Believe - General Discussion

[Boundary]

I still had the same issues with Dani that I had before i.e. her characterisation is too haphazard, too random, all over the place. She hated Skouras so much that she didn't want to kill him but to kill Bo instead in order to make him suffer. Except that she actually wanted to kill him too but along with the rest and after destroying Orchestra. Oh wait, no, she didn't want to kill them, she just wanted to burn down Orchestra, etc. Seriously, that's why shows like this don't last. Characters will change without explanation in order to serve the plot, which didn't exist in this case, not really.

 

What I got from this episode was that Bo is significantly stronger than anyone else. She can cure the mysterious disease. Tate is still on the run but doesn't seem to remember that. Skouras never ate humble pie, after everything they know about him, Winters and the government are ready to leave him with enough resources to reconstitute Orchestra, and knowing that Bo can heal the degrade, you can be sure he will soon be on the hunt for her again. So nothing happened that hadn't before.

 

I still like the idea of Tate and Bo going on their own - finding a small town somewhere and Bo trying to restrict her powers, going to school, and Tate hiding his identity, raising a special kid on his own and trying to make a decent living. It sounds like a mash of Smallville and Kick Ass 2 and if executed well, it should've been how season 1 went, before raising the stakes in future seasons. Anyway, it was ok while it lasted. This show goes to prove that even names like Cuaron and Abrams don't guarantee success.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Boundary

[FAU]

This show goes to prove that even names like Cuaron and Abrams don't guarantee success.

 

I think they were barely involved besides directing/writing an episode or two and sticking their names on the producers credit.

[shapeshifter]

Honestly, i'm wondering more what would've happened if the show had been renewed and they had to work with that finale.

I just noticed that the title of this season finale episode, "Second Chance," is almost like a plea to the network for another season. Kind of like: We promise we'll do better. Just give us a second chance with a season two.

[bros402]

I wonder if network's really think shows like Believe should be a show that should go on for seasons and seasons.  I honestly think it would have been better as a limited episode series or miniseries.  The show had great characters but an unsustainable plot.

 

I would've loved if NBC had made this a miniseries in the vein of The 4400 on NBC - which after positive reception as a miniseries, was turned into a pretty interesting series.

 

This could've made for a pretty good 4400-style miniseries.

 

Since The 4400 is pretty much the only show that has handled super powers decently.

[sjohnson]

I liked the finale well enough. The full blown advent of the spirits (we see Mom but not John, but he's still there) was suitably apocalyptic. The blue butterfly is Mom, which is why Tate has been gifted the privilege a couple of times. Skouras could not reasonably come back since he's under scrutiny. Winter will go whisper at other people and Channing will date. Tate and Bo will not win the lottery (Tate even babbles about doing it the hard way, i.e., losing.) But they will be in Mexico away from US police and FBI. They will live happily ever after because Bo will be giving all the orders. And Tate will never, ever get laid. All's well that ends funny!

 

PS Dani is indeed all over the map but since she's just there to get a second chance it hardly matters. But The Fugitive proved I thought that there could indeed be a long-running series with this premise. You just do the help stories and limit the chase stories to something manageable. Easily half the series, if not two thirds, was chase and that was altogether too much to handle already. If the chase had cut down to the pilot and finale it would have worked just fine I think. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by sjohnson

[FAU]

I liked the finale well enough. The full blown advent of the spirits (we see Mom but not John, but he's still there) was suitably apocalyptic. The blue butterfly is Mom, which is why Tate has been gifted the privilege a couple of times. Skouras could not reasonably come back since he's under scrutiny. Winter will go whisper at other people and Channing will date. Tate and Bo will not win the lottery (Tate even babbles about doing it the hard way, i.e., losing.) But they will be in Mexico away from US police and FBI. They will live happily ever after because Bo will be giving all the orders. And Tate will never, ever get laid. All's well that ends funny!

 

PS Dani is indeed all over the map but since she's just there to get a second chance it hardly matters. But The Fugitive proved I thought that there could indeed be a long-running series with this premise. You just do the help stories and limit the chase stories to something manageable. Easily half the series, if not two thirds, was chase and that was altogether too much to handle already. If the chase had cut down to the pilot and finale it would have worked just fine I think. 

