Season Eight: Scambled Episode Order and Writers' Strikes, Oh My! And Hi, Zack Nichols...

[Spartan Girl]

My favorite part of "Playing Dead" had to be when Goren and Eames ripped into the politician's wife that basically stood by and let her husband rape her daughter. I love Eames' disgusted "At what point do you stop lying to yourself?" And when the ninny starts whining about how her daughter always ran to her drug addict boyfriend for everything, Goren was just "Well, she needed SOMEBODY to look up to." Boom.

[WendyCR72]

My favorite part of "Playing Dead" had to be when Goren and Eames ripped into the politician's wife that basically stood by and let her husband rape her daughter. I love Eames' disgusted "At what point do you stop lying to yourself?" And when the ninny starts whining about how her daughter always ran to her drug addict boyfriend for everything, Goren was just "Well, she needed SOMEBODY to look up to." Boom.

 

Yes! That woman was gross. All to "keep" her gem of a rapist hubby. I also liked Goren, as bad a thought as it was, pointing out to Stacey that if she didn't go against the scumbag, he could go after his own kid (Sophie). The whole sister/daughter thing was just sad.

 

And I also hated the bastard saying how young Stacey "seduced" his pervert ass. UGH.

[Spartan Girl]

There's NO WAY IN HELL a jury would buy a little girl seducing a grown man.

Then again a jury acquitted OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony, so what do I know?

[WendyCR72]

There's NO WAY IN HELL a jury would buy a little girl seducing a grown man.

Then again a jury acquitted OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony, so what do I know?

 

Yeah, some juries are dumb. But even dumb ones, if they did the math, should realize things didn't happen as that douche claims it did. It does make me wonder if the mother (for lack of a much better term; the woman is no mother as far as I'm concerned!) would side with the rapist hubby or her own damned child in a court of law...

[WendyCR72]

It's clear S8 was not shown in order (and is the same order on the DVD set), because Bobby's hair goes from longer and wildly curly to short and groomed depending on the episode. I wonder what the production order was?

[Maherjunkie]

Probably none, given the rest of that schlock season.

Protecting the abuser is classic.

[WendyCR72]

Probably none, given the rest of that schlock season.

 

Wasn't entirely bad. I did like "Family Values" and "Lady's Man".  :-)  It does make me wonder why the episodes were shown out of order, though.

[cooksdelight]

Refresh my memory.... who were the people Bobby had a family meal with in "Faithfully", which was just on?? The girl sent him photos, and I cannot figure out who these people are. His brother is dead, it definitely wasn't his former girlfriend or whatever. Nephew's dead. Mom's dead. Who are they?

[WendyCR72]

If I recall, Molly was said to be a niece. So it could be honorary - or (and this is only a theory as it was never explained explicitly) Bobby found some family through Mark Ford Brady.

 

In any case, as I said, the connections really weren't addressed. My guess is, Walon Green (EP of S8) wanted to show Bobby coming out from under the shitpile Warren Leight had buried him under, so he got some family...

[cooksdelight]

Thanks, glad I didn't miss a storyline somewhere. It didn't look like a very happy dinner, either. Butterbeans? Blech!! :)

[Spartan Girl]

Ah, "Folie a Deux"....I feel bad for Piper Perbo's character. Yeah, she probably shouldn't have taken her baby with her while tracking down her cheating douche of a husband, but still, it wasn't really her fault that the car and the car conditioner broke down while the baby was still in the car. It really was an accident.

Plus she pretended her baby was alive because of the guilt. Douche Guy did it to scam the rich aunt.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Spartan Girl

[WendyCR72]

Ah, "Folie a Deux"....I feel bad for Piper Perbo's character. Yeah, she probably shouldn't have taken her baby with her while tracking down her cheating douche of a husband, but still, it wasn't treally her fault that the car and the car conditioner broke down while the baby was still in the car. It really was an accident.

Plus she pretended her baby was alive because of the guit. Douche Guy did it to scam the rich aunt.

 

The end of that one was so sad, with the remains under a tiny sheet, with just a poem. You could see Goren's sadness but also his disgust about the "father". The whole thing was just sad. I also felt sorry for the aunt, too.

[WendyCR72]

Yay, "Lady's Man"! And the dry cleaner lady is a rude witch. Hee.

[cooksdelight]

One of my favorites! I took a break from working so I can watch.

[WendyCR72]

One of my favorites! I took a break from working so I can watch.

 

Yeah, especially since S8, overall, seemed spotty. And I love Bobby, as you know, but I liked that Alex has her moment in the sun here. Kathryn Erbe did a great job.

