S07.E09: Game Theory Optimal

[CheshireCat]

Quote

Chuck makes a daring and risky move to demonstrate his unwavering commitment to taking Prince down; Prince gets tipped off about a potential mutiny among his ranks; Wendy is tempted by a new opportunity.

Air date: Oct 8, 2023

[katenm]

It's never been clear exactly what plan the anti-Prince cabal had in mind, but talking about it in the office always seemed idiotic. 

I do not think Phillip signed a waiver, his uncle threw him a lifeline, and he was astute enough to grab it quickly. 

I am not going to be surprised if it turns out that Wendy's shrink is either Prince's mother, an aunt, or his former nanny.

I love Ira.

[paigow]

Prince has freed Chuck for Scorched Earth. Axe will ask his NATO  buddies to make Prince land in Spain....

[NeenerNeener]

I was surprised at Wags going toe-to-toe with Chuck on Wendy's behalf, even if it was unnecessary.

I half expect that mental health company that made Wendy the offer to be some kind of poison pill set up by Axe to screw over Prince. I think I'll be disappointed if it's not.

[aghst]

I was rolling my eyes so much when Wags went to talk to Chuck.  And everyone in that office lined up as he walked in.

Chuck, Wendy, Taylor and Wags had their little Power Rangers Unite! moment before Prince called them in to put down the hammer.

Wendy, Wags and Taylor are all worth tens of millions at least, if not more.  Prince is denying them their bonuses and personal money invested in MPC funds?

They’re still all very rich but I forgot, this is the show where Bobby once gaslit another guy about how his life was going to suck because he was only going to have $150 million, how his wife and children were going to suffer.

 

Chuck somehow knows Prince would use a first-strike nuke, which is what Prince told some supposedly important guy.  Kind of on the nose since it was a private gathering and Chuck wasn’t even there.

But Wendy also thinks Prince would be among the worst authoritarian in history, as if she’s a precog.

Well among the bad things Prince has actually done, ruining that magic concrete guy, now we can add that he spies on his employees.

They could go to the media with these stories, Prince strong-arms some inventor, spies on people.  That would hurt a candidate, especially a third party one, especially a rich one.

I don’t even remember that doctor character, what he did, how Chuck screwed him over.

 

The writing has been so bad.  It was never great but seems like Succession, which was an interesting show about the ultra rich, broke these writers because it drew all this attention and acclaim, coming along after Billions was the first to explore this territory.

[NeenerNeener]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Chuck somehow knows Prince would use a first-strike nuke, which is what Prince told some supposedly important guy.  Kind of on the nose since it was a private gathering and Chuck wasn’t even there.

Chuck was there. It was at the "Owls" retreat in the last episode. Some big political  muckity-muck (played by Griffin Dunne) showed up in his helicopter and they had a big Q-and-A with all the other rich guys. Melina Kanakaredes played the Governor who had the inside edge on Dunne's endorsement until Prince told him he'd nuke any country that even looked at him funny, and Dunne switched his endorsement to Prince. 

[aghst]

I didn’t think Chuck was at that Q&A session, which was suppose to be a limited group of the Owl attendees.

If it’s a big deal and makes him unfit to be POTUS, just let it slip that he committed to that stance.

[NeenerNeener]

Chuck was there. Watch the previouslys for this episode again if you want to see it without having to fast forward thru the "Owl" episode. He's sitting behind Prince and off to Prince's left.

[katenm]

It would be interesting if it turns out the anti-Prince cabal hasn't fallen into his trap, but he has fallen into theirs. Now, I have not quite figured out how that would work but it would be fun. 

I am hoping Taylor has at least one big moment before the series ends. It feels like they have had not much to do this season, which is a pity.

[AuntieMame]

12 minutes ago, katenm said:

It would be interesting if it turns out the anti-Prince cabal hasn't fallen into his trap, but he has fallen into theirs. Now, I have not quite figured out how that would work but it would be fun. 

I am hoping Taylor has at least one big moment before the series ends. It feels like they have had not much to do this season, which is a pity.

I was hoping this too because otherwise our stalwart band of saviors are a bit idiotic. It’s disappointing. I’d also like to see a bit more of what makes Prince more evil and megalomaniacal than our average overlord. Seems that this goes into the good idea but poor execution box unless we get a big switch up. 

[paigow]

Making Prince confront Axe in London was the endgame. Prince will be blinded by anger, a vulnerability that Axe will exploit. 

