everyone else, guy. He will do what is best for self, and Carl (and Judith when he realizes she's alive), first, period. If that happens to be best for the group then bonus points.

 

But that pit bull Sasha should be her second. Carol's consigliore (sp?). They would balance each other out.

 

If Michonne could ever get over what she perceives as her own failure, she would also be golden. The guilt cloud she's living under is similar to the storm that used to follow Carol. Michonne believes that if she had only realized what pieces of crap her husband, and his best friend were, her son would still be alive. Woulda, coulda, shoulda's in the zombie apocalypse are very dangerous. Whether accurate or not. Carol shook her demons. And I think, after the events of the season finale, Michonne may be beginning to shake hers.

[Emily Thrace]

Carol is wrong on multiple levels IMO'

1) she failedf to grasp the basic concept of quarantine. Sorry but the worst part of killing Karvid for me was how utterly moronic it was.

2) She has not real people skills or charisma. When she was with Rick and he was the only one who knew what she done she was still antagonizing him, most of the time. Plus that was a big part of why she did it secretly she didn't think anyone would listen to her. I also don't think shes really wrong about that. Given what shes done trust is going to be hard for a lot of the others for a while.
 

 

It has to be Carol. I don't want it to be, but she's the only 1 we have seen become more and more centered. Like it or not, to save the tribe, she is very capable of employing a scorched earth policy towards outsiders, and insiders if necessary. She is a big picture gal, whereas Rick, whom I love, is a my family, then who I like today, then everyone else, guy. He will do what is best for self, and Carl (and Judith when he realizes she's alive), first, period. If that happens to be best for the group then bonus points.

Carol is the one who was willing to sacrifice two of their own, while Rick didn't want to hand over Michonne who he barely knew.

 

I really so no evidence Carol has any real leadership skills. She not empathetic or inspiiring or good with people. She's no strategist her one real decision was epically bad. Carol has the same issue Shane did really she has lots of great ideas but she has no idea how to make people hear her..

 

I actually think Rick is  good leader he has faults sure but he knows his people and how to get them to work together effectively. Rick doesn't need to be a good strategist he know Glenn can do that and he knows how to the best out of Glenn. He just needs to trust himself which is what season 4 was about for him.

[CletusMusashi]

Rick actually wavered all over the place about whether to hand over Michonne or not. Which was where he jumped the shark for me. Morality of "Individual versus group" aside, everyone knew better than to trust the Governor. Except Rick. Ultimately, he set it up for Merle, of all people, to make the decision. And then? He thought inviting the Governor to move in with them was a feasible idea. Rick's mood swings have a tendency to make him desperate. Which makes him naive. Which makes him dangerous.

Edited October 5, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

Rick certainly wanted to hand Michonne over more than Herschel, who told Rick No, it's wrong and Rick you're making a mistake; or Daryl who said he agreed with Herschel "It ain't us, man"

I think that it was most frightening (IMHO) because Rick did the same thing he did with Randall,

Can't decide,get told by most respected teammates don't, ignores them, does it anyway, then changes mind, then changes again, then changes back.

When Roosevelt talked about D-Day, he knew most of "his boys" would die that day. Lincoln went through the same thing in the Civil War; but Rick wants to be bad-ass and good guy, and he gets overtaken by events because a real leader in the worst of times accepts he has to pull the trigger and take the consequences if he's wrong. You can't be more concerned about being liked than being the Sin-Eater. It goes with the job.

As far as antagonizing Rick in their last time together, I read it differently. To me it was the ultimate irony that Rick kept giving her the ol' fish-eye for the way she was not being all warm and fuzzy with the fruit people, or not beating her breast in shame to get him to change his mind. Does he not remember how he went nuts and threw Tyreese and Sasha etc out and almost strangled Glenn etc. but everybody gave him his space and forgave even though he never went on a Mea Culpa tour.

But she says we have to go and he gives this look of disgust like she's capable of driving past someone begging for help and just stopping on the way back to pick some goodies off the victim's remains ooops barely knew that guy either did ya Rick?

I thought she was good with people, all the kids, Beth, Daryl of course, the kids parents, Axel,Herschel, and many times Rick--I loved the scene after Daryl found her and Herschel calls Rick up "to see somethin" and Rick's reaction when he squeezes Carol.

If she hadn't put that grenade in her bag they'd all been dead 3 years ago. She didn't do that to be warm and fuzzy; and it was a secret, and it was good for Rick's family that she was under the same roof then.

 

BTW, anyone in a prison hide-out or other collective shelter, who is a grown adult, has a personal responsibility to remove themselves from others, from the quarters, the shared bathrooms, eating areas everything and leave a note or something about being unwell. It's not old-days-gone-by-rules. Don't lie and say you got allergies or a tickle in your throat or whatev. Personal responsibility lessens the need for other people to police you.

[kj4ever]

I think we are going to see a whole new type of leader out of Rick for season 5 and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

 

Carol as a leader?  No, just no.  I understand the issues she has with children because of what happened to her daughter (while she did laundry and cleaned while everyone else looked for her *big ass side-eye*) but it was wrong to teach those kids how to kill without telling their parents.  It wasn't until a rewatch that I realized one of the children that Carol was leading away during the Patrick attack was crying and said "I forgot everything you taught me."  Maybe if it wasn't a big honking secret that they were being taught the parents could have emotionally prepared the children for what they might have to do.  Do these children need to be taught?  Yes.  Should she have just taken it upon herself to do it and not tell their parents?  Hell no.

 

It's sneaky.  Just like killing David and Karen because she didn't think other people would agree was sneaky.  They had decided to have the council, so if that's what she thought needed to be done she should have spoke up about it.

