S02.E08: What Was Meant To Be

[DoctorAtomic]

We yak all the time in the Books to Show if anyone needs to ask larger context questions. 

54 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I haven't read the books, but from the length and number of the books and the detail I've heard suggested about the worldbuilding, I think that ultimately there is going to be a lot that is passed by in this story. I'm guessing the Ais Sedai are not that important in the larger scheme of things. They kept the stories going, as happens in nurseries and schoolyards, but Rand will have to take leadership and use the power (while overcoming the curse) with his small group of friends who will follow him, if the last battle will be won. 

tbh, there's a lot that could and should be cut without losing the core story. 

However, keep in mind, the Aes Sedai are the only people who can channel, and there's a lot of them. You're going to need armies regardless of whom is running the show. And if you recall, on this season, Suian was all 'boy' this and 'boy' that to Rand, then was forced to shield him when he got spooked because she whimsically said that Tower policy is to just cage him until they tell him what to do in the Last Battle. So, *they* certainly think they're going to be running the show at the Last Battle. 

Moiraine kind of low-key flipped the Tower off by 'revealing' the Dragon at Falme. The prophecies of the Dragon said 'he'll reveal himself at Falme', so she was like, 'eh, let me make a big dragon then'. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

First, there's never any promise of a next season, so it's quite possible this battle is the last we'd see of this series.

The show was renewed for Season 3 before this season aired (and for Season 2 before the first one aired). They plan to have eight seasons. They may not reach that far, but there was definitely going to be a third.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Valid question, and not rude at all.

I'm glad you're not offended.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

During Season 1, if I hadn't been reading this forum, I would have been hopelessly lost and probably dropped the show after 2 episodes.  I like Rosamund Pike, and I loved the look/feel of the show, so I stuck through.  I read several comments in other forums after season 1 that most non-book readers also had problems following the plot & characters (so so so many characters), so I was glad to know it wasn't just me.  This season, I figured I'd just roll with it, but still got lost several times.  Maybe I just need to give this show up.

A lot of these things *are* mentioned in the show but are easier for book readers to put in context because the books spent more time going from one point to the next. I hope you don't give the show up! The Wheel of Time is a worthwhile story, and if you have trouble following the show, the forum here (even including the bookwalker thread) will be happy to help.

32 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

However, keep in mind, the Aes Sedai are the only people who can channel, and there's a lot of them.

Well, the only *organization* that can channel. That we've seen so far. As opposed to Seanchan damane, rogue male channelers, and various women who can channel but don't realize they can or haven't or don't want to train with the Aes Sedai (or are burned at the stake by Whitecloaks before they can get to that point), frequently including village Wisdoms.

Spoiler

Of course, we will be seeing Aiel Wise Ones and Sea Folk Windfinders next season, who are also organizations, if not quite as organized as the Aes Sedai.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DoctorAtomic]

The Tower certainly thinks they'll be front and center prosecuting the Last Battle and telling Rand what to do. Currently, they don't know about the damane. I can't imagine that's going to be met well. Plus, the Seanchan think they're going to storm across the continent and take over, and they basically got their elite navy beaten back singlehandedly by Moiraine, and she's a blue.  

I should have said before that they're the only organization of *trained* channelers specifically for the last battle. Sure, there's wisdoms who may be able to channel, but you still need to teach them a lot. As powerful as Egwene is, she's basically just relying on haymakers because she doesn't know how to stick and move with the jab and land combos. Ishamael may have underestimated her, or been tired, or whatever, but the dark isn't going to make that same mistake again. 

I'm not trying to trash them too much. The Tower is basically the high middle age church and the only university. No one else has the compendium of knowledge since the breaking; who the Foresaken are, prophecies of the dragon. They also have objects of the power, so you could throw in that they're heavy artillery. 

They also are more politically dialed in across the continent. 

They're going to be playing a critical role. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I haven't read the books or a summary of the overall plot. From the statements of friends who have, there have been enough departures from the books already that book reading seems like it might lead to more disappointment than enhancement.

But just as someone genre-savvy, I was originally confused into thinking that Ishie was THE Dark One at the end of S1 during that confrontation. I could definitely see being confused that the battle here was supposed to be the prophesized Final Battle, although it's fairly clear that it was really more like the First Battle.

