Season 2 Wishlist: More! More! More! Computers!

[Kel Varnsen]

So the show amazingly got renewed for a second season. What would people like to see for that second season. Personally I would like to see much less Joe. Have Boz come back and have him an Gordon run their company. If they have to keep Joe let him be some kind of supporting character advisory type. Then spend as much time with Cameron and Donna at mutiny.  Boz coming back would be a big part of that for me, although I am not really sure how they would do that.

 

I think it would be interesting to see the contrast between Gordon and Donna's work lives. You could have something where they both come home from work and she talks at length about the revolutionary new game that they tested. Then when he talks about his day it will be like "we managed to get the Giant version 2 to run 9.2% faster than the original Giant".

Edited August 21, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[ganesh]

Moar Donna plz!

[dubbel zout]

I like your ideas a lot, Kel Varnsen. I doubt we'll see less Joe, given that Lee Pace is the lead, but it would be nice if Joe stopped sabotaging everything because he's throwing a hissy fit. Maybe we'll get a time jump, and he'll have mellowed out after his observatory vision quest.

 

I'd also like to see Gordon win a few rounds, wherever he ends up.

 

I have to say, I'm STUNNED the show was renewed, given the absolutely terrible ratings. I guess AMC doesn't have anything in the pipeline that it's confident about?

[ganesh]

I'm not much for time jumps, but I think it could work here. It would be interesting if Joe returns and wants to rejoin Cardiff, which is now a smooth operation. Can he sell a nextgen Giant? Definitely. But is he willing to be a team player.

[Yolapukka]

I want Bos back, not at Cardiff, because I don't see someone like Nathan Cardiff being forgiving of his transgressions, even if he profited mightily from them in the end. Besides I think there is a far more interesting story to be told about a logical "what's next" for that character once he's out of prison. I want to see Gordon dealing with his position leading Cardiff instead of moping over it. I want him to come up with a what's next instead of grumping about how Joe had all the big crazy ideas.  Gordon can be a bit of a monster at times, I wonder how far they'll go with that? I enjoy Joe, but I'd be happy to see any of the other characters step into the position of tentpole character for the next season. I feel like one of the strengths of this show is that all four main characters can rotate into the lead and carry the story. Besides I think there could be a very satisfying side story for Joe when he's not the asshole with a mysterious past propelling the main action. I'd be happy for the writers to just let Cameron be Cameron, show us the goings on and growing pains at Mutiny and stop telling us how awesome she is because it sets my teeth on edge and makes me look for reasons to not like her. They did an effective job of extracting the Mary-Sueness out of Donna by season's end,, let them remember that and write accordingly.

Edited August 22, 2014 by yuggapukka

[Kel Varnsen]

I want Bos back, not at Cardiff, because I don't see someone like Nathan Cardiff being forgiving of his transgressions, even if he profited mightily from them in the end. Besides I think there is a far more interesting story to be told about a logical "what's next" for that character once he's out of prison. 

I want Bos back too. Although I am not sure how that would happen, unless his prison sentence was really short. I mean it is not like Old Man Cardiff can say there was just a misunderstanding. He hacked a bank, so the crime would be against the bank not cardiff, and it would be up to the feds if they want to continue with charges or not. If he did come back I could see him playing some kind of advisory role to Cameron's company. I mean she has Donna to help her out with hardware and actual people management, but none of them really know how to run a company (i am thinking of things like paying bills, payroll, marketing, taxes that kind of thing). If the company take off she is going to need to figure that out. Plus I really liked their relationship in season 1.

[Yolapukka]

One thing I'd really like to see is for the show to be a little clearer about time jumps. As much as I appreciate the way they will acknowledge those with details, there needs to be some sort of framing device to let us know to be alert for those details if they aren't going to underline the transition simply by a written note onscreen.  Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a hidden object game when i'm trying to sort out timelines.

 

ETA;

 

re, Bos and jail-time; white collar crime has a history of being treated with sentences that are little more than a wrist slap so between that, it being a first offence and hacking/cyber crime being a relatively new notion, I don't think he'd get a notably long sentence, probably a good portion of it would be served outside of a penitentiary.

