Season 3: Prisons, Governors, and Phone Calls from Zombie Heaven

[halgia]

In which Carl wore a hat, Rick got upset, and we never ever saw T-Dog's zombie.

[kj4ever]

Is it sad to say that this is one of my favorite seasons because we got to see Lori and Andrea kick the bucket?

[kikismom]

In which Carl wore a hat, Rick got upset, and we never ever saw T-Dog's zombie.

hahaha...T-Dawg got treated the same way in undeath as he did in life!

Rude!

Maybe he'll meet up with Winnebago Jim, Greene Farm Jimmy, and Patricia!

That would make an awesome final episode; Rick's Roving Band-o-Yahoos gets surrounded by all the former group members that got thrown under the bus.

[NumberCruncher]

Is it sad to say that this is one of my favorite seasons because we got to see Lori and Andrea kick the bucket?

 

No, although I would have been fine with Lori surviving because she was getting a little more tolerable than the disaster she was in S1 and S2.  I cheered when Andrea died though which I know is probably awful.  While I usually applaud female characters who defy sexual stereotypes--I wouldn't want to be stuck doing the laundry just because I'm a girl either--I couldn't endure any more of her recklessness.  She was so desperate to prove herself as "capable" that she lost all perspective and people got hurt, both intentionally (Dale) and unintentionally (Daryl...and pretty much everyone else when she didn't off The Governor).  The other thing that bugged was when she didn't get her way or her ego got bruised, rather than internalizing the reason why, she was immediately looking for how to break away from the group.  She was and still remains the most selfish character on the show to me.

[kikismom]

I just hated Andrea for the hip-slinging. Crap, she even had to sling a hip while Sophia was being shot. If you want to be respected, try not looking like all you need is a lamp-post to lean against and a blue light.

[ghoulina]

Is it sad to say that this is one of my favorite seasons because we got to see Lori and Andrea kick the bucket?

 

Andrea dying was probably one of the best things about this season. It has been my least favorite season so far. I thought it started out really strong, but the Governor story line with Andrea just plodded along for me. I thought I couldn't hate her more after she shot Daryl in season 2, but I was wrong. Her death is the only one (up until that point) that I was not the slightest bit sad about. Shane - I thought he needed to go, but the way it had to come about was very sad. Lori's death just killed me. Gutted me to the core, even though she was far from my favorite character. But Andrea? That death was long overdue. 

[ghoulina]

While I usually applaud female characters who defy sexual stereotypes--I wouldn't want to be stuck doing the laundry just because I'm a girl either--I couldn't endure any more of her recklessness.  She was so desperate to prove herself as "capable" that she lost all perspective and people got hurt, both intentionally (Dale) and unintentionally (Daryl...and pretty much everyone else when she didn't off The Governor).

 

Exactly. While my husband and I practice pretty traditional gender roles in regular life, the ZA is no place to be rigid. Anyone who can do something should, because numbers are limited and shit needs to get done. I liked that in season 2 she wasn't sitting around moping. She would pitch in and help with whatever needed to be done. But the problem was her "look-at-me" attitude about it. She constantly had to prove herself, and yes - it was incredibly reckless, hence the Daryl situation. Then in season 3 she just became this sudden UN Peace Treaty lady, and couldn't see the forest for the trees. She couldn't get a damn thing done this season, especially killing the Governor. She had plenty of capabilities, but turned out to be completely useless. 

[kj4ever]

The Governor had her number. When he took his "break" and told her to take charge he knew she was about to waffle on him and her desire for attention and to be important would overrule the common sense thought of how oh maybe a guy with heads in a fish tank might not be the most sane person.

[mandolin]

Andrea dying was probably one of the best things about this season. It has been my least favorite season so far. I thought it started out really strong, but the Governor story line with Andrea just plodded along for me. I thought I couldn't hate her more after she shot Daryl in season 2, but I was wrong. Her death is the only one (up until that point) that I was not the slightest bit sad about. Shane - I thought he needed to go, but the way it had to come about was very sad. Lori's death just killed me. Gutted me to the core, even though she was far from my favorite character. But Andrea? That death was long overdue. 

