Your outie thinks they know what will happen (speculation topic)

[Affogato]

Speculation thread

Edited Wednesday at 11:54 PM by Affogato
Clarification

[myfavouritemug]

I'm suspicious of Helena Eagan's seeming lack of experience, tact, and social prowess as evident in the last episode. Her stalking Mark to the restaurant and flirting with him read to me like a teen girl hopping out her bedroom window after curfew to meet her crush, and I think this speaks to her overall emotional maturity as an outie. I feel like this is supported by Mr Drummond coincidentally being at Irving's at the same time (Helena likely would have known about that and would know he couldn't be following her at the same time) and her willingness to be so openly predatory at the restaurant with a subordinate.

Is it odd that the 30 year old female future of a global giant like Lumon doesn't have a more slightly more sensible head on her shoulders? Is it odd that there is no indication of any type of romantic partner or family for her outie what with her being the seemingly sole genetic future of the Lumon family? It doesn't seem that Helena sleeping with Mark S. at the retreat was a corporate plan or strategy, at least not at this time, so what is their true plan for Helena in the long run? It doesn't seem like they are instilling within her what she would need to follow her father's footsteps in running the company, at least not at this rate, so what is her true purpose and how does that relate to her general unpreparedness at this time? Is she just an eventual vessel and nothing more? What is the future of Lumon leadership if their genetic line is not being formally continued in the traditional sense? Is Helena sleeping with Mark S. her own method of partially dictating this future, or is it simply someone stunted seeking the only sliver of tenderness they have available to them through any sick means necessary?

[Affogato]

49 minutes ago, myfavouritemug said:

I'm suspicious of Helena Eagan's seeming lack of experience, tact, and social prowess as evident in the last episode. Her stalking Mark to the restaurant and flirting with him read to me like a teen girl hopping out her bedroom window after curfew to meet her crush, and I think this speaks to her overall emotional maturity as an outie. I feel like this is supported by Mr Drummond coincidentally being at Irving's at the same time (Helena likely would have known about that and would know he couldn't be following her at the same time) and her willingness to be so openly predatory at the restaurant with a subordinate.

Is it odd that the 30 year old female future of a global giant like Lumon doesn't have a more slightly more sensible head on her shoulders? Is it odd that there is no indication of any type of romantic partner or family for her outie what with her being the seemingly sole genetic future of the Lumon family? It doesn't seem that Helena sleeping with Mark S. at the retreat was a corporate plan or strategy, at least not at this time, so what is their true plan for Helena in the long run? It doesn't seem like they are instilling within her what she would need to follow her father's footsteps in running the company, at least not at this rate, so what is her true purpose and how does that relate to her general unpreparedness at this time? Is she just an eventual vessel and nothing more? What is the future of Lumon leadership if their genetic line is not being formally continued in the traditional sense? Is Helena sleeping with Mark S. her own method of partially dictating this future, or is it simply someone stunted seeking the only sliver of tenderness they have available to them through any sick means necessary?

We don’t know a lot about the family, the makeup of the current family,  or what they actually believe. ‘Father’ certainly seems to communicate with and rely on Drummond, not Helena. 

 

 

[Affogato]

Maybe Severance started with forgetting, like when working in the ‘ether mines’ workers of the early times would forget what had happened and how long they worked. They would also return to work because they were addicted. This seemed felicitous to the company managers and they have worked on ways to improve on this, eventually hitting upon the current severing chip. 
 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, myfavouritemug said:

Is it odd that the 30 year old female future of a global giant like Lumon doesn't have a more slightly more sensible head on her shoulders?

30? More like 40, I would think.

What is this thread? Is this the name of the next episode?

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

30? More like 40, I would think.

What is this thread? Is this the name of the next episode?

 No, I just thought perhaps people would like to speculate about what is happening. 

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

No, I just thought perhaps people would like to speculate about what is happening. 

I like it! 

I think they are working to clone Kier and bring him back somehow. What Mark and Gemma have to do with it or why they are so important to the project is what I don't understand.

And was Gemma actually in a car accident or did they stage that and kidnap her? And even if the latter is true, how did they know Mark would sever himself? I mean, what would have happened if he had just kept teaching? Or is he important not because of who he is but just because he is the best refiner?

[Affogato]

9 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I like it! 