 

The problem with a fugitive premise is that the writers have to keep making up reasons as to why the protagonist(s) keep escaping and as a long running series that can only take you so far unlike procedurals that have different cases and are much easier for casual viewers to get in/out without missing much but it provides new stories/sub plots for the characters.

[sjohnson]

In The Fugitive it worked rather nicely because Lt. Girard 1)didn't have a small army of violent men to hound Dr. Kimble with, nor much authority to shut highways and such (he was more of a Javert figure) and 2)although Kimble always made friends who helped him, he was ready to move on at a moment's notice. My memories are dim but I don't remember Girard trapping him the way Bo and Tate were routinely trapped. It's not the escaping I think but the escaping by a hair's breadth at the last possible second that gets hard to explain.

[blugirlami21]

I think the premise would have worked better if Tate wasn't a fugitive.  Or at least not a convicted murderer.  The feds are not going to be willing to just let a murderer go free with a slap on the wrist.  I would have been fine with the show being about Tate finding out he had a special daughter he knew nothing about and the struggle that comes from that.  Skouras trying to find Bo would have been conflict enough. 

 

It was conflict enough actually, I found the FBI subplot a nuisance more than anything else because I knew that Tate wasn't going to get captured.

Edited June 18, 2014 by blugirlami21

[ottoDbusdriver]

The feds are not going to be willing to just let a murderer go free with a slap on the wrist.

 

Despite the fact that Tate knows he didn't do crime, in the Feds eyes he was not just a murderer, he was a murderer on Death Row, less than 30 minutes from being executed when he was sprung by Milton Winter.  The feds would not slack off trying to find this guy.  Probably Ever.

[bros402]

I think the premise would have worked better if Tate wasn't a fugitive.  Or at least not a convicted murderer.  The feds are not going to be willing to just let a murderer go free with a slap on the wrist.  I would have been fine with the show being about Tate finding out he had a special daughter he knew nothing about and the struggle that comes from that.  Skouras trying to find Bo would have been conflict enough. 

 

It was conflict enough actually, I found the FBI subplot a nuisance more than anything else because I knew that Tate wasn't going to get captured.

 

If they wanted to have him be a criminal - perhaps have him be on probation after being imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit.

 

Or maybe having him just get out of the gang lifestyle (like was shown in the episode where they visited his father) at the start of the series and try to start anew, then he gets given this opportunity, while local cops or his former friends try to pin a crime to him or something like that.

[jhlipton]

This could have worked with the Route 66 model -- Tate and Bo going from place to place and helping someone at each stop, but no "on the run" nonsense to worry about.  Tate was starting to realize that if Bo said they had to do something, they would have to do it, which helped a lot.

 

The finale did end way too quickly.  Did Dani still have her powers?  Did she visit the friend in the Quickee-Mart?  What will Skouras do now?  What happened to his employee who was zombified in the previous episode?

 

This was a fun series, but had some major problems. 

[shapeshifter]

If they wanted to have him be a criminal - perhaps have him be on probation after being imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit.

Heck. Just have him guilty of 3 silly crimes in California. He would've had life. I doubt they'd spend too much money and time trying to find a small time pot dealer who shop lifted.

They will live happily ever after because Bo will be giving all the orders. And Tate will never, ever get laid.

Hah!!! Too true. :D

Another reason for it to have been a one-season series was the unknown quantity that all child actors are. Johnny Sequoia (Bo) was adorable and did great acting. But next year she could be going through an awkward phase, either physically, emotionally, or socially. And even if not, what if, like Claire Danes from My So Called Life, she decided to bale on the series?

True Detective and Fargo, while of a different genre, illustrate that one-season shows are hot with audiences. The second season of this show (if it had an audience to warrant a second season) could've maybe been a different kid with a different special power. Heroes had some characters appear for only a season or two.

[bros402]

Heck. Just have him guilty of 3 silly crimes in California. He would've had life. I doubt they'd spend too much money and time trying to find a small time pot dealer who shop lifted.

Hah!!! Too true. :D

Another reason for it to have been a one-season series was the unknown quantity that all child actors are. Johnny Sequoia (Bo) was adorable and did great acting. But next year she could be going through an awkward phase, either physically, emotionally, or socially. And even if not, what if, like Claire Danes from My So Called Life, she decided to bale on the series?

