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SilverStormm

Dragon's Den (Canada)

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Nothing that interesting here. I've seen so many versions of fruit in water bottles, and while their screw addition to squeeze it is new I also feel like it would be a pain to clean. Maybe the surfboard was decent. I don't know; not my market.

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I have to say that I'm tired of episodes where they follow the history of the dragons, but this one was different - like a big extended update.

I remember all the pitchers except for the flax guy. I'm glad they're all doing well.

I miss Brent and David. Of all the dragons,  they always struck me as such honest, stand up guys.

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From last week, that Tricolops packaging robot was interesting, but what got into the dragons? Arlene especially. She implied he only wanted the publicity, then pushed him to name his choice of Dragons, then got annoyed when it wasn't her. This wasn't the first pitch where it felt like she wanted a premium value on herself, but it was the most unfriendly.

And I wonder how useful the sizing robot even is. I'm sure it will have some uses, but A) either you pack the same stuff a lot, B) you only have so many boxes and can eyeball the right size, or C) you have other packing concerns. (For example, Amazon's algorithm doesn't always want the smallest box. It wants the box that fits in the desired space on the truck with no room for shifting around.

By contrast, I'm completely with Arlene in being annoyed at the electric car guy, and I like that Jim gave him a "shut up" offer. As you might guess, it doesn't seem to have passed due diligence. Jim frequently tweets to plug pitches and he didn't mention them by name, nor does anything on their Facebook indicate a final deal.

This week, smart pitch from the 3d app guys. Neat idea, well-presented, and with a good job in the negotiation too.

It was nice to see the "Belly Ice Cream" revisit. I remember how completely clueless she was on that pitch, so it's good to hear that she realized the error. I'm rooting for her now.

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Catching up on the last 2 episodes.

The electronic scoring system for Taekwondo is a clever (if niche) product. I'm surprised though that there's any interest in rewarding hard hits. That seems like asking for trouble if you're encouraging competitors to strike each other harder. (Even if the product itself is padding it.)

I didn't get the appeal of the mechanics gloves, but apparently wearing them was very impressive.

I am ready to declare myself done with the "round up your purchase" apps. I've seen several now and hated even the first one. They want me to pay a fee to take money out of my own account and then let them control my savings for me? No thanks. But what do I know because they got 3 dragons at an $8m valuation for an app that hasn't launched yet.

Virtual vet seems like a good idea, although I don't know how much can really be diagnosed or not over a video chat. 

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Jim was really enamored by a pretty simple idea to hold champagne flutes in place. Because that's all she had was an idea. He even thought the product needed some design changes and everyone thought the price was too high. Yet he just went in on her ask? (Though to be fair, she valued herself at $250k so that's relatively low for what we've seen lately.)

Column Cozy isn't a bad idea, but it was downright funny how hard Arlene smacked them down on the pricing.

Lava Grip ... I could have sworn Dragons Den had a similar product years ago. Back in the Brett seasons. I'm pretty sure volcanic rock replacing road salt was presented then and the idea was to get a city contract. So it was very weird for me to see this presented like new. Or I'm crazy or totally misremembering something else.

I didn't see anything special about the hammock guys, but if they're charming enough to create a brand that got 3 dragons then I guess that's good enough.

I can see there being an audience for a classier energy drink, and I can see that audience paying $4.50 / can for it. But I don't know how big that audience is because I'm certainly not in it.

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Season Premiere Sept 20 @ 8pm.

Joe and Wek are both gone. Replacing them are Lane Merrifield, founder of Club Penguin and former Disney Exec. And Vincenzo Guzzo, owner of movie theaters and restaurants. (Thus leaving the Dragon total at 6.)

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Episode 1: In the season premiere, two new Dragons bring their expertise to the panel while a cheerful entrepreneur hopes her success doesn’t melt away. Also, a sibling duo seek to frame an investment and a social enterprise hopes to reel in a deal. Plus, a team of scientists think the Dragons will get fired up over their hidden treasure.

Companies are: Affici Inc, Excir Works, Happy Pops, and Lucky Iron Fish.

