The Anarchists

[cmfran]

A few takeaways on the finale (and series in general):

Jeff Berwick: just your typical d-bag tech bro. Now that he's decided that a lack of "real men" is the real problem, he'll probably be buddies with Joe Rogan soon. 

Lily/John: terrible that he ended up dead, but their relationship was never going to last. I kept wondering how she supports herself in Mexico, especially since she's undocumented and doesn't seem to speak Spanish.

The Freemans: Nathan basically committed slow suicide. It sucks that he wouldn't get the help he needed, and the scenes of his kids at his death bed were tough to watch. I hate it for them, and I hope they have a shot at a normal life without all the nonsense. And my god, he was YELLOW on his death bed. I didn't know cirrhosis did that.

Anarchapulco: an excuse to party in Mexico and complain for a few days. Nothing more.

[Guest]

An abbreviated version of Lily's speech:

"Fuck, like, fuck. Like, fuck. Fuck ... like. Fuck." Fascinating!

On the off change Lily's new boyfriend is reading here: RUN, SIR!! Run far, far away!!! He seemed like a nice guy and his family seemed nice as well. He's in for a lifetime of chaos if she stays with her.

And one final thought about her - I LOVED that she wanted to apply for refugee status from the Mexican government. LOL Girl you ain't a refugee -- YOU ARE A FUGITIVE. Drugs make you stupid people. Don't do them.  

Oh boy. And Jason. Yeah, dude. Nothing like "living freely" in your van ... that has to be licensed by the state where it's registered (with the state) and having a drivers license issued by the state. But DO GO ON about how much you hate "statists." 🤣

I don't understand the story Lisa was telling about going into Nathan's room and telling him it was OK to go and then he died. Didn't we see her enter his hospital room AFTER he was dead?

And this is the only thing that went through my mind when she grabbed his dead hand:

 I have to admit to rewinding the show a few times to watch Berwick get his ass beat by an opponent whose form and style of combat was akin to a drunk 14 year old boy who watched too many Chuck Norris movies and practiced his roundhouse kicks in his bedroom. It was a testament to what a pathetic loser Berwick really is. 

Anyway, so long to all the grifters from Anarchoassholepulco -- especially the edgelords who chose to wear their political t-shirts to an event that opposes all government rule. Clown show.

ETA: Oh, and P.S. Lisa -- there is no "Stage 5 cirrhosis." You can't just decide your husband has the most special form of cirrhosis because you grifted people on GoFundMe to pay for his medical care.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Guest

[Rlb8031]

Watched episode 6 with my SO last night and we were both tickled at Berwick's diatribe about "real men" coming on the heels of the video which clearly evidenced that he's never had a fight in his life. That off-balance slap boxing, and taunting of your opponent shows you've never really had to throw hands with anyone. When the title card is Felix Unger vs. Ferris Buhler, you know anarchy isn't long for this world.

Oh, and I'm going to need all the "fuck government" folks to stop driving on government provided roads, using government subsidized electricity and internet and partying with government taxed liquor. Instead of decamping for a Mexican resort town, try living life off the grid, sustaining yourself only on what you can grow or hunt and providing for all of your own needs with zero percent government involvement (including commerce).

[cmfran]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Watched episode 6 with my SO last night and we were both tickled at Berwick's diatribe about "real men" coming on the heels of the video which clearly evidenced that he's never had a fight in his life. That off-balance slap boxing, and taunting of your opponent shows you've never really had to throw hands with anyone. When the title card is Felix Unger vs. Ferris Buhler, you know anarchy isn't long for this world.

Oh, and I'm going to need all the "fuck government" folks to stop driving on government provided roads, using government subsidized electricity and internet and partying with government taxed liquor. Instead of decamping for a Mexican resort town, try living life off the grid, sustaining yourself only on what you can grow or hunt and providing for all of your own needs with zero percent government involvement (including commerce).

Right. It was like Fight Club for losers. I was hoping the other guy would kick the shit out of Berwick. 

The funniest thing about their obsession with Mexico is that Berwick chose it by complete happenstance. He randomly sailed into Acapulco and said "huh, this place is a fun place to party," and that was the end of it. 