I agree with a lot of this re: Andrea. While I thought Shane was out of control, his death was hard. I HATED Lori, but I cried during her death scene. That one scene just about redeemed her whole character for me. The only person I felt sad for during Andrea's death scene was Michonne, and even then I just kind of felt sorry that Michonne got stuck with Andrea all winter instead of someone better (heck, Patricia would've been better). I was relieved that we no longer had to deal with her inflated ego and uselessness. (How I long for ComicAndrea.)

[kj4ever]

Speaking of comic book Andrea, do you think they might have wanted her to develop into that but that the Andrea hate was going on so strong in season 2 that they decided on her death arc in season 3?

[mandolin]

Judging by how quickly she got annoying, I don't know if they ever saw that future for tvAndrea. I can't think of a reason why they didn't go that route, though.

[ghoulina]

The only person I felt sad for during Andrea's death scene was Michonne, and even then I just kind of felt sorry that Michonne got stuck with Andrea all winter instead of someone better..

 

I felt relieved for Michonne. Andrea really dragged her down. All Michonne did during most of season 3 was glower. It was only when she got away from her, namely around Rick and Carl, that she started to have a real personality. 

 

 

 

Judging by how quickly she got annoying, I don't know if they ever saw that future for tvAndrea. I can't think of a reason why they didn't go that route, though.

 

Yea, she annoyed me from the get-go - when she stuck her gun in Rick's face. I was just like, "who IS this bitch??" And she just never really got any better. The only moment I remember REALLY liking Andrea was when she was running through the woods after the farm burned down. She was all alone and desperate, but she just kept going and going. There was no one there to prove herself to, it just about pure survival. But then she went to Woodbury and started sucking all over again.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ghoulina

[bunnyblue]

Season 3 was kind of weird for me. I loved all the prison stuff. The taking of the prison; no Shane; Axl & Oscar; Merle's return; the introduction of Tyreese & Sasha. I loved Michonne's intro & eventual acceptance by the prison gang. I didn't like Lori but I thought her death was well done and powerful. I enjoyed the continued evolution of Carol, and Herhsel becoming the moral center of the group. Basically all the goings-on at the prison were entertaining and kept my interest.

 

But boy did I hate Woodbury & the Governor. I remember reading spoilers for this season and most everyone was salivating and raving about how awesome the Governor & Woodbury story arc was in the comics and how it was going to be great on the show. NOPE. The Governor was a ridiculous & over the top villain; his henchmen were cartoons; Milton was an idiot with his note taking and useless observations; the other residents veered from helpless to pitchfork wielding fools. I mean, the arena fight-to-the-death match with the bloodthirsty crowd was cringe worthy. Woodbury took up far too much airtime and when I rewatch this season I fast forward all Woodbury scenes unless they involve the prison gang.

 

And Andrea. Other posters said it best:

 

 

I couldn't endure any more of her recklessness.  She was so desperate to prove herself as "capable" that she lost all perspective and people got hurt, both intentionally (Dale) and unintentionally (Daryl...and pretty much everyone else when she didn't off The Governor).

 

 

I just hated Andrea for the hip-slinging. Crap, she even had to sling a hip while Sophia was being shot.

 

 

Yea, she annoyed me from the get-go - when she stuck her gun in Rick's face. I was just like, "who IS this bitch??" And she just never really got any better.

 

I never liked Andrea but Woodbury brought out the worst in her. Being the "first lady" inflated her ego to epic proportions. I laughed at her when she tried to mediate the Rick & Governor meeting and they told her to get the hell out. She thought far too highly of herself. I was so glad the prison gang didn't get to her in time and Milton chomped on her. The only time he was ever useful.

[ghoulina]

Woodbury took up far too much airtime...

 

That and, as you and others have said, how cartoonish it was were the main problems. I found the governor episodes in season 4 much more tolerable. It was then that I could see the regular guy he had been and how this whole thing had ruined him. It was not as over-the-top and he almost became sympathetic. In a way. Not that what he did was excusable. But I found it interesting and sad to see the lengths someone would go to protect their child, even after she was long gone. If they had toned him down the first go-round, and cut his air time in half, season 3 would have been a lot better. 

[Iguessnot]

Let me preface my question by saying I watched season four live, but I've gone back to the previous seasons so watch all I missed. Currently I'm in the midst of season 3, well after the birth of Judith. From TWOP that Lori was hated but I hadn't ever seen her episodes. Right now I'm in the midst of season 3. I just finished the episode that ends with Michonne bringing the formula to the prison.

