The Story Of Late Night

[catlover79]

Has anyone else been watching this limited series about the rise of late night TV?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2021/04/the-story-of-late-night-steve-allen-desus-mero-cnn-docuseries-johnny-carson-1234747734/amp/

[Annber03]

I saw the first episode last night, yeah :). It was fun to get a glimpse into the really early days of late night TV, and how it developed some of the elements that we became familiar with over time. I also liked how wild and out there some of the earliest shows were-that's one thing I always find so fascinating about any TV shows from the late 1940s and early 1950s. It really was a, "Throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" world :D. It's just so fun to see how experimental people were willing to be with this new medium. 

And we actually had a woman hosting a talk show at one time! Briefly, but still! Shame that part of the early TV history doesn't get more attention. I liked her reaction to the letter from the person who said she should stick to typically feminine topics and stay out of politics. 

The story of Jack Parr up and leaving his show midway through was wild, too. And it's so weird to see a super young Johnny Carson, with his dark hair :p. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Annber03

[catlover79]

I actually found Episode 3 ("Eyes on the Throne") On Demand. It covers the rise of Letterman and Leno, the fall of Rivers and the meteoric but brief run of Arsenio. I just found it fascinating. 

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

"Throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" world :D. It's just so fun to see how experimental people were willing to be with this new medium.

Some of them actually - literally - threw stuff at the wall to see if it stuck. 😉🤣😂

[Annber03]

24 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Some of them actually - literally - threw stuff at the wall to see if it stuck. 😉🤣😂

That thing with the drawings and the lamp turning on was cool :D. 

[catlover79]

What's also great is that prolific writer Bill Carter (author of The Late Shift and The War For Late Night) is one of the executive producers of the series. He's also one of the interviewees.

Edited May 4, 2021 by catlover79

[Annber03]

Yeah, it was good to see him interviewed. I'm sure he'll have quite a bit to say when they get into the Letterman/Leno and Conan/Leno debacles.

I read The War for Late Night. I really liked it, it was absolutely fascinating. I should check out The Late Shift-I was just a kid when the Letterman/Leno stuff went down back in the day, so I totally missed out on that. I've heard the general story since then, of course, and they recapped it some in Late Night, but it'd be interesting to read the book and delve more into that whole story. 

[catlover79]

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I should check out The Late Shift-I was just a kid when the Letterman/Leno stuff went down back in the day, so I totally missed out on that. I've heard the general story since then, of course, and they recapped it some in Late Night, but it'd be interesting to read the book and delve more into that whole story. 

Yes, definitely check it out!! I was a tween when Carson retired and the "late night wars" began. I remember hearing about it in general, but not the particulars. I became addicted to Leno in early 1996 and stuck with him until the end - twice (2009 and 2014)! That's high school, college and beyond!! 

It was such fun to see a taping of Leno's Tonight Show in summer 1998 when my family vacationed on the West Coast. One thing that still strikes me funny is how tiny the sets look in person as opposed to TV. They look like miniatures of the sets!! I now have the plastic coffee mugs with The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and the peacock logo that we had originally purchased for my grandparents in the NBC gift shop. Great times!! 

[Annber03]

Oh, wow, that's cool that you got to go to a taping! Neat souvenirs, too :). I've heard that about people who go to see stuff being filmed, how different it all looks from when you see it on TV. It is weird to imagine those studios being so small, yeah :p. 

My parents were Letterman viewers, but I do remember us watching Leno from time to time, mainly for the "Headline" and "Jaywalking"* bits, or if a guest we liked was on. I myself didn't really properly follow any late night host for the longest time-I'd just see whatever my parents watched (when I wasn't in bed because it was a school night, that is :p). Then I started watching "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report", along with Craig Ferguson's show, and those became "my" late night hosts of choice, so to speak. 

*Speaking of "Jaywalking"...so according to the girl from the clip they showed last night, Louis Armstrong walked on the moon, eh? All right, then :p. 

[catlover79]

Jaywalking was always good for some laughs. I think my favorite one was Jay asking one woman who lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...crickets. She did however know the answer to his next question, which was "who lives in a pineapple under the sea?" 😝

The bit that got me hooked was Headlines, for sure. Jay even released several Headlines compilation books, with the proceeds going to charity. 

