S06.E19/S06.E20: The Last Gauntlet/Kara

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/12/2021 at 9:36 PM, legaleagle53 said:

What ending would that have been? Mon-El is still married to Saturn Girl in his own time period. And I never could see Kara just tossing everyone and everything she had ever known and loved aside to take up residence with him in 3021 even if there was a chance that she could break that marriage up. She would always feel that her overriding responsibility is to the people of her own time.

As for finally taking Cat's advice and ditching the "Kara Danvers" identity that had been holding her back, that makes sense, since she has finally realized that she can't fix everyone's problems for them, nor does she need to. The scene where she was about to change to Supergirl just to rescue a cat out of a tree and was surprised to see that she didn't need to because the authorities had already figured out a solution told her that she does need to let people figure out things for themselves -- it was the whole point of her "empowerment" speech that made  a lasting impression even 1,000 years later. That means that now, she only needs to step in  now and then to help when they've already done everything they can do to solve the problem themselves. But she still needs to be there to step in when needed, and she can't do that in 3021, nor could she ever have done that as freely and fully as Kara Danvers as she now can as just Kara Zor-El.

They could easily have written a Supergirl and Mon-El get a happy ending together if that was what they wanted. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head of how;

1. One of the  post-Crisis changes is that Mon-El and Saturn Girl never were married and so Mon-El is clear to date Kara

2. Mon-El and Saturn Girl get divorced and so Mon-El is free to date Kara

3. Time travel means a Mon-El from before the marriage finds his way to the 21st century and falls in love with Kara. 

They could even invent a way around Mon-El not being able to live on Earth in the 21st century if they wanted to. Again, Crisis, or he got immunized against lead and can now live on Earth, or he lives on Argo City or any number of places, or the heroes have cleaned up the Earth's atmosphere so that it is no longer contaminated with lead.

There are lots of problems with Cat's advice, or Kara's interpretation of it -- beyond the obvious things like outing as Kara putting pretty much everyone she has known or loved in increased danger and shows her to  be unethical. as a journalist First, Kara can accomplish the same amount of empowerment of the public without abandoning her secret identity. Nothing stops her from writing just as many hard-hitting journalistic pieces or self-help books or whatever while keeping her secret identity. Second, it is not as though Kara had really undergone much of a struggle knowing who she is or maintaining her secret identity. The show displayed basically one thing this season - Kara not being able to simultaneously interview the heads of Corto Maltese and Kasnia while fighting whatever Nyxly related nonsense that week. Other than that, the main downsides were that it created friction with Lena and Kara had to lie to Kat/Andrea about superheroing when she was supposed to be reporting. Then there is the notion that Kara is in no better a position to empower people to be their own heroes than Oprah or Joel Osteen or whatever if she's talking about being a generic motivational author. But with her actual powers, tech and connections, she could end or seriously curtail poverty, hunger, homelessness, most diseases. global warming, and so many other problems. Indeed, I would say that she has a moral obligation to step in the many, many situations where people could not possibly be empowered to be their own heroes, in the umpteen supervillain attacks, natural disasters, and so forth, and that those things are so common that she and the public would be better off if she concentrated on  something she's one of the rare people capable of helping out on that level rather than devoting at least half her waking hours being editor in chief of a national magazine, a job where there are lots of qualified people (and where she technically is not one of them). 

[BaggythePanther]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

They could easily have written a Supergirl and Mon-El get a happy ending together if that was what they wanted. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head of how;

Kara going to the future with Mon-El wouldn’t make sense. And if Mon-El were to come back to the 21sr century he’d be abandoning the Legion, a team that Kara inspired him to be a part of. Plus is Mon-El Kara’s happy ending anyway? He got married, she was sad, she moved on. She hasn’t mentioned him more than a couple of times in the past few years. Getting back with an ex she hasn’t spoken to in three years doesn’t sound like a happy ending, just a quick way to give her a love interest at the eleventh hour.

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Then there is the notion that Kara is in no better a position to empower people to be their own heroes than Oprah or Joel Osteen or whatever if she's talking about being a generic motivational author. But with her actual powers, tech and connections, she could end or seriously curtail poverty, hunger, homelessness, most diseases. global warming, and so many other problems. Indeed, I would say that she has a moral obligation to step in the many, many situations where people could not possibly be empowered to be their own heroes, in the umpteen supervillain attacks, natural disasters, and so forth, 

Part of Kara’s point about empowering people is that they would be empowered to take on the smaller stuff so she could deal with the bigger things like natural disasters. Like at the end of the episode she was going to help get the cat out of the tree, but the people figured out how to do it themselves.
 