Lots of interesting threads to pick up next season (and please, no spoilers, but unspoiled speculation is OK): 

1. What happens to Rand now that he's publicly announced himself as the Dragon? I had hoped previously that there was a twist and the entire Two Rivers crowd was collectively the Dragon Reborn, but nope, still seems like it's just Rand.

2. Will Perrin become more of a wolf-man, and does that fall into Ishie's plan for him? Will he get a replacement/replacement(s) for Hopper, and if so, will he better protect him?

3. Will N and Egwene and Elaine go back to the Aes Sedai or become wiser in the ways of the One Power on their own, or under Moraine's tutelage?

4. How will the Two Rivers crowd forgive Rand for being the dumbass he was in pretending to be dead, or trust Moraine for lying to them?

5. How's Egwene gonna feel when she learns Rand was hooking up with Lanfear and did in a previous life?

6. Will Lan and N have the ability to pick up their romance?

7. What's the deal with the Forsaken?

8. Isn't anybody ever going to deal with Liandrin and possibly some other Aes Sedai are in partnership with/service to the Dark?

9. How will Rand grow stronger in the use of the One Power? Through mentoring by the male channeler? The Aes Sedai in general? Moraine (even though Lanfear promised to kill her if she and Rand worked together)? For that matter, Lanfear?

 

[DoctorAtomic]

39 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But just as someone genre-savvy, I was originally confused into thinking that Ishie was THE Dark One at the end of S1 during that confrontation. I could definitely see being confused that the battle here was supposed to be the prophesized Final Battle, although it's fairly clear that it was really more like the First Battle.

Actually, that was by design by the show. People of the continent confused Ishamael with the actual Dark One. Rand did think that's who he was fighting at first. Don't forget at the start of the season, everyone thought Rand died beating back the Dark One at the Eye. So now it's like, ok, 'we barely killed this guy, and it took all of us. There's another one of them running around *and* we have to fight the Dark One?" How?

This shouldn't be a spoiler because they showed the flashback of Lews imprisoning Ishamael, but for context - 

Spoiler

Ishamael was last to be imprisoned, so he was closest to the 'real world'. He'd been out and about for 1000 years or so, as like a ghost, not an actual person, and invaded people's dreams, and people had different names for him, like Ba'alzamon, but it was assumed that it was a shadow of the Dark One trying to reach the real world. So eventually the stopgap measure Lews put in place wore out and Ishamael was able to re-enter the world fully and then bring back the others. 

They haven't really gotten into *what* that imprisonment was on the show yet. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

53 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But just as someone genre-savvy, I was originally confused into thinking that Ishie was THE Dark One at the end of S1 during that confrontation.

What Doctor Atomic said. And Ishy himself cultivated that confusion to keep the Trollocs motivated over the centuries that the Dark One was sealed.

55 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I haven't read the books or a summary of the overall plot. From the statements of friends who have, there have been enough departures from the books already that book reading seems like it might lead to more disappointment than enhancement.

I read the books and I enjoy the show for what it is. I find that usually with any TV adaptation (ex. this show, The Shannara Chronicles, House of the Dragon, His Dark Materials, Outlander) there will actually be at least a few things it did that I like better about it than the original even if I would choose the original at the end of the day if I had to.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The Tower certainly thinks they'll be front and center prosecuting the Last Battle and telling Rand what to do. Currently, they don't know about the damane. I can't imagine that's going to be met well. Plus, the Seanchan think they're going to storm across the continent and take over, and they basically got their elite navy beaten back singlehandedly by Moiraine, and she's a blue.  

I should have said before that they're the only organization of *trained* channelers specifically for the last battle. Sure, there's wisdoms who may be able to channel, but you still need to teach them a lot. As powerful as Egwene is, she's basically just relying on haymakers because she doesn't know how to stick and move with the jab and land combos. Ishamael may have underestimated her, or been tired, or whatever, but the dark isn't going to make that same mistake again. 

I'm not trying to trash them too much. The Tower is basically the high middle age church and the only university. No one else has the compendium of knowledge since the breaking; who the Foresaken are, prophecies of the dragon. They also have objects of the power, so you could throw in that they're heavy artillery. 

They also are more politically dialed in across the continent. 

They're going to be playing a critical role. 

Perhaps not a central one, though. This is described as a wheel, and if the goal is to get off the wheel, move onto another wheel, and  roll in another direction (without the Ishmael/Lanfear/Lew love triangle and the soiled power) someone has to make a change in the way things operate. Rand is being presented as that person.  As the story progresses, and it is of necessity pruned heavily, it has to concentrate on the dragon person and the how he is the change he wants in the world. 

do the Aes Sedai at the moment know how to build and use weapons of mass destruction? I don't think so, really?