I started watching Jay post-Helen Kushnick. That woman sounded like an absolute terror, from all I've read and heard about her. They touched on her briefly in Episode 3 (which covers 1980 to 1991), and I'm sure much more will be said about her in Episode 4. Dave Berg, one of Jay's producers, wrote a book a few years back and said something to the effect that everyone walked on eggshells whenever she was around. Once she was finally fired, people started to relax more. 

By the way, here's an image of Dave Berg's book. It's an excellent read and goes in depth about the process of booking guests, producing skits, etc. 

 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

Jaywalking was always good for some laughs. I think my favorite one was Jay asking one woman who lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...crickets. She did however know the answer to his next question, which was "who lives in a pineapple under the sea?" 😝

 

...

*Facepalm* Oh, dear. 

Quote

I started watching Jay post-Helen Kushnick. That woman sounded like an absolute terror, from all I've read and heard about her. They touched on her briefly in Episode 3 (which covers 1980 to 1991), and I'm sure much more will be said about her in Episode 4. Dave Berg, one of Jay's producers, wrote a book a few years back and said something to the effect that everyone walked on eggshells whenever she was around. Once she was finally fired, people started to relax more. 

Okay, now I'll have to read up on her a bit, yeah :p. Look forward to learning more about her as the series goes on here, too. That book does sound interesting...something to look at should I come across it, then :). 

[catlover79]

I didn't realize (or maybe I forgot) that this series was largely made pre-pandemic:

https://www.everythingzoomer.com/arts-entertainment/2021/05/01/the-story-of-late-night-new-cnn-series-history-evolution-talk-show/

[Annber03]

Next time people complain about how late night shows "never used to be political" or whatever, I think they should see those clips of MLK Jr. and Harry Belafonte on Carson, or Dick Cavett doing his show from the Watergate hearings. They may not have expressed their politics in quite the same way that a lot of late night hosts do today, but the fact remains they did it, and they knew by doing that they could lose some of their audience in the process (and in the case of Carson, as noted, having MLK and Belafonte on did cost him some of his audience). 

But yeah, seeing those clips was really cool and fascinating. I liked the one of Carson addressing Robert Kennedy's assassination, too, that looked like a pretty moving episode right there. 

It's also wild to think that Helen Reddy guest-hosted Carson's show. And to think that there was a late night show in the '70s that had a host who was black and openly gay. It's neat to see these shows that helped pave the way for some of the late night hosts we have now that aren't white men. 

Loved hearing all the comedians talking about the importance of doing Carson's show. I got a good laugh out of that "Twinkies/joint" joke XD. 

And now we get to the Letterman years. I like that the first go-round in the so-called "late night wars" didn't turn into some big nasty back and forth between Carson and Griffin and Bishop, that they seemed to generally be supportive of what the others were doing (not to say they weren't competitive, mind, I'm sure they were to some degree, but if there was any of that going on, it didn't bleed out onto the shows themselves). Shame the other late night battles couldn't be as civil. 

I'm really liking this series, it's so interesting. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Annber03

[ebk57]

I learned so much about Carson that I didn't know.  And I'm old!  For some reason, I was under the impression he was more conservative, but then I guess it wouldn't make sense that Dave would have revered him so.  I'm quite happy to find out I was mistaken.  

And I really want to watch Soul!  I'd say I can't believe I missed it back in the day, but I was a young teen and not at all interested in that sort of stuff.  But now - I want to watch!! 

Also interesting to me about the origins of SNL.  I'm not sure I knew all the behind-the-scenes machinations there. 

I'm really liking this series so far.  And looking forward to next week and Dave!! 

[catlover79]

Actually, Episode 3 is already available On Demand. At least it is via DirecTV, which is what I have. 

My grandmother was a huge Carson fan - and even owned a couple of his comedy albums. When he retired, my grandparents just kept watching Jay until they passed on. 

The writers and researchers really did their homework on this miniseries. I am recording it all and plan to do a big binge watch once it all airs.