[paigow]

6 hours ago, katenm said:

I am hoping Taylor has at least one big moment before the series ends. It feels like they have had not much to do this season, which is a pity.

Taylor will do a Star Wars Trope callback on Prince... Philip is fake prisoner Chewie. 

[aghst]

Taylor has been working for years in the industry, earning a lot of money for the firm and herself.

Philip fresh out of college is going to do the same?

And then he's going to betray MPC, including his uncle, because Prince screwed over the magic cement guy?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

And then he's going to betray MPC, including his uncle, because Prince screwed over the magic cement guy?

Makes him the ideal double agent... his recorded denial is perfect cover of loyalty.

[aghst]

Yeah but he's going to turn on his uncle?

Not to mention, he was willing to come work for Prince.  So he must respect him to a certain extent, but he's ready to stab him in the back?  When Prince has mostly treated him as a prized employee and promoted him, right out of school.

[paigow]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah but he's going to turn on his uncle?

Scooter helped railroad the professor... no loyalty remains

[katenm]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:38 AM, paigow said:

Scooter helped railroad the professor... no loyalty remains

The scales may have fallen from Phillip's eyes at that moment. It was also clear that he was playing along with having signed a waiver about having his session with Wendy filmed. His uncle threw him a lifeline, but he took it only to betray his uncle and Prince. I hope, otherwise, his character has been a waste of screen time.

Of course, the coupe de grace would be for Scooter and Philip to join in Prince's downfall. 

I am spending way too much time thinking about this!

I do want how much I enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts on every episode; even when the episodes are disappointing your comments never are!

[paigow]

Scooter likely still mad about that conducting mess.

[aghst]

What Prince did to the magic cement guy sucked but nothing worse than what Axe has been doing for years.

This show has been sucking up to billionaire Bobby and now it's got some conscience about billionaires stomping on little guys?

Credibility of the writers is low, to suddenly make Prince a villain and everyone other character, who are all compromised in other ways, suddenly decide they will make some heroic stand against Prince, led by Axe of all people.

 

 

[paigow]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

What Prince did to the magic cement guy sucked but nothing worse than what Axe has been doing for years.

Many seasons ago, Axe betrayed Taylor - something about Gregor - so she started her own firm and stole Gregor.

Unfortunately for Prince, he betrayed Philip. Prince, Scooter & Sacker have to face a Caine Mutiny that will reinstate Captain Axe.

[ahpny]

18 hours ago, aghst said:

What Prince did to the magic cement guy sucked but nothing worse than what Axe has been doing for years.

This is the crux of why this season seems problematic. Wendy, Taylor and Waggs didn't just work for Axe for years. At least Wendy and Waggs, in some capacity, seemed to love Axe, flaws, disloyalty and illegality notwithstanding. On a spectrum of evil or at least  duplicitousness/unscupulouslessess, what have we seen that puts Prince in a more problematic place than Axe? Yes, Axe never tried to run for president, but if he had, would this same "concerned" group have had the same level of concern for a potential Axe presidency? The writters just haven't sold the "Prince is uniquely evil" part of this story to make this all work. Casually suggesting, in a private setting, that a first strike might be considerable in certain circumstances just doesn't trigger the outrage it might have given the wackiness of current politics and the norm-shattering of the past several years in real life.

It's also hard to understand how a group of very smart people like Wendy, Taylor and Waggs could have gone about their plotting in such a sloppy way and have expected Prince not to find out or at least suspect something. Maybe that's part of some yet-to-be-disclosed master plan, but this doesn't seem to be holding together so far. I still suspect Prince's wife will be involved - why raise the whole save the lover in the Himalayas story line otherwise? 

Edited October 10, 2023 by ahpny

[AuntieMame]

4 hours ago, ahpny said:

This is the crux of why this season seems problematic. Wendy, Taylor and Waggs didn't just work for Axe for years. At least Wendy and Waggs, in some capacity, seemed to love Axe, flaws, disloyalty and illegality notwithstanding. On a spectrum of evil or at least  duplicitousness/unscupulouslessess, what have we seen that puts Prince in a more problematic place than Axe? Yes, Axe never tried to run for president, but if he had, would this same "concerned" group have had the same level of concern for a potential Axe presidency? The writters just haven't sold the "Prince is uniquely evil" part of this story to make this all work. Casually suggesting, in a private setting, that a first strike might be considerable in certain circumstances just doesn't trigger the outrage it might have given the wackiness of current politics and the norm-shattering of the past several years in real life.