True Detective and Fargo, while of a different genre, illustrate that one-season shows are hot with audiences. The second season of this show (if it had an audience to warrant a second season) could've maybe been a different kid with a different special power. Heroes had some characters appear for only a season or two.

 

 

The original concept for Heroes was for it to follow a different group of people discovering their abilities every season - with a few characters, such as HRG, being the constant figure present in each season.

[Jordan27]

 

 

Since The 4400 is pretty much the only show that has handled super powers decently.

Buffy did.

Yeah, having your series where your characters are on the run aren't really sustainable as a long running series.

Nope, the Fugitive, Kung Fu and Heroes did a really good job.  I'm sure there are others.

I liked that we got a final ep, unlike so many shows that one gets invested in, they are just cancelled and we never know what happened and we just wasted 5-10 hours of our life with no conclusion.

 

I liked Believe for the two co-stars, but the plots were cliched and nothing that we haven't seen before. 

[bros402]

Buffy did.

 

Buffy's less super powers, more supernatural. There's a tiny distinction.

[Jordan27]

Both would be considered super powers or supernatural.  No distinction.

[radishcake]

I think you can agree to disagree at this point. :)

[ottoDbusdriver]

Apparently this aired on Canal+ in France.

 

Based on what occurs in the episode, it appears to take place between episodes 6 and 7.

 

Summary:  Tate and Bo stop in a town in upstate New York where a woman has been missing for 3 weeks, and they end up helping a local alcoholic cop (played by John Ventimiglia -- he was Artie Bucco in the Sopranos) who's been driving the investigation because he has seen visions about the crime (he has a minor version of Bo's powers).  Bo and Tate helped him find the missing woman and determine the real killer when Bo helps him with his powers to remember what happened.

 

New Bo powers:

-- she can control air -- she pulls air bubbles underwater into her noise and mouth so she doesn't drown (I'm not making this up).

-- she can remove the powers from other specials

 

Weird Things:

-- Milton has limited special powers (who knew ??)

-- there was a special at Orchestra that Skouras was grooming named Sean who just seemed to disappear after episode 6.  In this episode, Skouras shoots and kills Sean after he freaks out and kills a doctor with playing cards and then goes all Neo-like and stops numerous bullets from two security guards (except for Skouras' bullet).

 

Wasn't a great episode as the resolution to the case of the week seemed to come together too quickly.  Funny thing -- Tate and Bo were in the open with numerous local cops in this small town, cops who apparently were unaware of the Amber alert, or the BOLO from the FBI.

Edited July 9, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[FAU]

Apparently this aired on Canal+ in France.

 

Based on what occurs in the epsidoe, it appears to take place between episodes 6 and 7.

 

Summary:  Tate and Bo stop in a town in upstate New York where a woman has been missing for 3 weeks, and they end up helping a local alcoholic cop (played by John Ventimiglia -- he was Artie Bucco in the Sopranos) who's been driving the investigation because he has seen visions about the crime (he has a minor version of Bo's powers).  Bo and Tate helped him find the missing woman and determine the real killer when Bo helps him with his powers to remember what happened.

 

New Bo powers:

-- she can control air -- she pulls air bubbles underwater into her noise and mouth so she doesn't drown (I'm not making this up).

-- she can remove the powers from other specials

 

Weird Things:

-- Milton has limited special powers (who knew ??)

-- there was a special at Orchestra that Skouras was grooming named Sean who just seemed to disappear after episode 6.  In this episode, Skouras shoots and kills Sean after he freaks out and kills a doctor with playing cards and then goes all Neo-like and stops numerous bullets from two security guards (except for Skouras' bullet).

 

Wasn't a great episode as the resolution to the case of the week seemed to come together too quickly.  Funny thing -- Tate and Bo were in the open with numerous local cops in this small town, cops who apparently were unaware of the Amber alert, or the BOLO from the FBI.

 

I guess it explains what happens with Sean even though his character really wasn't needed considering Dani needed more build up, but I don't really see why NBC decided to drop this episode altogether.

 

The resolution was too abrupt and we barely know other characters so the reveal didn't really do anything.

Edited July 9, 2014 by FAU