[catlover79]

@ebk57, there are a couple of Soul! episodes up on YouTube as well as a Mr. Soul documentary about its late host (it was produced by his niece) on the PBS website. It was definitely an ambitious undertaking, especially since it aired on public television.

[ebk57]

7 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

@ebk57, there are a couple of Soul! episodes up on YouTube as well as a Mr. Soul documentary about its late host (it was produced by his niece) on the PBS website. It was definitely an ambitious undertaking, especially since it aired on public television.

Thanks.  I'll look that up!

[catlover79]

On 5/9/2021 at 10:59 PM, Annber03 said:

Loved hearing all the comedians talking about the importance of doing Carson's show. I got a good laugh out of that "Twinkies/joint" joke XD. 

That was Byron Allen, who was barely out of his teens when he made his first Carson appearance. Not long afterwards, he became a regular on another NBC show - Real People.

[catlover79]

@Annber03 and @ebk57, here's the movie based on the book by this series' co-executive producer, Bill Carter:

 

[Annber03]

Oh, wow, thanks! Something to sit down and watch at some point soon here, then :). 

[catlover79]

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, wow, thanks! Something to sit down and watch at some point soon here, then :). 

Sure thing! It's just odd to see "Letterman" here and try to comprehend that he's the same guy who now hosts America Says on GSN. 😳😉😂

[ebk57]

52 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

@Annber03 and @ebk57, here's the movie based on the book by this series' co-executive producer, Bill Carter:

 

Thanks for this.  I did see this when it came out.  As I recall, it wasn't all that good... I also have the book.  I haven't opened it yet, but really, I've only had it for about 15 years now, so give me a little more time... 😄

[catlover79]

No pressure!! Best I can figure is Episode 4 will be about the Letterman/Leno feud, Episode 5 will be about the Leno/O'Brien feud and Episode 6 will deal with COVID-19 and Late Night going remote.

[DXD526]

This series is really well done. I'd always heard how Steve Allen was really the father of late night TV, but seeing clips of his show is still pretty shocking. Talk about ahead of his time. Pretty much everything Letterman did in the 80s, Steve Allen did in the 50s. 

I loved The Late Shift when it came out. Must have watched it 10 times. Haven't seen it in many years now. It would be interesting to watch it again after all this time, see if it holds up. 

[Sarah 103]

16 hours ago, catlover79 said:

No pressure!! Best I can figure is Episode 4 will be about the Letterman/Leno feud, Episode 5 will be about the Leno/O'Brien feud and Episode 6 will deal with COVID-19 and Late Night going remote.

Here is a link to the imdb episode list. It has a synopsis of what each episode will cover. 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11612380/episodes?ref_=tt_ov_epl

I have been enjoying the series so far. CNN does excellent documentaries.  

[catlover79]

57 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I have been enjoying the series so far. CNN does excellent documentaries.  

Yes, they do. Thanks for the link!! 😊

[catlover79]

I really felt for Joan Rivers. My suspicion is Johnny's grudge against her had more to do with sexism than anything else. If a male guest host had gotten the Fox offer and taken it (especially upon learning he wasn’t even on the list of possible Carson successors), I have a feeling it wouldn't have been a big deal. As her daughter Melissa said, Joan definitely opened the door for the likes of Samantha Bee, Chelsea Handler and Amber Ruffin. It was great that Jimmy Fallon brought Joan back to The Tonight Show - especially since less than six months later, she was gone.

[ebk57]

David Letterman is a genius.  Well, maybe not, but he's damn funny.  I don't think I knew (or maybe I'd forgotten) that it seems that Jay owes his success to Dave.  And honestly, Jay was a really funny guy.  Until he wasn't. 

[Annber03]

54 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

I really felt for Joan Rivers. My suspicion is Johnny's grudge against her had more to do with sexism than anything else. If a male guest host had gotten the Fox offer and taken it (especially upon learning he wasn’t even on the list of possible Carson successors), I have a feeling it wouldn't have been a big deal. 

I was wondering about that, too. They did talk in one of the earlier episodes about how they didn't have women on to do stand up comedy until a woman guest hosted the show, so I can see that carrying over here-like, a woman's good enough to guest host, but not do it full time. Either that, or maybe Carson felt her talents were better served elsewhere other than hosting a late night show? I dunno. 

