S01.E04 (BBC/D+): 73 Yards

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, isalicat said:

I just googled this and can't find any evidence that this is true...I would be very interested to learn more about this as I am under the impression that a private citizen could not possibly obtain an actual nuclear bomb (and I think it is against the law in the U.S. and Britain to possess fissionable materials even).

It may have been apocryphal although I remember it clearly. I will remove it. However there are numerous articles about the black market in bombs. There is no doubt in my mind you could do it given money and a desire to do so and some amount of leverage or contacts. 

Edited May 30 by Affogato

[tkc]

Not revealing what old Ruby says reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch about the funniest joke in the world — the one they weaponize against the Nazis in World War II by translating each word into German using a different translator (one person gets two words by accident and has to be hospitalized). We never find out what the joke is, which is just as well, since we’d die laughing.

Maybe RTD was concerned if we found out what was said, we’d run away screaming from our TVs!

Edited May 31 by tkc

[jacehan]

We know at least 61 years pass when we switch to Old Ruby, but it does see, like the scene of her dying is some time after that. Could it be 12 more years, for a total of 73?

[Lantern7]

I finally watched the episode. I don’t think I can add anything that hasn’t already been said. Lots of spookiness with political intrigue mixed in. Also, snow. Always with the snow.

Where did the Doctor go at the beginning? Did he encounter the old day and get spooked off from Ruby? There are probably a hole of story holes, but that’s the one I’m most interested in thinking about.

[DanaK]

11 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I finally watched the episode. I don’t think I can add anything that hasn’t already been said. Lots of spookiness with political intrigue mixed in. Also, snow. Always with the snow.

Where did the Doctor go at the beginning? Did he encounter the old day and get spooked off from Ruby? There are probably a hole of story holes, but that’s the one I’m most interested in thinking about.

My initial guess is he got disappeared by the spirits as punishment for breaking the circle. But I’ve seen a good theory that his disappearance was related to Ruby reading the scroll that read “I miss you”, so he went away and she missed him and was unable to get help from him as part of her punishment for reading the scrolls

[DanaK]

7-day figures: 4.06 million viewers, 12th for the week. That puts it slightly above the "Space Babies" premiere on viewers and slightly below on chart rank

[Kite]

I don't think there's anything literal that would cause Ruby's loving mum to turn on her like that, and say she was tainted even at birth. Or the trained soldiers to run away and stoic Kate to reject Ruby. Whatever they heard, it had a full psychic force behind it to get away from her, to blame her for every kind of badness they ever experienced. I've encountered this sort of thing a lot in old spooky northern European genre/folk fiction - liminality over literalness. The unspoken and implied has an incredibly heavy atmosphere and you have to keep up with your imagination. Magic does not have formulaic rules like science. So idk I didn't have any trouble with that. 

I'm choosing to believe the Welsh pub people were under the magic influence/sincere at some point when talking, or at least the old lady was. Two things at once being simultaneously true. Liminality. 

I am a bit "meh" on the ending with Ruby becoming the old woman, it just wasn't quite emotionally full circle for me. 

I also thought the "not only does he want to blow up the world, he's a domestic abuser ooooooo" was a bit ... ummm, like, domestic abusers are everywhere, completely everyday people. Also, if he's actually insane and wants to literally go nuclear on everything, I would have appreciated actually seeing something in that. Instead, I saw your average fascist, which is a bit different. They tend towards self-preservation. 

Edited June 3 by Kite

[lovett1979]

13 minutes ago, Kite said:

I also thought the "not only does he want to blow up the world, he's a domestic abuser ooooooo" was a bit ... ummm, like, domestic abusers are everywhere, completely everyday people. Also, if he's actually insane and wants to literally go nuclear on everything, I would have appreciated actually seeing something in that. Instead, I saw your average fascist, which is a bit different. They tend towards self-preservation. 