 

Anyway my question is about Lori. I didn't care for her but she didn't bother me like Andrea or that horrid girl Beth. She made some wrong moves with Shane but I appreciate that she wasn't ambiguous in her return to Rick. But when this season started, she and Rick were clearly estranged but I couldn't figure out why. I know their relationship was initially rocky and the love triangle and murder didn't help, but I feel I missed something. Curses on TWOP for scrubbing the forums and denying us all that fabulous research material. Can someone fill me in?

[kj4ever]

I always assumed it was because she totally Lady Macbethed him then totally treated him like he was a monster when he actually went through with it.

[mandolin]

In the last episode of season 2, Rick tells everyone that they are all infected. That gives her pause as they'd been hiding things from each other all season, but she kind of gets over it. Then, when he tells her that he killed Shane (because Shane tried to kill him!), and that Carl put down WalkerShane, she lost it. She backed away from him physically, then shoved his hand away when he tried to touch her shoulder and that was that. Oh, and then she made super bug eyes when he declared that their group was no longer a democracy. (Yes, I've seen "Beside the Dying Fire" quite a few times! One of my favorites.)

[kj4ever]

In the last episode of season 2, Rick tells everyone that they are all infected. That gives her pause as they'd been hiding things from each other all season, but she kind of gets over it. Then, when he tells her that he killed Shane (because Shane tried to kill him!), and that Carl put down WalkerShane, she lost it. She backed away from him physically, then shoved his hand away when he tried to touch her shoulder and that was that. Oh, and then she made super bug eyes when he declared that their group was no longer a democracy. (Yes, I've seen "Beside the Dying Fire" quite a few times! One of my favorites.)

Didn't she make super bug eyes anytime she tried to convey emotion?  :)

[kikismom]

On TWD there is Loriface, Daleface,Tyreeseface, Rickeyes. Michonneyes, Eugenewalk, and Tarawhine.

[mandolin]

Yes, she did! Loriface, Daleface, Tyreeseface are all kind of similar. That teaser last night was a pretty good example.

 

Rick staring off into the middle distance, however...one of my favorites! I haven't noticed Eugenewalk, and I just finished my rewatch of season 4. Hmm. Maybe I'll have to go look. Not a big Tara fan, so I'm aware of that one.

[ghoulina]

I think the thing was, a few episodes prior Lori was whispering in Rick's ear about how dangerous Shane was, and how he wanted Rick's family for his own. So then it all comes to head, Rick kills Shane (albeit in self defense), and Lori has the nerve to act all disgusted with him? When it seemed like that's exactly what she wanted??? I think at that point Rick had had enough. He forgave a lot with her, with both of them. He never gave her shit about sleeping with Shane when she thought he was dead. He accepted the fact that she was pregnant, even though the baby might not be his. But when she treated him like a monster for basically finishing the mess she helped start, that was the final straw. 

 

And, FTR, I didn't hate Lori. I didn't hate Shane. I think they got into a messed up situation and were all having a real hard time figuring out how to move on from it. I think they all made mistakes, and I think Lori definitely realized hers and was trying to atone for them during season 3. That's what made her death so hard for me (and for Rick) - there was all that unfinished business. I told my husband the other night, "If the ZA comes down, and you get mad at me about something, please just don't stay mad very long. I don't want either of us to die with any unresolved issues". 

[kj4ever]

I think the thing was, a few episodes prior Lori was whispering in Rick's ear about how dangerous Shane was, and how he wanted Rick's family for his own. So then it all comes to head, Rick kills Shane (albeit in self defense), and Lori has the nerve to act all disgusted with him? When it seemed like that's exactly what she wanted??? I think at that point Rick had had enough. He forgave a lot with her, with both of them. He never gave her shit about sleeping with Shane when she thought he was dead. He accepted the fact that she was pregnant, even though the baby might not be his. But when she treated him like a monster for basically finishing the mess she helped start, that was the final straw. 

 

And, FTR, I didn't hate Lori. I didn't hate Shane. I think they got into a messed up situation and were all having a real hard time figuring out how to move on from it. I think they all made mistakes, and I think Lori definitely realized hers and was trying to atone for them during season 3. That's what made her death so hard for me (and for Rick) - there was all that unfinished business. I told my husband the other night, "If the ZA comes down, and you get mad at me about something, please just don't stay mad very long. I don't want either of us to die with any unresolved issues". 

