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S01.E08: Helter Skelter

Snazzy Daisy

By Snazzy Daisy
in MobLand

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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

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Harry is making moves.

Quote

“The King is dead and Maeve is a dangerous lunatic.”

Maeve’s olive branch is just a tactic to lure Conrad and Kevin into a false sense of security. Maeve is obviously threatened by Seraphina. Seraphina is the smartest Harrigan and Maeve cannot control her. I truly hope the “strong medication” that Maeve gives to Seraphina will not kill her.

It’s so satisfying to see Eddie get disappointed when Harry doesn’t react aggressively during their “Gina talk”. I don’t really care about the parentage of that Primo Wagyu. All I want is for him to be dead by the end of this season.

Colin Tattersall is cunning and calculated. He has offered DS Fisk and DC Mukasa to Richie as sacrificial lambs.

It’s a dumb move to kill those 2 police officers, Richie. Their last phone location will be traced back to your place. Duh.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

On 5/12/2025 at 2:56 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't believe that bint Maeve for a second in that preview. In her delusional mind, she blames Seraphina for what happened to Brendan, even though SHE set it all in motion, thinking she had the upper hand.

Quoting myself because I KNEW IT!! I need Maeve to die a horrible horrible and PAINFUL Death! She’s such a hypocritical git as well. No problem with that fucking sociopath Eddie being Conrad’s spawn, but Seraphina is a “base born bastard” eh?

I’m hoping Seraphina pretended to take the pill and a half.

Jan just keeps continuing to prove how bloody STOOPID she is.

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

It’s so satisfying to see Eddie get disappointed when Harry doesn’t react aggressively during their “Gina talk”. I don’t really care about the parentage of that Primo Wagyu. All I want is for him to be dead by the end of this season.

I know, right? I was 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 when that assdouchetasticratbastard’s face fell. Did he REALLY think Harry would rise to his baiting?

But I’m truly disappointed in Gina, if truth be told.

Totally with you about Eddie’s end as well. He’s so ONE-NOTE.

I wonder if Guy Ritchie will direct the finale?

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AntFTW

AntFTW

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Harry is making moves.

Quote

“The King is dead and Maeve is a dangerous lunatic.”

I don’t believe he is. I don’t buy it. I think it was a lie to sell a fake deal to Freddie on the fentanyl so he can pump Freddie for info.

49 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But I’m truly disappointed in Gina, if truth be told.

Same… and in Eddie’s grandparents’ house??? 🤢🤮

TheCathedral

TheCathedral

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

It’s so satisfying to see Eddie get disappointed when Harry doesn’t react aggressively during their “Gina talk”. I don’t really care about the parentage of that Primo Wagyu. All I want is for him to be dead by the end of this season.

That was a masterclass! how to intimidate someone without raising your voice, Harry is the man!

Short episode as usual but really good, at least it didn't end with a cliffhanger this time!

So... when Maeve said your other brother she meant Eddie right? what a family!

If Conrad wasn't played by Pierce Brosnan I'd probably be rooting for Richie.

New drinking game, take a shot every time someone says ''Kat McAllister'' her name was mentioned like 8 times and we still don't know exactly who she is!

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

On 5/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, AntFTW said:

I don’t believe he is. I don’t buy it. I think it was a lie to sell a fake deal to Freddie on the fentanyl so he can pump Freddie for info.

To any other Buffy fans out there: "What else would I pump him for?"

Anyway, I am on the fence about whether Harry was just playing Freddie or if he was letting his mask slip a little about his potential plans.

As he told Conrad, Harry does look at things with as much vision as possible to see the various problems that might be out there and figure out what to do about them.

Harry thus has to know the truth that Conrad is losing a step (as Conrad basically all but admitted) and Maeve is in fact a dangerous lunatic.

