S01.E10: One Way Out

[wmdekooning]

7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I know you are making light in your faux scenario, but I don't know if you've seen Rogue One.

I did see the “Rogue One” and while my details and memory of the film are hazy, nonetheless I do consider it one of the better non-OG trilogy films. My intent is to watch it again soonest as Donnie Yen does provide one of the more embarrassing deaths to one very unfortunate stormtrooper.

 I do have to make light however, after one of my schoolmates reminded me of the Eddie Izard “Star Wars”/American vs British film routine…

Edited November 14, 2022 by wmdekooning

[Shanna Marie]

It's occurred to me that the guards in this prison may not be in a much better situation than the prisoners are.

I somehow doubt that the Empire would bother allocating the resources to shuttle the guards back and forth to some other base at the end of every shift, so they're probably living in the prison. The differences between them and the prisoners might just be that their rooms (and bathrooms) have doors, they always get flavor in their food, and the floors around their rooms aren't electrified (or maybe they are, to protect them from the prisoners, and the guards get boots). It's not exactly a skilled labor position. They just need people who are willing to push the button to activate the floors. The only real interaction between guards and prisoners is when new prisoners are brought in, processed, and sent to their assignments. If they're getting lodging and food, that might be considered part of their compensation, so they'd only get a pittance in actual payment, and where are they going to spend it? Theoretically, they might be able to quit if they decide they don't like this job, but I wonder if the Empire would actually allow it. The guards know too much about how the prisons work and what they're making (maybe not details about what it is and why, but it might not be information the Empire wants getting out because someone could put that info together with other info, so you don't want some idiot ex-guard getting drunk and rambling about his last job). So, would a guard who tries to quit find himself as a prisoner? The guards being freer than the prisoners might only be an illusion. They have boots and guns, but there's still only one way out.

And that might be why they're using human labor instead of droids. Maintaining and operating droids would require more skilled labor, people you wouldn't want to warehouse in a prison like that and who might be harder to control than the grunts needed to keep the slave laborers in line. Everyone in this prison, from the prisoners to the staff, is expendable.

[Raja]

41 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It's occurred to me that the guards in this prison may not be in a much better situation than the prisoners are.

I somehow doubt that the Empire would bother allocating the resources to shuttle the guards back and forth to some other base at the end of every shift, so they're probably living in the prison. The differences between them and the prisoners might just be that their rooms (and bathrooms) have doors, they always get flavor in their food, and the floors around their rooms aren't electrified (or maybe they are, to protect them from the prisoners, and the guards get boots). It's not exactly a skilled labor position. They just need people who are willing to push the button to activate the floors. The only real interaction between guards and prisoners is when new prisoners are brought in, processed, and sent to their assignments. If they're getting lodging and food, that might be considered part of their compensation, so they'd only get a pittance in actual payment, and where are they going to spend it? Theoretically, they might be able to quit if they decide they don't like this job, but I wonder if the Empire would actually allow it. The guards know too much about how the prisons work and what they're making (maybe not details about what it is and why, but it might not be information the Empire wants getting out because someone could put that info together with other info, so you don't want some idiot ex-guard getting drunk and rambling about his last job). So, would a guard who tries to quit find himself as a prisoner? The guards being freer than the prisoners might only be an illusion. They have boots and guns, but there's still only one way out.

And that might be why they're using human labor instead of droids. Maintaining and operating droids would require more skilled labor, people you wouldn't want to warehouse in a prison like that and who might be harder to control than the grunts needed to keep the slave laborers in line. Everyone in this prison, from the prisoners to the staff, is expendable.

This is where my lack of Star Wars universe comes into play but I just assumed the guards were in the Imperial Army and stationed as prison guards, with the local cops as represented by Syril being an exception by this point. So pretty much the same job a cousin of mine had as a Naval Reservist who was activated to help guard POWs in 2002, more so than my sister who was a California Correctional Officer where that greater level pay and benefits were expected.

As the riot started I though of course they don't call in for help as they knew that they would be nuked along with the prisoners.

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

This is where my lack of Star Wars universe comes into play but I just assumed the guards were in the Imperial Army and stationed as prison guards, with the local cops as represented by Syril being an exception by this point.

I don't know enough about the universe, either. These aren't POWs, so it really shouldn't be a military prison or under the jurisdiction of the Imperial military, but regimes like the Empire have a very blurry line between police and military. So I don't know if these are law enforcement prison guards or Imperial military assigned to the prison. Either way, I wouldn't think you'd assign your best and brightest to a place like that. Most of the guards, aside from the creepy one who got a sadistic pleasure from causing the prisoners pain, seemed to be pretty young, but I doubt they're on the fast track to leadership. If they're military, they have no choice in being there and they may even be conscripts, which would make the gulf between them and the prisoners even slimmer.

I don't think Syril was technically a local cop, though. He was corporate security, but it was a corporation that essentially governed the region so again the lines are blurry. He was corporate security with law enforcement authority, I guess kind of like how places like airports and universities might have their own police forces. He was essentially a mall cop, but with a bigger jurisdiction.