I did hate Lori, but then again I hated her from the very first flashback when Rick and Shane were talking and Rick told the story about Lori saying "I don't even know if you love us" in front of Carl. 

 

I totally got it when Rick was on the psychic phone network and he said "I couldn't open that door, I couldn't take the chance".  I think Lori had a cruel streak long before the ZA, and she knew how to hurt people.  Rick forgave a lot of crap from her like you said, but I think there was a history of her hurting him.  I know, I know, she thought he was dead when she slept with Shane, but thought he was dead for what, a couple of weeks?  Hell probably less since Shane said they had carried on quite a bit before Rick turned up again.  I could almost be like whatever when it comes to that but the fact that she left her kid to have a woodsie booty call?  Unforgiveable in my eyes. 

 

I'll always be harder on the Moms, whether right or wrong.  My Mom kicked ass and no one messed with her kids, so all these moronic Moms in this series have a very high standard to live up to in my eyes I guess.

[ghoulina]

P.S. If there's a Eugene Walk, there needs to be a Shane Walk as well. 

[ghoulina]

I did hate Lori, but then again I hated her from the very first flashback when Rick and Shane were talking and Rick told the story about Lori saying "I don't even know if you love us" in front of Carl.

I totally got it when Rick was on the psychic phone network and he said "I couldn't open that door, I couldn't take the chance".  I think Lori had a cruel streak long before the ZA, and she knew how to hurt people.  Rick forgave a lot of crap from her like you said, but I think there was a history of her hurting him.  I know, I know, she thought he was dead when she slept with Shane, but thought he was dead for what, a couple of weeks?  Hell probably less since Shane said they had carried on quite a bit before Rick turned up again.  I could almost be like whatever when it comes to that but the fact that she left her kid to have a woodsie booty call?  Unforgiveable in my eyes.

 

I'll always be harder on the Moms, whether right or wrong.  My Mom kicked ass and no one messed with her kids, so all these moronic Moms in this series have a very high standard to live up to in my eyes I guess.

 

Yes, it did seem like Lori had a history of pushing buttons. But I don't think their marriage issues were completely one-sided. We really didn't get a full background on them, but I got the impression Lori was feeling frustrated because Rick was emotionally unavailable. Which isn't uncommon with cops. They have to learn to shut down so they can deal with the gruesome parts of their job, and sometimes it's hard to open back up. But she was complaining about how he would never get upset, never yell - to her it might have seemed like he didn't care. Like he was just going through the motions. Should she have said that in front of her kid? Absolutely not. But I don't think it was the case of Lori always being a horrible bitch to Rick and Rick being a saint. 

 

Over my many re-watches, I have cared less and less about Lori and Shane sleeping together. Yes, it happened quick. But EVERYTHING in an apocalyptic situation is going to happen quickly. That's just the nature of never knowing if the next day is your last. Look at Maggie and Glenn. They weren't at the farm more than a week before they're in love and Hershel is handing out heirloom pocket watches. Okay, two weeks, max. Anyhow, I think Lori was looking for comfort and safety and it's really quite natural. In a way, I almost think - who better to step in and fill your role once you pass than your best friend who already knows your family and cares for you? Rick seemed to understand and forgive that aspect easily, so I don't have a problem with it either. 

 

Now Lori's mothering, that's an entirely different story. I definitely think she was way too caught up in her own drama during those first few weeks and was not being a great mother to Carl. There are so many examples, I can't even count. But her letting him watch the barn incident, instead of running WITH him to the house and staying put was a big one for me. But here's the thing - we're all fallible. We all make mistakes. The way I judge someone is whether they can admit their mistakes, learn from them, and move on. It really seemed to me like Lori was trying to do that in season 3 (and probably had been the entire 6 months of winter that we didn't see them). She KNEW she fucked up. She admitted to being a bad wife and mother. She was trying to make things right, when her life was cut short. So I just can't hate her. She was human and she was flawed, but I do think she loved her husband and son beyond a doubt. 

[kikismom]

Yes, she did! Loriface, Daleface, Tyreeseface are all kind of similar. That teaser last night was a pretty good example.