But ugh. Yeah. What a mess. And the fact she wasn't allowed back on NBC for so long after that was ridiculous, too. Good on Fallon for giving her a chance to return one last time. 

And speaking of messes, good lord, the whole Letterman and Leno debacle. How utterly ironic that Leno was almost a non-entity in the comedy world after a time, and of all the people who pulls him back and helps save his career, it has to be Letterman. Had Leno just gone back to doing the little clubs and staying there, the late night landscape would've likely looked very, very different. It's wild to think about. 

But god, I had to laugh at the screenshots of all the headlines of NBC insisting that no, Leno was not replacing Carson, no, they hadn't picked a definitive replacement yet, blah, blah, blah...only to finally be like, "...okay, yeah, so he is taking over the show." I don't blame Letterman for being ticked, they did him dirty on that deal. I love Carson asking him point blank at the end, "Just how pissed off are you?" 

I also loved Letterman having some fun with the GE corporate sponsors :D. I cracked up at his comment about Littlefield: "Does that photo look like every police sketch you've ever seen, or....?" XD. Yeah. I totally get him not wanting to play nice with corporate and having to see his show watered down because of it. That was one upside to him leaving NBC, at least. 

My mom also found it weird that NBC wanted to try and compete with Arsenio and decided the best way to do that was to pick...Leno. A safe guy who wouldn't rock the boat. Mmkay. I do remember seeing Arsenio's show on occasion, but I was very, very young at the time, so I can't recall any specific moments. I've only seen the infamous Clinton clip in retrospectives like this, for instance. 

Honestly, though, if there's one big takeaway from all this late night mess, it's a tale of super fragile egos more than anything else. Men not wanting to be replaced, comedians worrying about whether or not they're funny enough and feeling jealous of others who are or who are more successful... It's amazing what deep insecurity can do, for better and worse. 

[catlover79]

Not to mention that the NBC brass apparently learned nothing from the Jay/Dave mess years later with Conan. That's why I could never really blame Jay. But then, I'm getting ahead of myself.

I was only a toddler when Letterman's Late Night show premiered. I obviously wasn't part of his demographic back then, but I wonder if I would have been into his show (and humor in general) if I had been older when it was first on. The "Just Bulbs/Just Shades" bit was funny. (I looked it up, and apparently both stores are still going in NYC!!)

It was great that it was a woman's contributions that largely made the man's show what it was, and after she left it suffered a bit creatively. Kudos also to Merrill Markoe for breaking the glass ceiling for women behind the scenes. (You'll read in Bill Carter's The Late Shift that after Markoe left the show to salvage her personal relationship with Letterman, he'd already been cheating on her with the woman who is now his wife.)

All these years later, "Carsenio" never fails to crack me up. Dana Carvey and the late, great Phil Hartman were perfect as Carsenio and Ed. I wasn't surprised to learn that Carson wasn't happy about that sketch! 😂

[Annber03]

44 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Not to mention that the NBC brass apparently learned nothing from the Jay/Dave mess years later with Conan. 

They really didn't, no. Which is mind-boggling on so many levels. But like you said, we can discuss that further down the line. 

Quote

I was only a toddler when Letterman's Late Night show premiered. I obviously wasn't part of his demographic back then, but I wonder if I would have been into his show (and humor in general) if I had been older when it was first on. The "Just Bulbs/Just Shades" bit was funny. (I looked it up, and apparently both stores are still going in NYC!!)

Yeah, I definitely think age may have played a role for some viewers to some degree, for sure. That, and everyone's comedic tastes are different, obviously, so that's always going to be a factor as well. Comedy is not an easy thing to do, it's hard sometimes to know what will and won't work with certain audiences. 

(That's cool to hear those stores are still going! Good for them :).)

Looking at those clips, it's no wonder my parents were Letterman viewers-his show fit well with the kind of comedy they tended to like in general. And I share their sense of humor, so I enjoyed those clips as well, despite the fact they were from shows that were on either before I was born or when I was really young. I can definitely see the similarities between Letterman's work and Carson's early, more wacky years on his show. The influence is very clear. 