[Emily Thrace]

I thought she was good with people, all the kids, Beth, Daryl of course, the kids parents, Axel,Herschel, and many times Rick--I loved the scene after Daryl found her and Herschel calls Rick up "to see somethin" and Rick's reaction when he squeezes Carol.

These are cases of Carol reacting to someone though not getting someone to react to her which is what a leader does.. A leader leads they speak and some listens and does what they say Carol hasn't really shown that. One thing Rick rarely get credit for is how good he is at keeping his people motivated and working together.A really great example of this is when they take the prison and he talks Carol into going up into the tower with Darryl. Rick's only really been harsh once and even then he didn't resort to threats he just said you can leave if you want. Good leaders are manipulative and great one do it without people even realizing. Carol tries to be manipulative but she never really succeeds.

 

I think that it was most frightening (IMHO) because Rick did the same thing he did with Randall,

Can't decide,get told by most respected teammates don't, ignores them, does it anyway, then changes mind, then changes again, then changes back.

 

I think the fact that Rick stuggles with moral choices is  a good thing IMO. I would be worried if Rick tossed people away easily that's someone like the governor does. "I will do anything to protect my people" turns into torture and murder way too easily if you let it.  I would trust Rick not to lead me into something where I'm the asshole I'm not sure I could say the same of Carol.

 

Besides its not like Rick dithers when the pressure's on in fact in some ways he works better. Cutting of Herschel's leg was a great example of Rick making a quick decision that paid off. I don't think Rick actually has a problem making decisions he just know to take his time with the right ones.

[Irishmaple]

I don't have huge issues with Rick as leader.  I think he's grown very reluctantly into the role, going from the guy who assumed leadership because of his law enforcement experience then apparently forgot everything he knew and got pulled in various directions, then went all 'my way or the highway', then stepped aside to be a dad and a farmer, then picked it all up again because the prison couldn't actually function without his leadership.  There was a council, but it was undermined by Carol's lack of faith in it.  People were accepted in or not based on Rick's three questions, the method adopted by everyone.  He went on runs, he defended the prison, he tried to negotiate with crazyass Philip, he kept people going.  That's his main strength as leader, I think.  People believe in him.

 

I think offering to share the prison with the Woodbury people was one of Rick's finest hours.  He put his people first.  He put the Woodbury people first.  He looked at people who had tried to kill him and people he cared about, and he was willing to set that aside so that no-one else had to die.  He hated Philip and he was still willing to find a way to incorporate Woodbury into the prison because the people would be stronger together.  I still find it hard to believe that not one single person in Philip's group went 'okay, let's do that' when Rick made the offer. 

 

As of the final scene of last season, I think all bets are off.  Rick's in the zone now.

 

My second choice would be a co-leadership of Glenn and Maggie.  He's smart, creative and gutsy as hell.  She's pragmatic, driven, brave and loyal.  They understand each other, they know the group, they're not afraid of newcomers and find a way to work with who and what they have to work with.  I have a tendency to approach crises, asking myself What Would Maggie Do?  And then realizing that hitting someone on the head with a baseball bat will create more problems than it solves.  Still, it's bound to solve a problem sooner or later!    

Edited October 5, 2014 by Irishmaple

[Pete Martell]

 

My own vote is for Carol. First of all, she is willing to make the hard decisions, which is pretty much the only claim Rick has to the job. Secondly, she is willing to pretty much destroy her own soul for the good of the group. Without dragging them along. Some of Churchill's most important decisions would never have gone over if voted on publicly, and he knew it, so he did what his country needed, quietly, and carried the weight of it himself. Has she made mistakes? Of course. Horrible crippling marriage? Well, yeah, but at least it wasn't to Lori. Losing track of her kid? That happens all the time. It's not Carol's fault that Sophia wasn't wearing a big stupid hat that magically bestowed immortality. The killing of Karen and David? Either it was right, and she got exiled for it, or it was wrong, and Rick let her get away with murder, or it was somewhere in the horribly grey area that only Carol is suited to lead. Not realizing how psycho Lizzie was? Nobody caught that! And when it did become apparent, Carol was the one who stepped up and shot Old Yeller.

 

When you leave burning corpses out for everyone to find and stay quiet while two men start beating the tar out of each other (for all she knew one or both of them could have died), you're dragging people in. Tyreese came close to suicide as a result of what he stumbled upon. She made a tough choice but the fallout wasn't just on her shoulders, and the way she handled it only added to the paranoia and instability of the group.

 

Carol has repeatedly tried to make decisions based on being strong and making the tough choice, but ultimately that's not the whole process. In many ways she became like Rick, in hiding things (as Rick did on the farm) and watching the consequences unfold. 

 

I think Carol realizing that Lizzie's problems weren't going to be dealt with by being "strong," killing her, and confessing the truth about Karen and David to Tyreese was the first big step forward for Carol in no longer living defensively, but she has a ways to go.

 

I don't think the group needs one leader. I don't think one person can take on that burden. They never could. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Pete Martell

[CletusMusashi]

Oh, I'm vastly in favor of more than one person being in charge. It just doesn't tend to work out that way. A council is great for deciding how much electricity should go toward which thing, or which exercise yard they should use for growing rutabagas. But on big, immediate decisions there has to be one top person. Call it a Governor, a President, a Prime MInister, or a 'Tator, when the shit hits the fan all democracies have one government official who is more equal than the others.

 

Rick is good at small, immediate decisions. Dodging around the house to avoid Joe's gang. Leaving them a new zombie as a surprise gift. Biting Joe to death. Chopping off Herschel's leg. Things that, once you do them, they're done. This makes him excel in short-term small group survival situations, because fortune favors the bold.

 

Things that there's time to think about, like "Should we kill Randall, invite him into the group, or just screw with his head every five seconds until there is no way in hell we would ever be able to trust him?" are a problem. Or things that look, to the sufficiently desperate, like they fall into the "do it and it's done," category, but actually are more complicated than that. 