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I am wondering how others liked the two new dragons? I liked Lane, not sure if I will like Vincenzo. And as much as I like Arlene, I am a little tired of her getting annoyed when she gets underbid. If others want to give more/and or get less of a percentage, than the ask, that is up to them. She comes off as a sore loser. OTOH, I did like her comments about Lane being a kind person. Not as inmpressed by Jim's comment about Vincenzo. Something about being a strong personality? (Can't remember his exact words and can't be bothered going back to see what he said). You can be a great business person without being overbearing and obnoxious. Time will tell I guess as to how the newbies mesh with the oldies. 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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I'll give them some more time to get settled and see how the new dragons work in. We now basically have 2 Elder dragons (Jim and Arlene) and 4 younger ones. The Elder ones have the money depths to back a lot, but the younger ones seem more willing to team up to snipe some good deals. 

For the frozen pops I knew she was going to go with Arlene as soon as she made an offer; her comment about loving Arlene from the beginning was prime fishing material and hooked Arlene right away. 

 

The rest of the pitches I missed (was doing other things). 

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5 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

And as much as I like Arlene, I am a little tired of her getting annoyed when she gets underbid. If others want to give more/and or get less of a percentage, than the ask, that is up to them. She comes off as a sore loser.

I was trying to figure out what she meant.  Arlene had offered the guy the amount of money that he needed to close the round, so presumably, they might be able to advance on their next phase of scaling. I think she was upset that they had made an offer that would slow the process down and made it sweet enough to refuse hers.

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59 minutes ago, AEMom said:

I was trying to figure out what she meant.  Arlene had offered the guy the amount of money that he needed to close the round, so presumably, they might be able to advance on their next phase of scaling. I think she was upset that they had made an offer that would slow the process down and made it sweet enough to refuse hers.

Arlene has made the statement before, when she has been undercut and in particular when another dragon gives the pitcher more money and or for less of a percentage. She has said it several times in other seasons, including last season. 

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7 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Arlene has made the statement before, when she has been undercut and in particular when another dragon gives the pitcher more money and or for less of a percentage. She has said it several times in other seasons, including last season. 

But when she says that, is she just upset at losing the deal or is there more to it? I checked her Twitter so see if she might elaborate,  but there was nothing. 

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On 9/22/2018 at 5:32 AM, AEMom said:

But when she says that, is she just upset at losing the deal or is there more to it? I checked her Twitter so see if she might elaborate,  but there was nothing. 

I believe in previous years she has said this even if she was not the person who was being undercut. It appears to just annoy her when another dragon gives the pitcher, as I have said, more money or take less of a percentage that the ask. Which makes no sense to me because it is the pitcher who comes up with the ask. If another dragon thinks the product is worth more to them to secure a deal,  or they are willing to take less of a percentage to get the deal, so be it. 

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Arlene spent a lot of years on the step with Kevin. I think she's got a little of his "look out for US gene". However, I also sense that she thinks the deal should be won or lost based on the merit of the Dragon (with a lot of confidence in her own merit) and that undercutting is not playing along those lines. And thus is annoyed that others aren't playing by her (unwritten) rules.

She should know better. Especially when Michelle asked to join and was denied. Of course there's going to be a competing offer.

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4 really strong businesses for the premier. I'm sure they can't stay that strong all season but I wonder if they'll go back to the goofball pitches, including with the quickie segments. Those were always a fun part of the Canadian version that made it unique.

Edited by Amarsir

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The Gong show segments have been gone for a few seasons now, so other than special eps when they need filler (like the XMas and Returner eps), I doubt we'll see Gong segments again sadly. :(

 

Maybe we should start writing the CBC and seeing if we can get them brought back? 

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8 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

The Gong show segments have been gone for a few seasons now, so other than special eps when they need filler (like the XMas and Returner eps), I doubt we'll see Gong segments again sadly. :(

I miss them too.  TV is expensive to produce so I wonder if the producers have cut back on bringing pitchers like this on the show and only have a few every now and then and include them as part of the regular show.  Perhaps the Dragons have also requested to have more "serious" pitches as well.

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For me, the crazy thing about the rowing/spinning classes were that it would be so simple for another fitness studio to start the same kind of classes.  As for the app?  I just don't see it.  Glad that he's doing well, but it's not an investable business.

The dog bowls are a good idea, but the problem was the valuation.  It's true.  You buy the bowl once, you might buy a second one for a different location, but that's it.  That's where they lost the deal - on valuation.