[cooksdelight]

Her turn to get gas-lighted. Gas-lit? Whichever! :)

Shitty continuity there at the end when he had his hands over his face. From the front, they were all over his face. From the side, they stopped below his nose. I hate the little stuff like that.

[WendyCR72]

Her turn to get gas-lighted. Gas-lit? Whichever! :)

Shitty continuity there at the end when he had his hands over his face. From the front, they were all over his face. From the side, they stopped below his nose. I hate the little stuff like that.

 

To be honest, I never noticed. Now you know I'll have to look for that next time. So thanks. LOL!

[cooksdelight]

Continuity flubs bother me more than anything. Like when the camera is behind and you see a woman's hair with a piece sticking out. Then from the front it's smooth. Then back to the back shot and it's sticking out again.

I'm weird like that!

[WendyCR72]

I always am confused a bit with "All In". I'm 99.9% sure that the character perp is supposed to be the same character from "Cruise To Nowhere" in S5, Joey Frost. Yet here, the character's name is Josh Snow. Yet he knows G/E, etc. I wonder if there was a rights issue with the other name?

 

But it's just odd as hell.

 

ETA: Two different actors had played Joey/Josh, so maybe it wasn't meant as a continuation? But as I said, Josh mentions remembering G/E and tells his girlfriend that they put away the guy that killed his father, so maybe the character was "recast". But it still doesn't explain the name change.

[cooksdelight]

Maybe the writer had a hangover and whipped out an old script, made some edits, and voila!

[TudorQueen]

"Revolution" is my favorite Season Eight episode, and one of my favorite episodes of CI - mostly because of Stephen Lang and Tania Raymonde, but the writing was good, too. I loved that they were able to condemn Kaspers for his actions, while still conveying that he was in earnest, that he acted out of conviction and, from his experience, compassion, and that he truly loved his 'daughter'. The scene where he and Eames talk about "The Wretched of the Earth" actually touched me.

 

During this round of reruns on WE, I got to see "In Treatment" for the first time and enjoyed it. Norbert Leo Butz is a double Tony winner for his work in stage musicals, and I thought he did a great job of making Beuliss a more complex character than he might have appeared on the page.

 

And although I missed Mike Logan in the last few seasons as much as anyone could, I didn't mind Zach Nichols, and enjoyed some of his episodes.

[WendyCR72]

And although I missed Mike Logan in the last few seasons as much as anyone could, I didn't mind Zach Nichols, and enjoyed some of his episodes.

 

Always up for different points of view. What were some of your favorite Zack Nichols episodes, @TudorQueen? And did you have a preference regarding his partners, Wheeler or Stevens?

[TudorQueen]

I really liked "Broad Channel", and "True Legacy," and thought he was very good in the chilling "Abel and Willing." and in "Love Sick". I thought he was excellent in "Three-in-One" - he and F Murray Abraham really sold the father-son relationship and their scenes crackled.

 

Other times he could be too mannered (something that, weirdly, never seemed to happen with the Goren episodes, maybe because they really set up Goren's character in very specific ways from the beginning).

 

I started out not liking Wheeler much because I don't usually like Julianne Nicholson, but warmed towards her over time and ended up liking her quite a lot by the time she was pregnant. Saffron Burrows seems increasingly stiff and smirky to me as an actress (hated her character on "Boston Legal") so I never really liked Stevens much, though she had some decent moments near the end of her time there.

I actually liked Fallucci, which seems to be a minority opinion, and not relevant to this thread anyway.. More relevantly, I loved Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio as the Season Eight captain and wished she'd stuck around to the end (though Jay O. Sanders was very good)

Edited October 8, 2015 by TudorQueen

[cooksdelight]

I loved it when Wheeler asked Nichols "So, are you going to tell her you wrote it?" talking about the poem.

"No, that would be cruel," said Nichols. And the smirk Wheeler made had me laughing.

[WendyCR72]

I actually liked Fallucci, which seems to be a minority opinion, and not relevant to this thread anyway.. More relevantly, I loved Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio as the Season Eight captain and wished she'd stuck around to the end (though Jay O. Sanders was very good)

 

 

I said this elsewhere (maybe the S7 thread?) that I have softened a bit on Falacci. I do think she was still a bit too young opposite Mike Logan. Still, as with Goren and Bishop, Falacci was temporary, so I suppose that is moot. Alicia Witt did do well making Logan look like the calm one and the voice of reason.  :-)

 