 

"Well, we could just move out of this prison that has zombies pushing down the fence every day. But that would involve a lot of thinking about where to go next. Listen, can't we just let bygones be bygones? You played a little prank on my friends where you kidnapped and tortured them, threw Glenn to a zombie, threatened to rape Maggie, and killed Andrea. But MIchonne did kill your favorite zombie and she did injure you when you were trying to kill her, so let's just say mistakes were made all around. Let's be roomies!"

 

Yeah, that couldn't possibly end badly. Right, Martinez? Martinez?

Weird. For some reason Martinez is not answering me.

 

Carol knows that even friends lie to each other. If she were talking to the Governor, she'd have signaled the snipers to blow off that stupid tank gunner's head the second he decided to open the hatch and stand there like an idiot. After that, the Gov is an easy second shot for anybody. Of course, so is Carol, but in that case maybe either the Prison Gang still win the battle, free the hostages, and elect a new 'tator, or the surviving members of Woodbury 2.0 retreat a little, but probably have no desire to randomly decapitate hostages, so either way, we'd probably have ended with Herschel as 'tator. Even though I can't technically vote for him now because he's dead, we all know who we really want.

 

What has Carol actually done? Shit, haven't you ever wondered what the hell Judith was eating all that time with Tyreese? There's no fresh infant formula lying around in the woods... or on railroad tracks! And they sure as hell weren't doing runs into town, with Lizzie calling out for every zombie around to come and get its hair brushed! Carol was obviously racing around like a super-ninja Batmantaclaus, running formula to Tyreese, injecting antibiotics into comatose Rick, washing zombie guts out of Michonne's hair, checking Abraham for breast cancer, and stabbing the 800 zombies that would otherwise have devoured Daryl and Beth's drunken asses wandering around in the middle of the night... I ask you, if that is not dedication to the group, then what is?

 

This post has been approved by The Georgia 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

By the way, am I the only one who had no idea at all what her last name was?

Edited October 7, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

I think if Carol was leader for the final Woodbury battle, she would have had someone with a weapon with a silencer--maybe herself--shoot the hostages; Michonne has already handled being shot in the thigh and Herschel knows it and he survived a leg amputation which is actually worse. A leg or shoulder hit would make them spurt blood, fall over...and in the 5 seconds the Governor was slack-jawed, holler PULL! and everyone take advantage of the Woodburians confusion to mow them down.

 

I remember her advice/plan to Andrea, which only failed because Andrea was a mook, and I love the deleted scene of Carol with Merle and His Lunch Tray! Merle took her seriously, and Daryl eavesdropping in the corridor knew she'd do it and he didn't come to Merle's defense. Merle would have sneered at Rick, and Daryl would have had a bone to pick with the sheriff.

Every bad guy, from Merle to the Governor to Randall to DaveAndFatTony to Joe to Shane can sense Ricks rubber spine.

Speak of the fallout being on other people's shoulders too, start counting how many people have paid the price for Rick's "tough decisions"?

Leave Merle behind and change your mind and take all the strongest men to go get him? 14 people died at the quarry, and thus began the things Rick did for the group that cost other lives but not his.

[Pete Martell]

Between the Governor's complete coldness, the tank, the Woodbury people who were trained soldiers (although they were very inept soldiers...), and the difficulty of being able to find a good place for a crack shot when you're in a heavily damaged prison and you're weak and exhausted from taking care of sick and dying people, I think no solution would have been easy, but then I tend to feel like most of the problems they've faced have had no good solution.

[kj4ever]

I think if we are talking about things Rick did with Randall then we need to think of what Carol did back then too.  Namely not look for her own lost child and refuse to make any decision in the whole Randall episode.

 

Before "A" I don't think I would have thought Rick was a good leader, but after "A"?  I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to get in his way!

[ghoulina]

I think the fact that Rick stuggles with moral choices is  a good thing IMO. I would be worried if Rick tossed people away easily that's someone like the governor does. "I will do anything to protect my people" turns into torture and murder way too easily if you let it.  I would trust Rick not to lead me into something where I'm the asshole I'm not sure I could say the same of Carol.

Besides its not like Rick dithers when the pressure's on in fact in some ways he works better. Cutting of Herschel's leg was a great example of Rick making a quick decision that paid off. I don't think Rick actually has a problem making decisions he just know to take his time with the right ones.

 

You and I have our disagreements about Carol, but I am totally with you on Rick. No one is perfect, and I also like the fact that Rick isn't always 100% certain. He has a heart. He loves his people.If you were in his group, you could rest assured that he would take you into consideration. You wouldn't be just a "number", there to fill some slot (cook, baby watcher, going on runs, etc.)

 

He learns and he grows. The Michonne thing upset me at first, but even she understood that he had to THINK about it. Rick doubts himself a lot, and I appreciate that. Cockiness can get you killed. But in the heat of the moment, he is ON. There has never been a bigger badass who badassed than when Rick took a chunk out of Joe's throat to save his kid and Michonne. 

 

At the end of the day, I still haven't seen anyone else I think would be as good of a leader as Rick. Many others have great qualities, but they almost work best in tandem with each other. Rick is flawed, but I think he has done better for his group than any other leader we've seen on this show.

 

Oh, I'm vastly in favor of more than one person being in charge. It just doesn't tend to work out that way. A council is great for deciding how much electricity should go toward which thing, or which exercise yard they should use for growing rutabagas. But on big, immediate decisions there has to be one top person. Call it a Governor, a President, a Prime MInister, or a 'Tator, when the shit hits the fan all democracies have one government official who is more equal than the others.