Edited August 21, 2014 by yuggapukka

[Kel Varnsen]

re, Bos and jail-time; white collar crime has a history of being treated with sentences that are little more than a wrist slap so between that, it being a first offence and hacking/cyber crime being a relatively new notion, I don't think he'd get a notably long sentence, probably a good portion of it would be served outside of a penitentiary.

I could live with that. I mean the fact that it would be a new crime would be a big one. I could totally see the prosecuting attorneys being like "what exactly do we charge him with?". Also I am not 100% sure of the details of what Bos did. I mean did he transfer money from one Cardiff Electric account to another without authorization (ie spending company money he wasn't supposed to) or did he actually take money from Old Man Cardiff's personal account and transfer it to the company (which would be a much bigger deal).

[Yolapukka]

I could live with that. I mean the fact that it would be a new crime would be a big one. I could totally see the prosecuting attorneys being like "what exactly do we charge him with?". Also I am not 100% sure of the details of what Bos did. I mean did he transfer money from one Cardiff Electric account to another without authorization (ie spending company money he wasn't supposed to) or did he actually take money from Old Man Cardiff's personal account and transfer it to the company (which would be a much bigger deal).

 

 

The PC division had sucked up all the company money. Before the fraud, he'd been asking Nathan Cardiff to invest more into the company to finish the computer and his response had been  a "no", because he wasn't going to risk the family land holdings. I think it was old man Cardiff's personal money that was moved around. 

Edited August 21, 2014 by yuggapukka

[dubbel zout]

I'm okay with handwaving Boz's indiscretions. It wasn't really about him, anyway; it was a plot point to get keep the project going after we'd been told Cardiff was ready to cut off the dough. Given Cardiff's influence, I can buy that Boz's punishment was minimal. Especially if we're shown that the Giant is going gangbusters and making big bucks for the company.

[Hanahope]

I would also presume that with the Giant's success, whatever money was hacked/fraudulently transferred, was ultimately returned, so less of a "harm" to either the bank or Cardiff.  That could also figure into a less sentence for Boz.

[Kel Varnsen]

I would also presume that with the Giant's success, whatever money was hacked/fraudulently transferred, was ultimately returned, so less of a "harm" to either the bank or Cardiff.  That could also figure into a less sentence for Boz.

In the show's world that is probably how it will shake down, but in the real world I am not so sure if that is how it would work. I mean he hacked and rob the bank not Cardiff. If you rob an actual bank I am not sure it really makes a difference to the cops and the prosecutors whose money you stole.

[green]

The Mutiny gang run into trouble with the business end of things and conspire to "hack" a few things to spring Boz loose on probation sooner then later.  He joins Mutiny instilling just enough discipline into their operations to actually produce and sell just enough to remain solvent.  In return he rediscovers his inner child amonst the geeks and freaks and is happier then any time ever in his life.  He remains a mentor/father figure for Cameron and eventually marries the now divorced Donna in the last episode of season 2.

 

Meanwhile Gordon, having clearly sold out with his symbolic beard-shaving last season, now stews in his own juices.  He has outlasted them all.  He is tops at Cardiff.  He has become the establishment he used to hate.  He has become more IBM than IBM.  He divorces Donna and joins the Rotary and a swank, snooty country club and his children soon can't stand him.  He becomes a tragic Shakespearean figure.

 

Joe is never ever heard of again.  Or spoken of.  Or even remotely remembered.  Except by the bear that ate him.

Edited August 22, 2014 by green

[qtpye]

I have to say I am quite pleased that there will be a second season.  This writing on this show was annoying, but you could see potential. This show wormed its way into my affections more than, I would like to admit.  I agree we have to stop thinking of Joe as the lead and put a little more focus on Donna, Bos, Mutiny, and even Hunt (how sweet would it be to see that guy get his comeuppance).

 

I just saw Argo again yesterday and I realized I wanted to see more of the Gordon/Donna relationship dynamic (I never thought I would write that sentence).

Edited August 23, 2014 by qtpye

[ketose]

Cameron and Donna go on a trip to kidnap Hunt and tie him to a tree naked in front of a prison.

[DangerousMinds]

I have to say I am quite pleased that there will be a second season.  This writing on this show was annoying, but you could see potential. This show wormed it way into my affections more than, I would like to admit.  I agree we have to stop thinking of Joe as the lead and put a little more focus on Donna, Bos, Mutiny, and even Hunt (how sweet would it be to see that guy get his comeuppance).

