More Diversity! Less Bukowski!: Suggestions for Show Improvement

[Bella]

In the thread for the final episode of Andi's season, @jordanpond wrote :

 

 

 

starting with the hometowns, it becomes quite evident how much the show requires the lead to be a liar, even if he/she went into the show with the best intentions. Probably on most seasons, during the hometowns, the lead is flat-out-lying to at least two of the families who have welcomed the lead into their home. I dislike the concept of taking up to three people to the fantasy suites, and I don't know what I find more objectionable :the way Chris Harrison uses salacious wording and generally goes out of his way to imply that something sexual goes on, or his complete about face -- when it suits him -- to chide contestants who don't seem to treat this time as private. And even if you think that Nick was faking all or some of his devastation (I happen to believe him) you know that the F2s of at least some seasons are completely blindsided and heartbroken.

By the way, whether you are like me and dislike the practice of a man asking a father for his daughter's hand, or disagree with me and find this a nice and traditional gesture, I offer that there is likely agreement on both sides of the topic that this show makes a complete mockery of the practice For two men to ask for the bachelorette's hand is silly. And on Bachelor seasons it is downright ridiculous to see the lead ask four (!) fathers for their respective daughter's hand.

Although I think Andi went really too far in her deception, I think it is only fair to acknowledge that there were probably other leads who engaged in similarly excessive "leading-on" of their F2 (and perhaps even F3), but who, unlike Andi, never had the extent of the deception revealed in such a public way.

But even those who don't take it nearly as far are really put in a "no win" position according to the rules of the show: either you look undecided up to the end and make your bond with the F1 seem very weak, or affirm that you knew quite a long time who your F1 would be, and thus look like a manipulative liar.

Sure, nobody has to agree to be the lead in the show, and I think they do need to be accountable for their choices. But the fact that the show, by its very format, forces the lead into a no-win situation in which they look bad either way is something that Chris Harrison never seems to acknowledge. In some seasons he treats the spurned contestants as stalkers if that suits him, in others (as with Juan Pablo) it suited him to point out what a cad JP was, presumably to make the other bachelors and the whole "process" of the franchise look good by comparison.

I guess in some seasons in which the leads and contestants are more quiet/circumspect in their discussions, it's easier to focus on the fun parts of the show. But this season made it impossible to ignore how much the format guarantees that someone will look bad, and how much the show's producers seem to wash their hands of their very big part in all of it.

 

So ... I've been watching this show for a number of years, and I agree with Jordanpond that this is the situation every season. 

 

Do others agree?

 

Whether or not you agree, who, among all the Bachelors and Bachelorettes, do you think handled the situation the best? And why?

 

What would you like to see the lead do, given the format of the show?

 

I'm just really curious about what other people think here. I don't have strong opinions myself, but obviously a lot of posters do, and I guess my basic question is what would make you happiest in terms of the lead and the final few contestants?

[chocolatine]

What would you like to see the lead do, given the format of the show?

I'm just really curious about what other people think here. I don't have strong opinions myself, but obviously a lot of posters do, and I guess my basic question is what would make you happiest in terms of the lead and the final few contestants?

 

 

I know it would get very tricky and could easily go wrong if not handled correctly, but maybe start giving the final four or three some indication about where they stand in relation to the others. For example, "Contestants A and B seem ready to settle down and start a family, but I'm not so sure about you" or "you are exactly the kind of person I want to marry, but my chemistry with Contestant A is stronger at this point". It would give the contestants a chance to focus on the aspect about which the lead still has doubts, and the ones eliminated at F3 or F2 wouldn't be quite so blindsided, or at least wouldn't be justified in saying "but I was sure I was going to be the one". Of course, talking to one person about the other relationships can easily backfire - see Juan Pablo and Andi.

Edited August 4, 2014 by chocolatine

[Pollock]

I think one thing I would change is the hometown dates.  I don't know what I'd like to see done differently because I haven't really thought about it, but it seems almost cruel to bring the families into it when it's likely that the lead is very much just going through the motions with at least two of the families.  I sometimes am thinking to myself how embarrassed some of these families must feel when the show airs if for no other reason that they're (usually) being so kind to the lead and thinking that their son/daughter actually might have a shot at "winning."  Maybe only bring the families into it once it comes down to the final two?

That is what I was about to post. I don't care for hometown dates. If they must absolutely have met the families before making the final choice, I would prefer they put them in a plane to an exotic location, so at least they have something nice to remember from this experience.