 

I tend to agree, and I think they should be fluid with how leadership works. In an established community, as at the prison, a council is a great idea. But they should still have one definitive leader (aka Rick) to rely on when shit goes down. And I do think they kind of naturally fall into that. As soon as Rick grabbed pocket-watch thief, when he realized things were hinky at Terminus, everyone else immediately followed his lead. They know what's up. And no one but Shane has ever really shown resentment over Rick being the leader. 

 

Every bad guy, from Merle to the Governor to Randall to DaveAndFatTony to Joe to Shane can sense Ricks rubber spine.

 

With all due respect, I don't think Rick has a rubber spine at all. I think he has a conscious - something most of the above mentioned were sorely lacking. Sure, it isn't always easy for him to make tough decisions, because he isn't a psychopath and he actually cares about people. But I did not see Rick wavering at all with the Tony-Dave situation. I saw him as being very cautious because that situation was a powder keg. And in the end, he didn't doubt what needed to be done, he was quick on the draw, and Hershel and Glenn made it out of there alive because of him. 

[CletusMusashi]

About Sophia: Carol wasn't skilled enough yet to be an asset in searching Walker-infested woods. Going out alone, she'd have gotten killed herself and, quite possibly, slowed down Sophia as well, getting her killed. Accompanied by someone else, she'd only be a distraction, slowing down Rick or Daryl or whoever ended up having to babysit her. So she did what people in societies have always done.Division of labor. Someone had to look for Sophia, so the best people for the job did it. Meanwhile, someone had to prepare food, ensure that clean water was available, and, laugh all you want, do laundry. These people get blood and guts all over their clothing on a very regular basis. The fact that somebody does clean their clothes is why every little scratch does not become gangrenous. I'm sure Carol wanted to drop all of her useful contributions and rush out there searching day and night, but she made what was, for the cohesiveness and ultimate survival of the group, the objectively correct decision. This doesn't make me think "irresponsible." Quite the contrary. It makes me think she'd be very hard to control by taking hostages.

About the watch thief: Rick played his hand boldly and immediately, which works great in a hit and run battle. However, in Terminus, more subtlety was called for. Tell the others what you're thinking, start looking at ways to sneak out. As it was, they could have been gunned down on the spot even more easily than they were herded into a boxcar. Because saying "Hey, look, he's a bad guy!" is not a "do it and it's done" action. Not when you're surrounded by other bad guys. What did he expect? "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids?"

This post has been approved by The Georgia 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

Edited October 8, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[ghoulina]

Absolutely agree, CletusMusashi. That is what was so annoying, and dangerous, about Andrea in the beginning. She wanted to do things she just hadn't learned how to do yet. It was admirable that she wanted to learn to shoot, to get good at it, and help defend the camp. But she was far too impatient, and often seemed to want to fill that role out of a desire to prove something more than the desire to be part of a cohesive unit. That's what almost got Daryl killed. 

 

Just as it would be stupid to make Rick or Daryl sit around preparing dinner or washing the clothing, it would be stupid to send Carol out into the woods hunting for people. At that stage anyway. Not only were her physical skills sorely lacking, but she was an emotional wreck. She could have fucked things up in more ways than one.

Edited October 7, 2014 by ghoulina

[mandolin]

I agree with CletusMusashi's division of labor argument, but it's not Carol's inability to look for Sophia at that point that bugged. It's her blaming everyone else for not finding her. Now, Carol seems cold to me. Too hard. And ghoulina is right about Andrea trying to do too much too soon and screwing up.

 

I'm strongly Team Rick, but I agree with the sentiment that he is a good leader because of his conscience. He isn't a one note character. He grows and changes. He doesn't always do the right thing (hey, having people screw up is part of what makes the show so good), but he usually owns it. And the man is fiercely loyal. Ricktatorship or Ricktocracy. I'm happy with either.

[2KllMckngBrd]

Yeah, that couldn't possibly end badly. Right, Martinez? Martinez?

Weird. For some reason Martinez is not answering me.

Holy Shit. I started laughing so loud the dog looked at me, and ran into the other room. Can I please eat lunch w/you tomorrow in the cafeteria? I had more to respond to in the quote bubble, but I can't stop laughing, so I'll just be mose-ying along for now.

[ghoulina]

Now, Carol seems cold to me.

 

Carol's coldness season 4 was odd to me. If it had happened RIGHT after losing Sophia, that would have made more sense. But season 3 she was light-hearted and loving. What happened betwixt season 3 and 4 to turn her heart to ice? Was it losing Axel? Maybe when T-Dog threw himself to the walkers to save her? I don't know, I'll fanwank that when they started letting people in, and there were suddenly all these kids around, she hardened herself so that she never felt loss again like she did with her daughter. But, honestly, I feel like the writers just fucked her up. I feel like they had this story they just HAD to tell, and they didn't really care if it fit Carol or not. 

 

But I do think the end of the season was fitting for her. I think she was marvelous in The Grove, and that experience hopefully will help her find that middle ground between helpless victim and take-no-prisoners Carol. 

[kj4ever]

I agree with CletusMusashi's division of labor argument, but it's not Carol's inability to look for Sophia at that point that bugged. It's her blaming everyone else for not finding her. Now, Carol seems cold to me. Too hard. And ghoulina is right about Andrea trying to do too much too soon and screwing up.

 

I'm strongly Team Rick, but I agree with the sentiment that he is a good leader because of his conscience. He isn't a one note character. He grows and changes. He doesn't always do the right thing (hey, having people screw up is part of what makes the show so good), but he usually owns it. And the man is fiercely loyal. Ricktatorship or Ricktocracy. I'm happy with either.

But Carl was equipped to go looking for her?  My point is most Mothers would move freakin' heaven and Earth to find their child.  If that was my kid being chased into the woods Lori would have got an elbow to the jaw and I would have ran after her, not wait for someone else to do it.  That's the part that really bugs me.