 

Is Ishmael dead or just inconvenienced?

[DoctorAtomic]

11 minutes ago, Affogato said:

do the Aes Sedai at the moment know how to build and use weapons of mass destruction? I don't think so, really?

They've mentioned on the show that there's objects of Power that can amplify your strength. So effectively, they are the weapons of mass destruction. 

Rand is completely untrained, and he took out a host of the Seanchan and their head guy with a fairly surgical strike and minimal effort. Moiraine then decimated a navy. Or in the first season, how the linked women wiped out the army in Fal Dara. 

They don't have a concept of nuclear weapons, but if you're only limited by your imagination, what would you come up with? I mean, you could technically vaporize the water in someone's body or just pull the air out of their lungs like Lanfear did.

[Affogato]

18 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They've mentioned on the show that there's objects of Power that can amplify your strength. So effectively, they are the weapons of mass destruction. 

Rand is completely untrained, and he took out a host of the Seanchan and their head guy with a fairly surgical strike and minimal effort. Moiraine then decimated a navy. Or in the first season, how the linked women wiped out the army in Fal Dara. 

They don't have a concept of nuclear weapons, but if you're only limited by your imagination, what would you come up with? I mean, you could technically vaporize the water in someone's body or just pull the air out of their lungs like Lanfear did.

stopping someone's heart or causing a stroke should be fairly easy. Sometimes these stories ignore things like that. The scariest member of the Fantastic Four is the Invisible Woman. Not the visual oomph of some of the others, though. Still, they Sedai seemed to have limited understanding of a lot of the objects of power we saw, in this story, and they have made those pesky oaths. Maybe, like Mat's dagger, they want Rand to be the dangerous unoathed weapon they can use because it is tied to their spear.

What is the goal of the forsaken, though? 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Still, they Sedai seemed to have limited understanding of a lot of the objects of power we saw

For sure. Moiraine even said that a lot of knowledge was lost. If you take the big battle in Season 1 though; that was only 5 of them. Tactically, they can be effective. You need someone that can organize those tactics and not just bulldoze ahead because they think they know best. 

[quarks]

16 hours ago, chaifan said:

 

Even with the explanations people have provided, I still find it weird that there's such a disconnect within the Ais Sedai, especially when the fate of the world is at stake. 

 

Well, yes - and I think that's kinda the point.

The fate of the world is at stake - and most of the Aes Sedai don't seem to know anything about it.  Most of them aren't even aware that their continent has been invaded by people capable of enslaving them. And attempts to raise this issue - by Alanna, pointing out that all indications are that the Last Battle is approaching; by Verin, pointing out that, hey, the Daughter-Heir doesn't seem to be around, that's odd; and even by Liandrin, pointing out that hey, apparently people are invading in the West, maybe we should try checking this out - are mostly getting ignored or dismissed.

And meanwhile, nearly all of them, except for maybe Adeleas, seem to be keeping secrets - including some potentially world shattering ones. 

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I haven't read the books or a summary of the overall plot. From the statements of friends who have, there have been enough departures from the books already that book reading seems like it might lead to more disappointment than enhancement.

But just as someone genre-savvy, I was originally confused into thinking that Ishie was THE Dark One at the end of S1 during that confrontation. I could definitely see being confused that the battle here was supposed to be the prophesized Final Battle, although it's fairly clear that it was really more like the First Battle.

Lots of interesting threads to pick up next season (and please, no spoilers, but unspoiled speculation is OK): 

1. What happens to Rand now that he's publicly announced himself as the Dragon? I had hoped previously that there was a twist and the entire Two Rivers crowd was collectively the Dragon Reborn, but nope, still seems like it's just Rand.

2. Will Perrin become more of a wolf-man, and does that fall into Ishie's plan for him? Will he get a replacement/replacement(s) for Hopper, and if so, will he better protect him?

3. Will N and Egwene and Elaine go back to the Aes Sedai or become wiser in the ways of the One Power on their own, or under Moraine's tutelage?

4. How will the Two Rivers crowd forgive Rand for being the dumbass he was in pretending to be dead, or trust Moraine for lying to them?