As much as he talks about his loyalty, Harry has to wonder about whether it is misplaced. He has to wonder about who's going to win this war at least a little. He has to be wondering if Kevin is up to the possibility of succession. He has to think about whether he wants to prop Eddie up, given Eddie's nature as a psychotic murderer and Eddie's disrespect toward him. He has to think if Seraphina would ever be handed the keys to the kingdom given Maeve, and if she were if she could handle it after seeing her half-brother murdered in front of her and almost being murdered herself and the PTSD she will carry with her for life from those events. He has to think about getting twice indebted to Kat even though both were favors for the Harrigan family and if it is worth it. 

Miscellaneous question time:

Do we think Harry knows that Rusby raped Kevin? Do we think Rusby raped Harry? (I'm assuming not to both)

Do we think Harry knows that Kevin isn't Eddie's actual father and Conrad is? (I'm assuming he does) 

I sometimes wonder if I am too quick to bring race and gender into things, but is there any other reading that would explain why Maeve is so anti-Seraphina and yet so pro-Eddie even though he is a bastard and even though he is like Seraphina an embodiment of Conrad not being able to keep it in the marital bed?

How is it that Maeve would tolerate Bella marrying Kevin? How is it that any of them tolerate the Bella/Kevin marriage: Conrad, Bella, Kevin? Do we think Eddie has any clue that he's really Conrad's direct son, not his grandson?

I take it as an article of faith that Maeve completely made up Seraphina's supposed drugged rant about being Conrad's Number One. But either way, what sense does it make to stir the pot at this particular juncture, this particular way. From what we've seen, Maeve wants Eddie to be in charge for whatever reason. (Maybe she sees him as the heart and soul of the Harrigans as she's said. Maybe she sees him as easier to manipulate than Conrad or the rest. Just pull out a little breast coke here, compliment him there. Who knows?) So why try to encourage Kevin to make moves or to be aware of Eddie possibly rising up?

KittyQ

KittyQ

On 5/18/2025 at 10:49 AM, AntFTW said:

I don’t believe he is. I don’t buy it. I think it was a lie to sell a fake deal to Freddie on the fentanyl so he can pump Freddie for info.

Same… and in Eddie’s grandparents’ house??? 🤢🤮

Maybe a move to sell a fake deal to Freddie, but is it a lie?  Did Freddie die because he now knows the truth and couldn't be trusted not to share that?

Gina? What are you thinking? Maybe I'm just too old, but Eddie is not desirable in any way! He's not even charming or funny to offset his looks. 

Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

14 hours ago, KittyQ said:

Gina? What are you thinking? Maybe I'm just too old, but Eddie is not desirable in any way! He's not even charming or funny to offset his looks. 

She essentially stated what she's thinking: that she has an Elektra Complex and is seeking Eddie out because she sees a reflection of Harry in him.

A couple additional possibilities:

She is sleeping with Eddie because she thinks it will piss Harry off and she's pissed at Harry for disrupting her life and Mom's. Or she's sleeping with Eddie because it will force Harry to take notice of her. Since he whisked her out of her exams in an embarrassing fashion and undid something that was meaningful to her, I don't think he has talked to her once until this episode. I think he specifically didn't bother to say goodbye to her before heading to Antwerp, even after being specifically reminded to by Jan. In either of these cases, mission accomplished. Harry's pissed off and he had to acknowledge her.

She is sleeping with Eddie because she's in a pretty scary situation and he's the only potential reasonable romantic partner there. Although Gina may not have the full picture of what's going on, she has to know that some scary men came to her house, that her life was/is in danger, and she's been stashed away in a couple of locations for her safety. It's not uncommon for someone to want to get it on in the face of possible imminent death. I'm guessing Eddie is in his late teens, early 20s. Everyone else in the vicinity is either much much older or unavailable or uninterested. 

She's interested in Eddie because she knows far less about him than we do. If she fully realized that they're in this situation because for whatever reason, Eddie first stabbed a rando in a club and then killed the son of a rival gang boss, any attraction would go way down. Note that she felt the need to ask him if he was a murderer, and note that he dodged that question. Gina is portrayed as quite astute for a 16-year-old. Hopefully she will come to her senses.

She's interested in Eddie because of the wealth and power that he already has. It's probably hard to not be impressed by someone who's an heir to the fancy estate that they're at.