It's also hard to understand how a group of very smart people like Wendy, Taylor and Waggs could have gone about their plotting in such a sloppy way and have expected Prince not to find out or at least suspect something. Maybe that's part of some yet-to-be-disclosed master plan, but this doesn't seem to be holding together so far. I still suspect Prince's wife will be involved - why raise the whole save the lover in the Himalayas story line otherwise? 

This is my question too. What makes Prince worse than any other megalomaniacal overlord ruling this world? And what makes our band of mutineers suddenly moral even in theory? Haven’t they been working for the evil overlords to get rich and using many of the same tactics even when they momentarily weren’t working for the money harvesters? 
 I think that Prince catching them at it has to be giving Prince enough rope to hang himself and to feel secure. Otherwise they’re all just really moronic. I hope Phillip is a double agent. 

[aghst]

26 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

This is my question too. What makes Prince worse than any other megalomaniacal overlord ruling this world? And what makes our band of mutineers suddenly moral even in theory? Haven’t they been working for the evil overlords to get rich and using many of the same tactics even when they momentarily weren’t working for the money harvesters? 
 

Yeah Wendy, Wags and Taylor all suddenly developed ideals, rather than be purely chasing money, as they've done for years.

Remember when Connerty tried to flip Taylor, apply to their idealism?  For a second Taylor seemed conflicted about the lifestyle that their job working for Axe gave them, such as a huge penthouse apartment.

They got over it quick and told Connerty to get lost.

Wendy was going to work for Mental, some startup that was supportive of employees and providing services for the underprivileged.  But she was going to get a huge compensation package from them, in addition to feeling good about doing good.

But these are the rebels who's going to stop power-hungry Prince?

😆

[AuntieMame]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Wendy was going to work for Mental, some startup that was supportive of employees and providing services for the underprivileged.  But she was going to get a huge compensation package from them, in addition to feeling good about doing good.

But these are the rebels who's going to stop power-hungry Prince?

😆

Right? The start-up seemed like poisoned bait to me but I questioned how a start up with aspirations to serve those who couldn’t necessarily pay a lot could possibly offer Wendy enough money to tempt her. All of these people could not work for the rest of their lives and buy pretty much anything they want already. When does more money stop being an enticement? I’d think that point would be far below what these people have already had for years. 
 
I don’t understand what anyone’s motivations are at this point. Money? They have enough. More than enough. Power? They certainly have enough to live a secure life and none of our merry band has professed a desire for public personal power. Excellence in their field of endeavor? Again, according to the writing all of these people are successful and accomplished in their fields, in Taylor’s case to the level of savant without the problematic aspects that often come with savant gifts. So what do these people want? 
 
As for Prince being the next Stalin and the only proof we’ve been given is Wendy’s intuition and Prince’s willingness to push the nuclear button when given a hypothetical situation. Isn’t that decision always in the hands of our most powerful? Doesn’t the fact that it would always be planetary suicide either fast or slow stay people’s hands? I just wish some kind of understandable character motivations were established. 
 
If I were a megalomaniacal overlord with unquenchable ambition then life extension or immortality might be next on my list. If I were less megalomaniacal but rich enough to do what I wanted? Pursuit of an avocation or trying to truly improve the world might top the list. Or just a lifetime of happiness. What are these people pursuing? 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Chuck was actually trying to have the NYPD come up with a manufactured pretext to arrest Prince. Please, Prince would slide out of that before the ink on the arrest warrant dried. And then he'd get everyone involved fired.

Wendy's therapist encouraging her to go after Prince still seems unethical to me and I still don't trust her.

I don't think I've seen the actor who played the judge in the sentence reduction hearing scene since the Seinfeld show.

Yeah, no, how were Wags, Taylor, and Wendy surprised Prince had them under surveillance? (There's a theory over on reddit that when Phillip told Wendy during a supposed therapy session that he wouldn't join the plan she, Wags, and Taylor had against Prince, they both knew they were being recorded. Phillip was the failsafe to remain trusted by Prince in case the other three were discovered. I sure hope so.)

So Prince is going to step to Axe. Clash of the titans, lol. My money's on Axe, though Axe may temporarily let Prince think he's got the upper hand.