I'm glad that the knife handle guy got a deal.  He knew his limitations, was looking for a partner. Good for him - he's a hustler.

The peanut butter lady did well.  I don't know that I would spend $11 on peanut butter.  I would honestly have to taste it to see the difference.

The crystal jewelry: I would have to see her stuff close up.  There was zero discussion on the price point of the jewelry - is it costume or real metals?  One thing I've noticed,  is that costume gold always looks fake - you can fake the silver, but not the gold - and that gold looked fake to me on TV.   I did not really understand why Arlene was against TSC.  It actually seemed like a good vehicle to me to display her stuff and talk about the stories, etc.  Online is a good way too for sure.

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Was Sili-knife guy holding the knife right for chopping? I'm not sure he was. To my (non-expert) view he was holding too far back with the heel of the hand. But I could be wrong.

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I did not really understand why Arlene was against TSC.  It actually seemed like a good vehicle to me to display her stuff and talk about the stories, etc.

I suspect it's about the logistics of TV sales. You need certain pricing, inventory, and exclusivity promises and I could see that being in conflict. However, she could probably start out on TSC and then shift to online for the long run so Arlene was probably a little too closed off as well.

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Regarding last week's episode, the most interesting thing to me was when Arlene said that last year she could not have imagined her and Manjit being in the same tribe (as in friends). Very interesting acknowledgement that they did not get along, as it was pretty obvious on screen. They do seem better this year (and less if any eye rolling from Manjit) so it will be interesting to see how well they play together in the remaining episodes. 

Still not really liking Vincenzo but I do like Lane. 

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Yeah Lane seems easygoing. Arlene had no problem making a joint offer with him this episode too, and she often says "no" to those. Vincenzo has a forceful personality that I could see getting to people, but he seems a decent guy and a more varied investor than I would have guessed.

I wish I knew more about what the Car generator is actually doing. You can get a power inverter for $20-30 but it's not going to run anything that heavy duty. I would have figured the alternator was the limiting factor.

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As gimmicks go, "behind the scenes" wasn't bad. I'm glad they didn't stretch to full hour with no pitches, but there was enough insight to be worth seeing.

The "Booty Building Box" woman was really annoying to me, but I'm not her target audience. Michelle certainly seemed to enjoy her presence, to the point of getting in a butt slap that I would never get away with.

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Episode 5, "Up in Smoke" special:

 

I predicted Jim wouldn't be comfortable in a marijuana pitch, but I was a little surprised Vince had the same issue. (not sure why he didn't want in on the impairment detection device though). Amateurish pitches but that's ok - I like the goofy stuff.

The voiceovers enjoyed their puns a bit too much, but I admit I did laugh seeing Jim in a gas mask at the end.

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5 hours ago, Amarsir said:

I predicted Jim wouldn't be comfortable in a marijuana pitch

ugh Jim's moralistic view of the marijuana pitchers was gross.  Jim....who will sit there and drink alcohol and ogle women in bikinis. Jim said he used to put "guys like him in jail" to the young guy selling the home grow kit.  Yes Jim, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM!  Meanwhile I wonder how many of his own cronies Jim gave a pass to who were drinking and driving or sexually assaulting women. Such a hypocrite.

I don't know anything about Vince so not sure why he was so judgey.  He didn't want in on the impairment device because he thought it would cost too much to have the scientific evidence to fight the inevitable  challenges to it in court,

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The Canadian Senate only voted 56-30, which is plenty of opposition. And of course in the US marijuana is still on Schedule 1 under Federal law. So outdated as it is, we can't be too surprised people are sticking to their old prejudices. When I'm 77 I'll probably have a couple things I'm stubborn about too.

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The blind gizmo was pretty cool. That would be especially handy for hard to reach blinds.

I was with Lane for the vaping caffeine.  How can you use vaping and healthy in the same sentence? 

The playhouses were nice but really expensive.  They were planning on selling them for $1,200. They were way too early to be pitching. 

The plant music was weird and interesting,  but I'd never pay $90 for the hardware needed to listen to a plant play music.

The Stufff lube was interesting.  Jim took a big chunk of the company, but they can get the oil for free through Boston Pizza, I would guess.

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The Playhouses were offering way too early. I got the feeling they might have been piggy backing off some HGTV success maybe and either were just looking for more publicity or just didn't realize how much they had to prepare to show up. 

