S02.E01: Future Days

[Dev F]

15 hours ago, tv-talk said:

She's not at all invincible and can easily be killed by these monsters or a random bad person. Being immune to the infection doesnt make her an immortal by any stretch.

People don't develop an invincibility complex because they are literally invincible. It's a psychological response to anxiety, trauma, and the like. I'm hard pressed to think of an experience more diabolically calibrated to provoke it than for a young kid to go through hell and high water because everyone told her she had a unique immunity with the power to literally save humanity, but then when she got to the end of it her trusted father figure tells her no, you're actually not special at all and the world doesn't need you—just forget all that and come back with me and be a normal kid. Fuck you, I'm not just some kid! seems like a pretty understandable response to me.

And on top of that, to either know or suspect that your father figure probably killed a bunch of people and ended humanity's chance for a cure to the plague that's destroying it, all to save your supposedly inconsequential life? And to hear echoes of that in every authority figure who preaches how important it is to put your own safety ahead of fighting the infected? Fuck you, I'll show you how important I think my life is! also seems like an understandable reaction.

Quote

As far as what she knows happened in hospital...I suppose we will see via flashbacks if things happened over the years that tipped her off as to how Joel saved her or if she's just a 19yr old raging at her 'Dad' unfairly (and normally).

The season begins by replaying the scene where Joel lied to Ellie, and Joel's therapist can tell that he's lying to her when he acts like Ellie's anger is just about how "every nineteen-year-old daughter has ever acted toward their dad ever." I don't really think the answer to that question is much of a mystery.

Edited April 17 by Dev F

[baldryanr]

20 hours ago, tv-talk said:

I wish Joel would just say "Yeah they had no idea what they were doing and just wanted to dissect her brain on a hunch and without telling her, so I killed them all and came back"

Pretty sure most everyone would be ok with that.

That's the real world conclusion - their plan was ludicrous and had no chance of actually working, so they were killing Ellie for nothing.  Heck, even if they had managed to make the cure, how were they going to mass produce it?

However, in universe it is being treated as a sure thing.  Joel didn't save Ellie from a bunch of morons who were going to kill a kid out of stupidity, he murdered the doctors who were going to save what's left of the world.  Joel wouldn't be feeling so torn up about it if he didn't believe this.

Edited April 17 by baldryanr

[tv-talk]

18 hours ago, mcree said:

It's telling that Joel doesn't go with that lie instead.

Except it's not even really a lie. They didnt know cutting up her brain would bring a cure or vaccine, it was guess work. 

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

However, in universe it is being treated as a sure thing.  Joel didn't save Ellie from a bunch of morons who were going to kill a kid out of stupidity, he murdered the doctors who were going to save what's left of the world.  Joel wouldn't be feeling so torn up about it if he didn't believe this.

Ok I didnt take it that way, will have to rewatch last season finale. I recall it as when doctor or whoever explained it to Joel it didnt seem like a sure thing that it would work. Rather they didnt tell Ellie they were going to kill her and they DID tell Joel it was experimental and may or may not even work.

[tv-talk]

8 hours ago, Dev F said:

Fuck you, I'll show you how important I think my life is! also seems like an understandable reaction.

It's only one episode but Ellie came off as actually believing she is the ultimate bad ass. For instance she could barely comprehend that the guy in opening scene could have ended her immediately with the 1st punch, she is somehow delusional enough about herself to think she can overcome anyone or thing. What you are describing is more of an 'I dont care what happens to me' dynamic which personally I didnt get from her. 

[iMonrey]

One thing I forgot to comment on. When Ellie fell into the lower floor of the store, she looked at the exits and they were chained shut with padlocks. But . . . she had a gun, and a rifle. All she had to do was shoot the padlock off the chains.

[Dev F]

22 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Except it's not even really a lie. They didnt know cutting up her brain would bring a cure or vaccine, it was guess work.

In the show, Marlene is actually pretty specific about why the doctor wants to cut open Ellie's brain: because the benign form of Cordyceps that's growing in her brain produces a chemical that repels the dangerous form of Cordyceps, and if they obtain a sample of it, they can grow it in a lab and mass-produce the chemical to serve as a vaccine. They're hardly cutting her open to poke around and see what they find.

And if we were supposed to think the Fireflies were just quacks, it would completely gut the story. Joel already saved Ellie from a delusional leader who commanded his followers through false hope and murder in the immediately previous episode, so doing it again in the finale would be a meaningless duplication. The whole point is that Joel's bond with Ellie strengthens further, to the point that he chooses to save her rather than save the world.

22 hours ago, tv-talk said:

It's only one episode but Ellie came off as actually believing she is the ultimate bad ass. For instance she could barely comprehend that the guy in opening scene could have ended her immediately with the 1st punch, she is somehow delusional enough about herself to think she can overcome anyone or thing. What you are describing is more of an 'I dont care what happens to me' dynamic which personally I didnt get from her. 

I described two different, intertwined motivations, one of which was a death wish but the other of which was exactly what you describe: an "invincibility complex," a.k.a., "Fuck you, I'm not just some kid!"

In fact, my previous post was in response to you saying you didn't think it made sense for Ellie to have an invincibility complex, so I'm confused that you now seem to be arguing that I'm wrong because Ellie does have an invincibility complex!

Edited April 18 by Dev F

[mcree]

14 hours ago, baldryanr said:

That's the real world conclusion - their plan was ludicrous and had no chance of actually working, so they were killing Ellie for nothing.  Heck, even if they had managed to make the cure, how were they going to mass produce it?