I also agree - for the nothingness she was saddled with - that Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio did what she could for her character of Zoe Callas. I do wonder why she was not kept beyond her one and done in S9. But my own theory is that USA fired everyone during that season. Could be wrong. But it's odd that not only did every S9 cast member disappear, but there was zilch in terms of explanations - even with a scant line or two - of what happened to them in S10. I guess it could be assumed Stevens and Nichols were still there but unseen, but with Captain Hannah there, obviously Captain Callas was gone. Ironic considering a line to Nichols during one of their cases of how she didn't want her name taken off the door. As you said, Jay O. Sanders did a good job, and I do like him as an actor. But even with so many seasons under the show's belt by then, I still recalled him as a hitman for the mob, Harry Rowan, in "Dead" in S2. So seeing him on the other side of the law was a bit funny. I do wonder what Callas' vibe would have been like, handling Goren and Eames. Especially Goren. But still, as you pointed out, Nichols could be quite quirky himself. (I do think there is something to Bobby's habits not annoying me - as you explained - since some were very used to them by then and they were what made Bobby, Bobby. He had a lot of exacting characteristics from the beginning.)

 

I could only handle Nichols in small doses. But I sincerely am glad to chat with those who liked him. Maybe widen my view, as it were! I will admit he played off of F. Murray Abraham well, and the father/son bond was believable. And he seemed fraternal toward Wheeler, especially when she got pregnant.

 

As for Serena Stevens, perhaps if Ms. Burrows was allowed to use her natural voice, instead of seeming like she was totally focused on keeping her American accent, maybe she would have seemed less wooden to me. But I think, even just partner-wise, she and Nichols lacked any chemistry in their scenes.

[WendyCR72]

"Rock Star", the grand Nichols debut, is on WE, I see. Good thing I have the show on as background today while standing guard for trick or treaters! (And trying to keep out of the chocolate myself!)

 

Happy Halloween, everyone!

[cooksdelight]

Happy Halloween! Rain is imminent here, so even though I was planning on taking the dog into town, in costume, that plan has been scrapped. I am grilling like mad things I need for dips I am making tomorrow.

"Identity Crisis" is on now, one of my favs. I don't know why I like this ep. so much, maybe because the guy was so broken at the end.

[WendyCR72]

"Identity Crisis" is on now, one of my favs. I don't know why I like this ep. so much, maybe because the guy was so broken at the end.

 

Oh, I like it, too. But it's hard to miss the symmetry with Bobby, his mom, and Frank. Maybe that's one of the reasons it resonates a bit more, too.

 

Sorry to hear the weather has altered your plans.

[WendyCR72]

I realize this was mentioned before, but S8 (which is on WE now) is so amusing to watch for me since one never knows if they'll get bearded, curlier-haired Goren or unshaven, shorter-haired Goren by episode! It makes me wonder what the actual production order was since it was so obviously not in sequence.

[WendyCR72]

So "Lady's Man" is on WE again, and something stuck out for me this time: Eames recognized the red shirt and knew it was missing. Great! But she didn't notice her home a bit in disarray or maybe her pic with Joe not exactly where it may have been, etc.?

 

And unless Mulrooney was a complete freak (possible!), he could have used Alex's makeup, too. It's actually pretty creepy, knowing he was in her place.

[cooksdelight]

Seeing the ADA from SVU in a dress will never fail to make me laugh. 

[WendyCR72]

Seeing the ADA from SVU in a dress will never fail to make me laugh. 

 

Hey now, he rocked the red wig and nail polish, though! (Raul Esparza committed to the crazy; I respect him for it!)

[WendyCR72]

I never did understand just how Wheeler never knew her new partner before the crime scene in "Rock Star". You'd think Ross would have done the particulars in his office, so they could get settled in.

 

But Wheeler's exasperation with Nichols was pretty neat.

[WendyCR72]

I understand "Folie A Deux" is indeed real, but I guess I don't understand how CI plays it here. I mean, did the wife realize before the hotel at some point that her child is dead and just wills herself to play like Emma is there or does she hallucinate the baby? What? I mean, there was a crib in the room shows an some point but obviously no Emma, so what did/does she see when she "checks on her"?

 

It's quite fascinating but also kind of sad.

[WendyCR72]

The so-called sledgehammer pervy dad puts in the dumpster in "Family Values" looks like a Fisher-Price toy to me!

 

It just hit me that this episode is loosely based on the 1971 John List murder case, complete with the father as a religious zealot with a daughter who wanted to be an actress, much to his strong dismay.

[WendyCR72]

So WE is at the end of S8 and "Revolution" is on with Eames/Nichols. (As an aside, it's still weird how abruptly Wheeler exited.) Anyway, as tall as VDO is and made Erbe look small, I swear she is almost positively shrimpy next to Nichols.

 

The FBI agent played by Dierdre Lovejoy is distracting! I keep thinking of her as Heather Taffett, the Gravedigger from Bones. Hee. (DL was also the wife of the pharmacist watering down cancer drugs in "Malignant" back in S2.)