 

The lube product also seemed like it showed up too early, but they were lucky. I do wonder how, even with a fast food chain backing, how scaleable their product is. Shrinking the container is a no brainer; most people will use it once or twice, then forget about it until they need it again a year later. At which point you want them to come back to buy more, not use a year old product that may have settled/gone bad/clogged up devices/etc... 

 

I'm not really interested in the "plant music" beyond simple curiousity; but 90$/device does feel quite high. Knock it down to 50$/device (per plant) and maybe a 10$/instrument supplement might work. Then again the people who might be looking for that are also the type who may not balk at 100$/devices too. 

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Lane's really growing on me. He reminds me a bit of David Chilton in that he's very down-to-earth and ready to speak his mind skeptically, yet also willing to go in on interesting stuff and happy to split deals.

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Yay quickfires are back! Surgically implanting a dome in your head to pull the skin back is a new competitor for dumbest pitch they've ever had.

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Crickets as food are a tough sell people have been working on for years. But selling it for pets is pretty clever. I liked their pitch a lot.

I said that Lane reminded me a bit of former-dragon David. Vince is maybe competing for the Kevin role. 

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19 minutes ago, Amarsir said:

Vince is maybe competing for the Kevin role. 

I think that Manjit has been the Kevin lately.

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2 hours ago, AEMom said:

I think that Manjit has been the Kevin lately.

She does have that "Go home and stop this, you're awful" message that Kevin liked to deliver. But Kevin was the self-proclaimed expert in all things and Vince is closer than Manjit in that role.

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5 hours ago, Amarsir said:

But Kevin was the self-proclaimed expert in all things and Vince is closer than Manjit in that role.

That is true. 

So Manjit is the meanie and Vince is the know-it-all.

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I think that the editing was weird this week because there were times when the dragons were getting annoyed with the pitchers and I wasn't quite sure why.

The scuba mask looked good, I would like to try that out. Arlene gets upset that it's a side hustle,  but no problem with the oil rig bag guy who was also still working his day job. I don't get it.  Both the scuba mask and the oil rig bag looked smart.

The Hire Up app seemed interesting. She seemed like a smart cookie who could get things done. 

The shirt collar guys was an example of the weird editing, because all of a sudden, the deals were being rescinded and they were just asking if dragons wanted to come together on deals, something we see all the time. I'm sure that there was more going on there.

I was a bit surprised that the neck stick guys chose Manjit over Jim.

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On 11/17/2018 at 11:25 AM, AEMom said:

The shirt collar guys was an example of the weird editing, because all of a sudden, the deals were being rescinded and they were just asking if dragons wanted to come together on deals, something we see all the time. I'm sure that there was more going on there.

I felt like it was something we see on Shark Tank a lot - someone wants to get the perfect deal so they stall just long enough to annoy away all the offers. Manjit was being heroic to undercut and support the retail path (which I agree makes sense), but he . I also suspect he didn't quite understand the math of a royalty, because he was negotiating hard to go from 40 to 35% equity but didn't push back on the royalty until Arlene told him to.

Manjit has really been pushing her manufacturing expertise so if that's how the neck guys were focused I'm not surprised they took her over sales-oriented Jim. I'm not sure it's right, but I'm not shocked.

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1 hour ago, Amarsir said:

Manjit has really been pushing her manufacturing expertise so if that's how the neck guys were focused I'm not surprised they took her over sales-oriented Jim. I'm not sure it's right, but I'm not shocked.

I just honestly think that it will be a bigger seller amongst professional sports people than the general public, hence choosing Jim.  But good on them if they can do well with Manjit.

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On 10/26/2018 at 9:24 PM, AEMom said:

The Stufff lube was interesting.  Jim took a big chunk of the company, but they can get the oil for free through Boston Pizza, I would guess.

Is it really free though? They kept playing it up like any grease not turned into lubricant is thrown down the drain. But don't restaurants already sell their used grease to recyclers. They did on an episode of The Simpsons from 20 years ago and I don't think the shows writers completely made up that plotline.

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12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Is it really free though? They kept playing it up like any grease not turned into lubricant is thrown down the drain. But don't restaurants already sell their used grease to recyclers. They did on an episode of The Simpsons from 20 years ago and I don't think the shows writers completely made up that plotline.