[catlover79]

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

They really didn't, no. Which is mind-boggling on so many levels. But like you said, we can discuss that further down the line. 

Yeah, I definitely think age may have played a role for some viewers to some degree, for sure. That, and everyone's comedic tastes are different, obviously, so that's always going to be a factor as well. Comedy is not an easy thing to do, it's hard sometimes to know what will and won't work with certain audiences. 

(That's cool to hear those stores are still going! Good for them :).

In fact, Just Shades has linked the YouTube video of Dave's classic sketch on their website!! 😂

https://justlampshades.com/pages/the-brand

Here's the link for Just Bulbs:

http://www.justbulbs.net/

As far as I can tell, the only thing that's changed about the stores are their locations. They are both still in NYC, but they moved from the spots they were at when Dave visited them.

It's interesting how attitude boiled down to who got Johnny's job. Jay was the one who visited affiliates, was considered the team player at NBC and was very amiable while Dave was seen as rude to the higher ups at the network. 

They touched on Helen Kushnick in Episode 3, and it will be interesting to see how much more detail they go into her in Episode 4. According to people interviewed in The Late Shift - she wasn't just hostile. She was a downright terror. It was implied that she might have had a mental disorder (to me, it sounded like she may have been bipolar). 

[Annber03]

26 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

In fact, Just Shades has linked the YouTube video of Dave's classic sketch on their website!! 😂

https://justlampshades.com/pages/the-brand

Here's the link for Just Bulbs:

http://www.justbulbs.net/

As far as I can tell, the only thing that's changed about the stores are their locations. They are both still in NYC, but they moved from the spots they were at when Dave visited them.

Oh, that's great :D. Thanks for the links!

Quote

It's interesting how attitude boiled down to who got Johnny's job. Jay was the one who visited affiliates, was considered the team player at NBC and was very amiable while Dave was seen as rude to the higher ups at the network. 

Mmhm. And I mean, as this episode indicated, Letterman did have a prickly personality. Even he himself acknowledges that. So I can see that being off-putting to some, for sure.

But yeah, I also have no doubt that they found him "rude" in part because he wasn't willing to play the corporate games and kiss people's asses. And frankly, given how badly the higher ups at NBC seem to bungle so many of their decisions about, well, anything, why should he show them respect? Yes, in this business there's always going to be some level of glad-handing and sucking up and all that sort of thing, it comes with the territory, unfortunately, and sometimes in order to get what you want you have to play that game. 

But it's also a hell of a lot easier to play that game when you can have at least some level of respect for the people you're working for, even if only on a strictly professional level, and vice versa. if that respect's not there, and if the people running the place don't seem to know what the hell they're doing, let alone care, then no, of course their employees aren't going to be loyal or respect them. 

That, and there's also the fact that some people are just naturally better at knowing how to play those games and do the corporate thing than others. This is one reason of many why I would never make it in this business, I do not have that kind of business savvy and I do not know how to schmooze in that world :p. 

[catlover79]

It seems that the audience loved the same qualities about Dave that the suits hated. Actually, I read that Dave was really shy, almost painfully so, when not in front of an audience and also very insecure. Many shy people are mistaken for being rude, stuck up, etc., so I'm not surprised that Dave would be among them.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Actually, I read that Dave was really shy, almost painfully so, when not in front of an audience and also very insecure. Many shy people are mistaken for being rude, stuck up, etc., so I'm not surprised that Dave would be among them.

Excellent point. I'm a quiet, shy person and I've definitely gotten the "stuck up" thing from people in the past as well. 

It is interesting how people like him, who do have that kind of personality, get into hosting TV shows and other similar types of work, though. Maybe it's the controlled environment? They find it easier to talk to one person at a time during an interview, instead of an entire group of people or something? 

[catlover79]

I really don't know. I guess it's like actors who lose themselves in a role.

What I found interesting was the clip of Dave telling Oprah in 2013 that Jay was still the funniest guy he'd ever known. It's a shame that their friendship seemed irrevocably broken after 1993...as did Jay's and Conan's after 2010. Still, I place more of the onus on the suits at NBC. 