Or meeting the chosen one's family after the final rose. An episode to see how the lead acclimates with the winner's life and vice versa. Not the big nothing they feed us during ATFR. How is their life in secrecy etc. Could be fun. 

 

And why not a season with two leads, one man, one woman and both sex contestants. Scratch that : it's too Bachelor Pad potential (aka everybody's hooking up with everybody except with the leads). So two women/two men. The balance of power would shift a little (or drastically if the two leads fall for the same woman/man) and the Stockholm syndrom would be less of a factor.

[jordanpond]

Pollock, I really like your idea of two leads. I think it would be a great way to add interest for the viewers, and might make the atmosphere more fun and less potentially heartbreaking for the contestants. I also think it might be the only way that an African American might get to be a lead in this franchise. I'm guessing that one reason for Juan Pablo being chosen as the bachelor was to give an appearance of racial diversity. But Juan Pablo was an ethnic minority, not a racial one: he is considered Caucasian according to the US census. I think that Marquel is by far the closest an African American has ever come to having a legitimate shot at the lead, but I would be quite surprised (and pleasantly so) if the producers went ahead and cast him. But pairing him as co-bachelor with Arie or Chris? He might have a better shot at getting a lead that way.

Edited August 4, 2014 by jordanpond

[Padma]

I like the idea of two leads..kind of. But I remember the Byron (bass fisherman) season where there was another man in the beginning and the women voted on which one to keep around. (Yeah, that idea didn't get repeated.) Even at that early stage, you felt sorry for the one sent home (and for a few of the women--who had no interest in Byron but wanted to keep the other guy around. Kind of a mess.)

 

I wouldn't want to see race brought into it with two leads. Because, the women's preferences could seem racially-based even when they weren't.  I look at the ads for BP and feel bad for Marquel. Not that he can't hook up with a white woman, but because it looks like he's the only AA person there. If it were reversed--all African Americans except one white guy or woman it would seem weird, too.

 

I'd like to see Marquel as the lead with all b-ettes there because they already know its him and want to date him. I think that could be a good season--he's so much fun and it would be interesting to see his taste in women--but I don't think TB is ready for it and Marquel's race would be blamed if ratings were low. Too complicated.

[Shugardrawers]

I don't understand why they didn't cast some of the African American ladies from past seasons of the Bachelor (and there have been some real stunners) on BiP?  They did show Marquel on a commercial asking a woman who appears to be mixed race for a date and I think she was from Brad's 2nd season.  Or maybe he just prefers caucasian women.  At any rate, a little diversity would certainly freshen this show up a LOT.  This IS the 21st century after all not the 1950's.

[KR Vermont]

If memory serves, there originally wasn't an emphasis on getting engaged at the finale--it was fine and logical to date each other in the real world away from cameras rolling in exotic scenarios, to see if you actually did like each other after all.

 

Two leads could be an interesting twist, although I'd rather they mix up the types of people cast...get away from so many really young, emotionally immature, shallow sorts. Or just have an offshoot for people like me who don't need amped up drama and might enjoy slightly older people who are more intelligent and creative and don't thrive on being mean or crazy. People who could speak lines devoid of "right reasons" and "like." I haven't watched every season because they don't stray from a script and formula and it gets annoyingly stale. Alas, my idea would likely be boring to the masses.

[jordanpond]

KR Vermont, your idea wouldn't be boring to me. I get no enjoyment out of public humiliation (either self imposed or producer driven) or meanness.

[KR Vermont]

Despite the graying of America, I can't see ABC green lighting "Bachelor: The Middle Ages" or "Bachelorette: AARP Style" any time soon. Though, there are some darn attractive couples in Cialis and Viagra commercials, so it wouldn't have to be all liver spots and cellulite. haha. But seriously, I'd be curious as to what a Bach version of peeps 38+ could pull in the ratings.

 

My perception is that the show has been casting more 30+ men AND women than in the earliest seasons that seemed overrun with many vacuous women in their early 20s who didn't strike me as on a quest to "find love" in the settle down sense. Silly that there's expectation of a proposal at the finale. After the lead has been fake-dating multiple people up to the week prior.

[ribboninthesky1]

Despite the graying of America, I can't see ABC green lighting "Bachelor: The Middle Ages" or "Bachelorette: AARP Style" any time soon. Though, there are some darn attractive couples in Cialis and Viagra commercials, so it wouldn't have to be all liver spots and cellulite. haha. But seriously, I'd be curious as to what a Bach version of peeps 38+ could pull in the ratings.