I'm saying for free in this case, because since Jim owns a big chunk of the Stufff company, he will probably supply the Boston Pizza oil for free (or super-cheap) to the Stufff company.

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Wow, they hated that snow brush. Poor guy was probably wishing he'd ended up on a gong show segment. I wouldn't personally buy one but I didn't think it was crazy. \

A little bit of snark from the editors, cutting to Jim every time the gift card lady mentioned chains vs "premium restaurants". 

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On 11/27/2018 at 8:45 AM, AEMom said:

I'm saying for free in this case, because since Jim owns a big chunk of the Stufff company, he will probably supply the Boston Pizza oil for free (or super-cheap) to the Stufff company.

I get what you are saying it just bugges me that they set it up as if the grease was jist waste they are recovering. But it is more like if they said they developed a pepperoni based lubricant. You wouldn't expect Jim to say he has all the pepperoni they want for free in his kitchen. Because pepperoni they use is stuff they can't sell on a pizza.

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11 hours ago, Amarsir said:

Wow, they hated that snow brush. Poor guy was probably wishing he'd ended up on a gong show segment. I wouldn't personally buy one but I didn't think it was crazy. \

A little bit of snark from the editors, cutting to Jim every time the gift card lady mentioned chains vs "premium restaurants". 

I confess, I hated that brush too. I am already juggling car and house keys and now a brush key? Really, there is no, problem.  Your brush is right where you always put it, it takes 5 seconds to brush away any errant snow that lands on your seat. Nobody wants to strap that cheap ass thing to their car. 120K so far. Yikes!

That was funny with Jim for the restaurant. The restaurant she used as an example,  Damas, I've been there once, and it was one of the most expensive meals I've ever had, but man, the food was good.

I'm surprised how many Dragons were unaware of the problem of too much snow on the roof. Good for him, I liked him.

The vegan meat seemed interesting,  and she's got to get the price down on the not-Play-doh. People will pay more for a premium product,  but not 5X more.

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On 11/8/2018 at 8:51 PM, Ciarrai said:

I was dying laughing at all of their reactions to the essential oil tooth serum lady. Such a load of quackery.

True, although I had to laugh at the Dragons (especially Manjit) for saying they couldn't buy into it without scientific back up, considering they were practically fighting over that stupid quantum entanglement device last season.

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I'm glad the snow guy got a deal. His demo wasn't really set up well at all, but the video helped sell it. I suspect the live demo was something the producers foisted onto him as a space filler, since everyone went along with it. 

 

The snowbrush guy was probably roasted a bit too much, but I agree, it's a solution looking for a problem. When I brush my car off, I just use my hand to clear the door jamb basically so no snow will fall in, then get my brush and finish off the rest of the car. If the brush is hanging out the back of the trunk, it's still going to have to be handbrushed away to access it; and then it's going to be dirty snowy most of the rest of the time from the splash and roadspray. 

 

Glad we had another gong show segment. I think the producers are starting to realize we like the Gong show parts, but may not always have enough pitches to cover it. 

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An ep with a Gong show component. The Kid Hamster feeder ( a dad invention), breast glove pockets and something I've already forgotten. :) 

The last one seemed to be a good deal in the end. They should probably have grabbed Jim instead, but Arlenne did convince them to stay in. Their product does seem to have potential; I could see big malls buying a set so they can provide it for store changeovers, and other contractors buying it to have it on hand. 

The seed planter has potential, but I see it in the dollar store within a few years. Still, home gardening is growing and if they make an infomercial/some youtube videos, they will probably do well. 

The forkula seems like a nice gimmick device, Maybe restaurants can provide it with the launch of a saucy dish or desert. 

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Arlene is really the heavyweight on the team. She often wins head-to-heads and often gets her demand for a higher percentage. I was particularly surprised the Eyebrows folks went with her instead of franchising Jim's way. He clearly knows his stuff in that regard.

How did Lane become the beauty care guinea pig this season? Someone behind the camera is getting a lot of laughs out of that.

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Gimmick themes are silly but they generally don't get in the way. I didn't care for the family cheering squad though, even though it probably didn't take up too much screen time. 