 

I just saw Argo again yesterday and I realized I wanted to see more of the Gordon/Donna relationship dynamic (I never thought I would write that sentence).

I too watched Argo again yesterday and thought the same thing. HBO?

[dubbel zout]

This show wormed it way into my affections

 

Hee. How very apt.

[qtpye]

I too watched Argo again yesterday and thought the same thing. HBO?

 

 

Correct.  I actually was looking for the actors who play Gordon and Donna (had no idea who they were the first time I watched the movie).  It made me realize what great chemistry they have on screen.  It is not a firecracker romance, but more of a mostly of two people who get each other, that remind you of so many married couples you have probably met during your lifetime.

[Yolapukka]

 

About Cameron, Donna, and the Mary Sue Factor: For me, they didn't de-Mary Sue Donna at all. Yet she doesn't bug me. Maybe because I don't see her as being full of herself. Cameron does seem full of herself, so that combined with how perfect they have made her grates on me.

 

 My problem with Cameron is not that she's written as perfect, it's that the writing keeps telling us she's perfect, despite being written as highly imperfect; rude past the point of nastiness, a tendency towards mischief that can turn spiteful, problem drinker,  hygiene challenged and so hyper-focussed on work that she can't draw reasonable boundaries between it and her personal life. That's all fine but the character is so deeply undermined by the incessant propping that keeps telling us she's so awesome that none of that matters. She's kind of an asshole but the writing too often veers away from having other characters react logically to that, or implies they need to be understanding because she's so brilliant. One of her flashes of "brilliance" nearly sank the project several times over but the team reacted like their own hearts were being ripped out when her OS had to be sacrificed. I don't necessarily have a huge problem with the individual scenes where her coding is compared to music or she's told she's the future and it makes people want to see her fail, but there were too many scenes of other characters piling on the praise when it should have been balanced with feedback that she act like less of a jerk. There was also that exchange that involved Joe Sr. going on about how the team they sent down to Dallas came back singing her praises, but since he was bull-shitting her throughout that sequence, it was less problematic.

 

Donna is still a sweetheart and still a paragon of many virtues but I don't think she's any sort of a Mary-Sue after she leaked her husband's work secrets to her boss because she wanted some positive attention, was prepared to sleep with that same boss for the same reason and spent her time as a stay-at-home Mom getting high and eating fake Oreos. 

 

And yeah, Cameron is full of herself whereas Donna is not and that makes a big difference in how bearable their presence happens to be.

 

 

I think they blew it big-time when they had him torching the first shipment of the Giant. That's just so cartoon villain. Way beyond "wild card" or "loose cannon." The  only way the writers can    go after that stunt that I can think of is to show the other characters, especially Gordon, finding out what Joe did and then watch them become unglued.  But then there'll have to be the constant "I don't trust Joe, I mean I REALLY don't trust Joe" factor

 

 

This! All I could think was "Joe's a tool" not "Joe's a bad-ass" and I don't really understand the logical story for a character who is already established as untrustworthy and destructive doing something that extreme and subsequently being able to return to the fold and yet we know that Joe will continue to be part of this show.

 

 I don't even have much of a problem with Joe and I actually am interested in the unravelling of His Secret Sorrow, unless the writing treats it like it's some sort of free pass to him for being an utter shithead. Because, No(!) , just no, that would kill the character for me in ways that his tantrums and crackpot cunning plaaaaaaans never could. 

 

 

More Gordon. More Boz. Bring back LuLu.

 

Yep.

 

I have a fan-wank that LuLou financed the Slingshot.

Edited August 24, 2014 by yuggapukka

[hincandenza]

I have a fan-wank that LuLou financed the Slingshot.

 

This is an interesting theory!  LouLu was the Jean Smart character that was going to give Cardiff $10 million in funding, but was asking for an obscene 80% of the project, so Joe sabotaged that effort by sleeping with her kept man, right?  I feel like the writers might steal this idea from you, and retcon it back into the plot. :)

 

It would make perfect sense: she'd have a ton of motivation (bitterness, revenge, and spite), and certainly the money since it was implied she was very, very wealthy.  She'd know who to talk to and recruit- because Cardiff sure fired a LOT of likely bitter employees- and since Cardiff contacted her then rejected her offer early enough, the timeline is such that she could have been funding the Slingshot almost from day 1, and her team jumping ahead to parity every time they stole an idea from the Giant.