That's certainly *a* real-world conclusion. Doctors and scientists working for twenty years to find a cure couldn't possibly have a working theory that is validated by finding someone that is actually immune, right? And if they did, production and distribution would be another problem, so why bother trying? It's not like billions of people have had and continue to have their lives cut short without their consent; that's not worth trying to fix, especially if you have to cut corners to do it.

Granted, the show has infected humans developing echo-location, and the fungus communicating over distances; but let's not get crazy.

 

[whydoievencare]

On 4/13/2025 at 10:54 PM, iMonrey said:

Huh? Wouldn't that mean he died less than a year ago if it's her first birthday since his death? Does she only have a birthday every four years? What am I missing?

 

On 4/13/2025 at 11:58 PM, iMonrey said:

What? Your previous post said he died four years ago. It's five years later, it's her first birthday since he died. So you agree he died less than a year ago. Why did you say he died four years ago?

You've mis-read Dev F's posts.  They said in BOTH posts that Eugene died less than a year ago.  That he died 4 years into the 5 year time jump.  It's the same time frame expressed different ways.

[millennium]

On 4/14/2025 at 12:58 AM, Blakeston said:

Am I not supposed to be thinking of Eugene Levy every time Catherine O'Hara refers to her husband Eugene?

I was thinking (and hoping) it was another Eugene.

 

On 4/17/2025 at 10:34 PM, Dev F said:

In the show, Marlene is actually pretty specific about why the doctor wants to cut open Ellie's brain: because the benign form of Cordyceps that's growing in her brain produces a chemical that repels the dangerous form of Cordyceps, and if they obtain a sample of it, they can grow it in a lab and mass-produce the chemical to serve as a vaccine. They're hardly cutting her open to poke around and see what they find.

For me, the problem was that Marlene blurted this out without any sort of foundation.   We weren't told or shown who made that diagnosis, how or when.  We didn't see the doctor(s), we don't know their qualifications, we can't judge how credible they are.    We're just supposed to believe that the unseen doctors have made the correct conclusion in what would seem a less than state of the art facility.   It all felt very sketchy to me.

[millennium]

Ellie was pretty unlikable this episode.   Arrogant as hell and heedless of the danger she exposes everybody else to by thinking rules don't apply to her.

What I don't get is why they're all tiptoeing around her, like they're afraid to offend her.

Did Ellie do her own tattoos?  It seems unlikely she would let anyone in the compound lay eyes on her arm.

The Fireflies on a vengeance ride to dole out justice for their fallen comrades is a tired trope.   It tends to homogenize this show.  

Edited April 19 by millennium

[T Summer]

10 hours ago, millennium said:

Ellie was pretty unlikable this episode.   Arrogant as hell and heedless of the danger she exposes everybody else to by thinking rules don't apply to her.

What I don't get is why they're all tiptoeing around her, like they're afraid to offend her.

Did Ellie do her own tattoos?  It seems unlikely she would let anyone in the compound lay eyes on her arm.

The Fireflies on a vengeance ride to dole out justice for their fallen comrades is a tired trope.   It tends to homogenize this show.  

Yes! All of that, and they stay on their  quest for vengence for 5 years?

 

 

[millennium]

3 hours ago, T Summer said:

Yes! All of that, and they stay on their  quest for vengence for 5 years?

I was just thinking about that earlier.   Five years is a LONG time.   What have they been doing?  Wandering in the wilderness for five years asking everyone they meet if they know a "Joe or Joel?"  Who holds a grudge for 5 years?.   For the sake of argument, let's just say Kaitlyn Dever's character can -- what about the rest of her group?  They didn't want to go after Joel in the first place, but we're supposed to believe they're still posse-ing after 5 years?  They would have said see ya after 5 months.

Edited April 19 by millennium

[T Summer]

You'd think keeping on top of  safety, food + water, shelter,  medicine, tools, batteries, ammo, transportation  etc to keep things working would keep them way too busy.

 

Early in the ep. they were gathered by their fellow fireflies burial site, but then it ended with them closing in so we can assume they've been on this quest for 5 years. Even if not full time... you'd think they'd have more pressing concerns.

🤔

 

[Anela]

Are we going to find out why he killed his therapist's husband? Was he infected? 

[T Summer]

I don't know if I'm going to like the way they've written  season 2  Ellie. Joel instructs Tommy to take her off patrols and have her guard  the fence because she did something reckless by wandering off. So after insisting she's not childish and careless she's on patrol and wanders off with into a building with one other girl... because that worked out so well when it was she and another girl in that abandoned mall in s1. Way to prove you can stick to the rules and take direction from the patrol leader.

Plus  we're to believe she's maintained this pissy attitude toward Joel for 5 years? Yeah,  Ellie couldn't cut the man who had his daughter die in his arms some slack for doing whatever it took to save her?

[MrWhyt]

9 hours ago, T Summer said:

Plus  we're to believe she's maintained this pissy attitude toward Joel for 5 years?

nothing in the episode says she's been mad at him the whole 5 years. It's obvious they lived together, still kind of do, he taught her to play the guitar, they definitely had some time when they were still on good terms.

[T Summer]

Being that on their long trip together Ellie no doubt learned  that Joel's daughter died in his arms...  I feel like younger Ellie as portrayed in s1 would've been a whole lot more understanding of what Joel did.

 

That attitude even if it was just some days, not every day should not still be surfacing 5 years later. It just doesn't fit with the relationship we watched them forge over their time together.

 

YMMV

Edited Monday at 03:08 AM by T Summer
hit post way too soon