And on a random note, none of these people could pronounce Acapulco correctly. They all kept saying "Acapoke-o." I first heard Berwick do it, then several others. Is it that hard to say?

[DanaK]

I would what the Mexican government thought of these folks coming into town annually to spout anarchist bs?

[One Imaginary Girl]

I don't even understand the philosophy behind this.  The anarchists in my city seem to be on the left side of the political spectrum, but this scene seems to be hate paying taxes + spring break for adults + cryptocurrency + New Age-y stuff.

[Rlb8031]

1 minute ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I don't even understand the philosophy behind this.  The anarchists in my city seem to be on the left side of the political spectrum, but this scene seems to be hate paying taxes + spring break for adults + cryptocurrency + New Age-y stuff.

Yes, its was a bunch of super-right anti-taxers, who also wanted to be able to get high when they wanted and therefore were super liberal about drugs and drug policy, who also engaged in a fair amount of cultural appropriation between the yoga, sound baths, and drum circles, and then sprinkled on top was the destruction of central banking, People so far right they were left, or so far left they were right, depending on how you look at them. 

[carrps]

They're less anarchists than libertarians. That's why Ron Paul shows up.

[DanaK]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:36 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Yes, its was a bunch of super-right anti-taxers, who also wanted to be able to get high when they wanted and therefore were super liberal about drugs and drug policy, who also engaged in a fair amount of cultural appropriation between the yoga, sound baths, and drum circles, and then sprinkled on top was the destruction of central banking, People so far right they were left, or so far left they were right, depending on how you look at them. 

Actually, I think it was a messy combination of lefty hippy types trying to mesh with some righty anti-tax pro-crypto types (who were in charge or trying to be), with a few other folks in between, which clearly didn’t work well

[AuntieMame]

On 7/25/2022 at 3:31 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

I thought her skin looked like a Face of Meth, but that’s just me.😒

Thank you!! I was astounded at the naïveté of the film maker who seemed to believe that she and John had nothing to do with drug dealing, no siree Bob. We ain’t doin’ no drugs or dealing no drugs. When both of them had those gross meth sores all over their faces and Lily looked to be less than a hundred pounds. I know during some of this she was prostrate with grief and shock and the continuing trauma of running for her life with a seriously injured man and that didn’t help, but the evidence of heavy drug use was all over her body before John’s murder. And what charges made them fugitives? That would be correct. Drug charges. Has nobody heard of discretion? Who packs up a car with paraphernalia and supposedly “spent” weed meant for the compost pile while sporting a personal style that practically screams ‘I’m a druggie with a half-assed douchebag philosophy and other antisocial tendencies” for an interstate move? The guy didn’t deserve to be shot, but the stupidity and narcissism of all of these people just floored me. 

That said, who do you think did the murder? Paul or the cartel? I could go either way on this but tend towards the cartel. 

Was anyone else surprised by how nonchalantly the Freemans admitted to dealing with the Cartel to supply the conference with drugs? That kind of surprised me. I wonder how you open that subject with the luxury hotel concierge or conference manager. 

On 8/17/2022 at 8:19 PM, DanaK said:

I would what the Mexican government thought of these folks coming into town annually to spout anarchist bs?

I’m sure they snickered up their sleeves at first but they were useful idiots in terms of bringing money into the city. The moronic aspects of these people, all of them, not to mention the narcissism and absolute selfishness continues to astonish. For starters, they aren’t anarchists philosophically or ethically. That would require some passing familiarity with actual anarchist philosophers like Emma Goldman or Kropotkin or at a stretch Fourier. These folks are half-baked Objectivist Libertarians and even that classification gives selfish assholery a dignity it doesn’t deserve. 

The Freemans named their kid Axiom? Just wow. Why not just tattoo “your parents are navel gazing narcissists who hate you” on the kid and be done with it? 

I did enjoy watching this in a witnessing something terrible way, but I went in thinking I was going to watch something about actual philosophical anarchism. Imagine my surprise. These people are nothing but money grubbers with various mental health issues, a taste for drugs and a belief in the principle of rules for thee but not for me. I couldn’t understand why they felt so unfree when in fact most of them seem to be some of the most free people in the history of humanity. 