5. How's Egwene gonna feel when she learns Rand was hooking up with Lanfear and did in a previous life?

6. Will Lan and N have the ability to pick up their romance?

7. What's the deal with the Forsaken?

8. Isn't anybody ever going to deal with Liandrin and possibly some other Aes Sedai are in partnership with/service to the Dark?

9. How will Rand grow stronger in the use of the One Power? Through mentoring by the male channeler? The Aes Sedai in general? Moraine (even though Lanfear promised to kill her if she and Rand worked together)? For that matter, Lanfear?

 

I can make some relatively informed answers about a few of these, but given just how many changes the show has made to the books, as a book reader, I'm also curious about all of these, since I'm guessing that the show will continue to take a different approach.

And your speculation could easily be better than mine, since you aren't bound by book knowledge.

To kinda/sorta answer question seven, though, since this was already kinda addressed in the show: the Forsaken all had different reasons for joining Team Evil, so it's less "the deal" and more "the deals." I have no idea if the show plans to delve more into this - I'd love to see some of those background stories on screen, but I don't know if the show will have time.

[DoctorAtomic]

Lanfear flat out told Ishamael that she intended to betray him, so he released the rest of the Foresaken before Rand got him as one last move. 

I'd say they might get into some of it. 

[quarks]

I was more thinking the tidbits like, Lanfear, Ishamael and Lews Therin all being best friends before things went wrong.

I don't know if the show plans to give us tidbits like that for Moghedien. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I hope they do a flashback and she's always nuts. 

[Hanahope]

So far, we have seen 3 distinct sets of groups that all want to battle for the light against the dark, yet they are all directly opposed to each other.  will these crazy groups eventually realize they have to work together (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) to defeat the dark, as I suspect is needed.

Will Egwene's "training" under the Seanchan help the white tower realize that they need to modify their own training, create more Aes Sedai that can fight?  i thought it interesting that the Seanchan knew more about the Aes Sedai training than vice versa.  

I still wonder how Naneave could "graduate" to be an Aes Sedai when she has such trouble channeling except in times of great stress.  Yes, Liandrin needed her to graduate so she could get to Eqwene and remove both of them from the white tower, but do the Aes Sedai really just rely on the word of one sister that so and so is "ready" before throwing them to the arches?

I liked how the five (plus one) had to work together at the end to defeat Ishmael.  Someone mentioned Mat having eyes for Elayne, i thought it was Rand and i started to think about the whole love-triangle that created Lanfere.  I'm sure that the five will all be tempted again to go to the dark side, because that's how plots work (the series wasn't 14 books for nothing).

So what happened to the horn?  I saw the one female hero sortof spirit it behind her, is it gone for good?  i might have been nice to know a bit more about the heros of the past (other than Uno), i presume the books gave more details.  the show does interest me in reading the books at some point, when i feel like starting a 14 book series (at least i know there's an ending, which gives it a plus - compared to others).

 

[DoctorAtomic]

31 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I still wonder how Naneave could "graduate" to be an Aes Sedai when she has such trouble channeling except in times of great stress. 

She's only Accepted. As you said, Liandrin had ulterior motives though. 

 

[quarks]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So far, we have seen 3 distinct sets of groups that all want to battle for the light against the dark, yet they are all directly opposed to each other.  will these crazy groups eventually realize they have to work together (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) to defeat the dark, as I suspect is needed.

Will Egwene's "training" under the Seanchan help the white tower realize that they need to modify their own training, create more Aes Sedai that can fight?  i thought it interesting that the Seanchan knew more about the Aes Sedai training than vice versa.  

I still wonder how Naneave could "graduate" to be an Aes Sedai when she has such trouble channeling except in times of great stress.  Yes, Liandrin needed her to graduate so she could get to Eqwene and remove both of them from the white tower, but do the Aes Sedai really just rely on the word of one sister that so and so is "ready" before throwing them to the arches?

I liked how the five (plus one) had to work together at the end to defeat Ishmael.  Someone mentioned Mat having eyes for Elayne, i thought it was Rand and i started to think about the whole love-triangle that created Lanfere.  I'm sure that the five will all be tempted again to go to the dark side, because that's how plots work (the series wasn't 14 books for nothing).

So what happened to the horn?  I saw the one female hero sortof spirit it behind her, is it gone for good?  i might have been nice to know a bit more about the heros of the past (other than Uno), i presume the books gave more details.  the show does interest me in reading the books at some point, when i feel like starting a 14 book series (at least i know there's an ending, which gives it a plus - compared to others).

