The Upside Down Connection

[manute]

I'm new to the forum so forgive me if this topic has been discussed already.  I've been trying to connect the four stories regarding the Upside Down.  In the first season, there was one demogorgon which was released when Eleven opened the gate.  Season two introduced the Shadow Monster, so the gate was still open.  In season three, the monster was totally different, absorbing people to become stronger.  And season 4 has Vechna with the new story of Eleven, as a small child, pushing 001 into the upside down where he becomes the main force there.  So has Vechna been the ruler of the Upside Down from the beginning?  Am I missing something here?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

12 minutes ago, manute said:

I'm new to the forum so forgive me if this topic has been discussed already.  I've been trying to connect the four stories regarding the Upside Down.  In the first season, there was one demogorgon which was released when Eleven opened the gate.  Season two introduced the Shadow Monster, so the gate was still open.  In season three, the monster was totally different, absorbing people to become stronger.  And season 4 has Vechna with the new story of Eleven, as a small child, pushing 001 into the upside down where he becomes the main force there.  So has Vechna been the ruler of the Upside Down from the beginning?  Am I missing something here?

I think the Upside Down always existed, but once Eleven 'killed' One and forced him into the UD, he used his powers/abilities to shape/mold the UD into something he could use to try and get back to the Rightside Up - or at least use other methods & UD-supplied tools to manipulate the connection between dimensions to do so - and get revenge on Eleven.  He also used what was available to become the 'master' of the UD.  (IE, the "demorgorgons" and that huge black particle thing he formed into the "Mind Flayer")

That's my view on it, but mmv.

Edited July 16, 2022 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[janie jones]

That's my interpretation, too.

The thing I don't get is why that one demogorgon could come and go as he pleased in the first season.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

That's my interpretation, too.

The thing I don't get is why that one demogorgon could come and go as he pleased in the first season.

Honestly, I think it originally came out of that portal to the UD that was in the basement of the lab in Hawkins - the one Brenner was sending people through on a tether, that came back bloody and person-less.   Maybe it could sense other mini-portals to-&-from the UD, like that one in the tree that Nancy discovered.  Thus, used those to move between dimensions.

Afterall, that was where we first 'saw' it, when the cold open to the very first episode of the series was the scientist running from something and then getting caught & killed by whatever he was running from.

Edited July 16, 2022 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[manute]

I appreciate those interpretations.  I was struggling to string the different upside down creatures together which culminated in Vechna.

[Aryanna]

On 7/15/2022 at 9:23 PM, manute said:

So has Vechna been the ruler of the Upside Down from the beginning? 

I think that's what we're supposed to think. Really it's all just a retcon.

[Cranberry]

Vecna's clock chimes in the first episode of season one (as Will is biking home before disappearing) and in season three (as the Mind Flayer drags Billy away). The Duffer Brothers have also stated that their original 25-page treatment for the show included Vecna's origin story.

Quote

Henry Creel, One and Vecna all being the same person is a massive twist. Was it always the plan to intertwine Henry Creel and Eleven’s backstory together with the Upside Down?

Matt: Yeah, we had this 25-page mythology document that Netflix made us write all the way back in Season 1. Because we were like, “We know what’s going on in the Upside Down, more or less, but we want it to be unknowable. We want it to be mysterious.” But they were like, "Yeah, but can you write it down?” And so we wrote it all down.

We’ve been waiting to get into their backstory, in terms of, obviously, the mystery of what happened to the other numbers. Specifically One, right? And, it just took us a while to get around to telling that story. The most challenging thing was, “OK, we know that story completely informs what’s happening in the present, so it has a level of urgency to it, but you can’t reveal that right away.”

[manute]

Thanks, Cranberry.  Hearing from the creators really connects everything with Vechna.

[bijoux]

Since Vecna needed four kills to open four gates does that mean that the four people with connections to him and/or other parts of UD - El, Will, Max and Nancy - are the four corner stones to winning in the final season?

Edited July 27, 2022 by bijoux

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

8 hours ago, bijoux said:

Since Vecna needed four kills to open four gates does that mean that the four people with connections to him and/or other parts of UD - El, Will, Max and Nancy - are the four corner stones to winning in the final season?

I have no clue, but I would totally be down with that.

[manute]

I love all the theories and analyses.  The Russia storyline still confuses me in terms of the gates connecting to the Upside Down.  I plan on rewatching Season 4, but if memory serves, Hopper's plan to help El and the others back home was to kill all the demogorgons in the prison.  But that didn't close the Russian gate, right?  Also, I may be mistaken, but I thought that the Upside Down was specific to Hawkins.  If there is also a gate in Russia, does that mean that the Upside Down is present throughout the world?

[janie jones]

3 minutes ago, manute said:

If there is also a gate in Russia, does that mean that the Upside Down is present throughout the world?

That's always been my assumption. I don't think they've said anything to indicate it's localized.

[bijoux]

39 minutes ago, janie jones said:

That's always been my assumption. I don't think they've said anything to indicate it's localized.

That's what I assume as well. It's present all around, it's only a matter of portals where it crosses over.

43 minutes ago, manute said:

I love all the theories and analyses.  The Russia storyline still confuses me in terms of the gates connecting to the Upside Down.  I plan on rewatching Season 4, but if memory serves, Hopper's plan to help El and the others back home was to kill all the demogorgons in the prison.  But that didn't close the Russian gate, right?  Also, I may be mistaken, but I thought that the Upside Down was specific to Hawkins.  If there is also a gate in Russia, does that mean that the Upside Down is present throughout the world?

I don't think the plan was to shut the portal. Killing demodogs or demogorgons never did that. It was to weaken the big bad because the demogorgons were connected to him through the hive mind, so that El stood a better chance.

Edited July 29, 2022 by bijoux

[CCTC]

I admit, I enjoy the show for the characters, the nostalgia feel, the atmosphere which includes some genuinely spooky moments, but when I think  about it, the Upside Down world has never made a lot of sense to me.  I wonder if when the series finale is done, if everything will make sense.  From some of the Vecna stuff this season, it does seem like they do have things plotted out and where everything will be revealed to fit together by the show's end.