Dragon's Den (Canada) - General Discussion

[Kel Varnsen]

So the gelato guy says he is making 3 million in revenue while only being in Alberta and the other prairie provinces, and Manjit says his business isn't scalable? Sometimes I think she just isn't very smart.

[Taeolas]

58 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So the gelato guy says he is making 3 million in revenue while only being in Alberta and the other prairie provinces, and Manjit says his business isn't scalable? Sometimes I think she just isn't very smart.

She may be thinking of other players in the gelato market across Canada; this guy may be the big guy on the prairies; but to scale upward, he needs to beat off the big guy in Ontario, the big guy in BC, the big guy in Quebec and especially the big guy in Toronto.  That may be what she was thinking about when she was thinking of expanding and scaling upward.

[Kel Varnsen]

17 hours ago, Taeolas said:

She may be thinking of other players in the gelato market across Canada; this guy may be the big guy on the prairies; but to scale upward, he needs to beat off the big guy in Ontario, the big guy in BC, the big guy in Quebec and especially the big guy in Toronto.  That may be what she was thinking about when she was thinking of expanding and scaling upward.

I get what your saying and that would make sense. But the way she explained it sounded less like "it would be difficult to scale based on competition" and more like "i don't understand how to scale your business".

[Amarsir]

That container house guy certainly had one of the worst pitches ever. I think it's worse than other disasters because the business itself might not be a terrible idea. But he couldn't even answer a direct question. "What does your business do?" "Michelle you're a millennial, and millennials care about the environment." "Can we see that manual?" "Millions of containers exist in the world." I wouldn't have blamed Wek for physically leaving.

I really like seeing Michelle's knowledge on any app pitches. $2 for a not-particularly-targeted survey seems high to me though. I always wondered about those kinds of businesses: is someone who's watching an ad for 25 cents really likely to go spend $50 on pizza? Yes, I have apps for coupons. But I generally know what I want and expect the process to be as smooth as possible.

Regardless, I think it's funny that she had an excuse to bow out and the others were so anxious about not having to bid against her that they ignored her warning of how saturated the space already is.

 

I'm also loving the Wek and Manjit teamup. 3 times in 1 episode they made a combined offer, even if it didn't win for them like they seemed to expect.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Amarsir

[rcc]

That container guy was the most smug and arrogant I've ever seen on this show. Manjit was disgusted and he left with the same stupid grin on his face. The guy was weird.

[rcc]

I always like when a former deal comes back on the show. That coffee deal with Arlene and Bruce did very well. We saw Bruce again but no Arlene. I still miss her.

[Amarsir]

Michelle's face when the humidifier ended up with a bidding war. That was hilarious.

This was the most Shark Tank episode of DD I think we've seen. Everything was an existing retail product with a (justifiably) higher valuation. We even saw a royalty deal and an "expiry date on my offer". (Both from Wek.) It was good, but one of the things I like about Dragon's Den is that it gets a little more wild at times.  Still, as special episodes go I'll take this over another kid-focused one.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 14/10/2016 at 1:55 AM, Amarsir said:

I really like seeing Michelle's knowledge on any app pitches. $2 for a not-particularly-targeted survey seems high to me though. I always wondered about those kinds of businesses: is someone who's watching an ad for 25 cents really likely to go spend $50 on pizza? Yes, I have apps for coupons. But I generally know what I want and expect the process to be as smooth as possible.

With that I was really wondering how hard it would be for some computer programmer type to come up with a program that just automatically watches ads and completes surveys all day? I mean bots that buy tickets online are out there.

[rcc]

The worse pitch came from the chiropractor and his ball. I was embarrassed for him.

Another whatever happened with the deal with David showing up and no Arlene. Is Arlene completely done with this show? It looks like it to me.

[Amarsir]

8 hours ago, rcc said:

The worse pitch came from the chiropractor and his ball. I was embarrassed for him.

Another whatever happened with the deal with David showing up and no Arlene. Is Arlene completely done with this show? It looks like it to me.

I didn't think the pitch was that bad. If his valuation wasn't so high he might have gotten a deal.

Good eye on Arlene being absent, but I still think we might see her on a solo follow-up. Much of the appeal of a followup is getting more airtime for your business and for that they don't need both Dragons. But for something she invested in alone, maybe. Or you could be right, we'll see.