 

 

1. I'm kinda hoping the show gets more into how, exactly, the Seanchan knew so much about White Tower training. That was an interesting tidbit that didn't really get developed in the show.

2. As DoctorAtomic noted, Nynaeve isn't Aes Sedai yet. She's ahead of Egwene and Elayne, who are only Novices (level one), but behind full Aes Sedai (level three). She's at level two, Accepted. That is, a much nicer bedroom, the ability to leave the Tower if she wants to, and fewer chores - which in turn presumably would allow her more time to study.

Given that she managed the feat of channeling inside the Arches and returning after everyone except Egwene assumed she was dead, I think she probably deserved that level, even if most of the time she doesn't seem to be able to channel.  Also, a number of other Aes Sedai were in the cave when Nynaeve did her huge channeling thing and healed everyone, so they weren't just relying on Liandrin's word. They had other witnesses.

That said, we did see Alanna and her Warders say, "Hey, maybe raising her to Accepted right now isn't the best idea," and Sheriam also seemed to have a few doubts, so....you probably have a point here.

[Which Tyler]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:58 PM, quarks said:

 

1. I'm kinda hoping the show gets more into how, exactly, the Seanchan knew so much about White Tower training. That was an interesting tidbit that didn't really get developed in the show.

2. As DoctorAtomic noted, Nynaeve isn't Aes Sedai yet. She's ahead of Egwene and Elayne, who are only Novices (level one), but behind full Aes Sedai (level three). She's at level two, Accepted. That is, a much nicer bedroom, the ability to leave the Tower if she wants to, and fewer chores - which in turn presumably would allow her more time to study.

Given that she managed the feat of channeling inside the Arches and returning after everyone except Egwene assumed she was dead, I think she probably deserved that level, even if most of the time she doesn't seem to be able to channel.  Also, a number of other Aes Sedai were in the cave when Nynaeve did her huge channeling thing and healed everyone, so they weren't just relying on Liandrin's word. They had other witnesses.

That said, we did see Alanna and her Warders say, "Hey, maybe raising her to Accepted right now isn't the best idea," and Sheriam also seemed to have a few doubts, so....you probably have a point here.

1. The Seanchan have captured and broken a sitter for the blue ajah - that's going to help their knowledge of Aes Sedai training and politics.
The Aes Sedai as a whole... don't know that the Seanchan exist - which is going to be less helpful. They'll find out soon enough though.

2. I'm pretty sure we're told in show that Liandrin had to politic pretty hard to get Nynaeve tested for Accepted - which she wishes she hadn't after Nyn discovers sonny-boy.
I'm also pretty sure that they've stated Nyn as being the most powerful to come to the tower in living memory (certainly that Nyn and Eggy are the two most powerful since Cadsuane - with a name-check for her). There are some very good reasons for fast-tracking someone that powerful, especially if you think that by doing so you can make an ally of potentially the most powerful person in the world.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Which Tyler

[Affogato]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:49 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I don't want to seem rude, but how could it have been if the show isn't over yet? And you'd expect the Dark One to present at the Final Battle, armies of Trollocs and Fades, etc.

This battle was primarily against the Seanchan, who while an evil empire mostly aren't Darkfriends and those that are Darkfriends need to keep it secret like they do in the Westlands.

The aftermath of ‘the last battle’ coxf be an interrsting story. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Ny was said in-show to be the most powerful channeler in 1000 years iirc. Which isn't saying much for the rest. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Ny was said in-show to be the most powerful channeler in 1000 years iirc. Which isn't saying much for the rest. 

I mean, Ny has participated in two pretty undeniable and unbelievable shows of power: she brought a whole bunch of people back from the dead (or mostly dead) when the fake Dragon was running roughshod over them and she (with the help of Eg and a few other channellers wiped out a whole Trolloc army at the end of last season. 

It seems like the main downside is she is largely incapable of originating these uses of power just at will but needs to be in a heavily emotional state. She seemingly can't even do simple things. Once she gets through whatever mental/emotional block she has (presumably something having to do with her hating/distrusting Aes Sedai), it seems like she will be formidable.

[quarks]

7 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

1. The Seanchan have captured and broken a sitter for the blue ajah - that's going to help their knowledge of Aes Sedai training and politics.
The Aes Sedai as a whole... don't know that the Seanchan exist - which is going to be less helpful. They'll find out soon enough though.