I think they are working to clone Kier and bring him back somehow. What Mark and Gemma have to do with it or why they are so important to the project is what I don't understand.

And was Gemma actually in a car accident or did they stage that and kidnap her? And even if the latter is true, how did they know Mark would sever himself? I mean, what would have happened if he had just kept teaching? Or is he important not because of who he is but just because he is the best refiner?

Cobel was stealing things from Mark’s basement and putting them around Miss Casey’s ‘office’.  Candle. And once she says something about it being good they don’t recognise each other. 
 

i’m not sure what that meant. Will she recognise him when they finish refining? Was he hired because of their relationship?  Was he already next to selvig or did she pick him and push him to sever himself. 
 

i don’t know. 

[SoMuchTV]

9 hours ago, Affogato said:

Speculation thread

Can i suggest to add “Speculation Thread” to the title? I’m pretty sure as the thread starter you’re able to edit your initial post and modify the title. 

[Girl in a Cardigan]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

i’m not sure what that meant. Will she recognise him when they finish refining? Was he hired because of their relationship?  Was he already next to selvig or did she pick him and push him to sever himself. 

This is very interesting to me. The few times they talk about Mark's previous work life, he was a professor and when he went back to work after Gemma's death "it was a disaster." But in what way? Was he crying in class? Didn't grade work? Had an outburst? Because as someone who has worked in higher ed, I would think that the admin would just put Mark on leave until he was ready to return - take a sabbatical or something. But in less than two years since her death (right?), Mark has not only completely changed career paths (no research, no consulting, etc or anything else you'd do with a PhD) and severed to work at Lumon.

Did Cobel already live next to Gemma and Mark and suggest it? Did Mark move there after he severed? Did Cobel provoke whatever incident caused him to leave his job as a professor? Is Mark the only one with a "minder" like that?

[Affogato]

48 minutes ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

This is very interesting to me. The few times they talk about Mark's previous work life, he was a professor and when he went back to work after Gemma's death "it was a disaster." But in what way? Was he crying in class? Didn't grade work? Had an outburst? Because as someone who has worked in higher ed, I would think that the admin would just put Mark on leave until he was ready to return - take a sabbatical or something. But in less than two years since her death (right?), Mark has not only completely changed career paths (no research, no consulting, etc or anything else you'd do with a PhD) and severed to work at Lumon.

Did Cobel already live next to Gemma and Mark and suggest it? Did Mark move there after he severed? Did Cobel provoke whatever incident caused him to leave his job as a professor? Is Mark the only one with a "minder" like that?

That’s a good series of points about his job. Milchick lures him back this season by telling him his Innie is happy and he can benefit from that, and that could have been the worm on the hook that dragged him in. 

Cobel/Selvig seems to feel proprietary about Mark (and her job ) so i think Mark could have been her idea, her project. 
 

 

[seank941]

15 hours ago, myfavouritemug said:

I'm suspicious of Helena Eagan's seeming lack of experience, tact, and social prowess as evident in the last episode. Her stalking Mark to the restaurant and flirting with him read to me like a teen girl hopping out her bedroom window after curfew to meet her crush, and I think this speaks to her overall emotional maturity as an outie. I feel like this is supported by Mr Drummond coincidentally being at Irving's at the same time (Helena likely would have known about that and would know he couldn't be following her at the same time) and her willingness to be so openly predatory at the restaurant with a subordinate.

Is it odd that the 30 year old female future of a global giant like Lumon doesn't have a more slightly more sensible head on her shoulders? Is it odd that there is no indication of any type of romantic partner or family for her outie what with her being the seemingly sole genetic future of the Lumon family? It doesn't seem that Helena sleeping with Mark S. at the retreat was a corporate plan or strategy, at least not at this time, so what is their true plan for Helena in the long run? It doesn't seem like they are instilling within her what she would need to follow her father's footsteps in running the company, at least not at this rate, so what is her true purpose and how does that relate to her general unpreparedness at this time? Is she just an eventual vessel and nothing more? What is the future of Lumon leadership if their genetic line is not being formally continued in the traditional sense? Is Helena sleeping with Mark S. her own method of partially dictating this future, or is it simply someone stunted seeking the only sliver of tenderness they have available to them through any sick means necessary?