 

Rick staring off into the middle distance, however...one of my favorites! I haven't noticed Eugenewalk, and I just finished my rewatch of season 4. Hmm. Maybe I'll have to go look. Not a big Tara fan, so I'm aware of that one.

Eugenewalk is almost like that character on SNL, or the one on Seinfeld...walking without moving your arms.

[mandolin]

Now Lori's mothering, that's an entirely different story. I definitely think she was way too caught up in her own drama during those first few weeks and was not being a great mother to Carl. There are so many examples, I can't even count. But her letting him watch the barn incident, instead of running WITH him to the house and staying put was a big one for me. But here's the thing - we're all fallible. We all make mistakes. The way I judge someone is whether they can admit their mistakes, learn from them, and move on. It really seemed to me like Lori was trying to do that in season 3 (and probably had been the entire 6 months of winter that we didn't see them). She KNEW she fucked up. She admitted to being a bad wife and mother. She was trying to make things right, when her life was cut short. So I just can't hate her. She was human and she was flawed, but I do think she loved her husband and son beyond a doubt. 

I think Lori does see that she made (many, many) mistakes, and while she tells Rick that she's been a bad wife and mother, I don't think her admitting that necessarily equates to her trying to be better from that point on. Every time in early season 3 when she thanks Rick for something, it seems almost condescending. "I appreciate what you're doing...we all do, but..." Always a "but" with her. "We need to talk about things, Rick." Lori! Let the man get a secure place to live. Maybe their pre-ZA problems were that she wanted him to talk/yell/whatever, but he shows he cares by doing, not talking. Maybe their love languages are different. :P She never seemed sincere to me, and I fully admit that I did not care for SWC in this role (and I can hardly go back to watch her in Prison Break either, and I can't imagine seeing that recent movie she made). I know it's a hard thing, but Rick moved past so much, but her rejecting him when he probably needed her support after Shane died...I don't think he wanted to keep being pushed away.

 

As far as keeping Carl safe, even in the prison, he runs off to get medical supplies for Hershel without her knowing. That is your child, woman! Stay on him! I make mistakes with my kids, but keeping them safe (alive!) is the top of my list.

Edited August 27, 2014 by mandolin

[kj4ever]

I think Lori does see that she made (many, many) mistakes, and while she tells Rick that she's been a bad wife and mother, I don't think her admitting that necessarily equates to her trying to be better from that point on. Every time in early season 3 when she thanks Rick for something, it seems almost condescending. "I appreciate what you're doing...we all do, but..." Always a "but" with her. "We need to talk about things, Rick." Lori! Let the man get a secure place to live. Maybe their pre-ZA problems were that she wanted him to talk/yell/whatever, but he shows he cares by doing, not talking. Maybe their love languages are different. :P She never seemed sincere to me, and I fully admit that I did not care for SWC in this role (and I can hardly go back to watch her in Prison Break either, and I can't imagine seeing that recent movie she made). I know it's a hard thing, but Rick moved past so much, but her rejecting him when he probably needed her support after Shane died...I don't think he wanted to keep being pushed away.

 

As far as keeping Carl safe, even in the prison, he runs off to get medical supplies for Hershel without her knowing. That is your child, woman! Stay on him! I make mistakes with my kids, but keeping them safe (alive!) is the top of my list.

At first I thought the whole pushing away from Rick when he tells her was because Carl put him down after he became a Walker, but she stops hugging him and steps away as soon as he tells her he killed Shane.  Cold.  She just gets more upset when she finds out about Carl, which if she was watching her damn kid he wouldn't have been there to begin with.

 

The thanks you's and niceties from Season 3 did sometimes have that back bite, but I figured most of them were because she knew she wasn't in very good standing with the group which is not a place you want to be in during the ZA.  As for Carl running off and getting medical supplies, she should have whooped him good.  I know now that is considered child abuse, but in the ZA children better learn real quick to listen.  If this was "real" Carl never would have made it out of season two alive.  There is a reason why there were harsher punishments for children when the world was a more dangerous place, and why we don't need them now.

 

I've seen lots of people say you can't watch your kid all the time but yes, yes you can and should if you know they don't listen at. all. and there is a ZA going on!