I feel a bit like I rubbernecked at the site of a fatal car crash. I predict that “Lily” will develop into a zealous reformed addict with a do as I say ethos. 
 

PS - Did anyone else get a very weird vibe from that Mexican guy she took up with after John’s death? Something felt off there. Just me? 

Edited August 26, 2022 by AuntieMame
Adding to my astonishment quotient.

[MCMLXXVII]

All this “white guy rapping” is killing me. 😂🤣😂🤣

[DanaK]

11 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

PS - Did anyone else get a very weird vibe from that Mexican guy she took up with after John’s death? Something felt off there. Just me? 

I felt more that he needed to run and not be around that motley group

[AuntieMame]

10 hours ago, DanaK said:

I felt more that he needed to run and not be around that motley group

I rewatched something of the sections with him and I think you’re right and that was what I was reacting to with him. I love his grandma in fact between his grandma and John’s grandma I think we should have rule by the abuelas. Think what a good world that would be. 

[carrps]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:26 AM, AuntieMame said:

That said, who do you think did the murder? Paul or the cartel? I could go either way on this but tend towards the cartel. 

Cartel, definitely. Paul had very, VERY, deep issues, but I don't see him actually killing people.

[Enero]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:44 PM, DanaK said:

As for the unschooling concept, I think it probably works well for some kids, but I think most need some kind of structure to make sure they learn the important stuff

I honestly thought that education theory was pure BS. So they’re going to let their kids become educated based on the kid’s interests and “hope” the kid develops the tools to navigate life and be successful. Considering kids are easily distracted and interests consists of eating, sleeping and playing for at least the first 10 years of their lives I doubt this theory would yield the result they’re hoping. Why can’t the kids be educated and any interests they develop, based on the education they receive and the things their parents expose them to, are also cultivated? 

On 7/24/2022 at 7:37 PM, merylinkid said:

The Freemans "No rules, you can say fuck all you want."   "Oh wait someone said 'Fuck you' to US, that cannot be allowed."  IRebel is so going to change her name when she is 18.   Also, great your kid can say fuck all she wants, but can she read or write?   Oh and that measuring they do when babies are born?   It's called the Apgar test and has literally SAVED millions of babies lives.   But you know you get all bent out of shape over something you don't understand.  

And really died laughing when the Freemans got pushed out of the conference they took over.   HOW DARE the founder find someone who actually knows how to run things?   Doesn't he know who WE ARE?????    They were also pissed at Paul for cutting out their own drug deals.   Which hello, Anarchy.   If you can deal drugs, so can he.    Of course, neither one knew how bad the cartels were living in their privileged little Ex-Pat bubble.     Lisa Freeman is not a nurturing soul.   She is controlling.   She wants things HER WAY.   So she will "mother" you to get it.   You could see how PISSED she was at Nathan during the conference because he wasn't doing what SHE wanted.   of course, he's a fucking narcissist too.   "How do you fix a broken world."   Well not by creating a conference to push the scam of the century, Bitcoin.   But like only HE can run things and only HE knows what the conference is about and how to do it and only HE can fix the world.   They deserve each other.

I didn’t think the Freeman’s were true anarchists. They just moved to Acapulco with the riches they’d made in the U.S. and started the capitalist machine all over again by managing the Anarchist conference and pushing the bitcoin stuff. When that train came to a screeching halt they not surprisingly were upset and felt wronged.   Then proceeded to talk about starting a “healing” conference, of course to make more money.  

On 7/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, merylinkid said:

So there is a shooting right at the gate.   And Lily's first thought is to go on Facebook?   Same with John, "oh I've been shot" let me LIVE STREAM IT.   Then they do call for help and nurturing mothering Lisa's first thought is "we ain't leaving this house."   Not "oh hey one of our group needs help."   Also what sheltered lives all these VERY WHITE folks led.   They didn't realize how bad the violence was in Mexico until they went to a cemetary.   Like had they never seen a newspaper?    Watched a news program.    Read TWITTER for heaven's sakes?  

