S01.E05: In The Palaces Of Crowned Kings

[circumvent]

10 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Considering the survival of humanity is at stake, I will assume they've figured out dietary needs and whatever isn't being provided by food is being supplemented by vitamins or whatever. 

My peeve. Those things take decades to prepare. They wouldn't have time for all this and to choose the ones to go into the hole

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

As for treatment of disabled persons - we've seen nothing that would lead to any assumption of eugenics.  I think that's a leap based on what we know so far. 

That's my speculation. Since they chose the best of the best to make sure the repopulation is successful, a disabled person, or disabled people would trigger eugenicist sentiments. That's just human nature. 

12 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I don't think we have enough information to know if everyone there has a specific function or not.  It's possible that they do, and it would make sense for all adults to be doing something that contributes to society. 

I don't need them to tell me what each person does. I just think it was a lazy approach to have everyone way too relaxed and "normal" in a completely abnormal situation. A production choice, not even a writing one

[General Days]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:54 AM, anniebird said:

812.092 in the Dewey Decimal system is biographies of American playwrights.

I've been looking at some LibraryThing pages, where I got a slightly different result.

Where did you get the "playwrights" detail? Did you use a database or just see it online from other Paradise fans?

Not doubting you. Everything I know about the Dewey Decimal system I learned more than 40 years ago (and it wasn't all that much to begin with, so color me red, if you're a librarian).

I just want to understand, because I thought "812.092" could be a Dewey Decimal number too, so I looked it up.

If there's a free, comprehensive DD lookup online, I don't know where it is. This is what I found from LibraryThing (which only has the numbers of some works).

8 = Literature

81 = American Literature in English

812 = History of American Drama in English

812.09 = History of American Drama in English Now (which I am reading that "now" as meaning current/modern, but I really don't know)

and then 

812.092 = History American Drama in English [Not Set]

And then one book they have catalogued under that number is: Otay! The Billy "Buckwheat" Thomas Story, by William Thomas Jr. (who I think would be Billy Thomas's son, or that's a heck of a coincidence). 

This would leave me to believe 812.092 contains at least History of American Drama in English, and then something like Celebrity Biography. (We've had American playwrights who are/have been famous enough to be categorized as celebrities, so if someone else thought "playwrights" because there was a Tennessee Williams biography with the number, or something, I can see how they reached that conclusion.)

Referenced LibraryThing links:

https://www.librarything.com/mds/812.092

https://www.librarything.com/work/17579368/t/OTAY!-THE-BILLY-"BUCKWHEAT"-THOMAS-STORY

 

Anyhow, just curious, because this is my favorite theory of the cigarette number.

 

On 2/12/2025 at 6:02 AM, marinw said:

Speaking of animals, if there are no insects what is pollinating all the vegetation? You at least need bees. And insects are an excellent source of protein.

 

Some plants are self-pollinating. And mechanical pollination (i.e. manual pollination) is a thing. If they can build a city under a mountain, they may have found a way to cross pollinate those plants that need it. They probably run fans, and maybe even have laborers, or some sort of machine that does the job of the bees (and the wind). Maybe they have bee drones. 

More on pollination: https://plantura.garden/uk/green-living/knowledge/types-of-pollination

Also though, I would expect insects to eventually find a way in, if they haven't already. They had the doors open long enough for 25,000 people to get in, and they've been open again for whatever expeditions to the outside. As an aside, I'll note that I would also expect rats and mice to eventually find a way in, so they might regret not allowing at least cats in the bunker. 

Edited Saturday at 03:50 PM by General Days
To clean up my messes. Again.

[Paloma]

On 2/23/2025 at 4:01 PM, circumvent said:

I don't need them to tell me what each person does. I just think it was a lazy approach to have everyone way too relaxed and "normal" in a completely abnormal situation.

I think the background people seem too relaxed and "normal" to us because we are aware of the disaster that brought them there. But the scenes showing "normal" life take place 3 years after the disaster, when presumably most people have adjusted to the new normal. Not that they've forgotten it, but it's hard to live in a constant state of emotional trauma for 3 years, so most people would probably let themselves accept the new normal since they know what the alternative is. But that acceptance may not go very deep, and they may express their anxiety and fear in the privacy of their homes with people they trust.