 

Yes, Carol seems extremely cold, and I don't think it fits.  Even though I have spent most of the series thinking she is a weak waste of space she is still one of my favorite characters as she is so interesting.  She-Ra version of Carol is not going to be interesting or real if that's what happens.  My characters don't have to be perfect for me to love them being on the show - in face the characters that have flaws are usually my favorites.

Edited October 8, 2014 by kj4ever

[mandolin]

True. Carl wasn't exactly the best one to go looking for Sophia either. At least they knew where he was when he was there though!

Edited October 8, 2014 by mandolin

[ghoulina]

The only time Carl went looking for Sophia is when they ALL went looking for her (save injured T-dog and Dale babysitting the Dale-a-bago). That next day everyone went out, but then Carl got shot and they found the farm - so Rick and Shane divvied up who they thought would best do what. I do tend to agree that if it were MY child, I'd probably be running around like a mad woman trying to find her, no matter what anyone told me. But, again, it's so hard to say when you're not in that position. Carol was definitely a different woman back then, and completely different from me. I probably would have offed myself after losing my only child. 

[kikismom]

When we were at a family reunion, my cousin Walter got lost on the way and called for someone to come figure out where he was and fetch him back.

My uncle Carl went off, but he'd had a few and called to say he hadn't found Walt yet but he upended in a ditch.

Another uncle, Dewey, went out then, but he called and said he hadn't found Carl, or Walt, but he hit a tree.

When that third call came we all looked at each other and said: "Fuck'em." and didn't answer the phone anymore.

 

If I became exasperated with Rick it's because I was raised on the Darwinian model. Survival of the fittest and devil take the hindmost.

Trying to keep one leg on either side of the fence just is seen as masturbation.

But we know how to stay alive. World War II VietNam September 11th...we stayed alive and people observant enough to tie their ass to our beltloop, and go wherever we went, got back alive too. This is not to brag like it's a fun thing; it's about shit gets real that should automatically mean facing reality. We damn sure weren't better people, we damn sure aren't smarter...we just got trained not to kid ourselves.

 

I hear a lot about Rick improving and deserving chances and learning from his mistakes. Maybe it's just me but that could be appropriate for 3 years of oil-painting class; it's a little disingenuous for murder and massacre. 

I'd keep Rick Grimes for exploratory purposes IYKWIM; but he reminds me too much of a male co-worker who's been married 5 times by the age of 26: once is a mistake anyone could make, twice is a coincidence, three times is a worrying pattern, four times is pathological and the fifth time it's you babe, it's all on you!

Edited October 8, 2014 by kikismom

[ghoulina]

I'm just curious what BIG mistakes you think Rick has made, and do you think his mistakes have outweighed his successes? 

 

To me, the only glaring mistake I can think of, that really really fucked things up, was when he didn't kill Andrew. He easily could have and didn't. And because of it, their security was compromised and they lost T-dog and Lori. But I definitely think he has had way more "triumphs" than fails. 

 

I don't think anyone ever stops making mistakes. I know I certainly don't. I keep on making them, but usually not the same ones. LOL! That's kind of how I see Rick. He is as human and flawed as the rest of us,  but I do think he learns from his mistakes. 

[CletusMusashi]

Thanks for mentioning this deleted scene. I'd never seen it before, so I looked it up online.

I think if they'd included this in Season 3, Carol's character would have felt more consistent to people.

But, of course, they wanted the big Karvid reveal to be as shocking and out of the blue as possible...

[kikismom]

I'm just curious what BIG mistakes you think Rick has made, and do you think his mistakes have outweighed his successes? 

 

To me, the only glaring mistake I can think of, that really really fucked things up, was when he didn't kill Andrew. He easily could have and didn't. And because of it, their security was compromised and they lost T-dog and Lori. But I definitely think he has had way more "triumphs" than fails. 

 

I don't think anyone ever stops making mistakes. I know I certainly don't. I keep on making them, but usually not the same ones. LOL! That's kind of how I see Rick. He is as human and flawed as the rest of us,  but I do think he learns from his mistakes. 

Making mistakes? Yeah. Making the same ones over and over, or ignoring red flags because you don't like the real and hope for the want....that's when it stops being tolerable.

And I really didn't like his flip-out at the waterfall and again at the prison. Right in front of the Greene's--who lost Patricia and Jimmy that night, (Carol had lost Sophia just before), Rick never expresses any sympathy for them but he wanted sympathy for himself even though he still had his family, but they all had to keep it together and march on.

  I didn't see why he sets the barn on fire, with him and Carl in it, no exit strategy (Hey fire will draw the walkers we're trying to evade to the barn! Where we are! And we can't get out or get down without landing right in more walkers! Good thing Jimmy saves us with the RV, too bad we didn't try saving him in return!)

I think he has had some great moments but he erases them by stuff like thinking over and over that there is some way to negotiate with the Governor?  When they are at the fence of the prison Carl and Daryl (and a lot of other armed people) don't take a shot because they are waiting on Rick. Jeez, shoot him already, so the others can shoot the Gov's people because that's what you'll end up doing anyway. Just do it while Herschel is alive, nobody's going to shoot him and Michonne since they don't have guns. He waits till Herschel gets chopped? Because he thought a psychopath he'd known about for a year that tried to kill them and was back again saying he'd kill them might accept a deal to house-share?

I could understand the adjustment problem in the first season. But everyone else is getting their own head straight and they keep having Rick get badass then revert to being a priss. It's a bit like you feel about the writers with Carol;  when they want a spectacle they write it even when it's inconsistent.  I think with Rick (and others) they switched deeds from comic characters around to throw off tv viewers..but now some characters are a complete mishmosh. (Carl was supposed to be the one who killed Ben who became Lizzie and Carol became Carl etc.)