I think Helena is meant to be the face of the company while the board actually runs things. Even in her conversation with Mark, she was constantly using the company message as a fallback when she started getting too comfortable with him. As soon as she gets severance passed nationwide, she will lose her importance to the board. We don't really know anything about the board, but I think it's safe to assume they are all Eagans (Helena can't be the only descendent of Kier).

If the pregnancy theory is true (not sure how I feel about that), the restaurant scene makes more sense to me. Not only would Helena need to meet Mark secretly, she would probably want to get to know him in a "neutral" setting. Any official meeting might make him guarded, and she'd want to see him acting naturally. Any relationship with outie Mark would have to move fast because the alternatives would be a P.R. nightmare. Sleeping with a lower level employee looks bad, but sleeping with an innie would probably kill the severance bill.

[Ilovepie]

18 hours ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

Did Cobel already live next to Gemma and Mark and suggest it? Did Mark move there after he severed? Did Cobel provoke whatever incident caused him to leave his job as a professor? Is Mark the only one with a "minder" like that?

Mark is living in Lumon housing so I would guess he moved there after being hired by Lumon. Maybe Cobel was already living there but who knows? Her whole Selvig personality seems like her own idea. After the OTC debacle (from Lumon's perspective) and her dismissal I am assuming Lumon was unaware of how much she had finagled her way into Mark's family's life. It appears it was ok for her to keep sending him to interact with "Miss Casey" to test the severance, but taking on a new identity and lying about being a lactation nurse to become friends with his sister and her new baby? No.

[seank941]

On 2/26/2025 at 2:13 PM, Ilovepie said:

And was Gemma actually in a car accident or did they stage that and kidnap her? And even if the latter is true, how did they know Mark would sever himself? I mean, what would have happened if he had just kept teaching? Or is he important not because of who he is but just because he is the best refiner?

I don't think Gemma is completely innocent in everything. I'm not sure if she wanted a life like Ms. Casey, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she chose to be severed. Maybe things weren't as great with Mark as he believes, or maybe she just wanted a new life. Turning her into another Lumon victim is kind of boring from a storytelling point of view, because Mark needs a reason to return to Lumon after she is "rescued".

 

On 2/26/2025 at 2:28 PM, Affogato said:

Cobel was stealing things from Mark’s basement and putting them around Miss Casey’s ‘office’.  Candle. And once she says something about it being good they don’t recognise each other. 
 

i’m not sure what that meant. Will she recognise him when they finish refining? Was he hired because of their relationship?  Was he already next to selvig or did she pick him and push him to sever himself. 
 

i don’t know. 

Lumon reminds me of Vault-Tec from Fallout. Even though they have a greater mission to accomplish, they enjoy running small scale human behavior experiments. I wouldn't be surprised if they just chose to take advantage of the opportunity.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, seank941 said:

I don't think Gemma is completely innocent in everything. I'm not sure if she wanted a life like Ms. Casey, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she chose to be severed. Maybe things weren't as great with Mark as he believes, or maybe she just wanted a new life. Turning her into another Lumon victim is kind of boring from a storytelling point of view, because Mark needs a reason to return to Lumon after she is "rescued".

 

Lumon reminds me of Vault-Tec from Fallout. Even though they have a greater mission to accomplish, they enjoy running small scale human behavior experiments. I wouldn't be surprised if they just chose to take advantage of the opportunity.

I wonder if the revenue from severance doesn’t come from politicians severing their wives and black op strike groups. (Etc) and If the severance floors aren’t all product development of some sort. Experiments, as you say. Burt’s area was shuttered, except for the one woman. 

i do wonder if people can be severed multiple times and if outie Gemma/ms Casey could be someone completely different. 
 

i also wonder if Dieter wasn’t a player and might have descendants, or a business. 

 

 

[Ilovepie]

18 hours ago, seank941 said:

I don't think Gemma is completely innocent in everything. I'm not sure if she wanted a life like Ms. Casey, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she chose to be severed. Maybe things weren't as great with Mark as he believes, or maybe she just wanted a new life.

That is an interesting theory - it feels like we are supposed to ship Mark S. and Helly, which is kind of messy considering Mark is legally married to Gemma (if that is her). If Gemma is not innocent in this, I guess that makes it easier to root for Mark and Helly. But I do not feel like Ms. Casey was happy to be going down the dark hall and into that elevator that Irv paints. I guess we'll see where this goes.....