 

Indeed, the word "Slingshot" isn't just the Y-shaped toy, but also a move in car or bike racing where you draft behind another competitor (drafting is where you get close enough behind that the lead vehicle is using their energy to push into the wind, and you save energy because there's far less wind resistance by riding in their wake), and then at the opportune time you use that reserved energy for a burst of acceleration as you "slingshot" past the leader.  And that is basically what the "Slingshot" did!

 

It clearly isn't a perfect clone, and as I suspected in the episode it was revealed, is probably still a work-in-progress... but it is likely a functional PC. Honestly, for all the drama this season, building a PC was pretty cookie cutter even in 1983: the challenge was doing so with the Joe-mandated weight and size limitations, and THOSE innovations appear to be the key ones that were stolen (but not all of them, as we found from Hunt's smirking "heat sink" question at ComDex).  Cardiff meanwhile hemhorraged time and money with all their feature creep and in-fighting, so the Slingshot wasn't even trying to invent the greatest OS ever, or be too perfect like Joe and Cameron were obsessing over: just good enough a hardware assembly to show up at ComDex with a seemingly worthy bargain competitor.  This was my theory then, that it was a vaporware bluff that would lose in the marketplace but bolstered an attempt to "legally" steal the Giant's ideas while Cardiff was reeling and embroiled in financial issues and organizational chaos- but when added with your idea, it all adds up, and explains what a lot of us had wondered about, which was who the real money was behind it all.

 

LouLu would be absolutely pissed off the way only a scorned, wealthy, southern widow could be, so she resolves to destroy Joe (maybe SHE was the force behind the cops beating him up?) and beat Cardiff at its own game.  Build something just barely functional for $2-3M or less, steal the key ideas from the Giant when the opportunity arises, and then have the deep pockets for the coup de grace of offering a struggling Cardiff $2.5M to essentially break even by selling their intellectual property and walking away.  If Cardiff takes that deal- which he almost did!- LouLu has saved probably half of the original $10M she'd offered, and now has 100% of the technology involved in the Giant instead of 80%.  Pretty canny move, and it adds depth to the plot twist of the Slingshot. 

 

Nice theory, yuggapukka!

[Kel Varnsen]

It would make perfect sense: she'd have a ton of motivation (bitterness, revenge, and spite), and certainly the money since it was implied she was very, very wealthy.  She'd know who to talk to and recruit- because Cardiff sure fired a LOT of likely bitter employees- and since Cardiff contacted her then rejected her offer early enough, the timeline is such that she could have been funding the Slingshot almost from day 1, and her team jumping ahead to parity every time they stole an idea from the Giant.

Plus for her to have been in a position to offer them 10 million dollars, they would have had to disclose a ton of information about the company, especially on the Giant itself, how it works and what their goals with the finished product would be. 

[George King III]

One person I really hope to meet in Season 2: Cameron's Dad. In her conversation with Joe Sr. it was established that he'd been an Air Force helicopter crew chief. There are some pretty intense stories all over the web about what guys in that line of work had to do in Vietnam, and it'd be interesting to see how far the apple fell from the tree in that regard.

 

Also - It was never definitively established that Cameron's dad was dead. Joe Sr. only said "He never came back, did he?" For some reason, that - and the strange stuffed racccon Cameron said she and her Dad made together - give me an image of a disabled veteran in long term care in some godforsaken VA hospital. And from there the story could go into all kinds of places, possibly parallelling Joe's situation in one way or another.

 

One more thought: What if Cameron's dad was also named Cameron Howe?

[dubbel zout]

they would have had to disclose a ton of information about the company, especially on the Giant itself, how it works and what their goals with the finished product would be.

Given that Joe changed what he wanted every ten minutes, I don't think the specs would have given away too much. Heh.

[CherryMalotte]

I've been wondering if it wouldn't be a good starting point to start the second season five years further to 1989.