Thanks for mentioning this deleted scene. I'd never seen it before, so I looked it up online.

I think if they'd included this in Season 3, Carol's character would have felt more consistent to people.

But, of course, they wanted the big Karvid reveal to be as shocking and out of the blue as possible...

 

Thanks for posting that; I should have realized not everyone gets the same stuff (a lot of people record off TV)

I agree, it would have made more sense; it's also just such a cool scene to see Merle get schooled! And Daryl just is like okaaaaaay mama!

Edited October 8, 2014 by kikismom

[CletusMusashi]

Trusted Shane too long? I understand, and could have respected it as a painful learning experience. 

Trusting Brillip to agree to a territorial division? Strike 2.

Trusting Brillip about the Michonne deal, so much so that when council doesn't encourage him, he sneaks to Merle and arranges it? Strike 3.

Then, he trusts Terminus enough to go into town, which is understandable enough. I mean, societies do have laws, and are going to want to search you and so forth. I'll give him a free pass on that. But then, when he has evidence that they are bad guys, he thinks simply yelling about it is going to make them.. apologize or something? Worst police work ever. Strike 4, again, just on that one central flaw.

He makes the same terrifying mistake at least once a season.

Fighting my way through a herd, or surviving a few days on the road with one person, or simply going on a supply run, I'd like to have Rick around. In an immediate kill or die situation, he's a huge asset. But as far as politics go, he's Charlie Brown, humiliatingly trying to kick that same football over and over and over again.

Edited October 14, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[ghoulina]

I didn't like the way he barked at everyone in front of the waterfall either. They had all been through a lot, and yes - it was especially traumatic to the Greenes, because they had never really experienced the walker world up until that point. But I understood why he acted that way. He had just killed his best friend, who was constantly questioning how he did things and insinuating - no, outright stating - that he wasn't good enough to keep his wife and son alive. Well, I guarantee Shane would have lost a lot more people and faster than Rick ever did. Why? Because he didn't truly give a fuck about any of them, save Lori and Carl. At any rate, I think Rick freaked a few of them out in that moment, but no one died that night. So I don't think that was a mistake that he couldn't come back from. 

 

Setting the barn on fire....yea, I'm not really sure if that was the best idea. But at that point they didn't have a lot of time to deliberate and come up with the perfect plan. They had to act and act fast. I do think creating a big focal point for the walkers was a good idea, to at least draw SOME of them away from other areas of the farm. Did he have a great exit plan for Carl and himself? No. But they were all around them anyway, so I don't really think it made a huge difference. The only person I think you could say died because of that instance was maybe Jimmy. But really, I put that on him. Why in the seven hells did Jimmy GET UP and start walking towards the door??? As soon as he heard the thump, he should stepped on it!

 

Now the issue with The Governor at the fence....yea, I just don't know. The Guv had the katana on Hershel. If Rick had shot, he could have missed. He was pretty far back. But if The Guv heard a shot fired from there, he WOULD have hacked of Hershel's head. I think he planned on doing it all along. I don't think there was any chance he was going to let either Hershel or Michonne go if he could help it. He wasn't just about taking the prison peacefully, he wanted to make Rick and all of them suffer. And I think Rick KNEW The Guv would never accept any kind of peaceable solution. I think his tactic was to try and sway the OTHER people there. He knew they weren't long-term friends of one-eye or anything. I think he thought if he could talk long enough, and say certain things, Brillip's back-up might start to doubt him. If the prison fired first, that would reinforce to Team Governor that Camp Prison really WERE the bad guys, and all hell would break loose. Of course all hell broke loose anyway. I just don't think there was any way out of that situation without casualties. Guv was too crazy and too bitter. Honestly, the biggest mistake was not devoting more time to finding this guy and killing him before he came back.  OR having scouts further out, making sure no one was approaching the prison from any angle. Watchers. Alarm bells. Something. But I don't put that on Rick, because he wasn't even in charge any more after Woodbury moved in - and I know Michonne was trying to track that bastard down. 

 

It's very interesting how different our perspectives can be. Because I don't see any of that as being stuff so terrible that Rick can't come back from it, or makes him unfit to lead. I don't really see anyone else doing better. 

Fighting my way through a herd, or surviving a few days on the road with one person, or simply going on a supply run, I'd like to have Rick around. In an immediate kill or die situation, he's a huge asset. But as far as politics go, he's Charlie Brown, humiliatingly trying to kick that same football over and over and over again.

 

That's why I agreed with your suggestion to kind of have him as the go-to leader when out on the road or shit goes down, but also have a council set up go handle daily living and what-not. 

 

But I have to disagree with your assessment of him trusting people. I don't think he ever trusted the Governor. Not at all. I think that's the very reason he was being cautious. Season 4 he definitely didn't buy a word he was saying, but as I said above - I think Rick was trying to reach the other people that came with him. 

 

And I don't think he trusted Terminus. Should they have not gone at all? Maybe. But I think they wanted to see if there other people had ended up there as well. At least Rick's group was smart enough not to waltz right in like the others. They scoped it, snuck in, and remained skeptical the entire time. He didn't just yell at them, he took the dude hostage. 

 

I think it's impossible not to make mistakes in a ZA. There are too many "what if" factors. But I think he does alright.

[ghoulina]

So I brought the whole Rick-as-a-leader thing up to my husband and we had this giant debate about it, because he definitely thinks Rick is a fuck-up as well. As we were talking, though, I realized that the ironic thing is - Rick would probably agree with him. I don't think Rick believes himself to be doing a great job, which is probably why he stepped down at the end of season 3. I really don't think he ever wanted to be in charge, it just kind of happened. And even when he was playing farmer, the others clearly wanted him back. Interesting.