Yeah this is a whole bunch of self-centered people who decided to live their own lives and found out the rest of the world doesn't see them as special.

This so much. And didn’t  the couple who owned the Vegan shop warn them that living in the hills was dangerous? 

Many of these people sounded like idiots. Like the one guy who said he bought a house in the U.S. and everytime he went to do something to the house he had to get a permit. So he felt oppressed. This guy didn’t know what oppressed was. 

The only person in this documentary whom I got was Erica, the African American lady from Chicago. I totally got what she said about getting tired of the daily grind, giving her life to a job that she wasn’t passionate about, doing work that meant nothing to her. So she tapped into this anarchist movement. Though she did participate and believed in the concepts, once she saw that the community in Acapulco was a mess, she wisely packed up her stuff and moved to Belize. 

On 8/8/2022 at 6:39 PM, DanaK said:

Episode 5 thoughts:

We talked about Ericka being one of those who wanted to help rather than ignore members of the group in need. Author Thaddeus Russell seemed to go further and understood how crappy Lily was being treated and tried to get the community to help. He indicated in his interview how dangerous it was to be an anarchist in Mexico and said how easy it was for crypto billionaires to escape governments, banks and states but very hard for people like John and Lily with far less resources to do so. And he nailed it right there. The rich folks could do what they wanted without much consequence while the poorer folk couldn’t. People tend to want to rely on community no matter the ideology and rich douches doing their own thing and looking the other way when people are in trouble while supposedly building up a community spoil that. Berwick was a prime example of that crappy attitude. I really disliked him. I felt the same way about the Freemans

All of this. In the beginning the Freemans were talking about we did it, you can do it too! Yeah those who had made a grip in the states and had the financial resources to move out of country. Those who’d most benefit from the “anarchist” life would be those who are poor and don’t have the resources to move to another country on a whim. 

After watching 5 hours of this I still don’t know what the anarchists hoped to accomplish with their Acapulco community and the yearly conferences. It’s funny how there was no insight into how they were living life differently from living in the U.S. except maybe paying less taxes? If they truly wanted to establish an anarchy community why not have everyone pool their money and establish a community where they lived off the grid?
 

The story of Lily’s background…yeah her path was inevitable. What happened to her mom was horrific. That said, she was full of sh*t. She knew exactly what John was doing. I totally believe that she, Paul and John were involved with the drug sells at the conference. How else were they gone make money to live there? Even as barely making it. Making minimal pesos off selling meals out of their home was not going to cut it and certainly wasn’t going to support their drug habits. And though Paul didn’t pull the trigger on John, I would not be surprised if he was somehow involved with what happened due to him being nearly killed a year earlier by the cartel due to his drug activities. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Enero

[DanaK]

11 minutes ago, Enero said:

After watching 5 hours of this I still don’t know what the anarchists hoped to accomplish with their Acapulco community and the yearly conferences. It’s funny how there was no insight into how they were living life differently from living in the U.S. except maybe paying less taxes? If they truly wanted to establish an anarchy community why not have everyone pool their money and establish a community where they lived off the grid?

I’ll bet it didn’t happen because the rich folks and crypto folks didn’t want to do a kumbya and pool their resources with the poorer folks. They were there to get richer and spread their supposed anarchist message. It started as just a conference and mostly remained just an annual conference

[Enero]

I finished this documentary. It was certainly entertaining. Not sure if it needed 6 episodes though. I think they could’ve told the story in 3 episodes. 

I think Lily is naive in thinking Mexico is going to give her asylum. Considering she left the U.S., came into their country illegally because she was fleeing drug charges, of all things, and subsequently 25 years in prison, I doubt they’d have sympathy and want to help her escape “persecution.”  They can barely handle the native drug dealers and cartels. Why would they be willing to give a fugitive drug dealer from the U.S. citizenship in their country?