3 hours ago, Raja said:

As the riot started I though of course they don't call in for help as they knew that they would be nuked along with the prisoners.

Very likely, since the Empire has multiple things to keep quiet here -- the fact that they're using people arrested for minor crimes for slave labor and they'll never be allowed to leave, what they're building, and now the fact that there was such an utter failure. If they were willing to kill a whole section of the prison to keep the fact that no one was getting out quiet, they'd probably nuke the whole prison, guards and all, to keep all of that quiet.

[bethy]

Andy Serkis was really a revelation to me in this episode. Obviously I know him from LoTR and those movies where he's playing CGI type characters, but I found him kind of OTT as Klaue in the Marvel movies. Here, though? Man. He was riveting. You think Kino is going to just be a one-dimensional, hardass, selfish prison overseer, but he ends up being so much more. He cares for his men, even as he's trying to survive as best he can. He really wanted Ulaf to make it to freedom, and I thought it was absolutely amazing that at one point when he and Cassian are trying to save the man, Kino calls him "Ullie." And just the look on his face at the end of that episode when Cassian asks him again how many guards and he says, "Twelve" (or whatever the exact line was) was so powerful. 

[dwmarch]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:51 AM, Shanna Marie said:

It's occurred to me that the guards in this prison may not be in a much better situation than the prisoners are.

I think the biggest hint to this is when Kino snaps "on program!" at the guards in the control center and they automatically do it. There was also that brief shot of a dozen or so guards cowering behind a door, keeping their heads down and waiting for their release. I'm not sure how safe or advisable it would be to have former prisoners as guards but it would not surprise me to see the Empire doing some Stanford Prison experiment shit.

[Shanna Marie]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, dwmarch said:

I'm not sure how safe or advisable it would be to have former prisoners as guards but it would not surprise me to see the Empire doing some Stanford Prison experiment shit.

That older one who seemed to get a sadistic thrill out of demonstrating the floor strikes me as someone who might have been a former prisoner, the kind of person whose response to suffering is to make other people suffer, too. We know they're using prisoners as medics. But I also imagine that those cowering guards may end up in white jumpsuits in a different prison, and they'd be too terrified to let any of their fellow prisoners know they were former guards, so they'd also be too afraid to tell anyone about the prison break or how they know no one is getting out. I doubt those guards are going to be allowed back out into the general public anywhere.

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That older one who seemed to get a sadistic thrill out of demonstrating the floor strikes me as someone who might have been a former prisoner, the kind of person whose response to suffering is to make other people suffer, too. We know they're using prisoners as medics. But I also imagine that those cowering guards may end up in white jumpsuits in a different prison, and they'd be too terrified to let any of their fellow prisoners know they were former guards, so they'd also be too afraid to tell anyone about the prison break or how they know no one is getting out. I doubt those guards are going to be allowed back out into the general public anywhere.

Yeah, there's no way the Empire's letting the guards leave ever. They probably have the same "retirement" plan as the prisoners.    

[Camera One]

That escape was a good climax to the arc.  It was great to see the prisoners helping one another, and of course it's always great to see Cassian being smart.  I'll have to add to all the comments about Andy Serkis' performance being excellent. 

I really thought they were all going to be stuck at the top with no transport (as the cliffhanger).  I didn't expect they could survive that jump into the water, but I hope lots of them manage to swim that long distance, though we only saw Cassian with one other guy at the end.

I was hoping Sinta would notice that guy who was watching Maarva's house.  Glad the neighbors are helping her out since Cassian and Bix can't.

So Luthen does have someone on the inside.  I don't really remember Lanni from previous episodes.  He really didn't stand out to me.  

Mon's friend should never have suggested meeting that smarmy guy.  Plus now he knows that Mon needs money on the down-low.  

I'm sad there are only 2 more episodes left.  I've been burning through this season pretty quickly, with an episode (or sometimes two) each night this past week.  

Edited December 14, 2022 by Camera One

[jah1986]

Such a great episode. I didn't watch the series when it was first released because I wasn't the biggest fan of Cassian from Rogue One. But a friend told me it's the best show, so I gave it a try. So glad I did! I love this show! These episodes are so tense. Even though I know Cassian and Mon Mothma are going to make it out of the series, I don't know what they're going to have to go through to get there.

I always respected MM in the Star Wars universe, but I love her in this series. The character of Luthen is just so "gray" but SS is knocking it out of the park. I need Karn to be dealt with severely, can not stand him and feel no sympathy. He needs to be careful not to choke on his ambition.

When Andy Serkis showed up I just started cheering, he was so great in this and we'll probably never see this character again. RE: I can't swim, that is real. If you grew up knowing how to swim or can't remember learning it seems like no big deal. But growing up a minority in the inner city, learning how to swim is not a given. I didn't learn until I was in my twenties. And I had to learn to float and learn every kind of stroke. Your body does not just take over, you will drown if you don't know what you're doing. I felt so bad for him.

Are we to assume that only Cassian and the other guy made it to land from the prison break?

On to the final two episodes...