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

the public would be better off if she concentrated on  something she's one of the rare people capable of helping out on that level rather than devoting at least half her waking hours being editor in chief of a national magazine, a job where there are lots of qualified people (and where she technically is not one of them). 

All the superheroes have jobs though. And Kara isn’t the only hero, and isn't even the only Kryptonian around. If something needs her attention she can be there. If you’re going to blame her for ongoing world hunger and natural disasters you can also blame J’onn or Clark or Barry for letting things go that they could stop. Why does Kara have to be the one who’s on alert 24/7?

[legaleagle53]

32 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

Kara going to the future with Mon-El wouldn’t make sense. And if Mon-El were to come back to the 21sr century he’d be abandoning the Legion, a team that Kara inspired him to be a part of. Plus is Mon-El Kara’s happy ending anyway? He got married, she was sad, she moved on. She hasn’t mentioned him more than a couple of times in the past few years. Getting back with an ex she hasn’t spoken to in three years doesn’t sound like a happy ending, just a quick way to give her a love interest at the eleventh hour.

Part of Kara’s point about empowering people is that they would be empowered to take on the smaller stuff so she could deal with the bigger things like natural disasters. Like at the end of the episode she was going to help get the cat out of the tree, but the people figured out how to do it themselves.
 

All the superheroes have jobs though. And Kara isn’t the only hero, and isn't even the only Kryptonian around. If something needs her attention she can be there. If you’re going to blame her for ongoing world hunger and natural disasters you can also blame J’onn or Clark or Barry for letting things go that they could stop. Why does Kara have to be the one who’s on alert 24/7?

That's why Lena had to remind Kara that while Kara may possess godlike powers, she's not God and doesn't have the right to rob people of their their right to self-determination, nor does she have the responsibility nor even the capability of fixing everyone's problems for them.As she told Kara, "You can't save everyone." And remember, Kara herself said a few episodes ago that Kryptonian ethics forbid her from interfering in human history. Look at what almost happened when Zor-El disregarded that ethical standard and tried to solve climate change all by himself, to say nothing of what happened in this episode when Kara decided that the people of Earth could live without the sun at full power for a few months "for their own good." Both she and Clark realize that they walk a very thin line considering the scope of their powers and how easy it would be to cross over to the dark side if they ever let their emotions get the better of them. So Kara has now come to accept that this constant balancing act is one that she will have to perform for the rest of her life. And now, she can devote herself 24/7 to that balancing act without having the added complication of having to maintain a second life on top of it.

[cambridgeguy]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:13 PM, rtms77 said:

That really tells you the writers just didn’t care about reality or even follow their own show canon. Kara has been missing in action from Catco for the last two seasons, doing only the most sporadic reporting/stories. She is has no where near editor in chief experience. But all the writers wanted a happy neat ending.

That experience is optional in the Arrowverse.  Iris has set up a thriving newspaper over in Central City without needing to hire an actual staff, and she doesn't have the benefit of speed reading/typing. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:21 AM, BaggythePanther said:

Kara going to the future with Mon-El wouldn’t make sense. And if Mon-El were to come back to the 21sr century he’d be abandoning the Legion, a team that Kara inspired him to be a part of. Plus is Mon-El Kara’s happy ending anyway? He got married, she was sad, she moved on. She hasn’t mentioned him more than a couple of times in the past few years. Getting back with an ex she hasn’t spoken to in three years doesn’t sound like a happy ending, just a quick way to give her a love interest at the eleventh hour.

Part of Kara’s point about empowering people is that they would be empowered to take on the smaller stuff so she could deal with the bigger things like natural disasters. Like at the end of the episode she was going to help get the cat out of the tree, but the people figured out how to do it themselves.
 

All the superheroes have jobs though. And Kara isn’t the only hero, and isn't even the only Kryptonian around. If something needs her attention she can be there. If you’re going to blame her for ongoing world hunger and natural disasters you can also blame J’onn or Clark or Barry for letting things go that they could stop. Why does Kara have to be the one who’s on alert 24/7?