Mileage will vary, but I (as a hetero male) think Eddie is conventionally attractive and charming enough when he tries.

  • Like 1
Ottis

Ottis

On 5/19/2025 at 2:12 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Do we think Harry knows that Rusby raped Kevin? Do we think Rusby raped Harry? (I'm assuming not to both)

I agree with you, I don't think Harry knows. Otherwise he would be more interested in the fact he saw the guard and Kevin's response. Nor do I think Rusby raped Harry, though just because.

On 5/19/2025 at 2:12 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Anyway, I am on the fence about whether Harry was just playing Freddie or if he was letting his mask slip a little about his potential plans.

I don't think Harry has any intention of removing Conrad. Of course he has noticed the poor decisions and there is a narrative in his mind about that path, but he won't actually do it. He just uses whet everyone else also sees to his advantage.

Here's what I want to know: Given the knee-jerk, bonehead choices the Harrigan family has made all season, with Maeve secretly manipulating things and Conrad sort of allowing it, and Brendan being a Fredo loser and Kev and his wife's issues, and ddie being an ass and sociopath, how did the Harrigans EVER gain power? They are a trainwreck. Were they always a trainwreck? Surely not. So what changed? Are we seeing something new?

 

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

31 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Here's what I want to know: Given the knee-jerk, bonehead choices the Harrigan family has made all season, with Maeve secretly manipulating things and Conrad sort of allowing it, and Brendan being a Fredo loser and Kev and his wife's issues, and ddie being an ass and sociopath, how did the Harrigans EVER gain power? They are a trainwreck. Were they always a trainwreck? Surely not. So what changed? Are we seeing something new?

I'm operating under the assumption that Fisk wasn't just talking trash when he said "The Harrigan Express is losing steam." It seems to be a fact acknowledged by Harry, Maeve and even Conrad himself. To bring in the line from the Godfather, "The Don ... was slipping. 10 years ago, could I have gotten to him ?"  

Assuming Conrad is in his 70s not unlike Pierce Brosnan, he had years to make his bones. I would guess that he ascended to power in the 1970s or 1980s. I'd further assume that the competition that he faced back in the day wasn't up to snuff, and that he could more easily climb to and retain power.

I'd also assume that for most of the last 20 years, Harry has been instrumental to keeping him in power. 

My further assumption is that Conrad started to lose steps in the last few years. Kat was possibly able to see it, which is why she made a move on Harry two years ago. Maeve knows it too, which is why she is more actively stirring the pot and trying to get Eddie in place. 

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Ottis

Ottis

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm operating under the assumption that Fisk wasn't just talking trash when he said "The Harrigan Express is losing steam." It seems to be a fact acknowledged by Harry, Maeve and even Conrad himself. To bring in the line from the Godfather, "The Don ... was slipping. 10 years ago, could I have gotten to him ?"  

If that is the simplistic explanation the show wants us to buy, there are far too many holes for me to buy it. 

Maeve was Conrad's partner and muse in his past crime life. Since the show portrays the Harrigans as being a powerful crime family, the assumption is that Conrad and Maeve worked well together in the past to make them so. So why is Maeve now making her own moves, most of which put Conrad in a difficult position? She isn't the competition, she is his partner. She wouldn't turn against him just because he is slipping. And Eddie? As family leader? Did Maeve turn stupid? He clearly isn't ready. NO ONE thinks he is anywhere near ready.

I posted a few eps back that I thought Conrad was showing signs of dementia, and it was impacting his decision making and emotional state. If they leaned into that a bit more, and had Maeve realize it, helped cover for him and then tried to slowly position a reasonable successor, I could buy into that. Instead, Maeve is as unhinged as Conrad.

Are we supposed to buy that BOTH Conrad and Maeve are slipping at the same time? Seems unlikely.

Also, the competition Conrad is now flailing at isn't an up-and-coming, young leader with technology and new ideas at his disposal. It is Conrad's long-time counterpart, Ritchie. Who operates pretty much like Conrad does. Not exactly a troublesome new player who should suddenly flummox the Harrigans.