[Taeolas]

I don't think Arlene is completely persona non grata with CBC.  In their article on Dave Broadfoot's death, her tweet is the first one they show. Looking at her twitter feed, she has some other CBC comments and shoutouts for other projects as well. Plus she still describes herself as a dragon in her twitter description.

Quote

Human, Mom, Grandmom, Canadian, Entrepreneur, Honourary Captain RCN, Investor/VC, Dragon. Living my life like it's the only one I have.

So she probably wasn't available for the followup, or decided to bow out of the deal after all; but will probably show up for other updates eventually. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Taeolas

[The Crazed Spruce]

She does Dragon-related RBC ads, so she hasn't quite cut ties to the show.

[Kel Varnsen]

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 2:35 PM, Amarsir said:

Michelle's face when the humidifier ended up with a bidding war. That was hilarious.

 

Michelle's comments during the humidifier pitch seemed really stupid to the point where they made her come off like kind of a moron. Sure the thing is not going to increase the humidity in your room to the kind of levels you might want when you are sick. But I think it would work awesome for home comfort in cold Canadian winters. When I first moved from the west coast to Ottawa I had a hard time adjusting to how dry it got in the winter, especially my nose and sinuses. My house now has a humidifier built into the furnace, but in some of the earlier places lived something like that would have been great.

[Taeolas]

I'm really surprised Jim made a deal with the Leak company this week. The business owner clearly has some issues with foreign/immigrant workers. I don't think I've ever seen the dragons cool off to a deal so quickly. Still, the guy only had eyes for Jim anyway (due to the Mr Lube experience I'm sure) and Jim did seem to see the potential; I'm sure he understood that the business was working with garages, not selling directly to customers. 

[Amarsir]

Yeah that was really uncomfortable phrasing. He might have simply meant "When creating a new brand it's important that everyone express themselves properly" but it just came off as "I don't work with immigrants no matter how much money they offer!"

Anyone remember what happened to the parkour gym a few years ago? Total deja vu during the obstacle race presentation.

[UsernameFatigue]

I thought Manjit's reaction to the Leak owner was much more uncomfortable that what the fellow said. I don't in the least think it is unreasonable to want those involved with your product to  have a firm grasp of the English language and be able to communicate well. Being a hard worker isn't always enough, depending on the job. I am glad that Jim did not let Manjit's OTT political correctness interfere with him making a deal with the owner. I might add that I have frequented both Boston Pizza and Mr Lube over the years and have yet to meet an employee who could not communicate well.

In addition Michelle annoyed me when she twice announced after the deal was made that she was not yet out. Who cares? Just because you sit back and often wait until the end to speak Michelle doesn't mean the pitcher has to wait for you to bow out or make an offer. Jim was far and away the best fit for the Leak owner so why would he not take Jim's offer without waiting for Michelle, who as far as I can see would have little to nothing to offer in this space.

[rcc]

I think we lost the show on the CBC. No show on right now and on the tv guide it says Dragon's Den on CBAT on Friday. Anyone know what happened to the show airing on the CBC. I don't get CBAT.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Just checked the listings, and from the looks of it, there's a clip episode airing next week. 

[Amarsir]

DD's twitter said earlier today that it's off this week and next week is a special "Why didn't I think of that?" episode.

[rcc]

Manjit was in the deal making mood in last night's episode. Some great ideas and she made the best offers. Also her company's beer and root beer were featured.

A Manjit episode.

[Amarsir]

Would have been a better theme than "why didn't I think of that".

[rcc]

That clothing business spokesperson was arrogant. He had two offers and proceeded to ask for more money. Sometimes the business owners just don't get it.

Jim gave that woman a deal and she was so happy. Nice to see someone being grateful for the deals in the den.

Manjit wanted to buy that business for $4 million but he took the other deal. She's been very aggressive lately.

[Amarsir]

This was a good episode. I even enjoyed the disaster robot. That guy would have been hard-pressed to get a deal in 1986, let alone 30 years later.

I didn't think the clothing line was a bad idea, but if they wouldn't even give up 20% in return for some much-needed help then they're in trouble.  And speaking of trouble, I really enjoyed the follow-up to a no-deal from 7 years ago. It's nice to see those being done for viewer interest and not purely to get more advertising time for the investment. (*cough* shark tank *cough*)

Manjit made a very interesting offer but there was too much other interest. If her buyout was the only one, I think he might have been swayed. But who would turn down a chance to partner with 4 Dragons? The connections alone.  That said, I wonder how much of that will survive due diligence. Multi-investor deals are more likely to fail and some of his claims like "you can swim with them" seem a little too good.