 

Oh, and edited because I was to quick on the Reply button....I don't think Rick is anywhere near to being perfect and the man does have his issues too.  I think his issues were fleshed out better, like how she said she just wanted him to yell.  She obviously had no problem saying hateful things (in front of the kid too) so his answer was to shut down.  That would drive me crazy too, but I think that comes with the territory a lot of times when you marry a cop.

Edited August 27, 2014 by kj4ever

[Portia]

 

Eugenewalk is almost like that character on SNL, or the one on Seinfeld...walking without moving your arms.

 

 

Back when Eugene had just appeared on the series, I remember tweeting, "Eugene, people would like you more if you'd swing your arms when you walk."

[ghoulina]

What I think is interesting with Rick and Lori was that they almost seemed to reverse roles. She complained to her friend that she would almost kind of bait him, but he would never get mad. Never yell. Always be so easy-going. There were a lot of times on the farm when Rick would ask Lori's opinion and she'd always be like, "I support your decision." or "You're doing your best". And it almost seemed like he WANTED her to disagree with him once. HE wanted HER to get mad and yell. I wonder if he felt she was being unauthentic with all of her niceties and support, in an effort to atone for sleeping with Shane? So then HE kind of became the "mean" one. When he told her what happened with Shane, it almost seemed like he was being a bit harsh intentionally. But that's just my read on it. I felt like he was provoking her to be real again and not just this fake, dutiful wife. 

[ladyrott]

 When he told her what happened with Shane, it almost seemed like he was being a bit harsh intentionally. But that's just my read on it. I felt like he was provoking her to be real again and not just this fake, dutiful wife.When he told her what happened with Shane, it almost seemed like he was being a bit harsh intentionally. But that's just my read on it. I felt like he was provoking her to be real again and not just this fake, dutiful wife.

 

 

Ghoulina, I felt the same way about that scene.   Originally, I felt like he was so harsh because he was angry...angry that her infidelity put them there, angry that he had to kill his best friend, angry that his SON had to put down someone he loved, etc....but over time, I started thinking along the lines you were.  I felt like he was tired of the dutiful wife role she had placed herself in (whether to make up for what she had done or because it was what she thought she should do to support Rick and keep the group together) and wanted a reaction, wanted her to behave like the wife he knew prior to the ZA.

[Iguessnot]

Thanks for the followup. I think during my marathon I missed a scene. I'll have to rewatch it.

[ghoulina]

Ghoulina, I felt the same way about that scene.   Originally, I felt like he was so harsh because he was angry...angry that her infidelity put them there, angry that he had to kill his best friend, angry that his SON had to put down someone he loved, etc....but over time, I started thinking along the lines you were.  I felt like he was tired of the dutiful wife role she had placed herself in (whether to make up for what she had done or because it was what she thought she should do to support Rick and keep the group together) and wanted a reaction, wanted her to behave like the wife he knew prior to the ZA.

 

Yup. At first I thought he was just venting, letting it all out after what a horrible thing he had been through. But as I've rewatched this time, I just noticed the way he would look at Lori after he told her something. It was like he was waiting for a reaction and felt a bit befuddled when she just doled out another, "I support whatever you need to do". 

 

For the record, I don't necessarily think it was BAD of her to act this way. I think the problem is that he just couldn't tell if she was really being supportive no matter what in the interest of group cohesion, or if it was simply out of guilt. 

[ghoulina]

Started the season 3 part of my marathon, watched "Seed" this morning. 

 

Two most annoying parts - when Rick wouldn't let Carl eat the dog food. I get it, you have pride. But damn, if the kid's hungry and you don't have anything else, let him have it. I'd totally eat dog food if I had to in the ZA!

 

And why in the seven hells did they bring Hershel down to check out the tombs? They didn't use him to clear the yard or the cell block, but now suddenly he needs to go on a mission? 

 

All that aside, I loved this episode. I loved the smile on Rick's face when he won them that prison (well, part of it). That was a huge accomplishment. Plus, I just loved seeing how much everyone had changed since the end of season 2. 

 

Favorite part - when Carol almost shoots Rick and just mumbles, "sorry". 

[kj4ever]

Started the season 3 part of my marathon, watched "Seed" this morning. 

 

Two most annoying parts - when Rick wouldn't let Carl eat the dog food. I get it, you have pride. But damn, if the kid's hungry and you don't have anything else, let him have it. I'd totally eat dog food if I had to in the ZA!