And of course none of that that touches on the poor choices we have been shown of Eddie, or Brendan (repeatedly), or apparently Kevin (as we are about to see with the former guard, and already with his marriage). 

Something is missing in this story. Or it is just poorly done. We have seen nothing that makes the case that the Harrigans were ever smart enough to become a powerful crime family, and what we have seen would seem to indicate that, whatever they were, they are getting worse ... for some reason.

Harry is the only competent part of the extended Harrigans (Seraphina shows promise but is overconfident), and they each constantly remind Harry that he is hired help. They don't even handle that well. If the show focused more on Harry trying to work through the failure of the family, that, too, I could buy. But he continues to do what they need, with no real sign of other plans. 

Maybe I am hoping the show is better than it is?

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

12 hours ago, Ottis said:

If that is the simplistic explanation the show wants us to buy, there are far too many holes for me to buy it. 

Maeve was Conrad's partner and muse in his past crime life. Since the show portrays the Harrigans as being a powerful crime family, the assumption is that Conrad and Maeve worked well together in the past to make them so. So why is Maeve now making her own moves, most of which put Conrad in a difficult position? She isn't the competition, she is his partner. She wouldn't turn against him just because he is slipping. And Eddie? As family leader? Did Maeve turn stupid? He clearly isn't ready. NO ONE thinks he is anywhere near ready.

I posted a few eps back that I thought Conrad was showing signs of dementia, and it was impacting his decision making and emotional state. If they leaned into that a bit more, and had Maeve realize it, helped cover for him and then tried to slowly position a reasonable successor, I could buy into that. Instead, Maeve is as unhinged as Conrad.

Are we supposed to buy that BOTH Conrad and Maeve are slipping at the same time? Seems unlikely.

Also, the competition Conrad is now flailing at isn't an up-and-coming, young leader with technology and new ideas at his disposal. It is Conrad's long-time counterpart, Ritchie. Who operates pretty much like Conrad does. Not exactly a troublesome new player who should suddenly flummox the Harrigans.

And of course none of that that touches on the poor choices we have been shown of Eddie, or Brendan (repeatedly), or apparently Kevin (as we are about to see with the former guard, and already with his marriage). 

Something is missing in this story. Or it is just poorly done. We have seen nothing that makes the case that the Harrigans were ever smart enough to become a powerful crime family, and what we have seen would seem to indicate that, whatever they were, they are getting worse ... for some reason.

Harry is the only competent part of the extended Harrigans (Seraphina shows promise but is overconfident), and they each constantly remind Harry that he is hired help. They don't even handle that well. If the show focused more on Harry trying to work through the failure of the family, that, too, I could buy. But he continues to do what they need, with no real sign of other plans. 

Maybe I am hoping the show is better than it is?

I'd say the show is pretty well written.

We seem unlikely to get the Mobland equivalent of a Godfather II, where we get a detailed look at Conrad's rise to power. But I think you overestimate how much intelligence it might take to rise to power and to keep it. It certainly could be that Conrad was sharper than he is now. But it also could be that he was lucky, better armed, more ruthless or had a squadron of Harrys instead of just the one.

I also think that you may be overstating the stupidity of Conrad in the present day. Almost everything that I would say he's done wrong has a root cause in trusting Maeve. 

Believe that Archie was working with Richie Stevenson and immediately killing him in front of witnesses (even if they are expected to be loyal to you) without confirmation and without interrogating him was a bad idea stacked on a bad idea stacked on a bad idea. Maeve was largely responsible for that. 

Not choosing "twist" and taking out Richie Stevenson when he had the chance was certainly a bad choice in retrospect, and probably one even without the benefit of hindsight. Killing him would have been the fastest way to minimize the possibility of a war costing him and his family much and would have expedited taking over the Fire. That too was Maeve's call. And he didn't even have an independent understanding of why she made it. 