A real-life comparison (though not as disastrous or dystopian as this show) might be Israel after the Oct. 7 attacks. (My daughter and her family live there, as well as other relatives and friends.) Initially there was shock and intense grief that affected most Israelis on a daily basis. After some time there was still trauma and grief about the victims of the attacks and the hostages, but people had to resume normal life--going to work and school, shopping, even leisure activities. During the war there have been frequent missile attacks causing people to go to bomb shelters (bomb shelters are all over the place in Israel), but it became sort of part of the routine--go to the bomb shelter and stay there until the all-clear, then resume your normal activities.  (Of course, the situation for Gazans was and is much worse, but that is not comparable to the Paradise story.)

In Paradise after 3 years there is not even an ongoing threat of attacks from outside (that the residents know of), so I can see how they would be able to relax and adjust to the new normal.

[marinw]

3 hours ago, General Days said:

Some plants are self-pollinating. And mechanical pollination (i.e. manual pollination) is a thing. If they can build a city under a mountain, they may have found a way to cross pollinate those plants that need it. They probably run fans, and maybe even have laborers, or some sort of machine that does the job of the bees (and the wind). Maybe they have bee drones. 

This is fascinating! Thank you. Bee drones seem like more trouble than they are worth. Why not just have some real bees? Also, Torabi must realize that pets are an important tool to support people’s emotional health. True, there are robot pets that are used in places like nursing homes, but they are not the same thing. Pets also help children develop their immune system and resistance to allergies. If they can support a bunch of huge electric SUVs, they can manage a few dogs and cats, so long as most are spayed. It does make sense that the people have a vegetarian or vegan diet.

Edited Saturday at 05:31 PM by marinw

[General Days]

1 minute ago, marinw said:

This is fascinating! Thank you. Bee drones seem like more trouble than they are worth. Why not just have some real bees? Also, Torabi must realize that pets are an important tool to support people’s emotional health. True, there are robot pets that are used in places like nursing homes, but they are not the same thing. Pets also help children develop their immune system and resistance to allergies. If they can support a bunch of huge electric SUVs, they can manage a few dogs and cats.

 

I agree with everything you said. They had Torabi note that they didn't bring wildlife, and I can't figure out why they didn't make the bunker something of a "Noah's Ark."

I doubt they have bee drones. That was mostly a pun on drone bees. 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Not that they've forgotten it, but it's hard to live in a constant state of emotional trauma for 3 years, so most people would probably let themselves accept the new normal since they know what the alternative is.

Real trauma does not lessen just because time goes by. I do get your point and still, I wish there was a line or two about how does Sinatra and her posse keep the people from going off the rails. We did see a little bit about that when they could see that they were in a hole. But fact is, they know that, they might try to fool themselves in order to cope, but there are, certainly, moments of breaks, people who go a bit too anxious. How are those situations dealt with. The writers could have thrown a line or two addressing this, since the extras are not going to act, and another storyline would take too much time of a short season.

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

After some time there was still trauma and grief about the victims of the attacks and the hostages, but people had to resume normal life--going to work and school, shopping, even leisure activities

Related to my reply above, this example shows the reality. A society that doesn't know anymore what solidarity means, a society that woke up to the fact that they closed themselves in their privilege, without really considering the people most of them call enemies. Not the leaders, but the regular people. The society in that place believed, maybe still does, that what happened to them in unacceptable, even if has been happening a few miles from their houses, and that type of tragedy and oppression is seen as normal when it happens to other people.

This type of awakening is one thing missing in the series. But maybe the second season will address this somehow. Dan Fogelman seems to come to shows and the writers room with the ending of the story already planned, just needing the writers to get there. That's how he did This is Us, so maybe he knows how he wants to end this one already

[Mindthinkr]

18 hours ago, marinw said:

they can manage a few dogs and cats,

As much as I’d love to see the people have the opportunity to have pets, some, like cats, are obligate carnivores. If the people have learned to be vegan or vegetarian, then I don’t think they have the ability or resources to grow livestock. I fail to see how they’d be able to furnish meat for their pets. 

[marinw]

5 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I fail to see how they’d be able to furnish meat for their pets. 

Lucy looks healthy. She must have gotten used to eating fake meat.

[SoMuchTV]

7 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

As much as I’d love to see the people have the opportunity to have pets, some, like cats, are obligate carnivores. If the people have learned to be vegan or vegetarian, then I don’t think they have the ability or resources to grow livestock. I fail to see how they’d be able to furnish meat for their pets. 

Well, if they could stock two football fields-worth of alcohol, it seems like they could have set aside space for a few cases of pet food.  Or canned tuna and Spam, for that matter.  But, priorities...!