I think the politician was just your average fascist. He was not an evil entity, he was not "Mad Jack", he was not released by the breaking of the fairy circle. He was just a regular evil politician/sexual predator like we have today. But Ruby THOUGHT he was her cause (as did we). She thought getting rid of him was the purpose of the Old Woman and that, once she got rid of him, the Old Woman would vanish. But she didn't. Just like we thought that when Kate and UNIT showed, Ruby would finally have some help. But she didn't. She was just left with her "curse" until her life ran out. I think that devastation and acceptance of her miserable fate was the crux of the episode. Nothing to fix, no way to save the day, no conclusion other than just living, and dying.

[Kite]

1 minute ago, lovett1979 said:

I think the politician was just your average fascist. He was not an evil entity, he was not "Mad Jack", he was not released by the breaking of the fairy circle. He was just a regular evil politician/sexual predator like we have today.

Interesting thought. Though what do you think - the show played up the "he's getting the nuclear codes next week!!" like it was a cliffhanger and Ruby had to intervene fast. I don't understand why it would do that. 

[lovett1979]

5 minutes ago, Kite said:

Interesting thought. Though what do you think - the show played up the "he's getting the nuclear codes next week!!" like it was a cliffhanger and Ruby had to intervene fast. I don't understand why it would do that. 

Well, The Doctor had mentioned him earlier and that he had brought the world to "the brink of nuclear...". And (unfortunately), I can completely see certain politicians today doing just that. Perhaps in the first timeline, he did get the weapons and did almost use them but something else stopped him/them.  I'm not sure why Ruby had to wait for that to make her move. Again, I think Ruby THOUGHT that was her purpose and her big moment, that's why she didn't just automatically eliminate him the moment they met, or the moment she knew he was a predator. Also, we don't know all the rules about the Old Woman, but it seems she always has to be in Ruby's sightline? So it was only at the stadium that she could be 73 yards away from him, but still see him, in order to place the Old Woman next to him.

[Kite]

2 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

Well, The Doctor had mentioned him earlier and that he had brought the world to "the brink of nuclear...". And (unfortunately), I can completely see certain politicians today doing just that. 

I can't see most politicians getting the codes and immediately wanting to launch them. I just can't. Only someone completely insane. The way the UN has been set up with vetos for the major powers to prioritise peace over justice is because everyone knows what would happen if they were launched. The Cuban missile crisis was averted because the major powers actually said: do we want to do this? end it all? and fortunately cooler heads with it. This politician wouldn't have the insanity and machismo of war. It would just be a death wish to launch no pretext and RTD knows that, like me living through the Cold War, so why was it implied "oh no he's about to get THE CODES NEXT WEEK" like it's a brink if the dude is not insane. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Even then, there's procedures in place that whomever has the 'codes' can't just push a button and they launch anyway. 

And there's no way Pakistan just sells their nuclear arsenal when the whole point of becoming a nuclear state was to counter India. 

[questionfear]

On 6/3/2024 at 12:08 PM, lovett1979 said:

Well, The Doctor had mentioned him earlier and that he had brought the world to "the brink of nuclear...". And (unfortunately), I can completely see certain politicians today doing just that. Perhaps in the first timeline, he did get the weapons and did almost use them but something else stopped him/them.  I'm not sure why Ruby had to wait for that to make her move. Again, I think Ruby THOUGHT that was her purpose and her big moment, that's why she didn't just automatically eliminate him the moment they met, or the moment she knew he was a predator. Also, we don't know all the rules about the Old Woman, but it seems she always has to be in Ruby's sightline? So it was only at the stadium that she could be 73 yards away from him, but still see him, in order to place the Old Woman next to him.

I randomly had a thought while falling asleep last night about this. I wondered if in the "real" timeline (not the one Ruby was in where the doctor disappeared) the Doctor intervened to stop nuclear war. Maybe some future iteration of the Doctor crosses paths with Ap Gwilliam and that's what stops the war, but with him out of the picture it's on Ruby to do it.