Edit: Yup. Phazon deal stalls

Edited November 25, 2016 by Amarsir

[rcc]

I hear you on Shark Tank. I watched that show once and didn't like it. Dragon's Den is much better and the dragons are businessmen who don't have a mean streak. Kevin fits right in over there.

I hope Phazon is successful. He seemed like a nice guy who deserves success.

[rcc]

I felt bad for the woman with the ice cream business. They shot her down pretty hard especially Manjit criticizing her purchase of the warehouse. But her ridiculous valuation and deal didn't help her at all. Over and over again people screw up their valuations in their pitch to the dragons. You would think they watch the show beforehand and not want to make the same mistake.

[Amarsir]

On 12/1/2016 at 2:55 PM, rcc said:

I felt bad for the woman with the ice cream business. They shot her down pretty hard especially Manjit criticizing her purchase of the warehouse. But her ridiculous valuation and deal didn't help her at all. Over and over again people screw up their valuations in their pitch to the dragons. You would think they watch the show beforehand and not want to make the same mistake.

There's bad valuations and then there's "zero return". She clearly doesn't understand what a royalty is and instead of owning up to that she acted like her offer was crafted to by a team of experts to generate herself an advantageous deal. I think in another context they might have tried to teach her, but given the challenges of that business with the best flavor being a "loss leader" they didn't want someone whose business math is that bad.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Amarsir

[rcc]

Big mistake for that former model not to take Joe up on his offer for her rock business. He liked it, understood it, and wanted to buy in for his wife who has a passion for crystals. 

The treemote couple back again. Michael and his poems got on my nerves but he did make a deal for the treemote. Surprised by that.

[Taeolas]

I'm surprised the Treemote is still going on. It's not really patentable, and Smartphones are probably going to kill it soonish anyway. 

 

Hell, I have a no-branding "Treemote" that works on 3 outlets; I use it for all my window decorations. One remote, 3 buttons to turn them all on, 3 other buttons to turn it off. That he's expecting to get a million this year isn't too surprising (People will by XMas branding like mad) but it certainly doesn't feel investable. 

 

And yes, the Rock business missed a great oppurtunity to get Joe on board. It probably wouldn't have made it through the post-show checks regardless; but passing on Joe was a mistake. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I wish they would interview the pitchers when they leave the den so they can explain why they accepted one dragon's deal over another's, particularily when there are two or more dragons offering what the pitcher asked for. In two cases tonight pitchers chose Manjit when multiple dragons made the same offer. I thought for sure the snow plow guys would go with Jim, given all of his experience with franchising. I'd love to know why they didn't.

The blonde lady was as dumb as a box of her rocks not to take Joe's deal. And all the talk of what millenials want - I am so sick of pretentious millenials thinking they are special snowflakes. I have nothing against rocks and even like some, but give me flowers any day over a box with four measly little rocks. And calling it a bouquet doesn't make it so.

I also agree with the treemote people that not everyone wants to use their cell for everything. I barely use mine as a phone. I have one tree that has a built in button on the ground to step on to shut off the lights, but the button is so close to the outlet it kind of defeats the purpose. And once we add a few presents under the tree, I am still perching on one foot trying to reach the button. I am going out tomorrow and buying treemotes for my two trees - lol.

Edited to add - I bought the two treemotes, and absolutely love them! They even come with  battery included which is unusual for products that need batteries. Mr Username and I were laughing that we should ask Martha Stewart (the maker of one of our trees) for a refund of $19.99 since the shut off/on foot button on her tree is pretty much useless. Hubby just had hernia surgery so was not able to reach even the button to turn the lites on/ off, so he is pretty happy with them too. So four thumbs up from two baby boomers.

Edited December 9, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[Amarsir]

After the newspaper bouquets on Shark Tank I can see the appeal of a rock set. Joe would have helped, but I also think she just needs a little traditional marketing instead of relying on Gwyneth Paltrow.

Everyone around me is into Amazon Echo. (Or to a lesser extent, Google Now.) $28 for a smart switch and you can say "Alexa, turn on the tree" and not reach under OR search for a remote.  Treemote is unfortunately just at the end of its life cycle. 