[kikismom]

. I really don't think he ever wanted to be in charge, it just kind of happened. And even when he was playing farmer, the others clearly wanted him back. Interesting.

Being a troublemaker as always, I must point out that one of Rick's most annoying moments in his "waterfall tantrum" was the part when he says "I didn't ask for this"... right before he goes beyond just discouraging anyone else from relieving him of that duty, taunting any others who dare think they could be better than him to go ahead and send him a postcard,  then declares that it is not a democracy anymore--- he doesn't just want to be leader of a community giving him input he wants to be the only one with a say.

IMO he did want to be in charge.

And when he was playing farmer, Carl told him it was better to step down and let someone else lead, Daryl told him to let other people handle things, and Herschel said that it was fine for Rick to continue staying in the garden and letting others do the defense/supply runs/ etc. I'm not sure who wanted him back in charge.

[CletusMusashi]

Before the ZA, Rick was a deputy, and we saw him and Shane at work. They did not wear big stupid hats.

Strangely, one of the first things he did after the ZA was dress up as a sheriff.

Carol Peletier promises never to indulge latent bipolar delusions of authority by running around in a great big stupid hat!

This post has been approved by The Georgia 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

Edited October 9, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

It isn't all in my head :-)  !

 

http://www.wired.com/2013/11/walking-dead-recap-indifference/

 

http://whatculture.com/tv/the-walking-dead-rick-grimes-10-stupidest-mistakes-so-far.php

 

http://ethicsalarms.com/2013/03/25/walking-dead-ethics-the-worst-leader-ever/

[Emily Thrace]

What has Carol actually done? Shit, haven't you ever wondered what the hell Judith was eating all that time with Tyreese? There's no fresh infant formula lying around in the woods... or on railroad tracks! And they sure as hell weren't doing runs into town, with Lizzie calling out for every zombie around to come and get its hair brushed! Carol was obviously racing around like a super-ninja Batmantaclaus, running formula to Tyreese, injecting antibiotics into comatose Rick, washing zombie guts out of Michonne's hair, checking Abraham for breast cancer, and stabbing the 800 zombies that would otherwise have devoured Daryl and Beth's drunken asses wandering around in the middle of the night... I ask you, if that is not dedication to the group, then what is?

See this is one of the issue's i have with Carol I feel there is a major gulf between how her fans see her and what's actually shown onscreen. Carol is competent at best when it comes to killing walkers, based on what's shown onscreen. Shes a decent shot but when it comes to down to hand to hand she gets flustered and overpowered pretty quickly like we saw back at the water pump. Carol is probably never going to be MIchonne or Maggie, and that's okay.  I just think some fans have a fairly unrealistic picture of what Carol is actually capable of.

 

(Also there was formula at the house they found that's what Judith was eating so there were no formula runs)

 

Carol may not have trouble making decisions but sometimes she doesn't really think through the consequences enough. Not just with Karvid but the Andrea and the governor too. Had Andrea killed the governor, the most likely scenario Andrea is probably dead and Martinez is out for blood. Even if Martinez had wanted to make peace, not answering Andrea's murder with blood would make him look weak. Not just to Rick and Co. but to his own group. Frankly I think the group is probably lucky Andrea didn't listen to Carol on that one.

 

Carol seems to treat people as chess peieces not really taking into account things like Tyrese's feeling for Karen. That's arguaby her biggest weakness as a leader. Carol's understanding of people is somewhat shallow and she tend to project a lot of her own crap onto other's. Mosty notably Lizzie and Mika but also with Ty and even Rick to an extent. I'm honestly not sure if its that Carol really doesn't see why poeple do what they do or if she just can't get past her own crap enough to understand it. Either way its a pretty big deficit in a leader.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Emily Thrace

[Seawolff]

I think they should all take responsibility for collectively being in charge. The characters are too evolved to play "follow the leader." They have turned to Rick as the large and in charge guy many times because he does have experience with making the call in emergencies, as well as having chosen a profession that evolves authority that literally has the marching orders "to protect and serve." At this point I think they see him as the person whose lead they have followed as they adapted to this world more than as the leader. He is more of a valuable resource person than the leader.

All of our main characters have all spent last (spring) season of traveling split up and taking on some leadership tasks. I think they will operate as a group of equals or they will choose core groups within big groups if they grow, just as they did at the prison.

[JBody]

Love the TWOP-esque convos here. Two random thoughts in response to many great posts above this meager one: I am a mum and there is no freaking way I would sit on the sidelines and complain and throw guilt on people who lost my child/haven't found my child yet. Are you kidding me?! I have never handled a gun or killed any living in thing other than an insect but I would be out there asap and I would die trying. Secondly, the survival-of-the-fittest thing is BS or more accurately, totally misunderstood. A lot of what survives in any given environment comes down to dumb luck. If you are lucky and best adapted to your surroundings you will live to pass on your genes. That's it. If it were a contest about intelligence or strength or bravery or skill most of CDB would be pushing daisies.

[ghoulina]

If it were a contest about intelligence or strength or bravery or skill most of CDB would be pushing daisies.

 

HA! I agree. I think some of them are definitely still around because of their intelligence, competence, bravery. But there are many who were just in the right place at the right time, or have been under the protection of ones with the previously mentioned skills, or just have really awesome luck. In the ZA, there's slim pickings when it comes to people. You're not automatically assured to have the strongest and bravest mankind has to offer. A lot of those may have perished in the beginning, trying to save others.  So you don't really have the luxury of hunting for that "perfect" leader. You're kind of stuck with what you've got. 

[kikismom]

Love the TWOP-esque convos here. 