[opus]

Halfway through, really good so far. But this week might be a bit sad because I always find it depressing to watch Jay overtake Dave in the ratings.

[catlover79]

Last night's episode featured lots of neat clips, like Conan's audition and some of Jay's from his first year. The latter especially because Jay had it put in writing that all the episodes with Helen Kushnick at the helm would be kept out of syndication. She was the EP his first year before she was fired and Debbie Vickers took over (and would remain Jay's EP right to the end in 2014). 

I was a bit disappointed that they didn't go more into the Kushnick Reign of Terror, but if you read Bill Carter's books the whole story is there. On a happier note, it was so great to see Kevin Eubanks being interviewed. Branford Marsalis leaving and Kev being promoted to bandleader in 1995 was one of the factors of the show turning around and going to #1. Jay had the chemistry with Kevin that was lacking with Marsalis. 

It was also great seeing the infancy of Conan's reign in the 12:30 slot, and what he and Andy Richter had to say about the horrible reviews they got in those early days. Imagine if he had gotten the ax back then. We wouldn't have had If They Mated, In the Year 2000, Celebrity Seeeee-crets and so much more. This episode was set up nicely to what will be dealt with in the next episode - Jay vs. Conan.

[Annber03]

So...let me get this straight. Despite going all out with their decision to choose Leno over Letterman, NBC still had Letterman under contract, and were desperately scrambling to find a way to keep him on the network...and their brilliant plan was, "Hey, we'll let you have the Tonight Show after Leno's first year contract wraps up!"? 

Carson was right to tell Letterman to walk from that, 'cause what the fuck even is with that shitty offer? Letterman's still their second choice, which they really failed to understand was not what he wanted to be, and they're totally shafting Leno in the process, too. Y'know, the guy they just bent over backwards to give such a cushy gig to. And part of the reason they were so willing to dump Leno was because they panicked about the early reviews, when, apparently, it seems ANY late night host who comes in has a period of rough reviews when they first start out. 

Like, seriously, does anyone running that network have a working brain between them? It just stuns me that there are people in charge who can bungle things up so badly like this. Gee, yeah, it's a total mystery why Letterman walked from NBC. Jesus. 

Loved the whole thing with Bill Murray running in, all out of breath, on Letterman's first show on CBS, though. "I came over from the other place." LMAO XD. And then spray painting Dave's name on the desk. That's great. And it's interesting that Letterman did come back to NBC...to essentially give Conan's show his blessing. I can definitely see the influence Letterman had on him, so yeah, very fitting for him to show up on there. I definitely remember people in my age group being huge Conan fans back in the day, yeah. I didn't get a chance to see his show all that often, but I did enjoy what I had seen. 

It's so weird to think that Jon Stewart might've gotten the 11:30 time slot that Kilborn wound up taking. Had that happened, we never would've had his version of "The Daily Show"...which, ironically, he took over from Kilborn. So fun to see those early "Daily Show" clips, and awwwww at the Jon and Stephen banter :D. Even back then, they had that automatic spark together. I loved the story behind the creation of "The Daily Show", too. 

(Bot oh, those flashbacks to the 2000 election. I did love Stephen's, "I got a call from my wife. My little girl took her first steps...and I missed them." bit, though :D.)

And speaking of politics, while I can understand people being upset with Maher's 9/11 comments given the timing of them...um, ABC, if you don't want your late night hosts to get political, then...why air a show whose actual title is, "Politically incorrect"? 

Loved the clips of Letterman, Stewart, et al addressing 9/11, though. And I remember watching that segment with Letterman honoring the doctors and nurses who'd done his surgery, too. That was indeed a really lovely moment. 

And so we're about to step into Late Night Wars 2: Electric Boogaloo. In which NBC continues to learn absolutely nothing. 

[cpcathy]

I think we could have had a show just about the Leno-Letterman-Conan era, it’s really interesting. I’m team Conan all the way. Leno was such a hack, I can’t believe anyone ever found him funny. Letterman was never right for Tonight, no matter how much he wanted it.