Not properly investigating the rat in his family who told the cops about Archie's final resting place is a mistake. That should have been a high priority. It's unclear how much he listened to Maeve that it might be Harry. But it doesn't seem like it's the toughest mystery to solve. To the best of his knowledge, only he, Harry and the tame undertaker knew the specifics about Archie. So either one of them told the police, or they told someone who then tipped off the police. Conrad should know who he told. The tame undertaker presumably didn't tell anybody, but it's not a difficult thing to check. We the audience happen to know that Harry told O'Hara the family lawyer. So that's the rat. If Conrad had called Harry in and confronted him about it, Conrad would have (hopefully) dispelled any concern about Harry's rattishness and figured out who it was, or at least, who it could be. (I do wonder if she's both the rat to the police and if she'd been working with Richie. My guess is Maeve had been working with Richie and threw Archie under the bus as a misdirect.

Trusting Maeve when she says that Richie texted her that he had Brendan and Seraphina. It simply does not make sense how Richie could have worked out where Brendan and Seraphina were before the Harrigans and grabbed them. It doesn't make sense why Richie would have texted Maeve instead of Conrad to gloat about having captured them. 

TLDR: if Maeve was more trustworthy, if Conrad didn't listen to her as much in the present, the Harrigans would have made better moves in the present. It may be that past Maeve was sharper/more trustworthy or Conrad relied on her less. 

I take it at face value that Maeve hasn't turned against Conrad but thinks that the moves she is suggesting are good ones and will benefit him and the Harrigans. 

The way I read the show is that Maeve believes she's covering for Conrad's slipping/dementia as best she can while trying to put in a plan as best she can. Brendan was unsuitable. So is Seraphina in her eyes because of her bastardry and no doubt in my mind her race/gender. Harry has the smarts and the balls to run things. But Maeve doesn't want to risk that he also has the ambition so she shit-talks him behind his back. Maeve's choices in the family are Kevin and Eddie. Kevin is a relatively passive guy who accepted marrying his dad's sloppy seconds and raising his half-brother as his son. He's literally a cuck. Can she talk sense into him to get him to man up enough to be the new head? Probably not. So all she's left with is Eddie. Maybe with her guidance he can be a true Harrigan.

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Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 Kevin is a relatively passive guy who accepted marrying his dad's sloppy seconds and raising his half-brother as his son. He's literally a cuck. Can she talk sense into him to get him to man up enough to be the new head? Probably not. So all she's left with is Eddie. Maybe with her guidance he can be a true Harrigan.

 

Was it explicitly confirmed that Eddie is Conrad's son rather than Kevin's?  I know that his wife was with Conrad before him, but I thought it was just speculation as to Eddie's parentage.

(Eddie is a bastard through and through, regardless of who his daddy is)

Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

2 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

 

Was it explicitly confirmed that Eddie is Conrad's son rather than Kevin's?  I know that his wife was with Conrad before him, but I thought it was just speculation as to Eddie's parentage.

(Eddie is a bastard through and through, regardless of who his daddy is)

In this episode, Maeve lectures Kevin about stepping up to the plate to run things as Seraphina is supposedly claiming that she's Conrad's Number 1. 

In the back and forth, Maeve basically said the successor should be Kevin or his brother. Kevin said that part was moot since Brendan was now dead, and Maeve said she wasn't talking about Brendan.. Which got Kevin pissed off.

So the implication seems clear (to me, anyway) that Eddie is in fact Conrad's kid. No other reason for Kevin to be so salty about the implication if it's not true.

Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

9 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In this episode, Maeve lectures Kevin about stepping up to the plate to run things as Seraphina is supposedly claiming that she's Conrad's Number 1. 

In the back and forth, Maeve basically said the successor should be Kevin or his brother. Kevin said that part was moot since Brendan was now dead, and Maeve said she wasn't talking about Brendan.. Which got Kevin pissed off.

So the implication seems clear (to me, anyway) that Eddie is in fact Conrad's kid. No other reason for Kevin to be so salty about the implication if it's not true.

Ah, see I thought that Maeve was referring to Harry as Kevin's 'brother' since Conrad has treated him like a son. 

 

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