 

And why in the seven hells did they bring Hershel down to check out the tombs? They didn't use him to clear the yard or the cell block, but now suddenly he needs to go on a mission? 

 

All that aside, I loved this episode. I loved the smile on Rick's face when he won them that prison (well, part of it). That was a huge accomplishment. Plus, I just loved seeing how much everyone had changed since the end of season 2. 

 

Favorite part - when Carol almost shoots Rick and just mumbles, "sorry". 

I love love love Seed.  I didn't quite get why Herschel all of a sudden had to go with to The Tombs.  I always assumed it was Herschel that wanted to do it.  He was pretty spry for an old dude before he lost his leg.  On the negative side, this episode gave me so much hope for the rest of the season, and we got Rick losing it and chasing Ghost Lori, who managed to be just as freakin' annoying as Alive Lori without saying a word.  Add in the Andreacentric episodes and I might not have made it through this season if I hadn't marathoned.

[ghoulina]

I agree. This season started out really strong. I loved Seed and Sick was pretty good as well. Walk with Me was kind of boring, but Killer Within was a riveting hour (okay, 45 minutes) of television. We were marathoning at this point too, so I thought - okay 3 our 4 good episodes on disc one, off to a good start. But then, sigh.....yea. It was just too much Andrea and the Governor, and since I didn't give a flying fig about Andrea I didn't really care what happened to her. At all. Like that entire episode of her being chased by the Gov - was it "Prey"? I just could not have cared less. Kill each other somehow and let's be done with it! Clear and This Sorrowful Life were pretty damn good towards the end, but there was a lot of middle that just muddled things up. 

P.S. Bringing this over from the season 4 thread, but I'm pretty sure when they first entered the prison Lori had a side braid. Bitch should have saw it coming. 

[eejm]

I really liked Axel and Oscar.  I was sad to see them go, especially after Axel started bonding with Carol. 

 

One of my favorite scenes from the entire show was when Daryl and Carl bonded about their mothers just before they found Carol.  We hadn't really seen those two connect before that time, and I don't think Carl would have responded to any usual types of comfort regarding his mom's death. 

[ghoulina]

I loved that scene too. I felt so awful for Carl after Lori's death. His dad is having a meltdown on the ground, and everyone else is just standing there. I'm like - someone give Carl a hug! Then Rick disappears down into the tombs and is having phone calls with ghosts. Who steps up and makes sure Carl is okay? Daryl. Who runs out and gets formula for LAK? Daryl. He's a great guy. He may be rough around the edges, but he has a heart. Just last night I was watching "Sick" and after leaving Oscar and Axel in their own cell block full of dead bodies, Daryl tells them he's sorry about Big Tiny. And it was totally genuine. He definitely makes a better #2 for Rick than Shane ever did.

[eejm]

I loved that scene too. I felt so awful for Carl after Lori's death. His dad is having a meltdown on the ground, and everyone else is just standing there. I'm like - someone give Carl a hug! Then Rick disappears down into the tombs and is having phone calls with ghosts. Who steps up and makes sure Carl is okay? Daryl. Who runs out and gets formula for LAK? Daryl. He's a great guy. He may be rough around the edges, but he has a heart. Just last night I was watching "Sick" and after leaving Oscar and Axel in their own cell block full of dead bodies, Daryl tells them he's sorry about Big Tiny. And it was totally genuine. He definitely makes a better #2 for Rick than Shane ever did.

 

I wouldn't call myself a Daryl fangirl (he's a little too rough around the edges for me), but he was pretty damned awesome in that episode, wasn't he?

[ghoulina]

Someone please tell me when I will be able to get through Killer Within without bawling my eyes out.

Also, I forgot how glowery Michonne was. Danai really has shown a lot of growth since early season 3.

[mandolin]

As much as I dislike Lori, that scene is heartbreaking. Absolutely.

It strikes me every time how similar Michonne's "welcome" into the prison is like that into Woodbury. In a room, guarded, weapons taken.

[AngelaHunter]

His dad is having a meltdown on the ground, and everyone else is just standing there. I'm like - someone give Carl a hug!