[Sarah 103]

The Daily Show is very much a response to 24 hour cable news and that isn't really thought of something I thought of before this documentary. Without CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News there is no reason for The Daily Show to exist. I'm thoroughly enjoying this documentary series. While the main focus is on network, I like that they are not totally ignoring what is happening in cable. 

[catlover79]

3 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I can’t believe anyone ever found him funny.

*small voice* I did! But, I liked Conan too and feel he was set up to fail by the NBC suits. 

[opus]

Still "hate" Hugh Grant 😠

[catlover79]

18 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

While the main focus is on network, I like that they are not totally ignoring what is happening in cable. 

Yes, and Netflix, Peacock, etc., as well.

Edited May 25, 2021 by catlover79

[anna0852]

I'm watching and loving! These CNN docu-series have all been top notch.

[catlover79]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:46 PM, Annber03 said:

Letterman's still their second choice, which they really failed to understand was not what he wanted to be, and they're totally shafting Leno in the process, too. Y'know, the guy they just bent over backwards to give such a cushy gig to. And part of the reason they were so willing to dump Leno was because they panicked about the early reviews, when, apparently, it seems ANY late night host who comes in has a period of rough reviews when they first start out.  

Yes, especially after 30 years of Johnny Carson. Who WASN'T going to find being the guy to replace him tough going???

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Yes, especially after 30 years of Johnny Carson. Who WASN'T going to find being the guy to replace him tough going???

Exactly. Those were big shoes to fill no matter what. 

I can also see Letterman walking in part because of how NBC responded to Carson's preferences for who he thought would be the best late night host. If NBC didn't want or were going to just ignore Carson's input, why even ask his opinion in the first place? I can see where Letterman would've found NBC's response pretty disrespectful to the guy who'd been with their network for 30 years and who'd helped make it as successful as it was. 

[catlover79]

Jay even moved from Johnny's studio to a smaller studio in the NBC Burbank complex with the extended platform on the stage to make it more like a comedy club; to be physically closer to the audience. It was a wise move to do so and that was when Jay started to feel his sea legs again. He and his staff were aware early on of what worked and what didn't, and were smart enough to make changes.

[Sarah 103]

6 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I'm watching and loving! These CNN docu-series have all been top notch.

The docu-series are fantastic overall. I have watched almost all of the docu-series, and out of all the series so far, there have only been 2 episodes ("British Invasion" from The 1960s and "Television" from The 2000s) that I had a negative opinion of, and overall I liked the series, I just thought those two episodes were weak for one reason or another. CNN has a fantastic track record with the docu-series. I am looking forward to mini-series on Sitcoms, the second season of The History of Comedy (if we get one) and the one on Detriot. 

[catlover79]

If ever a plan was doomed to fail, it was putting Jay on at 10. Even I, a longtime Leno fan, could not sit through that primetime show. I still felt bad for Conan, who stood to lose the most.

On a lighter note, I was not expecting Triumph the Insult Comic Dog to be interviewed. There he was, cigar and all. 😉🤣😂

[ebk57]

I finally caught up.  Firstly (sorry @catlover79), I just don't like Jay Leno.  I find him untalented, unfunny (which is too bad, because he used to be funny, way back before he stole The Tonight Show) and really grating.  I also can't watch Fallon, so The Tonight Show has not been on my TV since Carson left.  I think NBC totally screwed Conan and I'd have no use for them if they hadn't given Late Night to Seth.  Love Seth. I hope he's featured more coming up, along with Craig Ferguson who I think was brilliant.  Or is brilliant - it's just that I don't know what he's been up to since he left his Sirius show. 

I think I heard them say that Bill Maher was on Comedy Central when he was first mentioned and I was frantically googling that to make sure I remembered it was ABC.  Later, when they talked about his being fired, they did say ABC, but I thought the first error was pretty bad.  I liked Bill back then, and for many years into Real Time, but had to stop watching a few years ago. He's just bad now. 

I remember Dave and 9/11.  And Dave and the heart attack.  And Dave and the blackmail scheme.  And Dave and Harry's birth.  Have I mentioned I love Dave? 😄

I also find it amazing how much better Kimmel is now than when he started.  I prefer to forget his previous persona and go with his present one. 

Sorry about the long post.  I'm just really enjoying this series.