[rcc]

NM.

Edited January 6, 2017 by rcc

[rcc]

I like the second chance shows. Except for the first one, not that they were so bad but I can't see where the dragons could make money with them.

[Taeolas]

The LARPers seem to be going on the show for the 'free' promotion as much as anything. They're Live Action MMO'ing now, complete with the microtransactions, and it does seem to be working for them.

A decent show, nice to see them be recognized coming back in. :)

[sadiegirl]

I like Joe but it bothered me when he intimated that it's somehow out of line to counter offer (I don't think that's the right phrase, but hopefully you all know what I mean).  It's a business negotiation.  The dragons can make an offer and the person can see if they can get a better deal.  He made it sound like 'how dare you try to get a better deal, from a dragon, no less', as if the offer a dragon makes is the final word.  Again, I like him, but sometimes it seems he takes this dragon thing too seriously.  Dragon or not, it's a business negotiation, and both sides have the right to negotiate.  Stop taking yourself so seriously.

[rcc]

Joe has a bit of an "air" about him. It's as if he comes from royalty or thinks he does.

[Amarsir]

On 1/11/2017 at 11:15 PM, sadiegirl said:

I like Joe but it bothered me when he intimated that it's somehow out of line to counter offer (I don't think that's the right phrase, but hopefully you all know what I mean).  It's a business negotiation.  The dragons can make an offer and the person can see if they can get a better deal.  He made it sound like 'how dare you try to get a better deal, from a dragon, no less', as if the offer a dragon makes is the final word.  Again, I like him, but sometimes it seems he takes this dragon thing too seriously.  Dragon or not, it's a business negotiation, and both sides have the right to negotiate.  Stop taking yourself so seriously.

It wasn't a counter to him though. My impression was that he was only saying that to add drama for the show's benefit. But I could be wrong.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Arlene Dickenson weighed in on her fellow former Dragon Kevin O'Leary's bid to lead the Conservative Party.

[rcc]

I doubt Arlene will be voting for Kevin. Very candid interview and anyone on the fence about Kevin's candidacy should listen to her. Canada doesn't need the Canadian version of Donald Trump.

[Amarsir]

It's been a while since we had a behind-the-dragons feature. I really liked it, and my only criticism is that we could have used a little more detail on some of the setbacks. (E.g. Manjit's initial failure in the wine industry.)

[rcc]

That cocktail company will make Manjit some money. Good presentation and good product. That rim pitchman gave me a headache. Too much energy and too much ego.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 19/01/2017 at 9:40 PM, Amarsir said:

It's been a while since we had a behind-the-dragons feature. I really liked it, and my only criticism is that we could have used a little more detail on some of the setbacks. (E.g. Manjit's initial failure in the wine industry.)

Interesting that they talked about Manjit and Michelle's setbacks but made no mention of the Joe Fresh factory collapse in Bangladesh which must have been a huge setback for Joe.

I was also curious how much Manjit lost when they changed the beer pricing rules in Ontario to get rid of buck a beer brands. I still remember those crappy Boxer Beer commercials she was in.

Also curious how Michelle raised the money to open the coffee shop.

[Amarsir]

A very opinionated den this week. Those scuff protectors were bad, but was it the worst in the last 2 years? They hated it.  I also liked the fight over "do millennials eat sugar".

But the rideshare app really confused me over the interest. Michelle knows her apps, AND this requires critical mass of both users and drivers to switch. Most importantly, price is not a competitive advantage unless you've also figured out a way to reduce costs. They hadn't. I feel like Jim and Manjit's attitudes were "these are the big thing so I might as well get in on one." Much like how Groupon clones were the thing a few years ago. (No offense to Michelle and SnapSaves.)

[Taeolas]

Even if you ignore the Gong-presentations (I still miss those), the scuff protectors were far from the worst we've seen. Hell the endless Treemotes we get every XMas special would probably be worse than the shoe tape we saw. Then again, maybe it was the valuation issues for packing tape was their issue with it. 

I doubt the Rideshare app will get past due diligence. The market feels like it has matured quickly to Uber, Lyft and everyone else. And with Uber and Lyft grabbing critical mass, no one else can really get in without some strong perk. These guys didn't have it which Michelle caught onto right away. (Not to mention her boggling at the 400k spent just on the app).