Secondly, the survival-of-the-fittest thing is BS or more accurately, totally misunderstood. A lot of what survives in any given environment comes down to dumb luck. If you are lucky and best adapted to your surroundings you will live to pass on your genes. That's it. If it were a contest about intelligence or strength or bravery or skill most of CDB would be pushing daisies.

As far as survival of the fittest, in my own dictionary it is not defined as intelligence or any superiority like that (as stated previously)...it is attitude.

Maybe some would call it pessimism or cynicism; but planning for the worst really is a useful attitude when the SHTF in your life. Too many people in our era have everything it takes to live but they fail because they have the attitude from living in this culture that Big Daddy In Washington is supposed to fix things (even if it's possible, anybody who waits for policy to become reality will end up in tears.) Whether it's survival in the open or survival in your own body against illness, attitude is everything.

 

Lauren Elder was in a plane crash,,on a mountainside in the Sierra Nevadas at 12,000+ ft altitude.  got her skeleton smashed-, wearing a blouse and wraparound skirt when she landed and pulled herself on all fours "a kind of sideways spider walk" through ice and knee -deep snow and 10 degree air for 20 miles and at one point had to descend a 100ft. dry waterfall....but every year people die stranded roadside overnight in their car in the winter. Those people are not stupid or unlucky, and she wasn't brilliant or having a lucky day (hardly!)....she was determined to accept no other outcome and willing to do anything no matter what to win. (She called it "animal-like will and ego---my life resume wasn't long enough yet"). Other people (who are "luckier": 1.e.they had it easier) cry and write good-bye notes to their family or last will and testaments. Fittest to survive is not being gifted, or superior, or getting a dumb-luck break. It's attitude and will.

We live in a culture/society where people are not used to really building their will to handle stuff. (Most people in our society brag of how many things they don't do.).

 

People in the third world know how to split before the shit hits the fan...just like junk-yard dogs and alley cats are the most resilient animals you'll ever meet...just like sergeants pulling newbies off the planes "poach" the boys from mountains, the rural south, or inner city.

And thus we had a character created called Daryl Dixon. :-)

 

"Luck is the residue of design"   Branch Rickey

"Chance favors only the prepared mind"   Louis Pasteur

[JBody]

You're not automatically assured to have the strongest and bravest mankind has to offer. A lot of those may have perished in the beginning, trying to save others.

 

That is EXACTLY what I think.

 

Also dig what kikismom is saying.  I have no argument with the importance of will power in surviving.  No doubt.  I am from the Great White North and our psyches from birth are geared to survival.  Say what?  It's all about the harsh environment we live in.  Freezing for 8 months out of a year.  But this is not the same thing as surviving against other PEOPLE.  That is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.  I liked what kikismom said about junkyard dogs and alley cats getting the hell out of dodge before shit goes down.  Very apt.  But I still maintain there is a great deal of plain old luck involved with who survives out of any given group.  No one wants to admit that because it somehow takes away their agency or diminishes their experiences but eff that.  You should be thankful you were in the right place at the right time or whatever it was.  Mad skillz/courage/bravery only gets you so far.

 

In other news, I am so damned EXCITED it's only 3 DAYS AWAY.

[JBody]

But then again, I think of Dr. Jenner, as was brought up before, when Rick thanked him for giving his family another chance to survive. He said the day will come when you won't be [thankful]. So what's it all about, what's the end game here?

[ghoulina]

But then again, I think of Dr. Jenner, as was brought up before, when Rick thanked him for giving his family another chance to survive. He said the day will come when you won't be [thankful]. So what's it all about, what's the end game here?

 

Good question. That was a gripe my husband had with Rick. He said Rick had no long-term plans, he was just running from place to place. I, of course, disagreed....and another argument ensued. Haha! 

 

I mean, for me, it would be to establish a community and re-build. But can you really rebuild when people are dying at the rate they are? When walkers FAR outnumber humans? I suppose you could if you fortified the shit out of a place and made it self-sustainable. But it would take awhile before you had gathered enough animals and crops to have enough to eat and be able to constantly replenish without having to go outside your walls. 

 

So the thing is, they HAVE to deal with walker situation more proactively. At this point, there shouldn't be too many new ones. I think most survivors by now have probably figured out that you turn no matter what, and are dealing with that accordingly. So they really need to start trying to cull these things. Have people go out on walker-killing missions. Don't just try and prevent them from getting close to you - actually extinguish as many as you can, so you have fewer to worry about. That's what I would want to do anyway. 

 

Then you could set a longer term goal of setting up a community that might have a chance of lasting.

[CletusMusashi]

And... Michonne pulls ahead!

I wasn't behind her on the "We need a mission, so.. eeny meeny miney moe.. Washington!"

But this week, every single second of her was awesome.

And as far as leadership potential goes, I'd say Michonne was this week's MVP, with Maggie in a respectable second place.

I still love Carol, but do the script writers even know she's still alive?

[editorgrrl]

And... Michonne pulls ahead!

I wasn't behind her on the "We need a mission, so.. eeny meeny miney moe.. Washington!"

But this week, every single second of her was awesome.

I liked how they gave Michonne a beat after Daryl agreed with her. He couldn't flat-out side against Rick, so he snarked about the barn smelling like horseshit. But everybody knew what he meant.

[CletusMusashi]

One morning you'll wake up, and you won't be in your bed. You'll be outside the walls, far, far away, tied to a tree. You'll scream and scream 'cause you'll be so afraid. And no one will come to help because no one will hear you. But something will hear you. The monsters will come. The ones out there? And you won't be able to run away when they come for you. And they will tear you apart and eat you up all while you're still alive, all while you can still feel it. And afterwards? No one will ever know what happened to you. 

Or, you can promise to vote for Carol Peletier, and nothing will happen. And you'll get cookies.
 
This post has been approved by The Alexandria 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

Edited March 11, 2015 by CletusMusashi