 

Ha! But I have to be honest, I am unconvinced an older version of the leads or contestants would guarantee maturity or kindness. Especially since I am convinced that very few sign on genuinely looking for a spouse. In addition, unless the premise of the show is completely overhauled, particularly after say, the F4, there will always be complaints about the lead being unkind.  Always.

 

That said, I initially read Bachelor: The Middle Ages and thought of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.  It might be highly entertaining to see men in chain mail or heavy armor, and women in gowns with tight bodices.  Women and men, who can't express themselves in modern English, giving Middle English a go.  Courtly love, and the betrayal therein when it turned into a deeper romantic love!  Oh, the intrigue. It's no more ridiculous than the current set up, so I'd totally watch it.   

[KR Vermont]

I initially read Bachelor: The Middle Ages and thought of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.  It might be highly entertaining to see men in chain mail or heavy armor, and women in gowns with tight bodices.

ribbon, your comment brought to mind that new ABC show, The Quest, which I haven't seen. Perhaps if it's successful, a Renaissance Faire-stylized dating show could be spun off...? haha. The costumes would be cool!

[Rhondinella]

Put your suggestions for how the show could improve, but almost certainly won't, here.

[PreBabylonia]

 

Despite the graying of America, I can't see ABC green lighting "Bachelor: The Middle Ages" or "Bachelorette: AARP Style" any time soon. Though, there are some darn attractive couples in Cialis and Viagra commercials, so it wouldn't have to be all liver spots and cellulite. haha. But seriously, I'd be curious as to what a Bach version of peeps 38+ could pull in the ratings.

 

Sounds a bit like that reality show, whereby the kids had to choose for their dad. Their final choice was an interesting, creative, kind of funky lady that I really liked. However, the show did give the final choice to their dad, and he picked the stereotypical, blonde Barbie type. So disappointing! You could tell that their "relationship" was going to go nowhere, she was just there for the fame. (And I think he had some kind of money, too. So a gold-digger type). He had grey hair - not that that really indicates an age group anymore - but I suspect he was in his late fifties. And his final choice did indicate to me that yes, maturity and age don't necessarily contribute to making a wise decision. (Think the show was called "Who Wants to Date my Dad" - it was filmed in the early 2000s. I definitely wasn't put off by the age of the lead - or bachelor).)

[ribboninthesky1]

ribbon, your comment brought to mind that new ABC show, The Quest, which I haven't seen. Perhaps if it's successful, a Renaissance Faire-stylized dating show could be spun off...? haha. The costumes would be cool!

 

I've not seen The Quest, either, but it sounds like it could be one hell of a crossover! Make it happen, ABC!

 

Sounds a bit like that reality show, whereby the kids had to choose for their dad. Their final choice was an interesting, creative, kind of funky lady that I really liked. However, the show did give the final choice to their dad, and he picked the stereotypical, blonde Barbie type. So disappointing! You could tell that their "relationship" was going to go nowhere, she was just there for the fame. (And I think he had some kind of money, too. So a gold-digger type). He had grey hair - not that that really indicates an age group anymore - but I suspect he was in his late fifties. And his final choice did indicate to me that yes, maturity and age don't necessarily contribute to making a wise decision. (Think the show was called "Who Wants to Date my Dad" - it was filmed in the early 2000s. I definitely wasn't put off by the age of the lead - or bachelor).)

 

Yeah...anyone going on TV to "find a partner" gets an automatic side-eye, no matter the age.  Especially since 98% of those cast are generally "TV" attractive.

[Pollock]

Watching the Bachelor Australia (fun too). It's the second season and they are already more advanced than the mothership : Blake Garvey, the Bachelor, is mixed black and white. 

Too much muscles for me (you can imagine that Sean was not my cup of tea) but his deep voice melts my ovaries each time he speaks.

 

IT CAN BE DONE ABC !!!! 

[KR Vermont]

Sounds a bit like that reality show, whereby the kids had to choose for their dad. Their final choice was an interesting, creative, kind of funky lady that I really liked. However, the show did give the final choice to their dad, and he picked the stereotypical, blonde Barbie type. So disappointing!

I recall a show with that premise, though don't remember any episodes. I'd like to see a follow up all these years later--see if they're married and how the kids felt about dad going against their pick. And how things turned out for the creative, funky lady. ha!

Edited August 9, 2014 by KR Vermont