 

That bugged me no end. What a great comfort Rick was to his child who had just had to, you know, shoot his mother in the head after watching her stomach being cut open. I'm pretty sure it was mainly guilt that made Rick carry on that way, but still, I wanted to slap him.

[ghoulina]

Oh yea, I think he had a lot of guilt, and there was just so much unfinished business there. They were SLOWLY starting to work back towards each other. Just that morning the had stood, looking at each other across the yard, the barest hint of a smile on his face. To have it end the way it did was so heartbreaking. I can see why Rick went crazy, but no one else could have walked up and hugged him? Carol? Beth? Anyone???

[AngelaHunter]

but no one else could have walked up and hugged him?

 

I don't even particularly care about Carl and I wanted to hug him. He needed his father to comfort him, or at least include him in his grief, as the loss was theirs.

[kj4ever]

I don't even particularly care about Carl and I wanted to hug him. He needed his father to comfort him, or at least include him in his grief, as the loss was theirs.

Yes yet another parenting fail on TWD.  I don't see how any children survive in that world!  Do these people not have basic instincts or what?  I hated how he didn't even look at the baby when he came back from the boiler room to check on Carl.  Total dick move.

[ghoulina]

I just can't get over Backpack Guy. And it's always a point of contention in my house. I felt so awful for him and wanted them to pick him up, but my husband always says - "He's a stranger! Rick couldn't just let him into the car with his son". Pat him down first. Take any weapons. They were mostly ALL strangers to each other at one point. Sheesh. Then on the way back to the prison - oh NOW you have the time to stop, for his freaking backpack. Mmmhmmm

[NurseGiGi]

Oh yes, I didn't care for Lori, either, but cried like a baby during that scene.  I might not have if I had known how many times I would be subjected to Ghost Lori in future episodes.

 

I'm blaming my dislike of Andrea on the actress who played her.  I cheered when Milton bit that smirk off her face.

[kikismom]

I just can't get over Backpack Guy. And it's always a point of contention in my house. I felt so awful for him and wanted them to pick him up, but my husband always says - "He's a stranger! Rick couldn't just let him into the car with his son". Pat him down first. Take any weapons. They were mostly ALL strangers to each other at one point. Sheesh. Then on the way back to the prison - oh NOW you have the time to stop, for his freaking backpack. Mmmhmmm

There's three of them: hold the guy at gunpoint and search him, as you said. Damn, pop the trunk and let him ride in that. I doubt he would turn up his nose at any kind of lift just to get out of there.

This is where I have a problem with Unconditional Rick Love. He counts killing someone as physically shooting strangling stabbing...I say there are crimes of omission as bad as crimes of commission. If you don't feed your baby, you didn't attack it but you are guilty of murder. Rick was the difference between life and death for several people...but he's off the hook because he didn't use his hands? I'm not buying that. My feelings of guilt would be the same. Just once I'd like to see him own his choices factoring in the death of quite a number of people.

[ghoulina]

Oh I've never unconditionally loved Rick. I love Rick. He's one of my favorite characters and I think he has done a pretty damn good job with his group. But he fucks up just like everyone else. However, while he may not have openly said anything, I do think he has owned that he fucked up within himself and tried to atone for it. I think that's why at the end of season 3 he went back for all of Woodbury and let them into the prison. He had spent so long shunning any new person who came around, having zero trust - which, I can't really blame him for that. After his best friend tried to kill him and then being attacked by the prisoners he was trying to help....he was done. But I think in the end he realized he had swung too far to the other side. Numbers matter in a world where you're losing your own every time you turn around. And you were taken in once by strangers, you need to be able to do the same for others - cautiously of course. I think he finally got that, and that's when they started building the prison into a community. 

[AngelaHunter]

I just can't get over Backpack Guy

 

I was saying that to someone - that of all the horrific scenes we witnessed that, in my mind, was one of the most brutal and shocking of all.

 

Of course I have no idea what my behavior would be in the aftermath of an apocalypse, but I like to think I wouldn't ignore a fellow human being desperately begging for help. However, it was a great moment in the show that conveyed so much with no words.

[kj4ever]

I give them a pass on the backpack dude.  Merle had just warned them that the Governor would have look outs everywhere and they were gearing up for "war".  Not a good time to trust strangers, and the good old G man liked to play dirty.  I wouldn't put it past him to plant someone looking distressed to get at them.