I like hot sauce but I can't see the point in custom ordering one. There are just so many varieties already. However, a custom label could make this a nice gift item so they've got that going for them.

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Honestly, I will never understand buying those containers of chemical frostings in the store and this one at $10 a pop is crazy expensive.  It is really, really easy to make frosting.  All you need is butter, icing sugar, and vanilla.  If you want chocolate flavour then add cocoa powder.  That's it!

The baseball thing looked cool, but I am not their target market.

The custom phone covers and wallets, etc. were really nice.  They seemed really hard on him.

I don't like hot sauce, so I cannot get excited about this one at all.

Halibut House.  I was a little shocked by their valuation since so many of the pitchers were way off on this, but they are already doing really well and I liked them and am glad that they got a deal.

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I had tears in my eyes when the bra lady got her deal. I hope it becomes a billion dollar business. 

I sometimes have  issues with Jim, but I appreciate that when he sees someone doing good (like the bra lady) he'll offer them the money without gouging them.

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Another ep with a Gong section, yeah! I think they only put it in towards the end of the season when they've built up enough gong-pitches. 

The table deal was a weird one; felt like we didn't see the full pitch, but I have seen it in stores before. I think Jim's deal was a bit much, but the other deal, while probably better, came too late. They should have presented the deal before the team went back to discuss it. 

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On 3/2/2019 at 5:39 PM, Taeolas said:

The table deal was a weird one; felt like we didn't see the full pitch, but I have seen it in stores before. I think Jim's deal was a bit much, but the other deal, while probably better, came too late. They should have presented the deal before the team went back to discuss it. 

Manjit seems to be growing into the villain role a bit. I don't mean that in that I dislike her, but that she's using the Kevin approach of maximizing the deal for herself. I was really surprised the furniture folks took the deal with both of them. To me that was the 3rd best choice. But some people come in thinking they know what they want and it's as much advice as possible.

I thought they were a bit unfair to the heating packets. It's an exothermic reaction hot enough to boil water. Of course there are inedible chemicals! However, I do agree that pitching it for camping is a mistake. I wouldn't want to carry disposable plastic and I sure don't want the risk of a packet activating while it's in my pack.

Shocking to me that alternative "flesh tones" are still that hard to find. If so I'm very glad for that woman solving the issue. But I wonder if it wasn't a mistake to give away 40% so early. 

On 3/1/2019 at 7:20 PM, sadiegirl said:

I sometimes have  issues with Jim, but I appreciate that when he sees someone doing good (like the bra lady) he'll offer them the money without gouging them.

He's been doing that a lot this season. More than anyone else he'll just say "I'll give you what you asked for."

What's your issues with him?

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On 3/6/2019 at 5:38 AM, Amarsir said:

Manjit seems to be growing into the villain role a bit. I don't mean that in that I dislike her, but that she's using the Kevin approach of maximizing the deal for herself. I was really surprised the furniture folks took the deal with both of them. To me that was the 3rd best choice. But some people come in thinking they know what they want and it's as much advice as possible.

I was also surprised that they gave away so much equity.  Manjit has been the new Kevin for a while now.

On 3/6/2019 at 5:38 AM, Amarsir said:

I thought they were a bit unfair to the heating packets. It's an exothermic reaction hot enough to boil water. Of course there are inedible chemicals! However, I do agree that pitching it for camping is a mistake. I wouldn't want to carry disposable plastic and I sure don't want the risk of a packet activating while it's in my pack.

I think that the problem is (which bothered me too) that these chemicals are alongside food.  Does the food absorb these chemicals while the packet is combusting?  Also, they were right about the fact that people these days don't want to cook something in disposable plastic.

On 3/6/2019 at 5:38 AM, Amarsir said:

Shocking to me that alternative "flesh tones" are still that hard to find. If so I'm very glad for that woman solving the issue. But I wonder if it wasn't a mistake to give away 40% so early. 

He's been doing that a lot this season. More than anyone else he'll just say "I'll give you what you asked for."

What's your issues with him?

She gave away a lot of her company, but she seemed happy with her decision, so I guess that's all that really counts.  I am also surprised that in this day and age that different flesh tones are still so hard to come by.

The gong show urns for the pets were nice, and I think that she might have been ok had she stopped there, but making jewelry and clothing with the fur of the dead pets was.... weird. 

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