[Affogato]

I wonder if this means Irving also was part of a version of the many rooms experiment. 

Edited Friday at 11:34 PM by Affogato

[lavenderblue]

I like this possibility very much, along with a related theory I saw on Reddit that Burt may have been his Dr. Mauer down there, if he was a previous test subject.

Edited Saturday at 12:51 AM by lavenderblue

[Girl in a Cardigan]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

I wonder if this means Irving also was part of a version of the many rooms experiment. 

Yes, I was thinking this too as I watched Gemma's Ms Casey innie head back down that elevator. I wonder if that has something to do with why he was so passionate about the Eagens when Helly first starts. Clearly, whatever they do on the testing floor remains in the body, even if the innie on the Severed floor can't remember.

[arc]

7 hours ago, Affogato said:

I wonder if this means Irving also was part of a version of the many rooms experiment. 

That would at least imply Gemma would also get to leave at the end of her cycle of experiments!

Hmm, but wait, did Irving have his death faked while he disappeared from the outer world for a few years? Or maybe he has no friends or family to miss him? He'd still have to have had the death reversed in the relevant government records.

[seank941]

I wonder how much Helena actually told the Lumon higher-ups about what she was doing with Mark at MDR. If she told them everything, it makes zero sense that they would want Helly down there instead of her. The "rescue Gemma" plan that she started with Mark is going to be chaos when they finally reach the hallway. Right now none of them know that the elevator will bring back their outie personalities. When they reach the bottom floor we'll have Mark (still Mark), Helena, and Dylan (confused, useless outie, with a wife and kids). How will Lumon explain that to everybody? At least undercover Helena could do something to sabotage the plan, even if it was just stay out of the elevator to avoid being a hostage.

If they can rescue Gemma, how will she feel about Mark? Ever since she "died", he's basically become a different person, and that was before reintegration. Their relationship was stressed before her "death", and now he has sort of moved on. We don't really know how much of his relationship with Helly is still left, but judging by his reaction to Helena last week, and other innie/outie relationships on the show, those feelings won't just disappear. 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, arc said:

That would at least imply Gemma would also get to leave at the end of her cycle of experiments!

Hmm, but wait, did Irving have his death faked while he disappeared from the outer world for a few years? Or maybe he has no friends or family to miss him? He'd still have to have had the death reversed in the relevant government records.

It is possible that some form of Gemma will go out and be presented as the face of Lumon. The doctor may hope someone who is in love with him. And maybe the expect Mark will be severed from his grief. 
 

 

12 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I like this possibility very much, along with a related theory I saw on Reddit that Burt may have been his Dr. Mauer down there, if he was a previous test subject.

It is a thought. Personally I am more suspicious of Fields. 

Edited Saturday at 01:13 PM by Affogato

[Affogato]

Maybe the important thing is not necessarily having an innie do the unpleasant things in life, although the childbirth clinics are a thing already (how do they do that? The wife must know? Or not?) and you could easily train innies to be soldiers, who take on any ptsd and leave the outies clean. Four years an innie. 
 

 It is refining the data, balancing the tempers. There are more than the four, as Cobel lets on at one point.  Each of the rooms  is an opportunity to become more regulated and to go beyond the experience. So if everyone is chipped they can all, for a fee, become clear of the trauma these unpleasant events cause. Maybe it isn’t necessarily to avoid turbulence, because you can’t, but to fish it out and balance it. Yes, this is beginning to sound not only like the Kellogg wellness clinic, but like Scientology.  Everyone carries some trauma. 
 

i think the picture for the episode ‘sweet. Vitriol’ is the road mark takes to drive home. 
 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Affogato

[Affogato]

Mitchick lures mark back by saying his innie is happy and it will leak through to Mark’s outie eventually.  This is a lie.  One purpose of the tests seem to be to make sure nothing leaks through and it seems to be working. 
 

 

[Affogato]

But back to immortality. How do we bring back Kier? What are the Board? 

[KarenX]

I wonder if we will see another Gemma escape attempt and see that next time, a very angry and disillusioned Milchick will just bring Ms Casey straight to Mark S on the Severed floor.