[UsernameFatigue]

Who pissed in Joe's cornflakes? Boy was he grumpy. The scuff protectors were far from the worst I have seen in the Den. The one the presenter was wearing was not that bad. And Manjit annoyed when she kept asking if she was supposed to put them on her $800 shoes. No Manjit. If you can afford $800 shoes you just buy new ones when they get scuffed up. I believe the market is people who cannot afford $800 shoes. Sheesh.

Joe was also pissy with regards to the drink mix. As was Michelle who kept telling Manjit not to buy in. Everyone has their own reasons for buying in or not and they need to respect the others' opinions. Which they normally do but this epi, not so much. And all the cross talk regarding sugar was annoying.

The rim guy was obnoxious. I don't know why a few dragons thought he was a good salesman. If he was trying to sell me tires/rims I would walk out just because he is so annoying. I don't know that I ever did know what he was trying to sell as a business model as he was way too busy trying to sell himself. Which he failed miserably at in my books.

And just because it was mentioned here, I have to give a huge shout out to Treemotes! I bought two this past Christmas season, and everytime I used one to shut of my LR tree lites, I gave thanks to the inventors that I did not have to perch precariously on one foot while trying to aviod presents and reach the too-close-to-the-outlet- built-in-floor-button with the other foot to turn on/off the lites. That was a minimum of 80 thanks yous!

[sadiegirl]

Joe was cruel to the shoes woman.  He seems to be pissy quite often these days, because apparently everything has to be done to his specifications and taste.  I agree with him but he could have been a bit more diplomatic.  And they rims guy, yikes.  Would not want to do business with him.  He's quite full of himself. 

And yes, the $800 shoe thing was obnoxious.  We get it.  You have money and see no problem spending a crazy amount on a pair of shoes.  Nothing to brag about, if you ask me.

[sadiegirl]

I really liked Joe when he came on.  But after being so rude last week and now trying to get more equity from 10 year olds (!!!!), I'm wondering what his deal is.  The girls were excited to be doing something, they want to make money so they can donate more socks to homeless shelters, and he wants to negotiate with them.  Michael annoys me to no end, but he tries to do the right thing.  I'm glad he backed out after Joe asked for more equity.

[rcc]

Joe is becoming the Kevin O'Leary of the Dragons.

[aemom]

On 01/02/2017 at 8:50 PM, sadiegirl said:

I really liked Joe when he came on.  But after being so rude last week and now trying to get more equity from 10 year olds (!!!!), I'm wondering what his deal is.  The girls were excited to be doing something, they want to make money so they can donate more socks to homeless shelters, and he wants to negotiate with them.  Michael annoys me to no end, but he tries to do the right thing.  I'm glad he backed out after Joe asked for more equity.

But it wasn't even just Joe. It was Michelle and Jim in on that deal. I was annoyed with them too. I'm glad Michael and Manjit got that deal.

[Amarsir]

I'm glad Wek and Manjit made that deal too, but I really don't know what Joe was thinking. Did he really think their project would become profitable off selling those socks for $14? If so then not only does it seem rude, but it doesn't speak well to his forecasting skills either.

There must have been a difference in strategies that we didn't see. Joe would integrate with his clothing network and try to make a serious run with this as a branding effort and the other 2 would just treat it like a charity. It just doesn't make sense to try for a bigger piece of $0 profit.

 

Do you think the Acco licensing call to Easy Daisies was a coincidence while they happened to be doing a followup? She seemed genuinely surprised, but neither Dragon (Kevin or Jim) appeared in the segment so I'm skeptical either one secretly set up the deal. But it's also unlikely a product that's been status quo for 5 years also gets a big break during this one day of filming.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Amarsir

[Kel Varnsen]

On 07/12/2016 at 8:51 PM, Taeolas said:

And yes, the Rock business missed a great oppurtunity to get Joe on board. It probably wouldn't have made it through the post-show checks regardless; but passing on Joe was a mistake. 

Catching up on some old episodes and the rock lady passing  was pretty bad.

I also didn't get what was special about the snow clearing guys. Their machine with the snow blower behind the truck looks exactly like the same ones every company in Ottawa uses and had used for years. Is that not how plow companies in the rest of Canada work, or is it the Mr. Plow type truck?