2. I'm pretty sure we're told in show that Liandrin had to politic pretty hard to get Nynaeve tested for Accepted - which she wishes she hadn't after Nyn discovers sonny-boy.
I'm also pretty sure that they've stated Nyn as being the most powerful to come to the tower in living memory (certainly that Nyn and Eggy are the two most powerful since Cadsuane - with a name-check for her). There are some very good reasons for fast-tracking someone that powerful, especially if you think that by doing so you can make an ally of potentially the most powerful person in the world.

1. I'm wondering just how much useful information they could have gotten out of Maigan, who seemed entirely broken at the end there - at one point she could only respond to Egwene by repeating the Seanchan rules, over and over, and at another point we saw her absolutely using the One Power as a weapon, which usually would break the Three Oaths but in this case I think meant that she genuinely believed her life was at stake, even though logic should have told her that the Seanchan wanted her alive in order to use her. So I don't think she's particularly rational at the moment, let alone able to give detailed information about novice training in the White Tower.

But she might have been able to give tidbits, which allowed Renna to reach her own, not entirely wrong, conclusions about a) all the work Egwene had to do in the Tower, and b) just how unappreciated Egwene felt at the Tower - something that I think helped Renna break Egwene. However much Renna was wrong about Egwene in other respects (most notably in her assumption that even after all the torture she could win Egwene over by saying, hey, we're preparing for the Last Battle here), she was spot on with that analysis.

Which leads me to:

2. Sure, there's reasons to fast track your most powerful channeler now that the Last Battle is coming. But as Sheriam points out, doing so also comes with certain risks - not to mention that Nynaeve can't always channel at will. 

If Nynaeve hadn't been so desperate to save her daughter in the Arches - desperate enough to make that doorway appear again (possibly with Egwene's help, though Egwene had stopped channeling at that point) - the Aes Sedai would have lost their most powerful channeler. So it wasn't the best move.

One of many not so great moves during the training process. I'm not saying that the Aes Sedai should be praising Egwene to the skies on a daily basis - but it's kinda hard not to notice that she went from YAY AES SEDAI to openly resentful, to the point where she was willing to leave the White Tower without telling any of the Aes Sedai. Sure, some of that was to save Perrin - but she could have gone to save Perrin and tried to leave some sort of note, or at least talked to Sheriam first. She didn't. 

And then of course there's the issue that apparently none of the Aes Sedai even noticed that two of their new novices were missing until Verin pointed this out, and even after they were told, hey, the new novices are missing, 14 of them - including Verin! - decided to head down to Cairhein instead of going, hmm, remember that potential bandit attack Liandrin was chatting about? Maybe we should investigate that, or at the very least try to confirm that Elayne is at her brother's whatever thing. 

I know Verin suggested that Sheriam might be under Compulsion, but that doesn't explain what everyone else is doing. 

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

Sure, there's reasons to fast track your most powerful channeler now that the Last Battle is coming. But as Sheriam points out, doing so also comes with certain risks - not to mention that Nynaeve can't always channel at will. 

Don't forget, now that we know Liandrin is black, she had other motives to getting Ny up to Accepted. The main feature being she can leave the Tower whenever, so that's a huge win if she gets raised for Liandrin's plans. 

Also, I think the show has shown enough that the Aes aren't nearly half as clever as they think they are with all that's happening and them all cloistered in the Tower. Granted, Moiraine wasn't doing anyone any favors basically hiding the Dragon from everyone and faking his death. It's like, 'ok, if he's really the Dragon, then the last battle is coming for real and we need to get it together.' Of course, they think they're going to just run the show, but there's an entire continent of competing interests to deal with. 

[rhiamon]

I loved so much of this (Mat! Lan! Moiraine! Uno!) but am surprising myself by grieving for Ish. Oh Fares, you were amazing. I caught myself head-plotting ways for Ish to get back on track mid-episode. There's a Darkfriend deep inside me!

In fact I'd have preferred, in the minority I guess, to lose Lanfear if we absolutely had to part with one of them already. Which is not to say I'm not enjoying Lanfear - she's obviously delicious too.

And Hopper, my poor heart. 

It was also sad to see Egwene kill Renna in the end. Clearly Renna as all Seanchan was deplorable but they did such a brilliant job of layering the character. And, I agree that it will be a huge thing for Egwene to recover from as mentioned above.