[WendyCR72]

"Identity Crisis", one of the few really good (IMO!) episodes of S8 is on USA now. While I do appreciate the parallels of this case with Bobby's own life, it sort of surprises me that he keeps it together enough considering just how close it does mirror his life (schizophrenic mom with two boys, etc.).

 

Although I like that neither Ross nor Eames bring that up. Maybe the writers knew the audience would get it?

 

Hmm. WE has S1's "Homo Homini Lupus"! Decisions, decisions.

[WendyCR72]

USA showed "Faithfully" in the dead of night. As much as I like G/E, I never did understand why they were so abrupt with Carrie (the doc's wife who was hit by the intruder) from jump. They seemed awfully quick to accuse her when they went back to talk with her, too.

 

And, like others, I wish we know where the "family" Bobby visited in the beginning came from! (Although it was something nice for Bobby, for a change.)

[WendyCR72]

"Watch" aired last night. And in the case of Brad Renfro (who has been discussed here), now knowing he had issues which led to an early death, I wonder how much of his character was an act or not?

 

The pitfalls of reading actor info.

[WendyCR72]

I really feel for Wheeler upon meeting Nichols. She seemed so...perplexed.

[cooksdelight]

"Folie a Deux" just aired, I cannot believe I missed the fact that Goren's beard is thick, then almost non-existant in the next scene. Fire the continuity editor, not to mention the hairdresser.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

"Folie a Deux" just aired, I cannot believe I missed the fact that Goren's beard is thick, then almost non-existant in the next scene. Fire the continuity editor, not to mention the hairdresser.

Like I said, most of S8 seemed out of order. One episode is Goren's hot mess look, the next, he is well groomed!

Ah, "Lady's Man". Love the "does he have to be here, does he have to be here, do you have to be here?" schtick during one of the interviews. Glad KE got some play out of this.

[cooksdelight]

Lady's Man is one of my favorites. I never put it together on the first time watching it that the dude was a lady. LOL

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, cooksdelight said:

Lady's Man is one of my favorites. I never put it together on the first time watching it that the dude was a lady. LOL

Now I got "Dude Looks Like A Lady" from Aerosmith in my head.  :-P

[cooksdelight]

That's why I said that!! HAHAHAHA!!!!

[WendyCR72]

Amazing how quickly S8 went into the crapper post "Lady's Man", etc. I had forgotten how blah the rest of that season was. But it still looks like a masterpiece compared to how S9 turned out.

[Totale]

"Faithfully" was on again and I noticed Goren lived in Greenpoint Brooklyn in what looked like a nice place. A hipster before his time.  If he owned it (and rode out the 2008 crash) he could sell now and wouldn't need a police pension.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/23/2016 at 2:53 PM, Totale said:

"Faithfully" was on again and I noticed Goren lived in Greenpoint Brooklyn in what looked like a nice place. A hipster before his time.  If he owned it (and rode out the 2008 crash) he could sell now and wouldn't need a police pension.

I like cool factoids like this. Great to know locations, etc. Yeah, it looked more like a house than an apartment, the few times we got to see the place. Maybe he did own it...

[WendyCR72]

It occurred to me with S8 on WE that Eames seemed, at the tail end of that season, to assist Nichols often enough (probably since Julianne Nicholson left the series/had her baby). But it's too bad she never worked a case partnered with Logan ("Wee" in S5 had both teams, so not the same thing).

That unknown dynamic still leaves me curious. I could actually see friction if just because Goren seemed willing to let Eames "lead", so to speak, since it left him to observe/use his trusty binder and books, etc., and I think there'd be more a battle of wills with Eames and Logan.

As an aside, those Nichols/Eames episodes kind of bored me, for whatever reason. Funny how the FBI agent in "Revolution" played Penny, the wife of the pharmacist diluting cancer medicines in "Malignant". (Deirdre Lovejoy, the actress, will always be known to me from Bones as the Gravedigger, though!)

[WendyCR72]

USA is showing "Identity Crisis, the episode where a guy kills his brother (who was actually dying, unbeknownst to the perp) because of their past involving their schizophrenic mother.

The actor who played the perp, Tom Burress/Grey Vanderhoven was actually pretty good (IMO). But I was also surprised - in a good way - at how the parallels with Bobby and Frank were never explicitly stated at all, yet VDO's expressions easily relayed that quite subtly.

I really liked that it was under the radar. If it was S7, it would have been hammered in left and right. I think it's why Goren was able to get through to Burress, knowing the difficult past that Tom had. And I personally liked the sort of low-key, intense confrontation at the end there between them. Sure, I would have liked Eames there, too. But I get why it was done as it was here.

The actor that played Tom/Grey looks so familiar to me, too.