Explain how it would not "make sense" for Kara to go to the future if she still loved Mon-El, was free to be with him and could literally travel back and forth from his time to now whenever she wanted. 

I agree that there's no more reason to think that Mon-El is Kara's happy ending any more than her reversing herself and deciding that Jimmy really was the one for her, or any number of alternatives. But Kara making an abrupt decision that wasn't really hinted at before would be basically on brand for her/these writers. 

The thing about Kara is that she doesn't really need to have a job generally, or at least, the particular job of reporter (and now editor in chief) to earn income. She could squeeze coal into diamonds, perform any number of tasks using her super-powers for income, even be a professional actor/celebrity, Yes, everything I'm saying applies to Clark, Barry, J'onn and presumably others who have insane power levels.

The issue comes from Kara's position of wanting to make a difference in all these social justice ways. It's a fair position to say, "My job as a hero is limited to saving people from supervillains, crime and physical danger, and I'm going to stay out of the political arena." But once you start to say, "I am going to intervene in such issues as how redevelopment in my city goes forward, whether ex-cons are getting a fair shake, whether this local hospital has enough resources or is doing a good enough job looking after its patients, whether this nation or that should have nuclear weapons," that raises questions as to why those issues versus others, how the intervention should go forward, etc. etc. 

As far as I have seen, none of the other superheroes have made a particular claim at being concerned about the environment, poverty and the rest of those type of causes. When you announce that you want to make it your mission to help the people of the world empower themselves and you have the ability to give them the tools to do that if not do it for them, it raises questions IMO as to why you don't actually do that.

On 11/14/2021 at 12:03 PM, legaleagle53 said:

That's why Lena had to remind Kara that while Kara may possess godlike powers, she's not God and doesn't have the right to rob people of their their right to self-determination, nor does she have the responsibility nor even the capability of fixing everyone's problems for them.As she told Kara, "You can't save everyone." And remember, Kara herself said a few episodes ago that Kryptonian ethics forbid her from interfering in human history. Look at what almost happened when Zor-El disregarded that ethical standard and tried to solve climate change all by himself, to say nothing of what happened in this episode when Kara decided that the people of Earth could live without the sun at full power for a few months "for their own good." Both she and Clark realize that they walk a very thin line considering the scope of their powers and how easy it would be to cross over to the dark side if they ever let their emotions get the better of them. So Kara has now come to accept that this constant balancing act is one that she will have to perform for the rest of her life. And now, she can devote herself 24/7 to that balancing act without having the added complication of having to maintain a second life on top of it.

The notion that Kara's ethics forbid her from interfering in human history is a nice call back to Superman: The Movie, but it is undercut by plenty of actions she has taken since the series began. If she can without ethical considerations suck enough solar energy to possibly require the sun to need six months to recover (which she started to do despite the obvious inherent consequences, Lena's warning, and any innate ethical considerations) and broadcast a message to the mind of every being on the planet, I don't see how one can argue that she cannot provide, say, enough wealth/food so that people no longer face starvation. 

On 11/14/2021 at 3:17 PM, cambridgeguy said:

That experience is optional in the Arrowverse.  Iris has set up a thriving newspaper over in Central City without needing to hire an actual staff, and she doesn't have the benefit of speed reading/typing. 

The Citizen, though, is basically a three-person blog. Easily within the capacity of Iris to maintain and grow while maintaining her Team Flash duties. 

Catco Worldwide is, judging from the size of the National City building, a place that employs at a minimum a hundred editorial employees. And unfortunately, Kara's powers aren't going to speed up making day-to-day decisions for normal humans. Being an editor in chief is at least an 8-hour-a-day job in quiet times, but on busy news days, I would imagine that it would be something requiring 12-16 hour days. And of course some of those emergencies would be jobs for Supergirl, while others would just be things like coordinating coverage of election nights or whatever.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[marketdoctor]

The only comment I'll add is that Melissa Benoist and Jeremy Jordan sang the wedding song really well.

I enjoyed it immensely; thanks for giving it an ending.

[MarkHB]

It still bugs me that, even after Melissa came off of maternity leave, so much of the story just... wasn't about Kara.  Since the finale, I've watched some clips from S1 and the joy Melissa had was palpable; that was all gone by the end. I really hope she's happier now that it's over, even if Superman & Lois barely makes sense at times.