On 8/16/2022 at 9:25 AM, cmfran said:

The Freemans: Nathan basically committed slow suicide. It sucks that he wouldn't get the help he needed, and the scenes of his kids at his death bed were tough to watch. I hate it for them, and I hope they have a shot at a normal life without all the nonsense. And my god, he was YELLOW on his death bed. I didn't know cirrhosis did that.

Shocking ending for Nathan. Was that really his hand which was that yellow? It looked like a glove to me. If it was truly his hand, Yikes! Even if he sought the proper medical attention immediately upon becoming sick, they wouldn’t have been able to save him from advanced cirrhosis of the liver. The illness had done too much damage to his liver. I find it hard to believe that his essential banishment from the anarchist leadership led to him drinking himself to death. Yeah he was depressed, but I’m betting he’d been abusing alcohol for many many years. The abuse no doubt escalated after his involvement with the anarchist community collapsed. But ultimately I think it may have been years of alcohol abuse before and after their move to Mexico that caught up with him before he reached the age of 50. Crazy how they started off with so much money and living it up in Mexico, then merely 5 years later being reduced to soliciting money on GoFundMe. You’d think they would’ve been more cautious with their investments being that the money they had was what they needed to maintain a comfortable lifestyle while living there.

I do wonder if their move from Acapulco was not just about their failure in the anarchist community but the cost of living. If their funds had started to significantly dwindle, moving inland was likely much cheaper than trying to remain in a coastal city like Acapulco. Even with it being Mexico, living lavishly in an ocean view mansion with a swimming pool could probably get costly. 

Quote

Lily/John: terrible that he ended up dead, but their relationship was never going to last. I kept wondering how she supports herself in Mexico, especially since she's undocumented and doesn't seem to speak Spanish.

The irony of her situation now and even before, when John was alive, is that at this point her livelihood will always depend on with whom she’s involved. Since she doesn’t have legal papers to live and work in Mexico the only way she can survive is if an expat or local ie a boyfriend who is native to Mexico is helping her. I wonder what Mexico’s laws are surrounding marrying an illegal alien. Can a Mexican marry an illegal? And if so, can that facilitate a change in the illegal’s status to permanent resident, similar to the U.S.? If so, she may have a path to a quick PR in Mexico if her new boyfriend will marry her. 

[AuntieMame]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:25 PM, DanaK said:

I’ll bet it didn’t happen because the rich folks and crypto folks didn’t want to do a kumbya and pool their resources with the poorer folks. They were there to get richer and spread their supposed anarchist message. It started as just a conference and mostly remained just an annual conference

I have serious objections to any of these people being called Anarchists from a political, philosophical or ethical point of view. What these people are are Libertarians with a smattering of Randian Objectivism. Not the same thing at all. True anarchism believes strongly in the principle of Mutual Aid, just for starters.  

I did a bit of further reading on the Acapulco group and they referred to themselves as Anarcho-Capitalists with heavy emphasis on the capitalism side of the hyphen. The anarchist side of the hyphen means “no rules”, a serious misreading of anarchism. The anarchy part was a veil to hide the truth of their childish desires which were basically: “I want to get as rich as possible and not be bothered by ethics or the fact of other people’s existence and I don’t want any big meanie mommies or daddies trying to tell me what to do. So there!” I think they thought “I’m escaping the oppression of the state” just sounded better, all philosophical and stuff. 

In complete agreement with those who said John and Lily were dealing for income and probably branched out from pot which seems to be a gray area with the cartel. They were definitely on meth. I’ve seen too many people with those facial sores to ever mistake it again. 

Thanks for the answer on John’s murder that it was the cartel. That makes the most sense but it makes me wonder why Lily was so adamant naming Paul. Did she think she was covering her own ass by steering opinion away from the cartel? Or was she just that angry at Paul? Is it awful that even though I felt enormous compassion for Lily I didn’t think she was a very good person? And even now that she’s clean I still don’t think she’s a great person? 

Edited August 31, 2022 by AuntieMame
Typos and Autocorrect

[AuntieMame]

Here’s a pretty good article both on the docuseries and explaining that none of these folks are anarchists. 
 

https://www.wired.com/story/the-anarchists-hbo-docuseries-finale-anarchapulco/amp